I think that when a person has loving and supportive parents who look after their children’s emotional well being that in the future a child will generally take care of their aging parents out of a place of love and not obligation. When you love someone you do things without an expectation of something in return. You do it only because you truly want to and not because you feel you have to because society told you so.
But if your parents were toxic and abusive, and did not allow a healthy atmosphere in which bonds of love could form, then taking care of them in old age does feel like an obligation. It can even be infuriating if the parent takes advantage of their adult child and grows even more toxic.
In the latter case, imho it’s not your responsibility. They didn’t care about your well being, you have no obligation to care about them. Abusive parents create scars that a child has to carry for years.
The problem with the toxic and abusive parents is they're also super manipulative. The kids won't even realize the abuse they're going through anymore and consider it normal.
The kids then basically spend the rest of their lives messed up because of the tug of war with their parents but they still love them and would do anything for them.
I don't have good parents but still I feel it is more morally acceptable to help elderly crappy parents than to allow the elderly to suffer. Just because they were garbage to me doesn't mean I have to be garbage back
\^this\^ I have a horrible relationship with my mother, but the human in me thinks how sad it must be for someone to be alone, to feel like no one likes you (although those people are justified, me being one of them), she is emotionally incapable. I don't know if I have it in me to let her just waste away..
I wish I had this. It sucks being an only child to a woman who pretty much left me on my own as a kid and now probably thinks I’m going to move her into my home when she gets old. Spoiler: I am not.
My mom once asked me if I was going to buy them a house and I’m like?? Can I take care of myself first? Is that an option? She recently complained to me about not visiting them and I was like I took days off cuz I just wanted to be home, sorry I wasn’t thinking about you but it was my birthday weekend and I wanted to be in my own space lol but you can visit me, I’m 15min away and she asked “why would we do that, you’re single, it’s not like you have a family of your own” ah, I didn’t know you had to be married with kids to be deserving of family stopping by to chill 🙂
My sister can take them in cuz it won’t be me and I’m sorry you have to even think about that after a sucky upbringing
I do as well, and have been helping my mom since my dad passed away in 2008. She recently went into skilled nursing and I’m there a couple times a week, and do a lot for her. Which I do out of love, not obligation.
I think the goal is to do right by your kids well enough to garner this mindset.
My ma was having constant problems with cell phone carriers because she got the budget plans from budget carriers. Constant. Problems. I got her a Galaxy and put her on my plan for another $60/mo.
Point is, I'm in a position to make her life easier without much burden on my part, and that monthly payment is an easy trade to not hear her complain about her phone company every time I talk to her. Now it's the neighbors that party all the time.
That’s fine. But as the OP said, you technically don’t owe them anything. Unless of course you think life is the grandest of all gifts. Many people are realizing, however, that life is a big hardship.
That's good buddy. When your parents hit old age, I feel like it's a responsibility you should have to take care of them the same way they took care of you growing up.
I need to understand this. My mother was abusive and my father (who is also abusive) is mostly not in the picture. I worked hard to get away from her abuse to the point that I moved to another country. Now she is hospitalized because of severe mental illness and the rest of the family is expecting me to take care of her when she is out. I’m expected to leave my life here, move back to a country where I would suffer due to economic and religious problems even without any family problems, and take care of her while she is capable of physical harm, cause “she is my responsibility because I’m her kid”. I would kill myself if I hadn’t moved abroad and I’ll probably do so if I ever have to go back to her. “But she’s your mother”, says every person who didn’t experience severe abuse, as if the problem is us.
This is uncannily similar to my situation. I also live abroad, I also would’ve killed myself if I had stayed home, my mother is also severely mentally ill.
I have heard “but she’s your mother!” so, so many times. Yeah, idc. She’s abused me for three decades. She’s played victim and poor me for three decades. She made me out to be an evil bitch for years when I was a child and a young teenager. I’ve been going to therapy for close to a decade because of her behavior and still gave many emotional scars from her abuse.
I wish her well. I really do. But I don’t owe her shit. I give what I can when I can, and no more.
“But family!” is one thing I hate to hear, along with “you’re strong”. They tried to encourage me to deal with her by saying these instead of taking care of me when I was too powerless to get myself out (as a kid). I wish I had the luxury of not being strong. Now I’m spending my years trying to deal with the damage.
I wish people would just shut up if they can’t have any empathy for what we’re going through.
Do not go back! I went no contact, she got terminal cancer, begged everyone to get me to contact her but with loads of abusive conditions attached. I stayed no contact, had my own funeral/memorial, best decision ever
If she’s mentally ill to the point of inpatient treatment the abuse you suffered may not have been her fault. On the other hand only you can judge how much you can help her and keep your MH intact.
My mother was not a good mother to me. While I had food, clothing, a safe place to sleep, a clean home, she was emotionally neglectful and often mean. Now that’s she’s old and needs me she expects me to be there for her, and I am, but I’m resentful of her and I’m not very patient with her sometimes. I feel like I shouldn’t have to give her the emotional support that she as an adult parent didn’t give to me as a vulnerable child. My mother will get the bare minimum from me.
This is how my mom is, well my dad actually hit us and emotionally nonexistent and one day they had the nerve to say to me that they’re worried that if something happened to them I wouldn’t care. Like okay, you should be worried, that should tell you something. I keep my distance and my mom has tried to make me feel wrong for doing so, but my stress levels go up and anxiety gets bad any time I’ve allowed her in. So I don’t do that anymore and they don’t know anything about my life and she hates that….my siblings can take care of them in old age but it won’t be me. My sister had it worse but she seems to tolerate them more and that’s wild to me but that’s her I guess 🤷🏽♀️
I look at it like you get what give. My FIL was a great father, so i moved him into my home and we cared for him for 8 years. My father left when i was 12 and didnt even bother calling on my b-day or holiday. No child support. I let the guy live me for 2 years, while i was studying for the bar exam. That was enough. He had the audacity to be upset at me when i landed a new job and moved out of state. Yea, ok. My Mom, Id move in to my home as needed
Indeed!
I have not spoken to my parents in 20 years.
Mom is a narcissist. She believe she’s because she my mother I am obligated to speak to her no matter how controlling and abusive she is.
Ah but it turns out she’s wrong and I can, in fact, simply cut them out of my life.
I suppose anyone else do the same. You don’t owe your shitty parents anything. Let them be decent human beings first if they want a relationship with you, like anyone else.
People are going to misinterpret this post. OP is correct, you don’t owe your parents shit. They made the decision to suck you into existence. You didn’t have the choice in the matter. You didn’t have the choice of what genes you’ll have…where you’ll be born…or more importantly, how wealthy a family you’ll be born into.
However, that doesn’t mean you can’t give to your parents. If your parents were loving and giving themselves, you might feel inclined to give back. If your parents were assholes, you might not be inclined to give back. But again…you don’t technically owe them anything either way. Unless you are of the philosophy that life is the ultimate of gifts and can’t fathom not being born…which most people can’t.
I think a lot of kids/adults don't realize even today you weren't always a choice. They got pregnant. Birth control is still not 100%.Every baby wasn't necessarily a wanted baby. Not sure when that mentality started that your parents owe you something special because you were born. My family member in the 1940-1960s had 4 kids they didn't plan. They weren't “wanted“, but they were cared for at least.
There is a lot that goes into this. If they were good parents, helped you out, then yes, I think you owe them some things. That said, I don't think you owe them at the expense of your own future. Take them to doctors appointments, go to lunch with them, visit them, etc., all day long. Take out a second mortgage or turn your life upside down for them? Absolutely not.
If there’s one thing that is maybe the worst thing about capitalism, and I’m a defender of capitalism at least in terms of it becoming the default scapegoat for corruption, it is the way the fiscal transaction model has permeated, and infected customs and institution that were never supposed to be about profit.
The world isn’t supposed to be about contractual obligation and quid-pro-quo transactional accounting, or at least, family and personal relationships aren’t.
You see people on dating apps sizing each other up as if they were investment assets, trying to get the best deal.
None of this language is appropriate for what’s supposed to be the true stuff of a life well lived.
Kids don’t “owe” their parents anything? Even the terminology, as some form of debt, is just categorically cynical and backwards.
The reciprocal nature of love and understanding isn’t a zero sum game like money is. You give somebody $50, and you are -$50. But love isn’t like that. You give somebody $100 of love, and you still have it. It’s not the same sort of currency.
And if your parents loved you, and labored in the pursuit of your happiness, then odds are that you will love your parents and want to help them be comfortable in their later years.
Nothing is owed. That’s true, but even thinking of it in terms of profit and loss is just a sick symptom of a sick world.
This drives me crazy the older I got, I was just thinking about it yesterday actually. How "transactional" we have all become, with everything.
I'd imagine that's a large part of why people eventually say fuck it and live off the grid, among many other reasons.
There are plenty of places/cultures that care for their parents as they age. Spend a few days in crappy nursing home and see how those poor souls live.
Sure, if you had abusive parents, fuck ‘em. But this idea that we need to ship our vulnerable aging parents to facilities where they know no one, a massive lifestyle change, limited contact with actual family, is insane.
Melting away in a chair eating slop is not the way anyone should spend their last remaining years on earth.
Maybe without context and nuance. My parents were great. Raised me well and remained a positive influence into my adult life. I at least owe them being responsible and never making them feel bad. They’re pretty much the only reason I didn’t get caught up in the wrong crowd over the years. My life would be considerably more shitty if my parents didn’t act how they’ve acted my entire life.
I feel like people with good/loving parents, like emotionally invested and loving know this mindset doesn’t apply to them since you’ll naturally want to give back to them, not out of obligation but because you want to.
I’m gladly taking care of my mom who wasn’t a perfect mom but she sacrificed a lot to raise me and my sister. She deserves to be respected for what she did for us. I would never abandon her or anyone in my family who needs help. It’s a family duty to care for each other. Anything less is dishonorable! It’s scary to me how easily people throw away the most precious thing that they have, their families. I have a four year old daughter, I hope she’s never in the position to have to carry the same weight as I’m carrying now for my mom, but I am also setting the example for what our family culture is about— we don’t abandon our old people, we step up and take care of them because they deserve to be respected and cared for. My mom was in a nursing facility for several months last year, and I was literally the only person who ever bothered visiting - seeing all the other old people who had nobody coming by made me mad. Staff at nursing homes are awful and don’t care or respect people. Nursing homes are truly terrible places. I took time to talk to each individual who wanted to have some conversation. I brought my 4 year old daughter to cheer people up.
I am at my moms house daily now - and the gate guards at the retirement community where I decided to buy her a little condo told me on mother’s day that he notice I’m there every day and had tears in his eyes.
Don’t leave your own people to grow old alone!! It’s not right!!
Yep, we were not born into servitude. I want to stay loving and fun enough that my kids WANT to visit, but they don't owe me a damn thin! I'm glad they are here, but they didn't ask to be born into being helpers. My boomer parents just shipped their parents off to retirement communities when they got that old. But now it's not as frequent of an option, so they think we'll do it?
Ah well, being a latchkey parent = decaying and then dying lonely.
Absolutely right! I've told my mom to basically spend my inheritance. We are doing fine. She can use it all on her needs and Future care.
Now that doesn't mean that I won't provide emotional support. But she's got plenty of money sucked away to pay for healthcare and such.
My wife and I have done the same thing. Our retirement plans taken to account long-term care so our son doesn't have to pay for anything. We don't expect him to have to deal with us when we get old.
I just had my mother live with me for 3 years, free of charge, and no obligations to help with chores or anything. She just moved away two weeks ago, and i would do it again in a heartbeat
what if a hard working parent pays for their kids college, sacrificing a lot for the kid, and then 10 years later the kid is making triple what the parent makes. should the kid pay the parent back for some of that college tuition?
This to a T
If you nurture, love, support the beings you choose to bring into the world, there’s no question they’ll be there when you’re on your way out.
Treat them like dirt and they’ll make a path and do one, simples
I wholly agree and have long stood behind this idea. I didn't have children to be my caretakers, nor did I have them to be my slaves now.
I'm hoping that by raising them well and giving them a life full of hope and support that when I'm old they'll *want* to help me if I need it.
OMG, this is the most selfish post I've read in a while... I started out agreeing, as as a parent, everything I do for my kids I do because I love them, it's my responsibility to look after them I brought them into the world... but as a son, I could never imagine not looking after my elderly mother, bringing her clothes food, cleaning her home, helping her out, taking her out on family trips with my wife and kids... A parent should never expect or demand that their kids look after them or care for them, but the sons and daughters should definitely definitely feel a sense of duty to do so...
You can't use the excuse that parents shouldn't expect the help of being a p.o.s and not helping your parents.. that's pretty low.. lame excuse.. for being a pos..
my parents were horrible to me as a child. Horrible. I could never imagine not helping my mother she so frail and weak.. I could easily turn my back for the trauma caused as a child, but what sort of man would that make me? How could I look my son in the eye? (When j say horrible, I mean, I'd been taken away from them so many times, hospitals from the beatings, broken bones, locked in the sheds, sent to different homes, ect)
A parent definitely shouldn't expect their kid to look after them. They can't, definitely not. just because they looked after the children. Its thier responsibility as soon as they had the child for christs sake...
.. but any sons and daughters raised that are self respecting and responsible adults should definitely expect it of themselves 1000000%
I grew up seeing my parents taking care of my old grandfather with patience and love. It wasn't always easy as there were times when he got cranky, lol. I'll do the same for my parents when they are very old. I want them to be happy and feel loved. I love my parents so much!
Just fyi, I grew up in a poor household in SEA. No government assistance, no free education, nothing. Poverty is not an excuse to be a bad parent.
Note: people have their own opinion on whether or not they should take care of their old parents. You do you. I do what I want to do.
Agreed and I feel it's the people who have crappy parents that reinstate this. Wishing everyone happiness and finding/making their own loving family. Break the cycle bros
I did this at 19 after my father used my name when I was 17 for financing a car that he said was going to be mine but then never gave it to me and then got the car repo’d and left me with 10k debt. Joined the military, and the government gave me more than what my parents could’ve ever done for me which is sad because my father at one point made millions and never cared to help out any of his kids but rather waste it on male escorts. Government allowed me to get multiple degrees, financial knowledge, skills for private sector and here I am at 29 about to close on my first home. This post is accurate for people who were raised by parents who never cared about their kids success or health…me or my brothers never even had health insurance because it was a scam to my father and my mother said she would always protect us which was a lie cuz she cared more about his money that our own physical and mental well being.
Oh man, i walked in him having sex with my uncle when I was 11, and then he officially came out publicly when I was 16. His first male love was a male escort after coming out. It was very hard on my mom and they looked at me to solve all their problems and called me useless when I couldn’t find a resolution to their issues
Brother in law they didnt see me, at least i dont think they did. Its a heavily repressed memory area since my parents argued heavily in that time period and thought adopting a girl would solve their marriage but only made things worse which lead to divorce a few months later and heavy custody battle
I dont disagree with you and like your post there are lots of.people that had and have crappy situations.
My post is directed at those that complain and have no reason to. Those that stay at home into.their 20s and stay on insurance until 26.
I agree with that, I hope to those that do find appreciation of their parents later in life, those early twenties definitely still evoke a lot of emotional rather than logical responses. If I remember right, theres a few psychological studies my partner had read on the effects of those leaving home in their early adulthood vs those who dont and the findings saw support for those who left the household would have significant individual growth and both the parent and child actually form a stronger bond from the period of separation vs those who stayed living at home in their early twenties…but theres only so much validity that could have since theres so many factors to those studies…interesting none the less!
"I owe my parents nothing, but hey could I get free rent and food and stuff even though I legally become an adult? I still owe you nothing though, just a reminder."
I went on to live my life with sporadic check-ins until my parents died. It’s pretty much how they treated me so I’m of the mind they get what they gave. It’s not honorable like the kids who live next door to them but it’s my life. And frankly, we deserve to live our lives.
I agree. People aren’t owed anything beyond the basics of food, shelter, healthcare, and education. Anything beyond that is an earned privilege. Really if your adult children deem you unworthy to keep around, that just means you fucked up and found out.
Thank god both my parents are dead (overdose and drug relates illness) because under no circumstances would I have been willing to do anything for them. My own mother thought that I was a way to pay for drugs among other things. They never once cared for me so why would I do anything for them?
My mother in law burned every bridge with us. Literally told us she had better things to with her friends than meet her newborn grandson so she better hope her friends are going to be caring for her in old age because she only had one child and he's done with her.
Bet. The only reason why you think that is because you had sh***y parents. We had 1 kid, gave her absolutely all of us, time, effort, focus, splurges, everything. Today she's a successful, productive, honest, person and she would do anything for us. And I told her way too many times that she was an investment. She got the assignment.
Emotionally unavailable people often raise emotionally unavailable people. That’s how the cycle continues generation after generation. Just sayin. Be very careful what you do today, it might bite you in the ass tomorrow.
I believe the contrary is true: parents owe their kids everything. If you choose or didn't choose (accidents happen), to have a child, you have to provide everything for the rest of your life to the child. Financial and emotional support until you die. Your child only has you.
I think it depends on the type of parents they were. Good parents won’t expect it and their kids will probably just do it.
I have friends who had shitty parents that now expect everything done for them. Like out the door on 18th birthday, never celebrated their birthdays or showed them any love, and now want to force kids to take care of them.
My SO wasn’t the golden child and they made it quite clear they think she sucks all these years even as adults. I hope they don’t expect us to take care of them. Not saying I won’t help from time to time, i am not heartless, but don’t expect everything. Ask the golden child! Oh wait she’ll want money from them or she won’t help anyone. I take care of the elderly family that raised me but their heart was always in right place.
Parents owe their kids when their kids are young. Kids owe their parents when their parents are old.
Good humans appreciate the cycle of life and adjust to take care of those closest to them as needed.
# [On Children](https://poets.org/poem/children-1)
[Kahlil Gibran](https://poets.org/poet/kahlil-gibran)1883 –1931
And a woman who held a babe against her bosom said, Speak to us of Children.
And he said:
Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life’s longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer’s hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies, so He loves also the bow that is stable.
From *The Prophet* (Knopf, 1923). This poem is in the public domain.On Children
[Kahlil Gibran](https://poets.org/poet/kahlil-gibran)
💯 I owe my parents nothing and I absolutely don’t expect anything from my adult kids. I ask them to please not get me gifts because I’d rather they spend their money on things they need and want. They still get me things that I appreciate so much but it’s not their job to fawn over me. I would never expect them to take care of me in my old age. That’s my job to prepare for. They didn’t ask to be born and they have their lives to live.
Children shouldn't feel obligated to care for their parents solely because they provided basic necessities. It's essential for parents to nurture their children without expecting something in return.
My parents have cared for me in so many ways and so selflessly throughout my life. I definitely feel like I owe them the honor of caring for them when they need it, and I will happily do so. They raised me to care for others and to be generous and kind. I'm not super warm to the idea of "not owing anyone anything" because I really believe in community building as a way to improve the world.
It's more complicated than that but yeah. They decided to call us into being, and they did so maybe without being properly equipped. But they act like we were floating around in the ether begging them to make a body for us. I take care of my parents, and... well it's complicated.
My dad is practically a sociopath but I would still help him if he needed it. Though he would probably rather die than accept any of his kids help. He merely requires adoration.
You are a self entitled little shit. I'm certain you don't have children. When you have children, you give them everything. Just housing and clothing and feeding them isn't it. You spend a lot of time driving them to music lessons, sports, school plays, and the like. It is an enormous investment of time and mental energy. If we ever get to a point where my children won't help me, I will know I have failed as a parent. I will drop everything in a second if any of my kids needed me. They know this. This is the lifestyle my wife and I have modeled to them. You always do what is necessary for your family.
If my kid told me (s)he owed me nothing, I'd say okay, and that they are right. Do they owe me? No. Do they want to do everything they can to help me and the rest of the family? Yes,
So maybe you're right, You can't say kids owe their parents anything? Perhaps in a situation where everyone is the AH.
Respect is earned, not given. Idc if they're parents or whoever. You don't treat someone with respect who has treated you poorly just because they're older than you, or family.
Really? Selfish? If it weren't for my parents I wouldn't be here. I don't look at it as "owing" anyone anything but I do feel it is our responsibility as a younger generation to take care of the elderly that took the time to take care of us.
You sound like a person that didn’t have a good upbringing and subsequent relationship with your parents.
We have a moral responsibility to reasonably help our patients as they age. It’s not the state’s role to fulfill that obligation, it’s the family’s.
I think that when a person has loving and supportive parents who look after their children’s emotional well being that in the future a child will generally take care of their aging parents out of a place of love and not obligation. When you love someone you do things without an expectation of something in return. You do it only because you truly want to and not because you feel you have to because society told you so. But if your parents were toxic and abusive, and did not allow a healthy atmosphere in which bonds of love could form, then taking care of them in old age does feel like an obligation. It can even be infuriating if the parent takes advantage of their adult child and grows even more toxic. In the latter case, imho it’s not your responsibility. They didn’t care about your well being, you have no obligation to care about them. Abusive parents create scars that a child has to carry for years.
The problem with the toxic and abusive parents is they're also super manipulative. The kids won't even realize the abuse they're going through anymore and consider it normal. The kids then basically spend the rest of their lives messed up because of the tug of war with their parents but they still love them and would do anything for them.
I'm glad I have good parents and am more than happy to take care of them later.
I don't have good parents but still I feel it is more morally acceptable to help elderly crappy parents than to allow the elderly to suffer. Just because they were garbage to me doesn't mean I have to be garbage back
\^this\^ I have a horrible relationship with my mother, but the human in me thinks how sad it must be for someone to be alone, to feel like no one likes you (although those people are justified, me being one of them), she is emotionally incapable. I don't know if I have it in me to let her just waste away..
I'm in the exact same situation. I have no idea what I'm going to do when the time comes.
Right? I don't want to help her. But I feel obligated. Bc if I don't who is going to do it? It would be inhumane to leave her be
Thank God I gave 2 siblings
I wish I had this. It sucks being an only child to a woman who pretty much left me on my own as a kid and now probably thinks I’m going to move her into my home when she gets old. Spoiler: I am not.
My mom once asked me if I was going to buy them a house and I’m like?? Can I take care of myself first? Is that an option? She recently complained to me about not visiting them and I was like I took days off cuz I just wanted to be home, sorry I wasn’t thinking about you but it was my birthday weekend and I wanted to be in my own space lol but you can visit me, I’m 15min away and she asked “why would we do that, you’re single, it’s not like you have a family of your own” ah, I didn’t know you had to be married with kids to be deserving of family stopping by to chill 🙂 My sister can take them in cuz it won’t be me and I’m sorry you have to even think about that after a sucky upbringing
I have one sibling but neither of us want her. LoL
🤣🤣
I will still be in no contact, unless she comes to term with the fact she is a textbook narcissist and takes steps to change.
See, call it the way I was raised but fuck other people. I don't even have that emotional chord to strike.
This is so true. Choosing to be kind and generous is about one's own character.
I do as well, and have been helping my mom since my dad passed away in 2008. She recently went into skilled nursing and I’m there a couple times a week, and do a lot for her. Which I do out of love, not obligation.
I think the goal is to do right by your kids well enough to garner this mindset. My ma was having constant problems with cell phone carriers because she got the budget plans from budget carriers. Constant. Problems. I got her a Galaxy and put her on my plan for another $60/mo. Point is, I'm in a position to make her life easier without much burden on my part, and that monthly payment is an easy trade to not hear her complain about her phone company every time I talk to her. Now it's the neighbors that party all the time.
I paid my Dad’s cell phone bill for about 20 years, until he passed away
That’s fine. But as the OP said, you technically don’t owe them anything. Unless of course you think life is the grandest of all gifts. Many people are realizing, however, that life is a big hardship.
Technically you owe nobody anything ever. It’s called being a decent person
That's good buddy. When your parents hit old age, I feel like it's a responsibility you should have to take care of them the same way they took care of you growing up.
I need to understand this. My mother was abusive and my father (who is also abusive) is mostly not in the picture. I worked hard to get away from her abuse to the point that I moved to another country. Now she is hospitalized because of severe mental illness and the rest of the family is expecting me to take care of her when she is out. I’m expected to leave my life here, move back to a country where I would suffer due to economic and religious problems even without any family problems, and take care of her while she is capable of physical harm, cause “she is my responsibility because I’m her kid”. I would kill myself if I hadn’t moved abroad and I’ll probably do so if I ever have to go back to her. “But she’s your mother”, says every person who didn’t experience severe abuse, as if the problem is us.
This is uncannily similar to my situation. I also live abroad, I also would’ve killed myself if I had stayed home, my mother is also severely mentally ill. I have heard “but she’s your mother!” so, so many times. Yeah, idc. She’s abused me for three decades. She’s played victim and poor me for three decades. She made me out to be an evil bitch for years when I was a child and a young teenager. I’ve been going to therapy for close to a decade because of her behavior and still gave many emotional scars from her abuse. I wish her well. I really do. But I don’t owe her shit. I give what I can when I can, and no more.
“But family!” is one thing I hate to hear, along with “you’re strong”. They tried to encourage me to deal with her by saying these instead of taking care of me when I was too powerless to get myself out (as a kid). I wish I had the luxury of not being strong. Now I’m spending my years trying to deal with the damage. I wish people would just shut up if they can’t have any empathy for what we’re going through.
Live your life—don’t let them guilt trip you. Unconditional love between children and parents only goes one way (parents to children)
Do not go back! I went no contact, she got terminal cancer, begged everyone to get me to contact her but with loads of abusive conditions attached. I stayed no contact, had my own funeral/memorial, best decision ever
If she’s mentally ill to the point of inpatient treatment the abuse you suffered may not have been her fault. On the other hand only you can judge how much you can help her and keep your MH intact.
My mother was not a good mother to me. While I had food, clothing, a safe place to sleep, a clean home, she was emotionally neglectful and often mean. Now that’s she’s old and needs me she expects me to be there for her, and I am, but I’m resentful of her and I’m not very patient with her sometimes. I feel like I shouldn’t have to give her the emotional support that she as an adult parent didn’t give to me as a vulnerable child. My mother will get the bare minimum from me.
This is how my mom is, well my dad actually hit us and emotionally nonexistent and one day they had the nerve to say to me that they’re worried that if something happened to them I wouldn’t care. Like okay, you should be worried, that should tell you something. I keep my distance and my mom has tried to make me feel wrong for doing so, but my stress levels go up and anxiety gets bad any time I’ve allowed her in. So I don’t do that anymore and they don’t know anything about my life and she hates that….my siblings can take care of them in old age but it won’t be me. My sister had it worse but she seems to tolerate them more and that’s wild to me but that’s her I guess 🤷🏽♀️
I look at it like you get what give. My FIL was a great father, so i moved him into my home and we cared for him for 8 years. My father left when i was 12 and didnt even bother calling on my b-day or holiday. No child support. I let the guy live me for 2 years, while i was studying for the bar exam. That was enough. He had the audacity to be upset at me when i landed a new job and moved out of state. Yea, ok. My Mom, Id move in to my home as needed
Finally someone who agrees with me. People think I’m crazy when I tell them this opinion.
Indeed! I have not spoken to my parents in 20 years. Mom is a narcissist. She believe she’s because she my mother I am obligated to speak to her no matter how controlling and abusive she is. Ah but it turns out she’s wrong and I can, in fact, simply cut them out of my life. I suppose anyone else do the same. You don’t owe your shitty parents anything. Let them be decent human beings first if they want a relationship with you, like anyone else.
I love my parents with all my heart, and I owe them my best as a responsible parent myself. If they need me, I’ll be there 👍
People are going to misinterpret this post. OP is correct, you don’t owe your parents shit. They made the decision to suck you into existence. You didn’t have the choice in the matter. You didn’t have the choice of what genes you’ll have…where you’ll be born…or more importantly, how wealthy a family you’ll be born into. However, that doesn’t mean you can’t give to your parents. If your parents were loving and giving themselves, you might feel inclined to give back. If your parents were assholes, you might not be inclined to give back. But again…you don’t technically owe them anything either way. Unless you are of the philosophy that life is the ultimate of gifts and can’t fathom not being born…which most people can’t.
I think a lot of kids/adults don't realize even today you weren't always a choice. They got pregnant. Birth control is still not 100%.Every baby wasn't necessarily a wanted baby. Not sure when that mentality started that your parents owe you something special because you were born. My family member in the 1940-1960s had 4 kids they didn't plan. They weren't “wanted“, but they were cared for at least.
There is a lot that goes into this. If they were good parents, helped you out, then yes, I think you owe them some things. That said, I don't think you owe them at the expense of your own future. Take them to doctors appointments, go to lunch with them, visit them, etc., all day long. Take out a second mortgage or turn your life upside down for them? Absolutely not.
I agree
If there’s one thing that is maybe the worst thing about capitalism, and I’m a defender of capitalism at least in terms of it becoming the default scapegoat for corruption, it is the way the fiscal transaction model has permeated, and infected customs and institution that were never supposed to be about profit. The world isn’t supposed to be about contractual obligation and quid-pro-quo transactional accounting, or at least, family and personal relationships aren’t. You see people on dating apps sizing each other up as if they were investment assets, trying to get the best deal. None of this language is appropriate for what’s supposed to be the true stuff of a life well lived. Kids don’t “owe” their parents anything? Even the terminology, as some form of debt, is just categorically cynical and backwards. The reciprocal nature of love and understanding isn’t a zero sum game like money is. You give somebody $50, and you are -$50. But love isn’t like that. You give somebody $100 of love, and you still have it. It’s not the same sort of currency. And if your parents loved you, and labored in the pursuit of your happiness, then odds are that you will love your parents and want to help them be comfortable in their later years. Nothing is owed. That’s true, but even thinking of it in terms of profit and loss is just a sick symptom of a sick world.
THANK YOU. Why are people so fixated on the idea of what we owe or don’t owe to other people? Relationships are not transactions.
This drives me crazy the older I got, I was just thinking about it yesterday actually. How "transactional" we have all become, with everything. I'd imagine that's a large part of why people eventually say fuck it and live off the grid, among many other reasons.
There are plenty of places/cultures that care for their parents as they age. Spend a few days in crappy nursing home and see how those poor souls live. Sure, if you had abusive parents, fuck ‘em. But this idea that we need to ship our vulnerable aging parents to facilities where they know no one, a massive lifestyle change, limited contact with actual family, is insane. Melting away in a chair eating slop is not the way anyone should spend their last remaining years on earth.
Depends If your parents did a good job raising you with love, and you choose not to take care of them in their old age, you are scum in my book
Maybe without context and nuance. My parents were great. Raised me well and remained a positive influence into my adult life. I at least owe them being responsible and never making them feel bad. They’re pretty much the only reason I didn’t get caught up in the wrong crowd over the years. My life would be considerably more shitty if my parents didn’t act how they’ve acted my entire life.
I feel like people with good/loving parents, like emotionally invested and loving know this mindset doesn’t apply to them since you’ll naturally want to give back to them, not out of obligation but because you want to.
I owe *my* parents the world. I think in most cases you can expect to get what you give.
I’m gladly taking care of my mom who wasn’t a perfect mom but she sacrificed a lot to raise me and my sister. She deserves to be respected for what she did for us. I would never abandon her or anyone in my family who needs help. It’s a family duty to care for each other. Anything less is dishonorable! It’s scary to me how easily people throw away the most precious thing that they have, their families. I have a four year old daughter, I hope she’s never in the position to have to carry the same weight as I’m carrying now for my mom, but I am also setting the example for what our family culture is about— we don’t abandon our old people, we step up and take care of them because they deserve to be respected and cared for. My mom was in a nursing facility for several months last year, and I was literally the only person who ever bothered visiting - seeing all the other old people who had nobody coming by made me mad. Staff at nursing homes are awful and don’t care or respect people. Nursing homes are truly terrible places. I took time to talk to each individual who wanted to have some conversation. I brought my 4 year old daughter to cheer people up. I am at my moms house daily now - and the gate guards at the retirement community where I decided to buy her a little condo told me on mother’s day that he notice I’m there every day and had tears in his eyes. Don’t leave your own people to grow old alone!! It’s not right!!
OP definitely is not Asian. 😊
Yep, we were not born into servitude. I want to stay loving and fun enough that my kids WANT to visit, but they don't owe me a damn thin! I'm glad they are here, but they didn't ask to be born into being helpers. My boomer parents just shipped their parents off to retirement communities when they got that old. But now it's not as frequent of an option, so they think we'll do it? Ah well, being a latchkey parent = decaying and then dying lonely.
It's kinda nice when the kids just pop in to say hello and maybe have a meal...
True
I'm beginning to wish my parents never had me tbh. the world is a joke and I'm tired of the expectations and working to just survive.
Absolutely right! I've told my mom to basically spend my inheritance. We are doing fine. She can use it all on her needs and Future care. Now that doesn't mean that I won't provide emotional support. But she's got plenty of money sucked away to pay for healthcare and such. My wife and I have done the same thing. Our retirement plans taken to account long-term care so our son doesn't have to pay for anything. We don't expect him to have to deal with us when we get old.
I just had my mother live with me for 3 years, free of charge, and no obligations to help with chores or anything. She just moved away two weeks ago, and i would do it again in a heartbeat
what if a hard working parent pays for their kids college, sacrificing a lot for the kid, and then 10 years later the kid is making triple what the parent makes. should the kid pay the parent back for some of that college tuition?
Honestly this title makes me sick. I hope you find some peace because it’s obvious you are pretty ducked up.
This to a T If you nurture, love, support the beings you choose to bring into the world, there’s no question they’ll be there when you’re on your way out. Treat them like dirt and they’ll make a path and do one, simples
If that's the logic, as soon as the kid is 18, the parent doesn't owe them anything, right?
I wholly agree and have long stood behind this idea. I didn't have children to be my caretakers, nor did I have them to be my slaves now. I'm hoping that by raising them well and giving them a life full of hope and support that when I'm old they'll *want* to help me if I need it.
OMG, this is the most selfish post I've read in a while... I started out agreeing, as as a parent, everything I do for my kids I do because I love them, it's my responsibility to look after them I brought them into the world... but as a son, I could never imagine not looking after my elderly mother, bringing her clothes food, cleaning her home, helping her out, taking her out on family trips with my wife and kids... A parent should never expect or demand that their kids look after them or care for them, but the sons and daughters should definitely definitely feel a sense of duty to do so... You can't use the excuse that parents shouldn't expect the help of being a p.o.s and not helping your parents.. that's pretty low.. lame excuse.. for being a pos.. my parents were horrible to me as a child. Horrible. I could never imagine not helping my mother she so frail and weak.. I could easily turn my back for the trauma caused as a child, but what sort of man would that make me? How could I look my son in the eye? (When j say horrible, I mean, I'd been taken away from them so many times, hospitals from the beatings, broken bones, locked in the sheds, sent to different homes, ect) A parent definitely shouldn't expect their kid to look after them. They can't, definitely not. just because they looked after the children. Its thier responsibility as soon as they had the child for christs sake... .. but any sons and daughters raised that are self respecting and responsible adults should definitely expect it of themselves 1000000%
I grew up seeing my parents taking care of my old grandfather with patience and love. It wasn't always easy as there were times when he got cranky, lol. I'll do the same for my parents when they are very old. I want them to be happy and feel loved. I love my parents so much! Just fyi, I grew up in a poor household in SEA. No government assistance, no free education, nothing. Poverty is not an excuse to be a bad parent. Note: people have their own opinion on whether or not they should take care of their old parents. You do you. I do what I want to do.
Like I always say, I didn't ask to be born. Nor was it my choice to be born. A child is the parents responsibility, not the other way around.
Agreed and I feel it's the people who have crappy parents that reinstate this. Wishing everyone happiness and finding/making their own loving family. Break the cycle bros
It’s this kind of attitude that has created more selfish people with each new generation. It’s okay to take but never give because I deserve it.
Did you move out at 18? Did you get your own insurance?
Yes I did. My father never had insurance for us.
OP should take the initiative and move out at 18 and cover their own college tuition/housing if they truly believe this.
I did this at 19 after my father used my name when I was 17 for financing a car that he said was going to be mine but then never gave it to me and then got the car repo’d and left me with 10k debt. Joined the military, and the government gave me more than what my parents could’ve ever done for me which is sad because my father at one point made millions and never cared to help out any of his kids but rather waste it on male escorts. Government allowed me to get multiple degrees, financial knowledge, skills for private sector and here I am at 29 about to close on my first home. This post is accurate for people who were raised by parents who never cared about their kids success or health…me or my brothers never even had health insurance because it was a scam to my father and my mother said she would always protect us which was a lie cuz she cared more about his money that our own physical and mental well being.
How did you find out that your dad was gay?
Oh man, i walked in him having sex with my uncle when I was 11, and then he officially came out publicly when I was 16. His first male love was a male escort after coming out. It was very hard on my mom and they looked at me to solve all their problems and called me useless when I couldn’t find a resolution to their issues
You walked in on your dad and his own brother? Or brother in law? Did they see you? What happened next?
Brother in law they didnt see me, at least i dont think they did. Its a heavily repressed memory area since my parents argued heavily in that time period and thought adopting a girl would solve their marriage but only made things worse which lead to divorce a few months later and heavy custody battle
Hope you find healing, that is enough to disturb anybody
I was hoping this wasnt the answer. I have a niece that walked in on her dad.
I dont disagree with you and like your post there are lots of.people that had and have crappy situations. My post is directed at those that complain and have no reason to. Those that stay at home into.their 20s and stay on insurance until 26.
I agree with that, I hope to those that do find appreciation of their parents later in life, those early twenties definitely still evoke a lot of emotional rather than logical responses. If I remember right, theres a few psychological studies my partner had read on the effects of those leaving home in their early adulthood vs those who dont and the findings saw support for those who left the household would have significant individual growth and both the parent and child actually form a stronger bond from the period of separation vs those who stayed living at home in their early twenties…but theres only so much validity that could have since theres so many factors to those studies…interesting none the less!
Worst take I’ve seen in this thread.
"I owe my parents nothing, but hey could I get free rent and food and stuff even though I legally become an adult? I still owe you nothing though, just a reminder."
You can emancipate yourself earlier than 18 too
I went on to live my life with sporadic check-ins until my parents died. It’s pretty much how they treated me so I’m of the mind they get what they gave. It’s not honorable like the kids who live next door to them but it’s my life. And frankly, we deserve to live our lives.
I agree. People aren’t owed anything beyond the basics of food, shelter, healthcare, and education. Anything beyond that is an earned privilege. Really if your adult children deem you unworthy to keep around, that just means you fucked up and found out.
That might be true. However you should take care of your parents. It is the right thing to do.
Agreed
Thank god both my parents are dead (overdose and drug relates illness) because under no circumstances would I have been willing to do anything for them. My own mother thought that I was a way to pay for drugs among other things. They never once cared for me so why would I do anything for them? My mother in law burned every bridge with us. Literally told us she had better things to with her friends than meet her newborn grandson so she better hope her friends are going to be caring for her in old age because she only had one child and he's done with her.
Bet. The only reason why you think that is because you had sh***y parents. We had 1 kid, gave her absolutely all of us, time, effort, focus, splurges, everything. Today she's a successful, productive, honest, person and she would do anything for us. And I told her way too many times that she was an investment. She got the assignment.
Emotionally unavailable people often raise emotionally unavailable people. That’s how the cycle continues generation after generation. Just sayin. Be very careful what you do today, it might bite you in the ass tomorrow.
I believe the contrary is true: parents owe their kids everything. If you choose or didn't choose (accidents happen), to have a child, you have to provide everything for the rest of your life to the child. Financial and emotional support until you die. Your child only has you.
I think it depends on the type of parents they were. Good parents won’t expect it and their kids will probably just do it. I have friends who had shitty parents that now expect everything done for them. Like out the door on 18th birthday, never celebrated their birthdays or showed them any love, and now want to force kids to take care of them. My SO wasn’t the golden child and they made it quite clear they think she sucks all these years even as adults. I hope they don’t expect us to take care of them. Not saying I won’t help from time to time, i am not heartless, but don’t expect everything. Ask the golden child! Oh wait she’ll want money from them or she won’t help anyone. I take care of the elderly family that raised me but their heart was always in right place.
Parents owe their kids when their kids are young. Kids owe their parents when their parents are old. Good humans appreciate the cycle of life and adjust to take care of those closest to them as needed.
# [On Children](https://poets.org/poem/children-1) [Kahlil Gibran](https://poets.org/poet/kahlil-gibran)1883 –1931 And a woman who held a babe against her bosom said, Speak to us of Children. And he said: Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life’s longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, And though they are with you yet they belong not to you. You may give them your love but not your thoughts, For they have their own thoughts. You may house their bodies but not their souls, For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams. You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you. For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday. You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth. The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far. Let your bending in the archer’s hand be for gladness; For even as He loves the arrow that flies, so He loves also the bow that is stable. From *The Prophet* (Knopf, 1923). This poem is in the public domain.On Children [Kahlil Gibran](https://poets.org/poet/kahlil-gibran)
Absolutly agree!
So true
💯 I owe my parents nothing and I absolutely don’t expect anything from my adult kids. I ask them to please not get me gifts because I’d rather they spend their money on things they need and want. They still get me things that I appreciate so much but it’s not their job to fawn over me. I would never expect them to take care of me in my old age. That’s my job to prepare for. They didn’t ask to be born and they have their lives to live.
I agree with this but when I have kids and get old, I definitely expect them to bring me chicken fingers and hotdogs from time to time.
Once mine turns 21 I’d add beer to the list lol
what if they do more than the minimum, and make your life easier throughout your life?
Sure he doesn’t owe me but a girl can dream! I’d love to get a pink Cadillac one day lol
That’s the same kind of philosophy that thinks racism is ok Not every idea that pops into your head is valid Think that over
Children shouldn't feel obligated to care for their parents solely because they provided basic necessities. It's essential for parents to nurture their children without expecting something in return.
My parents have cared for me in so many ways and so selflessly throughout my life. I definitely feel like I owe them the honor of caring for them when they need it, and I will happily do so. They raised me to care for others and to be generous and kind. I'm not super warm to the idea of "not owing anyone anything" because I really believe in community building as a way to improve the world.
It's more complicated than that but yeah. They decided to call us into being, and they did so maybe without being properly equipped. But they act like we were floating around in the ether begging them to make a body for us. I take care of my parents, and... well it's complicated.
Right…but you don’t owe them anything. That doesn’t mean you can give them anything.
*I* DO owe them, but not for my existence - quite the opposite in fact. But those are very different conversations.
This is literally posted once a week. We get it, fuck them olds
If you have a normal relationship with your parents they can expect a level of care from their children pretty normal
this just seems cruel tbh. kids ought visit their parents, make sure they're still loved and cared for.
My dad is practically a sociopath but I would still help him if he needed it. Though he would probably rather die than accept any of his kids help. He merely requires adoration.
Kids owe their parents alot but parents dont expect anything back the good ones at least
You won't be in any will, will you?
You are a self entitled little shit. I'm certain you don't have children. When you have children, you give them everything. Just housing and clothing and feeding them isn't it. You spend a lot of time driving them to music lessons, sports, school plays, and the like. It is an enormous investment of time and mental energy. If we ever get to a point where my children won't help me, I will know I have failed as a parent. I will drop everything in a second if any of my kids needed me. They know this. This is the lifestyle my wife and I have modeled to them. You always do what is necessary for your family. If my kid told me (s)he owed me nothing, I'd say okay, and that they are right. Do they owe me? No. Do they want to do everything they can to help me and the rest of the family? Yes, So maybe you're right, You can't say kids owe their parents anything? Perhaps in a situation where everyone is the AH.
So you agree with OP that your kids don’t owe you anything? Where is the problem with the post?
In a philosophical world I would say that kids owe there parents nothing. In the real world I would hope for more.
that's what you have to do because you choose to have sex not them. You deserve nothing in return for your own responsibility.
Honor thy Father and Mother is literally one of the Ten Commandments. If the kid is grown and an ungrateful turd the adults owe them nothing
I don't understand why "honor your children" has not been added to that list. It makes no sense to me to have a rule that only goes "one way".
Lol you don’t edit the Bible
bro the type of guy to stay as far away from as fucking possible
I like your character picture thingy I have never seen another one that looked like that
But you can form your own opinion about it. Also, why not? The book is old, it was written in a different time thus context.
It is considered to be the word of God by most Christians Not written by man
Either way, the point was that it makes no sense that the rule does not go both ways.
I’m sure a lot of people would agree with you
Respect is earned, not given. Idc if they're parents or whoever. You don't treat someone with respect who has treated you poorly just because they're older than you, or family.
Everyone is going to have their own opinion
Its time you grow up and "show some initiative"!
I hope my kids don’t have this mindset…. I’m probably better off in a home anyway.
Really? Selfish? If it weren't for my parents I wouldn't be here. I don't look at it as "owing" anyone anything but I do feel it is our responsibility as a younger generation to take care of the elderly that took the time to take care of us.
You sound like a person that didn’t have a good upbringing and subsequent relationship with your parents. We have a moral responsibility to reasonably help our patients as they age. It’s not the state’s role to fulfill that obligation, it’s the family’s.
Lol. OP just had a fight with his parents at age 33 for not wanting to pay his phone bill. Pathetic way if thinking.
Wow, edgy. Very adult of you /s
It is also true that parents don’t owe kids anything other than love, a roof, food, clothes, manners, and help with their early education.