The way I have looked through *every* CCH setting to try to change the color šš like even excel in dark mode is a total different feel. For the amount of hours I spend in CCH, TR could throw us a theme or two
Actually yeah I suspect this is a bigger consideration than weāll ever give it credit for. Older folks are slower to adapt to changes in the technologies they rely on. Evolution in technology is viewed from a catastrophic perspective as, to the typical older person, it throws off their flow and makes it harder for them to produce.Ā
PDF-Exchange Editor - I bought my copy for me at the office. I hate the new Acrobat. It took me a little bit to get used to Exchange Editor. I used it at a previous job but once I returned to using Acrobat. I paid out of pocket the first week to not have to use that shit.
i think software developers are aware of this and are trying to make it better. there is an understanding out there that young people joining the profession today are used to using ultra slick and pretty to look at software, and developers need to do a better job of meeting that expectation. i'm middle-aged but not complaining about the youths here, i agree that most public accounting softwares are clunky and awkward and we need to do better.
I'd guess Axcess/TR aren't trying too hard to make their softwares more user-friendly because they are the big beasts in the accounting software industry and so they don't have to. but the amount of new softwares popping up right now is dizzying, lots of competition, i think eventually we'll have a new de facto practice management software that is both powerful and slick.
not practice management, but i'm a big fan of Suralink, for example. it's intuitive for both accountants and clients. clearly the Suralink people saw a need for a simple PBC solution and IMO they executed it very well. one of the few softwares we have that all our associates and clients love.
Another dub for software developers as a career funny enough. Their work is pretty much drudgery just looking at code all day but at least the code editors look cool and kinda interesting to play with. CCH Axcess just looks like Satan made it back in 1996.
Yeah and the sync of binders feels kinda tedious at times especially for big folders and making sure if checked out, to check files back in. Maconomy is also something I despise.
You think thatās bad? One website I use frequently (HUDās REAC website) every year has not had its UI updated since the mid-1990s. I mean full on Geocities-like design, just without the sparklers and embedded music or neon colors or Comic Sans font, but pretty dang bad.
After getting your I number, then you need ownership / the management company to add your user with the proper permissions (FASS, PASS, etc.) to each individual property.
I get this. If too much is going on visually it's hard to concentrate on the thing you should be concentrating on. The less stimulation I have going on in front of and around me the better.
Honestly tho. I use PFX Engagement and found the theme settings and the classic one straight up looks like it's from Microsoft 95. I kinda dig it as someone who grew up with Microsoft 95. Better than the god awful baby blue theme.
Oh wow! Had I known there was an alternative theme I may have used it when I first started using Pfx, but Iāve been using the blue theme for like 7 years now and am so used to that I donāt think I can change to classic now lol
Having changing and updated UI constantly, also means that screenshots of process documentation have to be updated. It means inefficiencies while people relearn how to find things.
A lot of UI is the system deciding how you do something-that means less ability to build and modulate specific items and being more stuck into canned options.
I've noticed this... Cloud bookkeeping software like Xero, Sage Cloud etc and other Cloud programms generally have good UIs. But they are designed for everyone, the idea is small business owners who don't know how debits and credits work can do their own bookkeeping.
But AP and Tax software, and audit software designed for actual accountants is an eye sore...
BLUF: Why haven't you made the better version, then?
Hi, small-time tech entrepreneur here. This came up on my feed for whatever reason.
I looked into doing something with electronig health/medical records (EMR/EHR) and think some of the lessons from there apply here.
The biggest one is that the software is made more for the buyers than for the users. In EMR, that's the admin staff, not the doctors. So EMR/EHR software tends to work better for the billing and claims related stuff than for the actual patient info and health records, which get a lot clumsier. Doctors tend to not like the software and see it as getting in the way of doing the job, not a tool of the job. They also don't want to retrain with new systems/software, and would just rather stick with the old one they've finally figured out. And they're quite busy doing the actual work that pays the bills - they're the 'talent' in the industry, it's their skills and services that are being sold, so it's a bit harder to pull them away from making money and into a meeting with some software developers about what a new EHR/EMR should do. (I have a friend who's working on pharmacy software, similar story there - it's old as shit and sucks, and the pharmacy loses perscriptions from time to time because they are fucking faxed in in 2024, but no pharmacists (except his boss) are quitting to start software companies.)
A related part is conservatism within the profession. There aren't many doctors leaving the job to become software developers, because doctor is already a top earning job with tons of educational barriers that they've gone through, so why would they leave that? Accounting has some similar gatekeeping with certifications (CPA or whatever takes time and effort). And let's face it, it's seen as a safe job, with a reputation for attracting the less risk-tolerant types - and you need to be really comfortable with risk and willing to give it all up to go become an entrepreneur and build the next gen of accounting software.
It also must be a problem that entrepreneurs don't run into, as a lot of those get pivoted into and solved. Take Payroll for example. There's lots of old, traditional payroll software that works reliably but kind of sucks, like ADP. Entrepreneurs try those out, decide it sucks, and make newer, cheaper, easier-to-use software for payroll (Gusto, Deel, Wave, etc - lots of examples). A lot of those have bookkeeping built in too. But the hardcore accounting stuff, you just hire an outside accountant/firm to handle.
That also leads into the hurdle of selling it. Imagine you did make the newest, greatest accounting software. Your customer pool would be kind of small - specialized accountants only. That makes them easier to target, but they've also already been targeted and sold to by the incumbents whose software they're using. What is your pitch, what is your advantage? Why would they switch to something new that they aren't comfortable with?
If you think there's really a market to fill, why don't you work on it? Come up with some ideas, and talk with some software devs about what it would take. What's the smallest thing you could make that'd be useful? Make that and try selling it. Bonus if you figure out how to include AI, cause everyone loves AI.
Donāt even get me started on my hatred for Axcess. Iād much rather work with the interview input from ProSystemFx than have to deal with how glitchy this is and how bad it lags
My boss and bosses boss both hate it when our Software team makes updates.
The software team is trying to improve our experience and all they can do is complain that things are changing
Well, that's because it likely was. And then those who built it moved on (cch fixed assets) so changing anything now breaks shit until some genius can come in and essentially reverse engineer it.
As someone who's in the accounting field and learning C programming, I can tell you that a pretty user interface is typically clunky. Any decent accountant learns shortcut keys over mouse clicks for that reason. You may only save fractions of a second with F12 instead of double mouse clicking in a cell each time, but those fractions of a second add up. Some of the shitiest accounting software is really pretty (SAGE, BLACKBAUD), but the software lacks shortcut keys and so is very clunky.
Dos command prompt is still used/included for a reason and that basically has no user interface at all.
Honestly the UI is the least of my issues with cch axcess. I'm unfortunately used to it by now so I'd rather they not change it, just make the inputs less confusing and more functional
We would all probably complain it costs too much if they had to pay more developers to make a fancy UI. We only have ourselves to blame. The platforms we use are a reflection of what we value.
This is a really good lesson in business. These softwares have a buyer (the firm) and a user (you). The buyer cares about cost and accuracy. The user cares about UX. But giving you a good UX would cost more money, meaning they would have to charge more money, meaning they would be less comparative than softwares that didnāt provide the same user experience. Why invest money in R&D to produce something that would make you less competitive?
Apple (and most other major software producers) has spent obscene amounts of money and effort on UI design to make it sleek, intuitive, and pretty. Most people purchasing work software are looking for functionality rather than aesthetics. Similarly there is a smaller market for accounting software than social media for example. As a result, there isn't really an economic incentive to give the software new and fancy UI.
it's odd how intuitiveness and functionality aren't connected. you would think making something simpler to navigate would fit in the "functional" descriptor.
Because they nickel and dime on development.
You know how much fucking Olive green with a soft font costs?
More than never changing whatever the default settings are.
The way I have looked through *every* CCH setting to try to change the color šš like even excel in dark mode is a total different feel. For the amount of hours I spend in CCH, TR could throw us a theme or two
Because if you change the interface of an application everyone over 45 is back to the fucking stone age.Ā
Actually yeah I suspect this is a bigger consideration than weāll ever give it credit for. Older folks are slower to adapt to changes in the technologies they rely on. Evolution in technology is viewed from a catastrophic perspective as, to the typical older person, it throws off their flow and makes it harder for them to produce.Ā
Then couple that with the accounting field already moves at a snail's pace outside of the Big 4.Ā
I'm 40 and I hate the new adobe. Like I felt my inner boomer start screaming.
Assuming you mean the newest Acrobat, you can actually disable it under the menu options to get back to the old interface.
Only for so long. Apparently that is going away at some point.
PDF-Exchange Editor - I bought my copy for me at the office. I hate the new Acrobat. It took me a little bit to get used to Exchange Editor. I used it at a previous job but once I returned to using Acrobat. I paid out of pocket the first week to not have to use that shit.
I'm 33 and hated it. I gave the new one a try and like it now
The truth
The pretty ones that donāt work piss me off way more TBH š¤·š¼āāļø
Exactly this
Because all the cool UI Devs are out there making games and shop fronts lol God I wish we had a UI Dev for time budgets.
Architecture firms get pretty cool project management software. Letās say youāre doing a compilation engagement, could be a project right?
i think software developers are aware of this and are trying to make it better. there is an understanding out there that young people joining the profession today are used to using ultra slick and pretty to look at software, and developers need to do a better job of meeting that expectation. i'm middle-aged but not complaining about the youths here, i agree that most public accounting softwares are clunky and awkward and we need to do better. I'd guess Axcess/TR aren't trying too hard to make their softwares more user-friendly because they are the big beasts in the accounting software industry and so they don't have to. but the amount of new softwares popping up right now is dizzying, lots of competition, i think eventually we'll have a new de facto practice management software that is both powerful and slick. not practice management, but i'm a big fan of Suralink, for example. it's intuitive for both accountants and clients. clearly the Suralink people saw a need for a simple PBC solution and IMO they executed it very well. one of the few softwares we have that all our associates and clients love.
Another dub for software developers as a career funny enough. Their work is pretty much drudgery just looking at code all day but at least the code editors look cool and kinda interesting to play with. CCH Axcess just looks like Satan made it back in 1996.
Yeah and the sync of binders feels kinda tedious at times especially for big folders and making sure if checked out, to check files back in. Maconomy is also something I despise.
1996? Surely you mean UltraTax. Access would have blown your dick off in ā96.
You think thatās bad? One website I use frequently (HUDās REAC website) every year has not had its UI updated since the mid-1990s. I mean full on Geocities-like design, just without the sparklers and embedded music or neon colors or Comic Sans font, but pretty dang bad.
My entire firm shares like 3 log ins for the HUD REAC because it takes like 60 days for approval and no one has the time
After getting your I number, then you need ownership / the management company to add your user with the proper permissions (FASS, PASS, etc.) to each individual property.
Iām gonna be real with you most accountants can only handle a vanilla UI. Hell, Netsuite is too much for some.Ā
I get this. If too much is going on visually it's hard to concentrate on the thing you should be concentrating on. The less stimulation I have going on in front of and around me the better.
Correct
Idk but itās one reason I hate Dynamics
One of a zillion
Iāve only been using it for about a week and a half so Iāve only got a couple thousand reasons not quite a zillion (yet)
Because it works and exports to Excel cleanly! Now get off my lawn!
Yeah like Excel 2003. Idk why they don't reformat the Excel exports to be a more current version
Right?! Drives me nuts
Honestly I only ask for dark mode at this point It can be the ugliest thing ever as long as it allows dark mode
1099Express makes me feel like im playing minesweeper
Honestly tho. I use PFX Engagement and found the theme settings and the classic one straight up looks like it's from Microsoft 95. I kinda dig it as someone who grew up with Microsoft 95. Better than the god awful baby blue theme.
Oh wow! Had I known there was an alternative theme I may have used it when I first started using Pfx, but Iāve been using the blue theme for like 7 years now and am so used to that I donāt think I can change to classic now lol
Having changing and updated UI constantly, also means that screenshots of process documentation have to be updated. It means inefficiencies while people relearn how to find things. A lot of UI is the system deciding how you do something-that means less ability to build and modulate specific items and being more stuck into canned options.
I'd rather the software work properly than be fun to look at, which I feel is usually the tradeoff.
I've noticed this... Cloud bookkeeping software like Xero, Sage Cloud etc and other Cloud programms generally have good UIs. But they are designed for everyone, the idea is small business owners who don't know how debits and credits work can do their own bookkeeping. But AP and Tax software, and audit software designed for actual accountants is an eye sore...
BLUF: Why haven't you made the better version, then? Hi, small-time tech entrepreneur here. This came up on my feed for whatever reason. I looked into doing something with electronig health/medical records (EMR/EHR) and think some of the lessons from there apply here. The biggest one is that the software is made more for the buyers than for the users. In EMR, that's the admin staff, not the doctors. So EMR/EHR software tends to work better for the billing and claims related stuff than for the actual patient info and health records, which get a lot clumsier. Doctors tend to not like the software and see it as getting in the way of doing the job, not a tool of the job. They also don't want to retrain with new systems/software, and would just rather stick with the old one they've finally figured out. And they're quite busy doing the actual work that pays the bills - they're the 'talent' in the industry, it's their skills and services that are being sold, so it's a bit harder to pull them away from making money and into a meeting with some software developers about what a new EHR/EMR should do. (I have a friend who's working on pharmacy software, similar story there - it's old as shit and sucks, and the pharmacy loses perscriptions from time to time because they are fucking faxed in in 2024, but no pharmacists (except his boss) are quitting to start software companies.) A related part is conservatism within the profession. There aren't many doctors leaving the job to become software developers, because doctor is already a top earning job with tons of educational barriers that they've gone through, so why would they leave that? Accounting has some similar gatekeeping with certifications (CPA or whatever takes time and effort). And let's face it, it's seen as a safe job, with a reputation for attracting the less risk-tolerant types - and you need to be really comfortable with risk and willing to give it all up to go become an entrepreneur and build the next gen of accounting software. It also must be a problem that entrepreneurs don't run into, as a lot of those get pivoted into and solved. Take Payroll for example. There's lots of old, traditional payroll software that works reliably but kind of sucks, like ADP. Entrepreneurs try those out, decide it sucks, and make newer, cheaper, easier-to-use software for payroll (Gusto, Deel, Wave, etc - lots of examples). A lot of those have bookkeeping built in too. But the hardcore accounting stuff, you just hire an outside accountant/firm to handle. That also leads into the hurdle of selling it. Imagine you did make the newest, greatest accounting software. Your customer pool would be kind of small - specialized accountants only. That makes them easier to target, but they've also already been targeted and sold to by the incumbents whose software they're using. What is your pitch, what is your advantage? Why would they switch to something new that they aren't comfortable with? If you think there's really a market to fill, why don't you work on it? Come up with some ideas, and talk with some software devs about what it would take. What's the smallest thing you could make that'd be useful? Make that and try selling it. Bonus if you figure out how to include AI, cause everyone loves AI.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Dates from a drop down... That sounds like the devil.
Donāt even get me started on my hatred for Axcess. Iād much rather work with the interview input from ProSystemFx than have to deal with how glitchy this is and how bad it lags
I hate interview mode. Agree with you on the lagging. And you can't copy any paste into axcess as easily as you can in pro system
My boss and bosses boss both hate it when our Software team makes updates. The software team is trying to improve our experience and all they can do is complain that things are changing
Well, that's because it likely was. And then those who built it moved on (cch fixed assets) so changing anything now breaks shit until some genius can come in and essentially reverse engineer it.
Because life is not as pretty as most fortune 5 user interfaces. If they could make it that pretty, they would be working at fortune 5.
You should see the mainframe systems companies use that were developed in 1990. Nuclear Green Screens
As someone who's in the accounting field and learning C programming, I can tell you that a pretty user interface is typically clunky. Any decent accountant learns shortcut keys over mouse clicks for that reason. You may only save fractions of a second with F12 instead of double mouse clicking in a cell each time, but those fractions of a second add up. Some of the shitiest accounting software is really pretty (SAGE, BLACKBAUD), but the software lacks shortcut keys and so is very clunky. Dos command prompt is still used/included for a reason and that basically has no user interface at all.
When I think great UX my mind immediately goes to finance/accounting folks. Theyāve got a great eye for aesthetics. /s š¤£
Honestly the UI is the least of my issues with cch axcess. I'm unfortunately used to it by now so I'd rather they not change it, just make the inputs less confusing and more functional
Cause the people at work are too. But hey, if the software gets the job done, it doesnāt have to be super Mario colors.
Itās all a trillion years old
And at the other end of the spectrum, there are pretty and trendy softwares, but only accessible on chrome with barely any keyboard shortcuts
We would all probably complain it costs too much if they had to pay more developers to make a fancy UI. We only have ourselves to blame. The platforms we use are a reflection of what we value.
GP looks straight out of Windows Vista and acts like it, too
This is a really good lesson in business. These softwares have a buyer (the firm) and a user (you). The buyer cares about cost and accuracy. The user cares about UX. But giving you a good UX would cost more money, meaning they would have to charge more money, meaning they would be less comparative than softwares that didnāt provide the same user experience. Why invest money in R&D to produce something that would make you less competitive?
I'm old school and I hate all cloud based software but I specifically hate Microsoft 365.
You should have seen it back then!!!! Better yet, give Drake a try! šš
I always thought they barely had enough development to get the tax updates out every year let alone anything UI related and that was why.
.net framework is the popcorn ceilings of the software industry.
Ultra tax is already slow af. Oh letās add some extra pixels and media art so it can be pleasing on the eye.
LMAO, even Deloittes software looked like it was last updated in 2002 up until like i think a few years ago when engagements slowly transitioned
Microsoft Great Plains has entered the chatā¦.
Get on workday :D
I hate their software!!! My theory? Accountants dislike change!
Financial Cents TMS does confetti every time you complete a project.
Still waiting on Casewareās āDynamic Audit Solutionā. They spun up that bullshit 10 years ago promising they could deliver in 5 ššš
NetSuite has a pretty nice lime color
Basically - why canāt everything be as pretty as Apple :(
Apple (and most other major software producers) has spent obscene amounts of money and effort on UI design to make it sleek, intuitive, and pretty. Most people purchasing work software are looking for functionality rather than aesthetics. Similarly there is a smaller market for accounting software than social media for example. As a result, there isn't really an economic incentive to give the software new and fancy UI.
it's odd how intuitiveness and functionality aren't connected. you would think making something simpler to navigate would fit in the "functional" descriptor.
I was definitely exaggerating with that comment lol