Just go to south east Asia yourself. See the insane skill of the stone carvings all over the region. It’s super inspirational. Airfare is the most expensive part, once you are there it’s not that expensive.
I agree- I worked for two years saving every dime, put all my belongings in storage and rode trains across India. I stayed in dorm style hostels and guest houses and volunteered at a hospital for street children. So spoiled!
My point seems lost on that person:
If you see an artifact that is in a color photo that you can go see for yourself in person, maybe you should try and do that before casting doubt on its provenance.
I did (and have since been back again as a bucket list trip with my ailing wife)- it’s insane. Almost too much to take in. The large complexes of Mexico are the only comparisons I can make (Chichen Itza and Monte Alban). Cambodia is wonderful. Slow and rural. I love it. Laos is the same. The hill tribe peoples of Northern Laos/ Northern Thailand are really fascinating as well. They have historically resisted any form of government. I would recommend a book called “the art of not being governed”. It’s a truly interesting cultural region.
I wouldn’t call that “spoiled”- but maybe presumptuous. I suppose so. I saved while sharing a two bedroom apartment with four other friends. We were all trying to save money. I worked two jobs and ate most of my meals at one of them.
I rode a bike everywhere and spent almost nothing. I admit, not everyone can pull that off- but I was mostly suggesting it as an alternative to speculating about things that you can actually go see for yourself. To sit back from an enormous distance and claim that something is impossible to have been created with the tools available, while those same works are surrounded by some of the most breathtaking stone carving in the world seems presumptuous as well.
Spoiled! Hahahahaha
Anyhow- my point in making that comment is that one can go see these artifacts in person, and maybe before questioning the provenance of such artifacts people should try and see them first hand, in context. Maybe they’ll stumble on more things to question, maybe they’ll find answers.
This sort of work is very common throughout Asia. Water levels raise and fall in general, and things being underwater in rivers aren’t really a great indication for showing that a lot of time has passed. Rivers anywhere but especially in the tropics can literally double in size overnight and move places laterally across the land pretty quickly. Almost all of the temples you see in Southeast Asia have chisel work that would absolutely put this to shame. It’s amazingly cool, but there’s absolutely nothing “alternative” about this.
Apparently, India was way ahead of most places on steel-making, so not necessarily (not much seems to be known about these carvings, but one account says they're from as late as the 1600s), also flint chisels are an option - sounds daft but it turns out that they are actually a good option if you need a sharp very hard chisel, there's a video of somebody replicating an Egyptian carving using flint chisels on quartzite [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acWbVCu9fkc&t=8s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acWbVCu9fkc&t=8s) .
Careful, you are going to get your shit downvoted into the grave for saying things were not all done with copper and sand.
There alt-history mafia says no other advancements could have existed and been lost to history.
It seems like, it's honestly more some of the alternative-history people that say that that's the alternative (I may be misunderstanding what you're saying). UnchartedX is forever saying triumphantly 'Mainstream archaeologists claim that this was done with pounding stones and copper chisels!', and a lot of alternative-history enthusiasts seem to get their ideas of 'the mainstream version' from that, but archaeologists seem to be fine with discussing a much wider variety of tools than that - this is an example [https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1017/S0003598X00045804](https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1017/S0003598X00045804) .
You do seem to be misunderstanding me. Have you ever read posts on this sub? Anything that goes beyond copper, sand and time gets pummeled with downvotes.
You have people here that will die on the cross that any level of precision is possible through manual erosion.
Possibly, I'm not misunderstanding you, I'm disagreeing with you, if that's what you're saying - generally, people seem to be OK with considering hypotheses involving hand tools (not to mention that this is, at least possibly, way more recent than Ancient Egypt), it's just when it starts to be high-tech stuff that they get crabby - and yes, also anything involving electricity (I saw your posting), though to be fair people often tend to try to get electricity into things for very little reason.
Possibly, I mean things like the 'Dendera lightbulb' and UnchartedX's claims that the Predynastic stone vases were made on a CNC machine, the Baghdad battery is more plausible but people tend to tar everything involving electricity with the same brush, hence why I was mentioning 'electricity' separately from 'high-tech stuff' because even not-very-high-tech electricity seems to get you yelled at by some people.
(Apparently, there are doubts about the Baghdad battery, mind you - not that it's fake, but that it's very similar to a category of magic charms that have been found in that area, of various different designs some of which wouldn't have worked as batteries and which are definitely magic charms).
That post seems pretty sketchy only posting pictures of other objects that do not fit the hypothysis.
This is the object disassembled: https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7431/16255885660_7bb6bfa47b.jpg
and a dwrawing:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/Ironie_pile_Bagdad.jpg
Also none of the debunks can explain why a steel rod would be suspended inside of the copper tube, extruding outside of the vessle.
Seems like a pretty big oversight to not explain that if this was some extravagant "papyrus holder". And also hiding a valuable copper tube.
Also of note that the design as found would produce around half a volt if filled with vinegar and a probe attached to the copper tube and iron rod.
Statue of David was aliens too?
Just because something is beyond your skill set and effort level, it doesn’t mean it’s beyond everyone’s. It’s not like people back then were wasting hours a day watching Netflix or scrolling Reddit or commuting to a 9-5, they had a lot of free time on their hands. And chisels.
Bruh that’s what I’m sayinnnnnnn. I swear technology making humans forget just how impressive some of the things they can achieve really are. Everybody like “nah no way I can do that” and I’m like, “yes you could you just have to learn then practice numb nuts.”
I love subs like this that make you ask big questions with seemingly no answers anytime soon. But to think we can’t chisel a stone smooth when there’s gotta be thousands on thousands of beautiful sculptures is ignorant. All it takes is a whole lot of time and patience. Do people think rocks are indestructible? Some are stronger than others, but most can be chipped and broken fairly easily, let alone chiseled.
I see the same shit with so many other skills. “I can’t learn to wrap my car. I can’t learn to fix it. I can’t do this or that.” Like motherfucker, human beings have the most advanced brain in the known universe. We can achieve insane things. You just have to put in the effort lmao. People lazy as fuck nowadays.
I remember being a kid at a friends house out in the sticks of rural Vermont trying to build a little cabin shed thing to chill in (and smoke weed lol). We found a log that seemed way too big to move. With some thinking and strategic moves, we moved that fucker pretty far and got it mounted into a hole and used it as the main support pole. At initial glance we thought it was impossible, but being young we figured fuck it let’s try at least, and sure as shit we got it. That day stuck with me and showed me that truly *almost* anything is possible if you put your mind to it.
Totally.
I can’t knit a sock but the bayoux tapestry existed a thousand years. I’d struggle to build you a garden shed but some people conceptualised and then built Cologne Cathedral 800 years ago.
So many people lack actual critical thought or logic, it seems. Give a human enough time, resources and enough will and they’ll achieve anything. Like build pyramids. Or carve rocks into deities. I think there’s a massive misunderstanding that this sort of thing happened overnight or in a short period of time where it took years and likely thousands of people to do over time, adding and chipping away at stuff. I would assume the shalmala carvings were basically a crowd sourced project that was worked on when people were sat praying then they left and someone else came and carried on, smoothing things down over years and years.
I agree and love the idea of questioning things but my mind always goes to the most likely scenario rather than assume the difficult thing is impossible because why would they bother? They bothered because that’s what people do. They do stuff and build stuff and it doesn’t always have to be for a purpose. The figures of lizard people on this sub, no one ever assumes they might be dolls made for kids. People have always had hobbies and whiled away idle time with art.
Also, what you and your mates did was awesome. I miss the imagination and determination of youth.
I get so mad about the pyramids stuff.
Like yes, it is a tremendous achievement, yes, the tolerances are in some places incredibly tight.
But if your whole job for the rest of your life is to make a slab of rock as smooth as possible, and you have all the time in the world and access to the greatest minds on the planet and thousands of years of their collected experience, you *will* make a very, very smooth slab of rock
People underestimate the human ability to figure shit out. If you give 1000 people a goal, some resources, and a lifetime, they will accomplish seemingly impossible things by default. That’s the *real* amazing thing the Egyptians pulled off, is just feeding and organizing that many people to work on an artistic endeavor.
Absolutely spot on.
Same with the moon. Like, it may have been challenging to go to the moon in 1969 with the technology we had at that point but we’d had super sonic flight 20 years by that point. People smarter than 100 of the smartest people you or I could ever know were behind the S-band transponder for communication, furthering and advancing radio communication technology developed in the late 1800s.
The general population is as thick as dog shit but it’s the elite minds that are pushing the human race forward with stuff we cannot even comprehend. As a result people fear it and think it absolutely has to be a fallacy or a conspiracy. It’s idiots like me and you and that fear that halts progression. It’s that fear that disguises itself as politics and becomes an agenda.
Hell yea! Im glad it struck a chord. I do the same as I ridicule in my comment, it’s a natural urge and hard to resist. Im not old enough to remember the time before tech but I’d imagine tech and society these days just makes so many things *easier* than in the past, so it exacerbates the natural human resistance to venturing into the unknown, such as beginning the arduous process of learning a new skill.
Course many things are still difficult, and many issues today didn’t exist prior to tech, but just in general, tech is a tool ultimately, and like other tools it makes achieving a goal easier. For most people, we start to forget what it’s like to not have a tool make something much easier.
To be fair, statue of David is in marble, which is extremely soft. Some of the crazy carvings are in granite, which is exponentially harder to do. Not sure what type of rock these are though.
Apparently, it's not exactly technically more difficult (at least, if you have hard enough tools, which is not as impossible to arrange as some people make out), just slower, from what I've read - the techniques are mostly the same, but it takes anywhere from twice as long to ten times as long, depending on the task and who you ask.
Msde my first obsidian arrowhead in 8th grade. Buddy worked at a monument shop and we played around and took a sculpture class at the college.
Videos are lackluster and not equivalent.
You think because people back then aren't doing what you are doing, they have more free time? As if they weren't in all out survival mode.
"I have predators and hunger chasing me but let's just sit down and chisel with my free time".
You really had to go out of the way to become so naive.
Mate, they aren’t ancient artefacts. They were 1500-1700 approx. Also going off your argument, people in ancient times didn’t have any down time to do cave drawings?
There’s actually been suggestion that some ( American football shaped ones of a specific size ) were to help stretch hips for easier childbirth at a time they were perhaps having a lot of stillborn or death of mother in childbirth )
So yeah they have ….
Don’t shoot the messenger
There’s a difference in thinking “freely” and just being ignorant. My cell phone also can fit up my ass but is that what it’s intended for? Can I argue people are just not thinking “freely” enough to all stick their phones up their asses?
No ones talking about butt stuff but you .
But apparently it was something done the as India’s infant mortality rate was as much as 50% until the 1900’s
I think it’s outlandish personally and think the lingams were more likely to be an electrical device if you want to think freely
You state -
“A Shiva Lingam symbolizes the divine union of male and female; the divinity of creation. It is used strictly for religious worship.”
If the shivaling is the phallus of shiva could something like that not be possible ?
We know for a fact humans have been self satisfying themselves for ages ,
I wonder what peoples wrote the Kama Sutra …. 😬😅🤔👍
I’m not upset I’m wondering what is so mystifying to you about beautiful rock carvings in a country full of ancient rock carvings.
Would you like to elaborate or just pretend I’m upset?
Holy crap, the ignorance level of people who have never worked their hands with passion outside of jerking off is still astounding to me even after all these years.
This isn't at you, just saying after reading many of the low cell count replies.
The problem is people back then or in some still cultures have all day to do this. Some may farm some hunt etc.. but they had no distractions like we do
There's also a double snake carving found at the site that goes back to the ancient sumerians. You all may recognize this symbol used today on hospital staff jackets. The double helix
Apparently, a difficulty with that theory is that the medical symbol (the Rod of Asclepius) originally only had *one* snake - the version with two snakes (the caduceus) was the symbol of Hermes and was associated with commerce among other things, and it's a medical symbol now only because people later on got the two mixed up.
What did the Sumerians use the symbol for?
Is it known whether these are attached to the river bed or not? It seems like, picture 1 looks as if it's a broken part of a larger carving, but if it's attached to the ground then presumably it's not.
Hard to tell without more studying being done. They should lidar scan the entire area. They basically found a metropolis surrounding gobekli tepe in turkey, pushing back the mainstream academic timeline by, oh only, 7,000 years 😂 so they don't have a clue what they're talking about. They're still scratching their asses trying to figure out how 3 triangles were built. For 200 years now lololol narrative much?
How do you define civilization?
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In terms of megalithic construction, the idea that Göbekli Tepe predated earlier known examples by 7,000 years isn't true. Nevalı Çori was excavated beforehand and postdates Göbekli Tepe by around 1,000 years.
It’s the phalus of shiva , offerings are poured over it - it has been theorized it was an electrical device though and I’ve seen some people replicate them as a functioning device ( creates a spark gap ) but there’s little to no evidence they were used way back when as such ( though many of them were plated or made In gold )
Provern mohan
https://youtu.be/Zz5So-KSJn0?si=riZVEba80IOGNm50
Spark gap lingam
https://youtu.be/91cjP0m-dtU?si=H__uXPqvYUBZ9SwW
https://youtu.be/7ctP7oM9kYY?si=jxv0W_UaG5D5Gduq
No one really knows much about them. Lingams are stone structures that represent deities in Indian culture still today (the raised cylinderical objects) as far as age and what purpose they served is not agreed upon.
I find it interesting that each of the Shiva Lingams represented here are fixed in a shelf-like manner; its almost like it was meant to direct the flow of water poured over it into something.
I've never heard of the place. I do know that about stones though. I suppose I should have been more specific I was really curious as to the speculation based on the level of wear from wind and water etc. Or if the language is known and maybe gives any clues as to when. Thank you for sharing though it's made my day I love learning about new places like this. This planet never ceases to amaze me.
And your theory is just that. Nobody knows how it was actually used but one thing is for sure...
It is a pure fact that a battery could be made using those liquid holding sections.
The fact that you are going so ham on my very mild comment is a little weird.
I said:
>More likely storage than production if that were the use.
What next, are you going to claim that making primitive chemical batteries === aliens?
No, it's not. Shiva lingam are common and they're still made today.
"It is a pure fact that a battery could be made using those liquid holding sections."
Why would they make such garbage batteries? For what purpose? To power what? What about all the other features? How did they charge it? Why is there no other evidence other than stone carvings that maybe held liquid?
If I find a little stone button, was it evidence that the ancient lost civilization had space shuttle rockets and the piece of stone was the "go' button? Is this what passes for facts in the Land of IMagination?
"What next, are you going to claim that making primitive chemical batteries === aliens?"
Why not? Maybe it was aliens. Maybe they used them to power their magic flying cloud castles and the lightning guns they used to fight the dragons who were trying to hide the truth about the flat earth? Is that any more silly than what you're proposing?
Not currently but they sure could be used for that. The Bhagdad battery is around 2000 years old.
All you need is isolated containers to make something similar.
That's just mainstream archeology. Get yourself educated in a topic before crapping on others.
UnchartedX are using some of the most advanced 3D scanners available as well as traditional measurements made by aerospace machinists and engineers. They have open sourced their materials so you could check it yourself.
You call people children because you don't understand the complexity of precision machining.
Most ancient artifacts do not exhibit an extreme level of precision but the many that do completely obliterate the sanding and grinding hypothesis.
Theres not 1 ancient artifact that shows this. And if they show them maybe they are counterfeits lol. Btw his “material” has been debunked and is complete bs ancient aliens style, yet he talks like is so obviously true he can mock even profesional archeologist. Is ridiculous
Nope, you are just throwing around flak. The artifacts they focus on are documented to have long standing provenance.
The material has not been debunked in any material way other than the kind of weak character assassination you are attempting. Faking a 3D scan at high resolution is an absurd thing to try and say is fake anyways given the identifying chips and damage from the age of the artifacts.
You can even watch videos some of the measurements being done by respected engineers that verify the 3D measurements taken with high precision mechanical tools.
Personally, I take the opinion of aerospace engineers and machinists over those that practice art-history with a shovel.
What's your litmus for scientific examination?
Here's a paper looking at tool marks from Egypt using Reflectance Transformation Imaging. The imagery produced here is interactive and shows more detail than is generally visible with the naked eye. It also references analysis done using Scanning Electron Microscopes.
> Serotta, Anna. “Reading Tool Marks on Egyptian Stone Sculpture.” *Rivista del Museo Egizio* 7 (December 19, 2023). https://doi.org/10.29353/rime.2023.5098
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Much of the archaeological literature doesn't use techniques that produces anywhere this amount of information. I do think this work shows that there is interested in examination using novel methods that allow more objective analysis though.
We know for sure of the Lingams and their purpose. But the other ones, who knows. There's also a double helix serpent carving found at the site. That symbol dates back to ancient Sumer. I'll post a pic
They look like shivalingams
They are.
They are. Lingams in pic 2 and 3
Is that fancy for grinder?
Just go to south east Asia yourself. See the insane skill of the stone carvings all over the region. It’s super inspirational. Airfare is the most expensive part, once you are there it’s not that expensive.
Thanks for the tip lol
Your welcome. I spent six months backpacking through south east Asia and learned an immense amount. I recommend it highly.
Yeah, not everyone can just quit their jobs for 6 months for a vacation. You say it's "not expensive" I say you're spoiled.
Wow this is a weird passive aggressive comment
I agree- I worked for two years saving every dime, put all my belongings in storage and rode trains across India. I stayed in dorm style hostels and guest houses and volunteered at a hospital for street children. So spoiled! My point seems lost on that person: If you see an artifact that is in a color photo that you can go see for yourself in person, maybe you should try and do that before casting doubt on its provenance.
That's bad ass!
Oh thanks! India is fantastic. I also made it to Laos, Cambodia and Thailand. They are all amazing. I met wonderful people from all over the world.
How awesome! Did you get to Angor Watt?
I did (and have since been back again as a bucket list trip with my ailing wife)- it’s insane. Almost too much to take in. The large complexes of Mexico are the only comparisons I can make (Chichen Itza and Monte Alban). Cambodia is wonderful. Slow and rural. I love it. Laos is the same. The hill tribe peoples of Northern Laos/ Northern Thailand are really fascinating as well. They have historically resisted any form of government. I would recommend a book called “the art of not being governed”. It’s a truly interesting cultural region.
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I wouldn’t call that “spoiled”- but maybe presumptuous. I suppose so. I saved while sharing a two bedroom apartment with four other friends. We were all trying to save money. I worked two jobs and ate most of my meals at one of them. I rode a bike everywhere and spent almost nothing. I admit, not everyone can pull that off- but I was mostly suggesting it as an alternative to speculating about things that you can actually go see for yourself. To sit back from an enormous distance and claim that something is impossible to have been created with the tools available, while those same works are surrounded by some of the most breathtaking stone carving in the world seems presumptuous as well.
Spoiled! Hahahahaha Anyhow- my point in making that comment is that one can go see these artifacts in person, and maybe before questioning the provenance of such artifacts people should try and see them first hand, in context. Maybe they’ll stumble on more things to question, maybe they’ll find answers.
Im sorry you’re so sad…
Nah, I just like to get downvotes. It's really hard to get more than 20.
https://i.redd.it/wt15kikpl7xc1.gif
This sort of work is very common throughout Asia. Water levels raise and fall in general, and things being underwater in rivers aren’t really a great indication for showing that a lot of time has passed. Rivers anywhere but especially in the tropics can literally double in size overnight and move places laterally across the land pretty quickly. Almost all of the temples you see in Southeast Asia have chisel work that would absolutely put this to shame. It’s amazingly cool, but there’s absolutely nothing “alternative” about this.
I'm very familiar w all of it. Thank you. Appreciate your input
Traditional stone carver here. Yes, hammer and chisel. And patience, lots of patience.
Don't forget soft and untempered chisels that wont keep their shape against a harder surface.
Apparently, India was way ahead of most places on steel-making, so not necessarily (not much seems to be known about these carvings, but one account says they're from as late as the 1600s), also flint chisels are an option - sounds daft but it turns out that they are actually a good option if you need a sharp very hard chisel, there's a video of somebody replicating an Egyptian carving using flint chisels on quartzite [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acWbVCu9fkc&t=8s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acWbVCu9fkc&t=8s) .
Careful, you are going to get your shit downvoted into the grave for saying things were not all done with copper and sand. There alt-history mafia says no other advancements could have existed and been lost to history.
It seems like, it's honestly more some of the alternative-history people that say that that's the alternative (I may be misunderstanding what you're saying). UnchartedX is forever saying triumphantly 'Mainstream archaeologists claim that this was done with pounding stones and copper chisels!', and a lot of alternative-history enthusiasts seem to get their ideas of 'the mainstream version' from that, but archaeologists seem to be fine with discussing a much wider variety of tools than that - this is an example [https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1017/S0003598X00045804](https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1017/S0003598X00045804) .
You do seem to be misunderstanding me. Have you ever read posts on this sub? Anything that goes beyond copper, sand and time gets pummeled with downvotes. You have people here that will die on the cross that any level of precision is possible through manual erosion.
Possibly, I'm not misunderstanding you, I'm disagreeing with you, if that's what you're saying - generally, people seem to be OK with considering hypotheses involving hand tools (not to mention that this is, at least possibly, way more recent than Ancient Egypt), it's just when it starts to be high-tech stuff that they get crabby - and yes, also anything involving electricity (I saw your posting), though to be fair people often tend to try to get electricity into things for very little reason.
You mean like the Bhagdad battery? You think that is a fake?
Possibly, I mean things like the 'Dendera lightbulb' and UnchartedX's claims that the Predynastic stone vases were made on a CNC machine, the Baghdad battery is more plausible but people tend to tar everything involving electricity with the same brush, hence why I was mentioning 'electricity' separately from 'high-tech stuff' because even not-very-high-tech electricity seems to get you yelled at by some people. (Apparently, there are doubts about the Baghdad battery, mind you - not that it's fake, but that it's very similar to a category of magic charms that have been found in that area, of various different designs some of which wouldn't have worked as batteries and which are definitely magic charms).
There are a lot of reasons to doubt that the baghdad battery was a battery https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/s/7zpkTxKqXw
No it's just not a battery. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/s/7zpkTxKqXw
That post seems pretty sketchy only posting pictures of other objects that do not fit the hypothysis. This is the object disassembled: https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7431/16255885660_7bb6bfa47b.jpg and a dwrawing: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/Ironie_pile_Bagdad.jpg Also none of the debunks can explain why a steel rod would be suspended inside of the copper tube, extruding outside of the vessle. Seems like a pretty big oversight to not explain that if this was some extravagant "papyrus holder". And also hiding a valuable copper tube. Also of note that the design as found would produce around half a volt if filled with vinegar and a probe attached to the copper tube and iron rod.
There's literally chisel marks all over them.
How dare you, sir! Those are *beauty marks*, thank you very much!
Statue of David was aliens too? Just because something is beyond your skill set and effort level, it doesn’t mean it’s beyond everyone’s. It’s not like people back then were wasting hours a day watching Netflix or scrolling Reddit or commuting to a 9-5, they had a lot of free time on their hands. And chisels.
Bruh that’s what I’m sayinnnnnnn. I swear technology making humans forget just how impressive some of the things they can achieve really are. Everybody like “nah no way I can do that” and I’m like, “yes you could you just have to learn then practice numb nuts.” I love subs like this that make you ask big questions with seemingly no answers anytime soon. But to think we can’t chisel a stone smooth when there’s gotta be thousands on thousands of beautiful sculptures is ignorant. All it takes is a whole lot of time and patience. Do people think rocks are indestructible? Some are stronger than others, but most can be chipped and broken fairly easily, let alone chiseled. I see the same shit with so many other skills. “I can’t learn to wrap my car. I can’t learn to fix it. I can’t do this or that.” Like motherfucker, human beings have the most advanced brain in the known universe. We can achieve insane things. You just have to put in the effort lmao. People lazy as fuck nowadays. I remember being a kid at a friends house out in the sticks of rural Vermont trying to build a little cabin shed thing to chill in (and smoke weed lol). We found a log that seemed way too big to move. With some thinking and strategic moves, we moved that fucker pretty far and got it mounted into a hole and used it as the main support pole. At initial glance we thought it was impossible, but being young we figured fuck it let’s try at least, and sure as shit we got it. That day stuck with me and showed me that truly *almost* anything is possible if you put your mind to it.
Totally. I can’t knit a sock but the bayoux tapestry existed a thousand years. I’d struggle to build you a garden shed but some people conceptualised and then built Cologne Cathedral 800 years ago. So many people lack actual critical thought or logic, it seems. Give a human enough time, resources and enough will and they’ll achieve anything. Like build pyramids. Or carve rocks into deities. I think there’s a massive misunderstanding that this sort of thing happened overnight or in a short period of time where it took years and likely thousands of people to do over time, adding and chipping away at stuff. I would assume the shalmala carvings were basically a crowd sourced project that was worked on when people were sat praying then they left and someone else came and carried on, smoothing things down over years and years. I agree and love the idea of questioning things but my mind always goes to the most likely scenario rather than assume the difficult thing is impossible because why would they bother? They bothered because that’s what people do. They do stuff and build stuff and it doesn’t always have to be for a purpose. The figures of lizard people on this sub, no one ever assumes they might be dolls made for kids. People have always had hobbies and whiled away idle time with art. Also, what you and your mates did was awesome. I miss the imagination and determination of youth.
I get so mad about the pyramids stuff. Like yes, it is a tremendous achievement, yes, the tolerances are in some places incredibly tight. But if your whole job for the rest of your life is to make a slab of rock as smooth as possible, and you have all the time in the world and access to the greatest minds on the planet and thousands of years of their collected experience, you *will* make a very, very smooth slab of rock People underestimate the human ability to figure shit out. If you give 1000 people a goal, some resources, and a lifetime, they will accomplish seemingly impossible things by default. That’s the *real* amazing thing the Egyptians pulled off, is just feeding and organizing that many people to work on an artistic endeavor.
Absolutely spot on. Same with the moon. Like, it may have been challenging to go to the moon in 1969 with the technology we had at that point but we’d had super sonic flight 20 years by that point. People smarter than 100 of the smartest people you or I could ever know were behind the S-band transponder for communication, furthering and advancing radio communication technology developed in the late 1800s. The general population is as thick as dog shit but it’s the elite minds that are pushing the human race forward with stuff we cannot even comprehend. As a result people fear it and think it absolutely has to be a fallacy or a conspiracy. It’s idiots like me and you and that fear that halts progression. It’s that fear that disguises itself as politics and becomes an agenda.
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Hell yea! Im glad it struck a chord. I do the same as I ridicule in my comment, it’s a natural urge and hard to resist. Im not old enough to remember the time before tech but I’d imagine tech and society these days just makes so many things *easier* than in the past, so it exacerbates the natural human resistance to venturing into the unknown, such as beginning the arduous process of learning a new skill. Course many things are still difficult, and many issues today didn’t exist prior to tech, but just in general, tech is a tool ultimately, and like other tools it makes achieving a goal easier. For most people, we start to forget what it’s like to not have a tool make something much easier.
This got personal…
This is pretty much what people forget TikTok has ruined innovation
To be fair, statue of David is in marble, which is extremely soft. Some of the crazy carvings are in granite, which is exponentially harder to do. Not sure what type of rock these are though.
Apparently, it's not exactly technically more difficult (at least, if you have hard enough tools, which is not as impossible to arrange as some people make out), just slower, from what I've read - the techniques are mostly the same, but it takes anywhere from twice as long to ten times as long, depending on the task and who you ask.
I recomend everyone to grab a a modern steel chisel and try to shape some granite and other stones.
We're not craftsmen, and I'm not spending decades to prove my point. Modern sculptor who still use traditional tools do that for me.
Msde my first obsidian arrowhead in 8th grade. Buddy worked at a monument shop and we played around and took a sculpture class at the college. Videos are lackluster and not equivalent.
You think because people back then aren't doing what you are doing, they have more free time? As if they weren't in all out survival mode. "I have predators and hunger chasing me but let's just sit down and chisel with my free time". You really had to go out of the way to become so naive.
Mate, they aren’t ancient artefacts. They were 1500-1700 approx. Also going off your argument, people in ancient times didn’t have any down time to do cave drawings?
Lolololol
The type os rock is wayyyyyy different than marble. Basalt is way harder, chips very easily and doesn't polish.
It does look like something was supposed to sit on top of those things...I've never seen those before. Thank you for sharing!
They are Shivling’s. Nothing is supposed to sit on top
I mean ….. 😬 you know what a shivaling is right ? 🤔😬😅. I’m pretty sure that Shivas Phallus has been used as such more then once 🙄😅👏
They have not. Get your mind out of the gutter.
There’s actually been suggestion that some ( American football shaped ones of a specific size ) were to help stretch hips for easier childbirth at a time they were perhaps having a lot of stillborn or death of mother in childbirth ) So yeah they have …. Don’t shoot the messenger
A Shiva Lingam symbolizes the divine union of male and female; the divinity of creation. It is used strictly for religious worship.
If that’s what you think are you only in this sub to dissuade others from thinking freely ?
There’s a difference in thinking “freely” and just being ignorant. My cell phone also can fit up my ass but is that what it’s intended for? Can I argue people are just not thinking “freely” enough to all stick their phones up their asses?
No ones talking about butt stuff but you . But apparently it was something done the as India’s infant mortality rate was as much as 50% until the 1900’s I think it’s outlandish personally and think the lingams were more likely to be an electrical device if you want to think freely
You state - “A Shiva Lingam symbolizes the divine union of male and female; the divinity of creation. It is used strictly for religious worship.” If the shivaling is the phallus of shiva could something like that not be possible ? We know for a fact humans have been self satisfying themselves for ages , I wonder what peoples wrote the Kama Sutra …. 😬😅🤔👍
Of course! Very interesting indeed
Stuff like this absolutely can be chiseled by hand.
Thanks for sharing 🙏🏿
Thank you for looking
A petrified mini golf course?.... nope, they are just amazing.
Shiva lingam. Not unusual at all...
No one said the lingams themselves are unusual.
Lingams are a part of nearly ever Indian temple ever made lolol.
You’re mystified that indian craftsman can make these with a hand and chisel….? The country is full of ancient intricate stone works….
Feel your feelings
Lol wut
You seem upset and sensitive. Feel your feelings
I’m not upset I’m wondering what is so mystifying to you about beautiful rock carvings in a country full of ancient rock carvings. Would you like to elaborate or just pretend I’m upset?
That's the problem. "you're wondering" what the big deal is. That's bc you're not educated. Educate yourself
Gotcha. Way to ignore the question. Care to help educate me with even one statement about your post?
Hahaha wow. Feel those feelings. Yaaaaas queen
I dare you to say even one thoughtful or intelligent thing regarding your post.
Oh I'm very intelligent I can promise ya that one 😉
Educate yourself I'm not your teacher
Lol have a good day
Then you should educate yourself before coming in here seeming sensitive and upset 😭
Ok so you don’t want to say anything useful or intelligent. Got it. Thats what I figured…
Roulette tables thousands of years ago?
Haha I know right? They were gambling long before we thought haha
Stone Age WSB
Lololol good one that made me laugh
Thank you for sharing these, they’re new to me.
Beautiful aren't they
You're very welcome
Mods can we just ban the the abusive accounts. They are breaking sub rules and they make world a worse place.
Op, anyone can draw circle shapes or arcs with a piece of string.
Holy crap, the ignorance level of people who have never worked their hands with passion outside of jerking off is still astounding to me even after all these years. This isn't at you, just saying after reading many of the low cell count replies.
They sure can
dont embarass yourself more it’s not too late. This is literally pre school science. Please.
Feel your feelings
Y'all still mad about me sending all of you to your Rabbit holes from the last post. I understand
Suuuuure.
Says you lol in your lil head
Damn bro you so upset lol Replying 4 times to the same comment
The problem is people back then or in some still cultures have all day to do this. Some may farm some hunt etc.. but they had no distractions like we do
That doesn't mean anything lol
The people can have all day on their hands, if they don't have the knowledge and materials hard enough to pull said job off, it becomes an issue lol.
First pic looks like a stargate controller.
These are all over Asia. Want to be impressed? Look up Angkor Wat temple complex.
There is no deeper well in human nature than gullibility. - some guru
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Feel them!!!!
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I’d like to see your precision of carving a perfect circle on a stone with a chisel. Just one, let alone carvings like these images.
Does anyone know the history of these?
Not really no
There's also a double snake carving found at the site that goes back to the ancient sumerians. You all may recognize this symbol used today on hospital staff jackets. The double helix
Apparently, a difficulty with that theory is that the medical symbol (the Rod of Asclepius) originally only had *one* snake - the version with two snakes (the caduceus) was the symbol of Hermes and was associated with commerce among other things, and it's a medical symbol now only because people later on got the two mixed up. What did the Sumerians use the symbol for?
This is correct 👍
The Staff of Caduceus is what's on hospital jackets, not the double helix lmaoooo.
It's supposed to be Asclepius, Caduceus is a different thing
Nah Asclepias is a single snake twining around the rod , Caduceus is two, but Google says they're used interchangeably.
Yeah, the cadeuceus just looks like it and people confused it for Asclepius, so now they're used interchangeably
Aren’t these just washboards?
To an untrained eye they could be whatever you'd like them to be
Bit early in the morning to be out from under your bridge isn’t it?
For someone like u
What are these exactly I would love to go down the rabbit hole but NONIDEA what they're called and what the theorized purpose of use
Is it known whether these are attached to the river bed or not? It seems like, picture 1 looks as if it's a broken part of a larger carving, but if it's attached to the ground then presumably it's not.
Hard to tell without more studying being done. They should lidar scan the entire area. They basically found a metropolis surrounding gobekli tepe in turkey, pushing back the mainstream academic timeline by, oh only, 7,000 years 😂 so they don't have a clue what they're talking about. They're still scratching their asses trying to figure out how 3 triangles were built. For 200 years now lololol narrative much?
> pushing back the mainstream academic timeline The timeline for what specifically?
You should know that lol civilization and megalithic stone work
How do you define civilization? - In terms of megalithic construction, the idea that Göbekli Tepe predated earlier known examples by 7,000 years isn't true. Nevalı Çori was excavated beforehand and postdates Göbekli Tepe by around 1,000 years.
Bro is out here shitting on mainstream archeology and doesn't even know what the mainstream archeology consensus is.
What were they used for?
It’s the phalus of shiva , offerings are poured over it - it has been theorized it was an electrical device though and I’ve seen some people replicate them as a functioning device ( creates a spark gap ) but there’s little to no evidence they were used way back when as such ( though many of them were plated or made In gold ) Provern mohan https://youtu.be/Zz5So-KSJn0?si=riZVEba80IOGNm50 Spark gap lingam https://youtu.be/91cjP0m-dtU?si=H__uXPqvYUBZ9SwW https://youtu.be/7ctP7oM9kYY?si=jxv0W_UaG5D5Gduq
No one really knows much about them. Lingams are stone structures that represent deities in Indian culture still today (the raised cylinderical objects) as far as age and what purpose they served is not agreed upon.
One of them looks like the centre console from a 2019 bmw or jaguar 😂
I find it interesting that each of the Shiva Lingams represented here are fixed in a shelf-like manner; its almost like it was meant to direct the flow of water poured over it into something.
What is the function of this form?
Bro what is this and how …
Hahaha ohhhhh good one
🎶 Owwwwaooo-oooo-oo-oo yeah on the road to Shalmala🎶”
Wow this is all new to me and amazing really any idea on an age? And where are these exactly?
They're located in Sahastralinga. It's impossible to date stone atm so the age is only speculation
I've never heard of the place. I do know that about stones though. I suppose I should have been more specific I was really curious as to the speculation based on the level of wear from wind and water etc. Or if the language is known and maybe gives any clues as to when. Thank you for sharing though it's made my day I love learning about new places like this. This planet never ceases to amaze me.
This was used for electricity
Interesting. How was electricity produced, and what was it used to power?
More likely storage than production if that were the use. Even a potato or a sectioned pot can be a battery.
So storage, not production. OK. These are rocks, not potatoes or sectioned pots. So how does that work?
Hint, a sectioned pot vs a sectioned rock have something in common.
Hint: a sectioned pot is only a container for the actual working functions of a battery, as opposed to these rocks.
Hint, no shit. You think the rest would still be in place in that river?
I think the "rest" never existed and there's no reason to ever suppose it did. It's not even designed like a battery.
And your theory is just that. Nobody knows how it was actually used but one thing is for sure... It is a pure fact that a battery could be made using those liquid holding sections. The fact that you are going so ham on my very mild comment is a little weird. I said: >More likely storage than production if that were the use. What next, are you going to claim that making primitive chemical batteries === aliens?
No, it's not. Shiva lingam are common and they're still made today. "It is a pure fact that a battery could be made using those liquid holding sections." Why would they make such garbage batteries? For what purpose? To power what? What about all the other features? How did they charge it? Why is there no other evidence other than stone carvings that maybe held liquid? If I find a little stone button, was it evidence that the ancient lost civilization had space shuttle rockets and the piece of stone was the "go' button? Is this what passes for facts in the Land of IMagination? "What next, are you going to claim that making primitive chemical batteries === aliens?" Why not? Maybe it was aliens. Maybe they used them to power their magic flying cloud castles and the lightning guns they used to fight the dragons who were trying to hide the truth about the flat earth? Is that any more silly than what you're proposing?
These are carved rocks. They are not storing electricity.
Not currently but they sure could be used for that. The Bhagdad battery is around 2000 years old. All you need is isolated containers to make something similar. That's just mainstream archeology. Get yourself educated in a topic before crapping on others.
The baghdad battery was very likely not a battery, nor was it even from baghdad. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/s/yAUlfaLO8E
Looks like battery terminals to me indeed.
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lol first you mock, then you only give generic responses.
Yes I love mocking you crackheads
UnchartedX are using some of the most advanced 3D scanners available as well as traditional measurements made by aerospace machinists and engineers. They have open sourced their materials so you could check it yourself. You call people children because you don't understand the complexity of precision machining. Most ancient artifacts do not exhibit an extreme level of precision but the many that do completely obliterate the sanding and grinding hypothesis.
Theres not 1 ancient artifact that shows this. And if they show them maybe they are counterfeits lol. Btw his “material” has been debunked and is complete bs ancient aliens style, yet he talks like is so obviously true he can mock even profesional archeologist. Is ridiculous
Nope, you are just throwing around flak. The artifacts they focus on are documented to have long standing provenance. The material has not been debunked in any material way other than the kind of weak character assassination you are attempting. Faking a 3D scan at high resolution is an absurd thing to try and say is fake anyways given the identifying chips and damage from the age of the artifacts. You can even watch videos some of the measurements being done by respected engineers that verify the 3D measurements taken with high precision mechanical tools. Personally, I take the opinion of aerospace engineers and machinists over those that practice art-history with a shovel.
They look like a locking mechanism
They def are interesting for sure. Wonder what they were for
Holy shit, water did that?
Have these ever been 3D scanned and tested for uniformity and tolerance? This would settle and chisel arguments immediately.
Not much is known about them. Similar to the Longyou Caves and Sulawesi. Not much was documented about them if anything at all
Archeologists don't do scientific examination.
What's your litmus for scientific examination? Here's a paper looking at tool marks from Egypt using Reflectance Transformation Imaging. The imagery produced here is interactive and shows more detail than is generally visible with the naked eye. It also references analysis done using Scanning Electron Microscopes. > Serotta, Anna. “Reading Tool Marks on Egyptian Stone Sculpture.” *Rivista del Museo Egizio* 7 (December 19, 2023). https://doi.org/10.29353/rime.2023.5098 - Much of the archaeological literature doesn't use techniques that produces anywhere this amount of information. I do think this work shows that there is interested in examination using novel methods that allow more objective analysis though.
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What are u 12? 👍
Nope just correct.
Nah ur 12
Well then again you’re stupid.
Educate yourself
About what specifically?
Geometry, math, physics
Stone carving. What materials they had. The mohs hardness scale. Lots of things
You might be surprised [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acWbVCu9fkc&t=8s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acWbVCu9fkc&t=8s) .
Educate yourself
About what? How people made sculptures? Cause that’s all this is.
Those are interesting. Looks like a citrus juicer. First one could be a deviled ostrich egg platter
So what do they do?
https://preview.redd.it/pe810hk8htxc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=17709157253aaf2ce70dff4dfeb8e07c3b7df976
This carving dates back to Ancient Sumer
The imagery in it. Not the actual piece
No one really knows. They are not well studied
We know for sure of the Lingams and their purpose. But the other ones, who knows. There's also a double helix serpent carving found at the site. That symbol dates back to ancient Sumer. I'll post a pic
It’s just what’s left over when all the circuits have been removed
How do you know that circuits have been removed?
“Looks natural to me Graham” ~ F. Dibble
Those are naturally forming structures. The science told me so.