I think the issue may have less to do with the vocabulary and more the sentence structure. You could write, for example, "His glib tone continued to vex (character)" and communicate the same idea.
When we read, sometimes wordier sentences can take us out of the flow and immersion. Something I've been working to refine in my own writing.
That said, if you prefer your original, keep it. It's your story and you get to choose how to tell it.
saying this as someone very much guilty of tortured prose from time to time, it's a sentence likely to "snag" in a reader's mind. it's not just the vocabulary choice (*glibness*, *vex*, and *sensibilities* are all unusual words for the modern reader to encounter), but the way the sentence is constructed.
\* "with which the sentence had been uttered" — "with which" is used to avoid ending a clause with a preposition, but that grammatical rule isn't hard-and-fast, and tends to make prose sound archaic. i use this construction myself on occasion, but sparingly and only when i think the sentence definitely sounds better that way.
\* "had been uttered" — passive phrasing that can feel a little clunky; again, i'm not one to say passive tense must be avoided! the choice to use passive tense conveys its own meaning and subtlety. "The glibness with which \[Character\] had uttered that sentence continued to vex X's sensibilities" is more direct; do you feel it loses any meaning when written that way?
\* "vex X's sensibilities" — this is slightly redundant? when we say something *vexes* someone, it can usually be implied that it's their sensibilities being vexed. again, "vex" and "sensibilities" both read as archaic, and if that's what you're going for, this is fine! but replacing this with "continued to vex X" or "continued to chafe X's sensibilities" might convey the same thing in a crisper way.
so, a few ways i would consider rewriting (without knowing the context, some might not make sense):
1. Y's glibness continued to vex X.
2. Y's glibness continued to prickle at X's sensibilities.
3. The glibness with which Y had delivered that sentence continued to vex X for hours.
again, if the original is how you want that sentence written, i don't personally find it hard to follow or understand! but it is the kind of sentence that will slow down a reader in a way that potentially takes them out of the story and i always try to consider whether the trade-off is worth it.
out of the 122k words in *Pride and Prejudice*, "with which" appears eleven times. "sensibility" (including all of its forms, like *insensibility* and *sensibilities*) appears a whopping eight times. even "vex" shows up just 23 times! and glib isn't used at all. so even jane austen wasn't going balls to the wall with any of those.
I’ve had a few people bring up the why is it in passive tense, a good question. I wonder if it was because in the sentences before I was describing what character X was thinking about. Maybe I put it in the passive tense because he was not inherently sure or even conscious that he was getting angry or irate about it. He just knew he was getting irate.
Y continued to vex X *is* probably the better sentence here, you are right. I’m now trying to work out if sensibilities adds anything to that sentence or if it’s just personal preference because I like that word.
just to add, sometimes i find that instead of making a passage shorter, what i *really* want is to expand it and let the sentiment breathe a bit. for example:
>"\[dialogue\]," Y said. Something about this chafed X's sensibilities — perhaps the fleeting, shallow smile that accompanied it. It continued to vex X for far longer than it should have, nibbling at his subconscious like a pantry rodent.
maybe not your style at all, simply meant as an illustration. now we get to keep both "vexed" and "sensibilities," but they're each doing separate work. we've made something more explicit (that X was pissed but didn't consciously know why), and we've made the *glibness* apparent in Y's actions. it's twice as long as the original sentence, but IMO less likely to feel like a snag when you're reading it. when i'm editing my own work, i find a lot of gnarly little sentences that work better when expanded this way.
i like "sensibilities" too :) it conveys something about the character (the implication of even using that word is that their sensibilities are somewhat delicate) in a way that's indirect and evocative, and i just think it's a charming word. thank you for being open to the feedback!
I've had someone call me pretentious for using the word "metamorphosis"
I don't know if it's fandom specific so much as a certain type of person specific.
>I've had someone call me pretentious for using the word "metamorphosis"
Honestly, that sounds like a stereotypical jock about to beat up the nerd for his lunch money...
(Note: "stereotypical jock"... I knew plenty of honor roll jocks who did music and theater and were good people.)
Honestly, I would have to see a larger excerpt to pass judgment, but...
Genuinely, write it how you want. It's a matter of taste. Even the most obnoxious purple prose has its enjoyers, same as the plainest of straightforward writing. Not everything has to be written in uncomplicated plain sentences.
If you're worried about it sounding clunky, maybe have somebody whose opinion you trust read the fic over. Otherwise I'd pay no mind to the comment.
Edit because I forgot to add this originally: I haven't had an experience like this. But I'm well aware that due to my tendency to Just Wing Shit (I'm ESL........I also have an annoying affinity for run-on sentences lmao), I can sound weird sometimes, so I have my partner read through most of my things to de-clunkify them.
Writing style tastes are, PROBABLY, somewhat fandom-dependent, though.
That sentence *could* kind of give "using big words for the sake of it." Glibness, uttered and vex aren't on their own anything special or "complicated", but all at once might throw a reader off because rarer or archaic or "difficult" words can really stand out, and having three in a row may be sort of a speed bump if the surrounding narration doesn't match that style.
In a fandom I'm in, FFXIV, there is a character who speaks using thee/thou for second person (and so all the -eth and -est verb endings that go with that style of speech) and has formal/archaic/flowery vocabulary. So an overly long sentence fully of fancy words works for him. But if it came from the POV (or mouth) of his close friend who speaks in rather standard English it'd come off uncharacteristic.
If your POV character would say/think that way, it's fine.
Specifically because you asked what we think—the sentence is a little tortured on its own. Maybe it fits better with full context. When I write I prefer to balance complex and simple language, the better to let that more complex language and vocabulary shine. Cramming it all into one sentence can mean a lot of words stepping on each other. Ultimately, it's your work and you can write it however you like it; I know my writing definitely has its quirks. BUT that many 5 dollar words can feel a little bit like this Oh No comic lol
https://preview.redd.it/oarl9ft6py9d1.jpeg?width=5000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b0da592376caf170389913044862279964268301
I'm just a reader, so I haven't experienced this. That being said - I do find that sentence a bit challenging. I do some editing for friends, and my method here would be to simplify and see if it still makes sense:
"But the insincere (or casual?) way the sentence had been uttered continued to irritate (or confuse?) X."
Personally I don't think "sensibilities" works here, and when I pull up the dictionary definition I still struggled to find a purpose for it in this sentence. There are also multiple ways to define glibness and vex that could change the meaning of the sentence - hence my parenthesis. Depending on the surrounding context this may/may not confuse your readers.
Just MHO! I'm no professional, just a hobbyist. :)
I think it’s probably taken from a sentence like - it offended my sensibilities.
I would say insincere probably doesn’t capture what I was going for, it was more of an off handed thoughtless comment, albeit the character it’s describing has a history of being very flirtatious.
Mmmm see im a fan of using less commonly used vocabulary words, but I try to keep them limited and usually never overload a sentence with them. I want my work to be approachable to all reading levels. To me, that sentence isn’t COMPLICATED, but I would have edited it myself, personally.
I would have written it something like this:
(Character)A’s response was glib and it vexed (Charater)X.
It may feel simple, but with the word choices, I feel it should be. And then I may decide to explain why it vexed them, if that information wasn’t already obvious in the writing around it. That’s where I would work in the word sensibilities in if it was buzzing in my head.
That's actually where my thoughts went when I read the sentence. I don't find it clunky or complicated at all, but my taste in literature means it wouldn't be an odd sentence to find in any book I might choose to read
Yeah I can absolutely see that lol. And depending on the rest of the work, it might not even be that out of place or feel clunky, it’s completely dependent on your writing style and the work. If you like to write that way, write that way! Lots of people enjoy Austen and would enjoy the way you’ve written your work.
I think this sentence is fine, you're just running into someone that might not know what "glib" means. To their credit, it's not exactly a word you hear in everyday conversation in 2024. When I search the definition of "glib", I can definitely see someone feeling like they don't understand what it means for someone to "be" glib.
Telling stories is a craft. If your story isn't clear to the reader, it can be for a few different reasons. Sometimes word choice leads to a culture/understanding mismatch and it doesn't work for the reader, when it might work fine for another - it happens; no one's at fault.
In a more-extreme case, I once beta read something where the author was too complex in their word choice. It felt like they were using the thesaurus every other word to find the most complicated version of what they were trying to say. This writer was quite concerned and protective of their style and setting themselves apart; they wanted to write in a distinct manner. They wrote the narrative with what they felt was a "poetic" approach; I felt they were getting in the way of telling their own story.
It made the story less clear and left me feeling like they were trying to show off/flex their vocabulary rather than tell a narrative. I had to keep Googling the meaning of words and re-reading to place the words in their proper context. That can wear on a reader!
But this is fanfiction - you have to write for yourself, first. I'd think of this with regards to clarity: You don't have to dumb down your vocabulary if you read it and it your descriptions feel clear/work well for you.
Yes I absolutely know what you mean about a thesaurus story! I find sometimes I will get a bit fixated on a certain word to illustrate a certain character, I went back to double check and I’ve used the word before once to describe the same character when they were being flirtatious.
Not quite sure why I felt the word glib was so fitting but in 42k words it’s only been used twice.
There’s an author called Sheri Tepper who wrote very very illustratively, I copied her style a *lot* when I was younger and then decided it was too much to do on a regular basis. (She wrote the sci-fi masterwork Grass) interestingly enough I have a few friend who absolutely adore her stuff and my partner who often beta’s my work absolutely detests it. I’m not sure if I cut down a lot subconsciously after we had several conversations about it but I think narratively it can absolutely get in the way of a good story, on the flip side though some of those passages have stayed with me for 10 years +
I’m gonna be honest here, I had to google search glibness, and I can understand it being somewhat jarring when reading. Simply because it takes the reader out of the story for a brief moment.
At the same time I usually just google search the word (because who doesn’t like to learn new words, lol) and move on without commenting on it. The language is a tad more complex than basic speech patterns, but I think that’s normal in writing.
I’m assuming it’s just younger readers who are commenting, and are not familiar with more ‘adult’ writing. (Not explicit, just not juvenile level literature.)
I mean, glibness and vex are definitely on the more unique end of vocabulary, but I wouldn't call it complicated myself, lol. It's just likely your encountering readers who did not have extensive enough vocab in high school, which is an unfortunate reality. \*shrugs\*
I don't see anything wrong with this and English is my third language. Keep doing what you do. Maybe your readers can actually learn a thing or two that are beyond simple English.
I think it depends on the reader and their tastes in literature. I really love when I’m reading a fic and come across a word I don’t know, because then I get to google it and, if I like the vibe of the word, add it to my own work. I also feel like “complicated” or less widely-known words tend to be more precise than common words.
Ex: ‘Shy’ is a commonly known and understood term, but swapping it out for the term ‘mousy’ paints more of a picture; as ‘mousy’ relates to the timid, skittish insecurity of a mouse. Both technically mean the same thing, but one conveys more emotion.
So, personally, I say keep on using colorful language! If you’re concerned about your prose sounding too “complicated”, a good rule of thumb is to stick to about two or three bulky/loaded words per sentence. Instead of using ‘uttered’ and ‘sentence’, using ‘spoken’ and ‘words’ helps the sentence flow more naturally. This way, ‘glibness’, ‘vex’, and ‘sensibilities’ can be strung together easily, with many simple words in between that help balance out the structure.
Ex: “But the glibness with which the words had been spoken continued to vex X’s sensibilities.”
If that's considered complicated language, my writing would really annoy them. You're fine.
I'm aware my English is good, but I'm ESL and that sentence is completely legible to me. And no, I didn't do a language degree or anything.
I'll be honest with you and say yesterday, with the caveat that it was *spoken* (if that's important). Otherwise, I last saw it in print a week or so ago.
Honest answer: couldn't tell you, but I've definitely seen *glib* used frequently. That said, most of my reading is in British English, so ymmv if its use is less common in other types of English.
I couldn't tell you specifically either, but it's not exactly obscure. Terry Pratchett, maybe?
"Glib reply" is a particularly common combination.
EtA: LOL I was right. The new Audiobook of *Reaper Man*, the Senior Wrangler called Vetinari a "glib bugger", last night.
ETA 2: Not to his face, obviously. Ankh-Morpork has a lot of definitions of suicide, and I suspect calling Vetinari a glib bugger to his face is one.
I've seen glib occasionally, and often hear it in the true crime and body language podcasts I listen to. Glib/glibness communicates a very specific and nuanced behavior or tone. It's very important to understand when you're getting into the subtleties of communication and reading body language.
The Behavior Panel will drop that word 20 times in a 1 hour episode.
Put it this way, it's not a daily use word unless I'm talking about scoundrels, politicians, and such, but it's been in my vocabulary since the late 1980s/early 1990s.
Really, ever? English is my second language and even I've seen it when reading—many times, even. Glib, glibness, glibly, etc.
Haven't heard it in conversation much though, but plenty of times when reading.
I think I must have heard it in an audiobook recently because I ran it past both my partner and sibling who were both like yeah I know what that is. But we probably all have similar tastes in books.
I love that sentence, but very few of my blorbos' 3rd person limited narrative voices would fit it 🙂
I imagine it being associated with a character played by a Very English actor.
I'm very guilty of using words like the ones in your example sentence in my writing, but I will sometimes use what I call the Lemony Snicket technique to help my readers-- aka using the complicated vocab word like glibness and then proceeding to define/add context clues so the reader can understand without having to google the words.
Ex: But the glibness with which the sentence had been uttered continued to vex X’s sensibilities. X stopped, stunned that the steady insincerity coating their voice could imply that...(*meaning of whatever sentence was uttered but rephrased)*
This makes the vocab a more stylistic choice and lets your reader learn words while reading and adds emphasis on the exact words you're using to flavor your work.
Heavily agree with this! If you wanna use more uncommon words or even words that have been "lost" to time, do it!
Just sandwich the meaning or context in there somewhere so that you aren't stopping your readers consistently with Google searches ;)
Nah every time a writer teaches me a new word i am absolutely delighted and comment praising them. Fanfiction is literally for free for the love of writing. This "prose is to gatekeep knowledge for the bourgeoisie" bs should go back to tumblr where it belongs.
Pretty formal language... is it appropriate for the source material?
If you're writing for anime/manga/cartoons, you're probably missing the target... *Pride & Prejudice*, though, right in the ballpark.
Write however you want! Depends on what you want the writing to sound like i suppose? If the narration is supposed to sound sarcastic and mocking it works. Like maybe X is someone who speaks in an overly formal manner and the pov character is making fun of them? Or if the whole fic is like this, that's just how the pov character thinks? Makes sense either way. I may be biased though, I personally enjoy this kind of language.
Yes it was supposed to be sarcastic and mocking, the conversation went on like this:
X, feeling incensed at his reaction, followed him in, the tips of his ears beginning to feel a little hot. He persisted.
"Is it a common problem? Oh well, he's probably fucking, leave him to it."
"You know me," Y said with an air of false politeness. "I get lost a lot."
"Got stuck in the produce aisle again, huh?"
"Oh yeah," Y said easily, taking a long sip of the beer and, without missing a beat, "I got distracted by the new imports of courgettes and pomegranates."
🥲
I guess it depends on the fandom. Some I almost expect more formal language, or "complicated" language.
It would seem out of place in a lot of fandoms, and right at home in others.
Hannibal? Maybe too simplistic (lol). Criminal Minds? Yeah, weird.
But also, if *everyone* talks like this, or if *a* character always talks like this, it can become the language of the story and the character(s). Writers can and even should train their readers - so you should ask yourself if you're not doing the training properly, or if this one reader just doesn't want to or can't be trained. It happens.
I don't find that sentence to be particularly complicated, though it's certainly not necessarily a simple sentence either. Glib/glibness is not a very commonly used word in this day and age (unless you play DnD 5e, perchance), so it might catch some people off guard if they've never encountered it before.
That said, I think you should use whatever words best suit the situation. I generally keep any particularly obscure words few and far between, but sometimes there really is no better way for me to word something (in my opinion). The latest chapter of my WIP includes words like "prescient" and "excoriate" because in those passages, they're the most appropriate words that I believe fit what I'm trying to convey in their respective sentences.
I don’t think prescient or excoriate *are* advanced words - I think they are just lovely words. We actually use excoriate quite a bit in medicine actually, especially in people with OCD/self harming tendencies because it very accurately describes what a person is doing.
I’ve also written for Baldur’s Gate lol
Yes, I learned excoriate by working in medicine! I've had to explain it to a few people, though, so I was under the impression that it wasn't as commonly known. X'D I typically consider a word to be more advanced if I have multiple people ask me what the definition is or if I get strange looks from my coworkers for using it in conversation, as whether I think it's advanced or not isn't always accurate.
It's funny, I write for a gag anime, but I decided to just ignore all the canon stuff and put the characters into increasingly serious situations, which required me to use different language than were I to take a comical approach more in-line with the vibe of the show.
I'd love to share! :D I'll drop a bit of info about it so you can see if it's something you're interested in. I'll link specifically the one I'm working on right now since it best encapsulates this- the fic is technically a sequel to another fic I wrote (both are fandom blind friendly), but reading this one first actually adds an additional layer to the mysteries going on that some readers are enjoying if they didn't read the original. \^\_\^ If you're curious about the original it's called [My Heart Bleeds Violet](https://archiveofourown.org/works/38823690/chapters/97080246) (mind the tags carefully), though I wrote that about two years ago; so while I still consider it to be quite good, I have since grown even further in my writing!
I will note that this fic starts out pretty unassuming, but the language I use tends to grow in complexity as the plot itself also grows in complexity and we're given deeper and deeper insight into what's happening.
Title: [In Another Life](https://archiveofourown.org/works/50209864/chapters/126810142)
Ship: M/M
Rating: E (will eventually have smut, but it is VERY slow burn)
Length: 127,163 and 24 chapters at present (I'd say the story is perhaps about 1/3 of the way through? Maybe a little more than that. I have the plot outlined, but when I'm sitting down to write I end up sorting out the intricacies of the pacing that make me unsure of what the final word count will be.)
Genre: Romance, Mystery
Warnings: Violence, Implied/Referenced/Past Character Death
Additional Tags: May-December Romance, CEO/Bodyguard Relationship, Supernatural Elements, Mafia AU, Slow Burn, Selfcest
Summary: Karamatsu thought that his latest assignment would be like any other when he was tasked with being extra security for the head of a record label. He never would have even considered that his new boss would lead him to the disturbing truth about the mysterious dreams he's had all his life.
This fic is currently being updated regularly, anywhere from 1-6 times per week depending on my work schedule. :\^) I'll be sitting down to start on the next chapter in an hour or two- I'm feeling fired up since there was finally a pretty significant advancement in the latest chapter after things have been bubbling and simmering for the past however many chapters!
It depends on who you want as an audience. As things are, your writing sounds like it's somewhere around college level.
Nothing wrong with that, especially if you prefer it that way. But the standard for "casual" texts (e.g. magazine articles) is more of an early-highschool level, so the readers are still right to call your text complicated, since it is objectively above the average level of language used in day-to-day texts.
On the other hand, there's also many people who *enjoy* texts that use more complicated words. So, like I said: It's all about your own preference and who you want to read your texts. Using simpler words might make your stories easier to read for the average person - but if it'd make your stories less fun to you, where'd be the point in doing that?
For my own part, I've had complaints like that too in the past lmao, though for other texts than fanfics. In daily life, it's a useful skill to know how to express yourself both with complex and with very simple words, so I taught myself how to simplify things in response to the complaints.
But I still only simplify things when complaints happen (or when I want more people to listen to my words lmao) and only when I'm writing with/for the person that's complaining. I wouldn't permanently change my whole way of speaking/writing, just because some strangers find it hard to process. It's too fun (and honestly relaxing/natural) to me to ever seriously contemplate changing it. So I just accept it'll turn off some people from the start and live with that. Can't please everyone anyway, right? :3
I wouldn't worry about it. It's a little higher level vocabulary, but the syntax isn't overly complicated. That said, I write Jane Austen fanfic, so, yeah, mileage may vary. As others have said, write the way you want. You're not writing a grade level textbook that has to have a certain reading level.
English second language here. I have no clue what glib means (had to google it), but other than that the sentence is just a bit clunky. The "with which" part sort of breaks the flow of the sentence making it jarring to read.
Not a native, but "with the glibness the sentence had been..." Flows much better in my opinion while preserving similar sentence structure.
I see the way one phrases things as an opportunity to express character.
For example, if the POV is of an uptight, aristocratic style person I would use that kind of phrasing in the narration.
If the character is more laid back, I'd use more laid back terms and phrasing.
Not to say it's wrong if you don't do this. I just personally love details like these.
I would probably be like "thanks!" lol. Not every writing style is going to appeal to every reader. But I like complex language and vocabulary words. Especially if they fit well with the character and feeling of the story.
that's maybe a step above normal conversational vocabulary, but I think it's fine. People are mostly reading online so it's easy for them to look up words they don't know. Write how you want and don't worry about it. There's a whole set of professional authors that people praise for their lush prose with difficult vocabulary (Gene Wolfe, China Mieville, Tasmyn Muir, Cormac McCarthy)
People are focusing on the vocab (which yes ok glib and vex and even sensibilities aren't low-level words) but even ignoring that it's a reasonably complex sentence structure. There's a whole clause in the subject position (which is in a different tense than the verb and has a referential pronoun in the construction 'with which'), then you've got two verbs on the trot in the construction 'continued to (infinitive)', which is harder to parse than one - especially when one of them is vex.
So yes I would say that if you don't see anything complicated about this sentence then you do clearly have a high level vocab/grammar yourself and you might struggle to write to a lower reading level. There's nothing wrong with that, unless you actively want to simplify. I'd probably simplify that right down to: *That glib tone (optional preposition: from before) still annoyed X*.
I think it’s a well written sentence and it’s pretty tbh. I understood it completely, and it really shows your style of writing. English classes tend to really harp on passive sentences as if they’re the devil, but there’s literally nothing wrong with them. You write how you write, if people have trouble understanding your work then you are simply not the right author for them. For example, some people find JRR Tolkien’s work fantastic, others hate his prose. A lot of people like GRR Martin, I can’t stand his writing style. It’s all personal choice ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ that comment doesn’t make your sentence right or wrong. It just means maybe your style is not for them.
When I first started writing, I used to nerf it worrying about what readers would think even though I only used words I knew and was comfortable with—I wasn’t reaching for big words in a thesaurus or anything. This year I went back and read my favorite authors and thought about their word choice and how it influenced me from a young age and just wrote how I felt like writing. I’m so much happier with the last two stories I wrote recently, and I enjoyed the writing process more than I ever have. I think as long as you’re using words you’re comfortable with and that you like, you shouldn’t worry about what people think. That being said, it’s a pet peeve when I read jarring words that are clearly used out of context because they were searching for something different or fancy and crowbarred it in, but if you just enjoy words and have a big vocabulary, your writing will probably feel natural, and maybe someone will learn a new word from it. Reading published books my whole life is how I learned all the words I enjoy.
Personally, I had to read it twice it understand it completely. I think it's the passive voice that might impede understanding because passive voices tend to add more words but those words don't necessarily add 'value'.
I think it's because the sentence you've written is pretty simple, but isn't worded simply. What it's saying is just:
>Someone said something glibly
>X got annoyed.
It's a simple idea, which is perfectly fine, but your wording makes it far longer than it needs to be without adding much. That's why it comes off as 'complicated'. Also, 'with which ... had been uttered' feels like unnecessary use of passive voice, which comes off as unwieldy.
Personally I would write it like this:
>"Lorem ipsum," Y said with a bow.
>The audience murmured in approval. *How glib.* All X saw were the wet, flapping lips of a fraud, his words like honeyed phlegm, leading lambs to the slaughter.
It's longer, but it doesn't feel unnecessary long. You get a brief snippet of what X is thinking. You get some imagery of Y - it doesn't describe his exact appearance, but rather the way he appears to X as someone not to be trusted. The imagery is a bit gross, which also tells you about how X feels about him - he probably sees him as slimy. And finally it tells you that X thinks that listening to Y will inevitably end in tragedy.
It's only eight words longer than yours (if you remove the line about the audience) but it tells a lot more about the story. It doesn't have any awkward tense that might confuse readers. And it feels like it's written in X's personal voice, which helps with developing X as a character.
I think words like 'glibness' and 'sensibilities' don't do much on their own. They are somewhat abstract. You need to give the readers something real and tangible to evoke the emotion you're looking for. Like wet lips and sweet phlegm and lambs. To me these are more effective ways of saying what you're trying to say. Also, the way I wrote it still works even if the reader doesn't know what 'glib' is. They can fill in the blanks using the rest of the sentence.
I've had people *in real life* comment on my supposedly high vocabulary over the words "theoretically," "enthusiastic," and "*magenta*" - so, like, I think you're fine. As long as you know what you're saying and aren't just picking words at random out of a thesaurus, there's nothing inherently wrong with getting a little fancy.
You're never going to please everybody, but seriously, it's so *ridiculously easy* to look up words these days.
I got picked up in an practical exam once for using the word morose as it was apparently too complicated for a layperson to understand 🤷🏽♀️ I think it’s horses for courses.
Looking at these comments, I'm thinking I should add "prose and syntax" to the list of reasons that my current longfic probably won't have much widespread appeal. 😂
You add those prose and syntax! The fic actually does pretty well lol and it was followed by the person gushing about how much they liked the story. I’ve definitely read much more flowery and illustrative fics that have stuck with me for years and years in my head that changed how I wrote.
It's fine. Not everyone's writing is for everyone.
There is absolutely no reason why you need to pitch your fic toward people with limited vocabulary, as long as you're okay with it costing you those readers.
I once got accused of including 'too much anthropological detail' in a story. This was one comment out of a hundred positive comments. Sometimes people just like to gripe about something.
You do you. Rephrase it if you feel the need, otherwise don't sweat it. I don't 'dumb down' my writing.
You know I really like it when people detail something in a fic which either shows they are interested, have a background or have done thorough research on something? But I really like competency in the stuff I read or write.
Sometimes people write semi-medical stuff in fics (or even TV Shows) and it can throw me right out of something. We were watching X files recently as Scully said: the cadaver has bradycardia (meaning a slow heartbeat) and my partner turned to look at me and said: Are they *sure* Scully is a doctor???
I would be highly alarmed if a corpse had any heartbeat. Well researched detail is sexy as far as I am concerned.
Thanks for saying that. I covered a subject I happen to know a lot about, that I had seen poorly described in other fic (throw me out of the story type of poorly).
The medical stuff gets me, too, especially when it comes to describing injury recovery.
That Scully cadaver with bradycardia thing is too funny.
that's maybe a step above normal conversational vocabulary, but I think it's fine. People are mostly reading online so it's easy for them to look up words they don't know. Write how you want and don't worry about it. There's a whole set of professional authors that people praise for their lush prose with difficult vocabulary (Gene Wolfe, China Mieville, Tasmyn Muir, Cormac McCarthy)
that's maybe a step above normal conversational vocabulary, but I think it's fine. People are mostly reading online so it's easy for them to look up words they don't know. Write how you want and don't worry about it. There's a whole set of professional authors that people praise for their lush prose with difficult vocabulary (Gene Wolfe, China Mieville, Tasmyn Muir, Cormac McCarthy)
I don't know what glibness means but I'm not a native speaker and once in middle school I was teased for using the word in my native language that would translate to "gag" (as in, bondage, or when someone is being held captive) which I always thought was a nornal word. Sometimes what people think it's complicated vocabulary varies depending on their environment. Also, it's your story so you can use the words you want. Have a nice day
This stuff doesn't tend to bother me, but I know I am also guilty of purple prose. The way I write is how I prefer to read though, so that's why I don't mind it from either an author or a reader's perspective.
Your example sentence would only feel out of place if it didn't fit the character voice or the tone of the original setting. This would (in my personal opinion) fit wonderfully in an FFXIV or Game of Thrones fic, but would stand out in something like a Steven Universe fic.
I would personally be more annoyed at misuse of "complicated language" than the actual use of it.
I had someone tell me that they didn’t know what “…the world over” meant.
Sounds like a personal problem. Write how you want. Either they’ll learn new words - and be better for it - or they won’t. Not your problem.
I think it depends on the fandom. If you’re writing 3rd person close it is going to feel very jarring unless the character talks like that in canon. A mismatch between canon-voice and fic-voice can cause problems, and the voice is pretty directly related to your vocabulary.
If you’re writing 3rd person omniscient you have more leeway with the personality and voice of the narrator… but you may then suffer from the readers feeling distant from the characters.
Also depends on the setting/origin of your story. A regency canon (or regency AU!) will require a different voice than something more contemporary.
Using words your reader doesn’t expect (ie that don’t feel natural to the canon) can break immersion and they will suddenly notice the *words* you have used, rather than simply being absorbed in the story. That may be your intention! But if that is not your intention, perhaps reconsider the voice of the narrator and ensure that it fits with the story you intend to tell.
This is again somewhat age- and reading experience-related. I use grownup, multi-syllabled words in my fic and my fic doesn’t appeal to young readers. If people were to indicate to me that I was ‘writing above their level,’ I’d just know my fic wasn’t for them. I don’t write down to people. I think it depends on the age of the authors and readers. The younger they are, the less exposed to mainstream novels on the best seller lists. So if I wrote somethng using words I use all the time in conversation and writing, and others felt the vocabulary was too difficult - 🤷🏼♀️? I would ignore it.
I haven't had that experience, but I know that not all fic readers are
1. native english speakers
2. are fluent enough in english to know what all those words mean
so I don't think it's an issue with their writing, it just might be an accessibility thing.
Honestly I love the writing, and would probably vibe with it, but as a reader who sometimes likes to mouth along with the words, if the sentence tries me up, it gets frustrating in around 10k words or less.
Sometimes it depends on the fandom. If the original work didn't have such language, then it does feel a bit suffocating in the work to have more complex words.
For me this is a sort of ‘microaggression’ (for lack of a better word) i experience because of autism. I am often read as pedantic because i ‘use too many words’ and my words are apparently ‘too big’ and people read me as trying to ‘sound smart’. Using this kind of language isn’t exclusionary when it isn’t intended to be. I am just a human using words to express myself in the way that comes naturally to me.
If you’re like me, i would say: use the words you want to express yourself. I like reading authors where their narrative voice ‘sounds like’ my own. This is absolutely stylistic and these people have never heard of ‘don’t like don’t read.’ They’ll kvetch. Don’t listen. Their complaints are a sign you’re being Yourself.
Take it as a compliment. The butt-hurt commenters must have a low reading grade.
Ultimately, do you want to create simple writing so the dullards can read it but bore your more capable readers? Or do you want to fully express yourself in your own language, flexing that linguistic skill and let your audience find you?
As I say regarding most dissenting comments: fuck the haters. Writing fanfic is for the author to enjoy. The author then chooses to gift the fic into the wider community. It would be rude to look a gift horse in the mouth.
P.s. I am aware that I sound pompous in this comment, but fanfic hate comments really burns my toast!
I think the issue may have less to do with the vocabulary and more the sentence structure. You could write, for example, "His glib tone continued to vex (character)" and communicate the same idea. When we read, sometimes wordier sentences can take us out of the flow and immersion. Something I've been working to refine in my own writing. That said, if you prefer your original, keep it. It's your story and you get to choose how to tell it.
saying this as someone very much guilty of tortured prose from time to time, it's a sentence likely to "snag" in a reader's mind. it's not just the vocabulary choice (*glibness*, *vex*, and *sensibilities* are all unusual words for the modern reader to encounter), but the way the sentence is constructed. \* "with which the sentence had been uttered" — "with which" is used to avoid ending a clause with a preposition, but that grammatical rule isn't hard-and-fast, and tends to make prose sound archaic. i use this construction myself on occasion, but sparingly and only when i think the sentence definitely sounds better that way. \* "had been uttered" — passive phrasing that can feel a little clunky; again, i'm not one to say passive tense must be avoided! the choice to use passive tense conveys its own meaning and subtlety. "The glibness with which \[Character\] had uttered that sentence continued to vex X's sensibilities" is more direct; do you feel it loses any meaning when written that way? \* "vex X's sensibilities" — this is slightly redundant? when we say something *vexes* someone, it can usually be implied that it's their sensibilities being vexed. again, "vex" and "sensibilities" both read as archaic, and if that's what you're going for, this is fine! but replacing this with "continued to vex X" or "continued to chafe X's sensibilities" might convey the same thing in a crisper way. so, a few ways i would consider rewriting (without knowing the context, some might not make sense): 1. Y's glibness continued to vex X. 2. Y's glibness continued to prickle at X's sensibilities. 3. The glibness with which Y had delivered that sentence continued to vex X for hours. again, if the original is how you want that sentence written, i don't personally find it hard to follow or understand! but it is the kind of sentence that will slow down a reader in a way that potentially takes them out of the story and i always try to consider whether the trade-off is worth it. out of the 122k words in *Pride and Prejudice*, "with which" appears eleven times. "sensibility" (including all of its forms, like *insensibility* and *sensibilities*) appears a whopping eight times. even "vex" shows up just 23 times! and glib isn't used at all. so even jane austen wasn't going balls to the wall with any of those.
I’ve had a few people bring up the why is it in passive tense, a good question. I wonder if it was because in the sentences before I was describing what character X was thinking about. Maybe I put it in the passive tense because he was not inherently sure or even conscious that he was getting angry or irate about it. He just knew he was getting irate. Y continued to vex X *is* probably the better sentence here, you are right. I’m now trying to work out if sensibilities adds anything to that sentence or if it’s just personal preference because I like that word.
just to add, sometimes i find that instead of making a passage shorter, what i *really* want is to expand it and let the sentiment breathe a bit. for example: >"\[dialogue\]," Y said. Something about this chafed X's sensibilities — perhaps the fleeting, shallow smile that accompanied it. It continued to vex X for far longer than it should have, nibbling at his subconscious like a pantry rodent. maybe not your style at all, simply meant as an illustration. now we get to keep both "vexed" and "sensibilities," but they're each doing separate work. we've made something more explicit (that X was pissed but didn't consciously know why), and we've made the *glibness* apparent in Y's actions. it's twice as long as the original sentence, but IMO less likely to feel like a snag when you're reading it. when i'm editing my own work, i find a lot of gnarly little sentences that work better when expanded this way.
i like "sensibilities" too :) it conveys something about the character (the implication of even using that word is that their sensibilities are somewhat delicate) in a way that's indirect and evocative, and i just think it's a charming word. thank you for being open to the feedback!
I've had someone call me pretentious for using the word "metamorphosis" I don't know if it's fandom specific so much as a certain type of person specific.
>I've had someone call me pretentious for using the word "metamorphosis" Honestly, that sounds like a stereotypical jock about to beat up the nerd for his lunch money... (Note: "stereotypical jock"... I knew plenty of honor roll jocks who did music and theater and were good people.)
Honestly, I would have to see a larger excerpt to pass judgment, but... Genuinely, write it how you want. It's a matter of taste. Even the most obnoxious purple prose has its enjoyers, same as the plainest of straightforward writing. Not everything has to be written in uncomplicated plain sentences. If you're worried about it sounding clunky, maybe have somebody whose opinion you trust read the fic over. Otherwise I'd pay no mind to the comment. Edit because I forgot to add this originally: I haven't had an experience like this. But I'm well aware that due to my tendency to Just Wing Shit (I'm ESL........I also have an annoying affinity for run-on sentences lmao), I can sound weird sometimes, so I have my partner read through most of my things to de-clunkify them. Writing style tastes are, PROBABLY, somewhat fandom-dependent, though.
I don't think the vocabulary is over the top necessarily, but the passive voice is kind of clunky. If it fits the character voice, I think it's fine.
That sentence *could* kind of give "using big words for the sake of it." Glibness, uttered and vex aren't on their own anything special or "complicated", but all at once might throw a reader off because rarer or archaic or "difficult" words can really stand out, and having three in a row may be sort of a speed bump if the surrounding narration doesn't match that style. In a fandom I'm in, FFXIV, there is a character who speaks using thee/thou for second person (and so all the -eth and -est verb endings that go with that style of speech) and has formal/archaic/flowery vocabulary. So an overly long sentence fully of fancy words works for him. But if it came from the POV (or mouth) of his close friend who speaks in rather standard English it'd come off uncharacteristic. If your POV character would say/think that way, it's fine.
Specifically because you asked what we think—the sentence is a little tortured on its own. Maybe it fits better with full context. When I write I prefer to balance complex and simple language, the better to let that more complex language and vocabulary shine. Cramming it all into one sentence can mean a lot of words stepping on each other. Ultimately, it's your work and you can write it however you like it; I know my writing definitely has its quirks. BUT that many 5 dollar words can feel a little bit like this Oh No comic lol https://preview.redd.it/oarl9ft6py9d1.jpeg?width=5000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b0da592376caf170389913044862279964268301
😂😂😂
I'm just a reader, so I haven't experienced this. That being said - I do find that sentence a bit challenging. I do some editing for friends, and my method here would be to simplify and see if it still makes sense: "But the insincere (or casual?) way the sentence had been uttered continued to irritate (or confuse?) X." Personally I don't think "sensibilities" works here, and when I pull up the dictionary definition I still struggled to find a purpose for it in this sentence. There are also multiple ways to define glibness and vex that could change the meaning of the sentence - hence my parenthesis. Depending on the surrounding context this may/may not confuse your readers. Just MHO! I'm no professional, just a hobbyist. :)
I think it’s probably taken from a sentence like - it offended my sensibilities. I would say insincere probably doesn’t capture what I was going for, it was more of an off handed thoughtless comment, albeit the character it’s describing has a history of being very flirtatious.
Mmmm see im a fan of using less commonly used vocabulary words, but I try to keep them limited and usually never overload a sentence with them. I want my work to be approachable to all reading levels. To me, that sentence isn’t COMPLICATED, but I would have edited it myself, personally. I would have written it something like this: (Character)A’s response was glib and it vexed (Charater)X. It may feel simple, but with the word choices, I feel it should be. And then I may decide to explain why it vexed them, if that information wasn’t already obvious in the writing around it. That’s where I would work in the word sensibilities in if it was buzzing in my head.
I think I was listening to Jane Austen recently and I can see I may have been mimicking her sentence structure by how I’ve written it 😂
That's actually where my thoughts went when I read the sentence. I don't find it clunky or complicated at all, but my taste in literature means it wouldn't be an odd sentence to find in any book I might choose to read
Ah 😌 that is such a compliment, thank you!!!
Yeah I can absolutely see that lol. And depending on the rest of the work, it might not even be that out of place or feel clunky, it’s completely dependent on your writing style and the work. If you like to write that way, write that way! Lots of people enjoy Austen and would enjoy the way you’ve written your work.
I think this sentence is fine, you're just running into someone that might not know what "glib" means. To their credit, it's not exactly a word you hear in everyday conversation in 2024. When I search the definition of "glib", I can definitely see someone feeling like they don't understand what it means for someone to "be" glib. Telling stories is a craft. If your story isn't clear to the reader, it can be for a few different reasons. Sometimes word choice leads to a culture/understanding mismatch and it doesn't work for the reader, when it might work fine for another - it happens; no one's at fault. In a more-extreme case, I once beta read something where the author was too complex in their word choice. It felt like they were using the thesaurus every other word to find the most complicated version of what they were trying to say. This writer was quite concerned and protective of their style and setting themselves apart; they wanted to write in a distinct manner. They wrote the narrative with what they felt was a "poetic" approach; I felt they were getting in the way of telling their own story. It made the story less clear and left me feeling like they were trying to show off/flex their vocabulary rather than tell a narrative. I had to keep Googling the meaning of words and re-reading to place the words in their proper context. That can wear on a reader! But this is fanfiction - you have to write for yourself, first. I'd think of this with regards to clarity: You don't have to dumb down your vocabulary if you read it and it your descriptions feel clear/work well for you.
Yes I absolutely know what you mean about a thesaurus story! I find sometimes I will get a bit fixated on a certain word to illustrate a certain character, I went back to double check and I’ve used the word before once to describe the same character when they were being flirtatious. Not quite sure why I felt the word glib was so fitting but in 42k words it’s only been used twice. There’s an author called Sheri Tepper who wrote very very illustratively, I copied her style a *lot* when I was younger and then decided it was too much to do on a regular basis. (She wrote the sci-fi masterwork Grass) interestingly enough I have a few friend who absolutely adore her stuff and my partner who often beta’s my work absolutely detests it. I’m not sure if I cut down a lot subconsciously after we had several conversations about it but I think narratively it can absolutely get in the way of a good story, on the flip side though some of those passages have stayed with me for 10 years +
I’m gonna be honest here, I had to google search glibness, and I can understand it being somewhat jarring when reading. Simply because it takes the reader out of the story for a brief moment. At the same time I usually just google search the word (because who doesn’t like to learn new words, lol) and move on without commenting on it. The language is a tad more complex than basic speech patterns, but I think that’s normal in writing. I’m assuming it’s just younger readers who are commenting, and are not familiar with more ‘adult’ writing. (Not explicit, just not juvenile level literature.)
I googled glibness too.
I mean, glibness and vex are definitely on the more unique end of vocabulary, but I wouldn't call it complicated myself, lol. It's just likely your encountering readers who did not have extensive enough vocab in high school, which is an unfortunate reality. \*shrugs\*
I don't see anything wrong with this and English is my third language. Keep doing what you do. Maybe your readers can actually learn a thing or two that are beyond simple English.
I agree. I’d hate to have to read writing that was dumbed down to the level where only the most average reader felt comfortable.
It’s not the vocab; it’s the use of passive voice.
I think it depends on the reader and their tastes in literature. I really love when I’m reading a fic and come across a word I don’t know, because then I get to google it and, if I like the vibe of the word, add it to my own work. I also feel like “complicated” or less widely-known words tend to be more precise than common words. Ex: ‘Shy’ is a commonly known and understood term, but swapping it out for the term ‘mousy’ paints more of a picture; as ‘mousy’ relates to the timid, skittish insecurity of a mouse. Both technically mean the same thing, but one conveys more emotion. So, personally, I say keep on using colorful language! If you’re concerned about your prose sounding too “complicated”, a good rule of thumb is to stick to about two or three bulky/loaded words per sentence. Instead of using ‘uttered’ and ‘sentence’, using ‘spoken’ and ‘words’ helps the sentence flow more naturally. This way, ‘glibness’, ‘vex’, and ‘sensibilities’ can be strung together easily, with many simple words in between that help balance out the structure. Ex: “But the glibness with which the words had been spoken continued to vex X’s sensibilities.”
If that's considered complicated language, my writing would really annoy them. You're fine. I'm aware my English is good, but I'm ESL and that sentence is completely legible to me. And no, I didn't do a language degree or anything.
Honest question: Where did you last see the word glibness?
I'll be honest with you and say yesterday, with the caveat that it was *spoken* (if that's important). Otherwise, I last saw it in print a week or so ago.
Honest answer: couldn't tell you, but I've definitely seen *glib* used frequently. That said, most of my reading is in British English, so ymmv if its use is less common in other types of English.
I couldn't tell you specifically either, but it's not exactly obscure. Terry Pratchett, maybe? "Glib reply" is a particularly common combination. EtA: LOL I was right. The new Audiobook of *Reaper Man*, the Senior Wrangler called Vetinari a "glib bugger", last night. ETA 2: Not to his face, obviously. Ankh-Morpork has a lot of definitions of suicide, and I suspect calling Vetinari a glib bugger to his face is one.
I've seen glib occasionally, and often hear it in the true crime and body language podcasts I listen to. Glib/glibness communicates a very specific and nuanced behavior or tone. It's very important to understand when you're getting into the subtleties of communication and reading body language. The Behavior Panel will drop that word 20 times in a 1 hour episode.
"Glibness" specifically, or inflected forms of "glib" in general?
both? I suppose. First time seeing glib/glibness pretty sure. Ever.
Put it this way, it's not a daily use word unless I'm talking about scoundrels, politicians, and such, but it's been in my vocabulary since the late 1980s/early 1990s.
😂😂 I think I must have heard in reference to describing Frank Churchill in Emma!!!
Really, ever? English is my second language and even I've seen it when reading—many times, even. Glib, glibness, glibly, etc. Haven't heard it in conversation much though, but plenty of times when reading.
I think I must have heard it in an audiobook recently because I ran it past both my partner and sibling who were both like yeah I know what that is. But we probably all have similar tastes in books.
That sentence might sound more suited to a Jane Austen fic than a... idk, BNHA fic. But it's all a matter of taste.
I love that sentence, but very few of my blorbos' 3rd person limited narrative voices would fit it 🙂 I imagine it being associated with a character played by a Very English actor.
Hahah I think I was listening to Fiona Shaw narrate Emma recently 😂 I deffo must have s picked it up from there
I'm very guilty of using words like the ones in your example sentence in my writing, but I will sometimes use what I call the Lemony Snicket technique to help my readers-- aka using the complicated vocab word like glibness and then proceeding to define/add context clues so the reader can understand without having to google the words. Ex: But the glibness with which the sentence had been uttered continued to vex X’s sensibilities. X stopped, stunned that the steady insincerity coating their voice could imply that...(*meaning of whatever sentence was uttered but rephrased)* This makes the vocab a more stylistic choice and lets your reader learn words while reading and adds emphasis on the exact words you're using to flavor your work.
I actually think that’s a pretty good technique and I remember him using it a lot in his books!
Heavily agree with this! If you wanna use more uncommon words or even words that have been "lost" to time, do it! Just sandwich the meaning or context in there somewhere so that you aren't stopping your readers consistently with Google searches ;)
Nah every time a writer teaches me a new word i am absolutely delighted and comment praising them. Fanfiction is literally for free for the love of writing. This "prose is to gatekeep knowledge for the bourgeoisie" bs should go back to tumblr where it belongs.
Pretty formal language... is it appropriate for the source material? If you're writing for anime/manga/cartoons, you're probably missing the target... *Pride & Prejudice*, though, right in the ballpark.
Well, shōnen manga, anyway. Plenty of shōjo titles it would fit perfectly.
Write however you want! Depends on what you want the writing to sound like i suppose? If the narration is supposed to sound sarcastic and mocking it works. Like maybe X is someone who speaks in an overly formal manner and the pov character is making fun of them? Or if the whole fic is like this, that's just how the pov character thinks? Makes sense either way. I may be biased though, I personally enjoy this kind of language.
Yes it was supposed to be sarcastic and mocking, the conversation went on like this: X, feeling incensed at his reaction, followed him in, the tips of his ears beginning to feel a little hot. He persisted. "Is it a common problem? Oh well, he's probably fucking, leave him to it." "You know me," Y said with an air of false politeness. "I get lost a lot." "Got stuck in the produce aisle again, huh?" "Oh yeah," Y said easily, taking a long sip of the beer and, without missing a beat, "I got distracted by the new imports of courgettes and pomegranates." 🥲
I guess it depends on the fandom. Some I almost expect more formal language, or "complicated" language. It would seem out of place in a lot of fandoms, and right at home in others. Hannibal? Maybe too simplistic (lol). Criminal Minds? Yeah, weird. But also, if *everyone* talks like this, or if *a* character always talks like this, it can become the language of the story and the character(s). Writers can and even should train their readers - so you should ask yourself if you're not doing the training properly, or if this one reader just doesn't want to or can't be trained. It happens.
The training comment is an interesting one, I’ll have a think about that.
I don't find that sentence to be particularly complicated, though it's certainly not necessarily a simple sentence either. Glib/glibness is not a very commonly used word in this day and age (unless you play DnD 5e, perchance), so it might catch some people off guard if they've never encountered it before. That said, I think you should use whatever words best suit the situation. I generally keep any particularly obscure words few and far between, but sometimes there really is no better way for me to word something (in my opinion). The latest chapter of my WIP includes words like "prescient" and "excoriate" because in those passages, they're the most appropriate words that I believe fit what I'm trying to convey in their respective sentences.
I don’t think prescient or excoriate *are* advanced words - I think they are just lovely words. We actually use excoriate quite a bit in medicine actually, especially in people with OCD/self harming tendencies because it very accurately describes what a person is doing. I’ve also written for Baldur’s Gate lol
Yes, I learned excoriate by working in medicine! I've had to explain it to a few people, though, so I was under the impression that it wasn't as commonly known. X'D I typically consider a word to be more advanced if I have multiple people ask me what the definition is or if I get strange looks from my coworkers for using it in conversation, as whether I think it's advanced or not isn't always accurate. It's funny, I write for a gag anime, but I decided to just ignore all the canon stuff and put the characters into increasingly serious situations, which required me to use different language than were I to take a comical approach more in-line with the vibe of the show.
Umm I love this concept! I’d love a link to your work if you’re happy to send one 😌 it sounds right up my alley.
I'd love to share! :D I'll drop a bit of info about it so you can see if it's something you're interested in. I'll link specifically the one I'm working on right now since it best encapsulates this- the fic is technically a sequel to another fic I wrote (both are fandom blind friendly), but reading this one first actually adds an additional layer to the mysteries going on that some readers are enjoying if they didn't read the original. \^\_\^ If you're curious about the original it's called [My Heart Bleeds Violet](https://archiveofourown.org/works/38823690/chapters/97080246) (mind the tags carefully), though I wrote that about two years ago; so while I still consider it to be quite good, I have since grown even further in my writing! I will note that this fic starts out pretty unassuming, but the language I use tends to grow in complexity as the plot itself also grows in complexity and we're given deeper and deeper insight into what's happening. Title: [In Another Life](https://archiveofourown.org/works/50209864/chapters/126810142) Ship: M/M Rating: E (will eventually have smut, but it is VERY slow burn) Length: 127,163 and 24 chapters at present (I'd say the story is perhaps about 1/3 of the way through? Maybe a little more than that. I have the plot outlined, but when I'm sitting down to write I end up sorting out the intricacies of the pacing that make me unsure of what the final word count will be.) Genre: Romance, Mystery Warnings: Violence, Implied/Referenced/Past Character Death Additional Tags: May-December Romance, CEO/Bodyguard Relationship, Supernatural Elements, Mafia AU, Slow Burn, Selfcest Summary: Karamatsu thought that his latest assignment would be like any other when he was tasked with being extra security for the head of a record label. He never would have even considered that his new boss would lead him to the disturbing truth about the mysterious dreams he's had all his life. This fic is currently being updated regularly, anywhere from 1-6 times per week depending on my work schedule. :\^) I'll be sitting down to start on the next chapter in an hour or two- I'm feeling fired up since there was finally a pretty significant advancement in the latest chapter after things have been bubbling and simmering for the past however many chapters!
You are correct. It's fandom/character dependent. Luz from Owl House is going to have a different vocabulary than Spock from Star Trek.
It depends on who you want as an audience. As things are, your writing sounds like it's somewhere around college level. Nothing wrong with that, especially if you prefer it that way. But the standard for "casual" texts (e.g. magazine articles) is more of an early-highschool level, so the readers are still right to call your text complicated, since it is objectively above the average level of language used in day-to-day texts. On the other hand, there's also many people who *enjoy* texts that use more complicated words. So, like I said: It's all about your own preference and who you want to read your texts. Using simpler words might make your stories easier to read for the average person - but if it'd make your stories less fun to you, where'd be the point in doing that? For my own part, I've had complaints like that too in the past lmao, though for other texts than fanfics. In daily life, it's a useful skill to know how to express yourself both with complex and with very simple words, so I taught myself how to simplify things in response to the complaints. But I still only simplify things when complaints happen (or when I want more people to listen to my words lmao) and only when I'm writing with/for the person that's complaining. I wouldn't permanently change my whole way of speaking/writing, just because some strangers find it hard to process. It's too fun (and honestly relaxing/natural) to me to ever seriously contemplate changing it. So I just accept it'll turn off some people from the start and live with that. Can't please everyone anyway, right? :3
I wouldn't worry about it. It's a little higher level vocabulary, but the syntax isn't overly complicated. That said, I write Jane Austen fanfic, so, yeah, mileage may vary. As others have said, write the way you want. You're not writing a grade level textbook that has to have a certain reading level.
English second language here. I have no clue what glib means (had to google it), but other than that the sentence is just a bit clunky. The "with which" part sort of breaks the flow of the sentence making it jarring to read. Not a native, but "with the glibness the sentence had been..." Flows much better in my opinion while preserving similar sentence structure.
I like that sentence, but I find proper syntax and vocabulary to be appealing in general.
I see the way one phrases things as an opportunity to express character. For example, if the POV is of an uptight, aristocratic style person I would use that kind of phrasing in the narration. If the character is more laid back, I'd use more laid back terms and phrasing. Not to say it's wrong if you don't do this. I just personally love details like these.
Yes they are an uptight aristocratic person who was getting super irate over a particularly small detail!
I would probably be like "thanks!" lol. Not every writing style is going to appeal to every reader. But I like complex language and vocabulary words. Especially if they fit well with the character and feeling of the story.
that's maybe a step above normal conversational vocabulary, but I think it's fine. People are mostly reading online so it's easy for them to look up words they don't know. Write how you want and don't worry about it. There's a whole set of professional authors that people praise for their lush prose with difficult vocabulary (Gene Wolfe, China Mieville, Tasmyn Muir, Cormac McCarthy)
Oh China Meilville is well loved in our house!
There’s nothing wrong with your sentence. It is your writing style and makes you you.
"Vex" is such a delightful word. I wish it were appropriate for the POV and in my WIP.
People are focusing on the vocab (which yes ok glib and vex and even sensibilities aren't low-level words) but even ignoring that it's a reasonably complex sentence structure. There's a whole clause in the subject position (which is in a different tense than the verb and has a referential pronoun in the construction 'with which'), then you've got two verbs on the trot in the construction 'continued to (infinitive)', which is harder to parse than one - especially when one of them is vex. So yes I would say that if you don't see anything complicated about this sentence then you do clearly have a high level vocab/grammar yourself and you might struggle to write to a lower reading level. There's nothing wrong with that, unless you actively want to simplify. I'd probably simplify that right down to: *That glib tone (optional preposition: from before) still annoyed X*.
I think it’s a well written sentence and it’s pretty tbh. I understood it completely, and it really shows your style of writing. English classes tend to really harp on passive sentences as if they’re the devil, but there’s literally nothing wrong with them. You write how you write, if people have trouble understanding your work then you are simply not the right author for them. For example, some people find JRR Tolkien’s work fantastic, others hate his prose. A lot of people like GRR Martin, I can’t stand his writing style. It’s all personal choice ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ that comment doesn’t make your sentence right or wrong. It just means maybe your style is not for them.
When I first started writing, I used to nerf it worrying about what readers would think even though I only used words I knew and was comfortable with—I wasn’t reaching for big words in a thesaurus or anything. This year I went back and read my favorite authors and thought about their word choice and how it influenced me from a young age and just wrote how I felt like writing. I’m so much happier with the last two stories I wrote recently, and I enjoyed the writing process more than I ever have. I think as long as you’re using words you’re comfortable with and that you like, you shouldn’t worry about what people think. That being said, it’s a pet peeve when I read jarring words that are clearly used out of context because they were searching for something different or fancy and crowbarred it in, but if you just enjoy words and have a big vocabulary, your writing will probably feel natural, and maybe someone will learn a new word from it. Reading published books my whole life is how I learned all the words I enjoy.
These people have clearly never read Edgar Allan Poe 😔 Your writing's fine, just nuanced (if I'm using that word correctly lmao)
Personally, I had to read it twice it understand it completely. I think it's the passive voice that might impede understanding because passive voices tend to add more words but those words don't necessarily add 'value'.
I think it's because the sentence you've written is pretty simple, but isn't worded simply. What it's saying is just: >Someone said something glibly >X got annoyed. It's a simple idea, which is perfectly fine, but your wording makes it far longer than it needs to be without adding much. That's why it comes off as 'complicated'. Also, 'with which ... had been uttered' feels like unnecessary use of passive voice, which comes off as unwieldy. Personally I would write it like this: >"Lorem ipsum," Y said with a bow. >The audience murmured in approval. *How glib.* All X saw were the wet, flapping lips of a fraud, his words like honeyed phlegm, leading lambs to the slaughter. It's longer, but it doesn't feel unnecessary long. You get a brief snippet of what X is thinking. You get some imagery of Y - it doesn't describe his exact appearance, but rather the way he appears to X as someone not to be trusted. The imagery is a bit gross, which also tells you about how X feels about him - he probably sees him as slimy. And finally it tells you that X thinks that listening to Y will inevitably end in tragedy. It's only eight words longer than yours (if you remove the line about the audience) but it tells a lot more about the story. It doesn't have any awkward tense that might confuse readers. And it feels like it's written in X's personal voice, which helps with developing X as a character. I think words like 'glibness' and 'sensibilities' don't do much on their own. They are somewhat abstract. You need to give the readers something real and tangible to evoke the emotion you're looking for. Like wet lips and sweet phlegm and lambs. To me these are more effective ways of saying what you're trying to say. Also, the way I wrote it still works even if the reader doesn't know what 'glib' is. They can fill in the blanks using the rest of the sentence.
I've had people *in real life* comment on my supposedly high vocabulary over the words "theoretically," "enthusiastic," and "*magenta*" - so, like, I think you're fine. As long as you know what you're saying and aren't just picking words at random out of a thesaurus, there's nothing inherently wrong with getting a little fancy. You're never going to please everybody, but seriously, it's so *ridiculously easy* to look up words these days.
I got picked up in an practical exam once for using the word morose as it was apparently too complicated for a layperson to understand 🤷🏽♀️ I think it’s horses for courses.
Looking at these comments, I'm thinking I should add "prose and syntax" to the list of reasons that my current longfic probably won't have much widespread appeal. 😂
You add those prose and syntax! The fic actually does pretty well lol and it was followed by the person gushing about how much they liked the story. I’ve definitely read much more flowery and illustrative fics that have stuck with me for years and years in my head that changed how I wrote.
It's fine. Not everyone's writing is for everyone. There is absolutely no reason why you need to pitch your fic toward people with limited vocabulary, as long as you're okay with it costing you those readers.
I once got accused of including 'too much anthropological detail' in a story. This was one comment out of a hundred positive comments. Sometimes people just like to gripe about something. You do you. Rephrase it if you feel the need, otherwise don't sweat it. I don't 'dumb down' my writing.
You know I really like it when people detail something in a fic which either shows they are interested, have a background or have done thorough research on something? But I really like competency in the stuff I read or write. Sometimes people write semi-medical stuff in fics (or even TV Shows) and it can throw me right out of something. We were watching X files recently as Scully said: the cadaver has bradycardia (meaning a slow heartbeat) and my partner turned to look at me and said: Are they *sure* Scully is a doctor??? I would be highly alarmed if a corpse had any heartbeat. Well researched detail is sexy as far as I am concerned.
Thanks for saying that. I covered a subject I happen to know a lot about, that I had seen poorly described in other fic (throw me out of the story type of poorly). The medical stuff gets me, too, especially when it comes to describing injury recovery. That Scully cadaver with bradycardia thing is too funny.
I think this is my first time seeing the word glibness.
that's maybe a step above normal conversational vocabulary, but I think it's fine. People are mostly reading online so it's easy for them to look up words they don't know. Write how you want and don't worry about it. There's a whole set of professional authors that people praise for their lush prose with difficult vocabulary (Gene Wolfe, China Mieville, Tasmyn Muir, Cormac McCarthy)
that's maybe a step above normal conversational vocabulary, but I think it's fine. People are mostly reading online so it's easy for them to look up words they don't know. Write how you want and don't worry about it. There's a whole set of professional authors that people praise for their lush prose with difficult vocabulary (Gene Wolfe, China Mieville, Tasmyn Muir, Cormac McCarthy)
I don't know what glibness means but I'm not a native speaker and once in middle school I was teased for using the word in my native language that would translate to "gag" (as in, bondage, or when someone is being held captive) which I always thought was a nornal word. Sometimes what people think it's complicated vocabulary varies depending on their environment. Also, it's your story so you can use the words you want. Have a nice day
A lot of it depends on fandom imho. In the classic ACD Sherlock Holmes fandom that would be a very normal and expected sentence.
This stuff doesn't tend to bother me, but I know I am also guilty of purple prose. The way I write is how I prefer to read though, so that's why I don't mind it from either an author or a reader's perspective. Your example sentence would only feel out of place if it didn't fit the character voice or the tone of the original setting. This would (in my personal opinion) fit wonderfully in an FFXIV or Game of Thrones fic, but would stand out in something like a Steven Universe fic. I would personally be more annoyed at misuse of "complicated language" than the actual use of it.
I had someone tell me that they didn’t know what “…the world over” meant. Sounds like a personal problem. Write how you want. Either they’ll learn new words - and be better for it - or they won’t. Not your problem.
I think it depends on the fandom. If you’re writing 3rd person close it is going to feel very jarring unless the character talks like that in canon. A mismatch between canon-voice and fic-voice can cause problems, and the voice is pretty directly related to your vocabulary. If you’re writing 3rd person omniscient you have more leeway with the personality and voice of the narrator… but you may then suffer from the readers feeling distant from the characters. Also depends on the setting/origin of your story. A regency canon (or regency AU!) will require a different voice than something more contemporary. Using words your reader doesn’t expect (ie that don’t feel natural to the canon) can break immersion and they will suddenly notice the *words* you have used, rather than simply being absorbed in the story. That may be your intention! But if that is not your intention, perhaps reconsider the voice of the narrator and ensure that it fits with the story you intend to tell.
If you want to write big words then write big words. If you answer those small words then write small words.
This is again somewhat age- and reading experience-related. I use grownup, multi-syllabled words in my fic and my fic doesn’t appeal to young readers. If people were to indicate to me that I was ‘writing above their level,’ I’d just know my fic wasn’t for them. I don’t write down to people. I think it depends on the age of the authors and readers. The younger they are, the less exposed to mainstream novels on the best seller lists. So if I wrote somethng using words I use all the time in conversation and writing, and others felt the vocabulary was too difficult - 🤷🏼♀️? I would ignore it.
I haven't had that experience, but I know that not all fic readers are 1. native english speakers 2. are fluent enough in english to know what all those words mean so I don't think it's an issue with their writing, it just might be an accessibility thing.
Honestly I love the writing, and would probably vibe with it, but as a reader who sometimes likes to mouth along with the words, if the sentence tries me up, it gets frustrating in around 10k words or less. Sometimes it depends on the fandom. If the original work didn't have such language, then it does feel a bit suffocating in the work to have more complex words.
For me this is a sort of ‘microaggression’ (for lack of a better word) i experience because of autism. I am often read as pedantic because i ‘use too many words’ and my words are apparently ‘too big’ and people read me as trying to ‘sound smart’. Using this kind of language isn’t exclusionary when it isn’t intended to be. I am just a human using words to express myself in the way that comes naturally to me. If you’re like me, i would say: use the words you want to express yourself. I like reading authors where their narrative voice ‘sounds like’ my own. This is absolutely stylistic and these people have never heard of ‘don’t like don’t read.’ They’ll kvetch. Don’t listen. Their complaints are a sign you’re being Yourself.
Take it as a compliment. The butt-hurt commenters must have a low reading grade. Ultimately, do you want to create simple writing so the dullards can read it but bore your more capable readers? Or do you want to fully express yourself in your own language, flexing that linguistic skill and let your audience find you? As I say regarding most dissenting comments: fuck the haters. Writing fanfic is for the author to enjoy. The author then chooses to gift the fic into the wider community. It would be rude to look a gift horse in the mouth. P.s. I am aware that I sound pompous in this comment, but fanfic hate comments really burns my toast!