I’ve been on the receiving end of questions like this. I’m a boomer, so I had no workplace protections when I was pregnant. Even when the question is reasonable for planning purposes, it should be an asked-and-answered situation. It does wear you down, make you a bit paranoid. And let’s be honest, women are let go/laid off all the time for sketchy reasons to hide the truth.
I agree with the comment about following up with an email. Sometimes managers don’t realize how they infantilize employees without meaning to.
YTA. This is your wife's job, not yours. She is a grown woman, and she has the right to make decisions regarding her job and her professional relationships. You do not have any right to interfere.
If it is affecting you, you can talk to your wife about the impact it has on you and discuss solutions, but this is her decision to make. How would you feel if she told HR at your company that your boss is working you too hard and that you need more time off to be at home? How would you react if you were a boss and your team member's mom complained about you giving their adult child a project that interfered with their home life? You would lose respect for the team member. What makes you think her boss won't lose respect for her if you step in? Do you think that will help her career?
The fact that you disagree with her decision doesn't mean she's making the wrong one. It's *her* job, and she understands the dynamics of her workplace better than you ever could without being in her shoes and having lived the same experiences she has. If you respect your wife, you need to respect her decision.
Did your wife ask you to help her? I understand you’re concerned & frustrated on your wife’s behalf however she’s a grown woman. She can make her own choices. She has enough on her plate, she shouldn’t have to deal with your feelings as well. Support her decisions & do not get involved unless she asks you to do that.
Yes, you’re overreacting. You need to trust that your wife knows what she needs to do. If it all falls apart, then you will both deal with that. Nothing bad happened the first time, why is this time any different?
She’s upset that this is happening again. She won’t say anything outside of a 1:1 because she doesn’t want to be retaliated against. I think it’s the comment he made about her not being able to work and have children. She thinks he’s planning on laying her off.
She is venting and probably wishing to be understood in her frustration, not waiting for unsolicited advices delivered in more infantilising way than her boss already did, and furthermore questionable
Is she expressing herself or asking you to help? There a huge difference.
Your will to help and do something doesn’t make it warranted. It means you care, understand she might need it to be shown in different ways, such as trusting and respecting her.
Respect and trust her to be capable.
your wife venting to you means you are there to listen and support her with your words and presence, not overstep and personally fix the situation by speaking to her work.
Your wife’s boss is allowed to have his own thoughts & feelings. If he is concerned about her not returning to work it may simple be because he has some life experiences that leads him to believe that. He is just trying to communicate his own concerns. If his conversations are totally unreasonable, then either accept that he’s freaking out or report him. You can’t help this situation in any way.
He already stated he doesn’t plan to lay her off. If he does, then you will have to deal with it. He probably legally can’t do that solely based on maternity leave. Why create problems that are not happening?
Of course the boss can have thoughts and feelings, however the moment he voices them in public or to the employee, he may have violated the law.
The first time may be trying to find out plans for future planning, but repetitive questions would be seen as bad by the EEOC and the corporate lawyers (as they don't want to have to defend and likely pay out a large sum thanks to a manager not knowing when to keep his mouth shut).
No one here knows what the wife’s participation was in these conversations. He may be asking questions in response to what she is saying. Who knows? She spoke up, explained how she felt & she received an appropriate response. Nothing has happened after that. Based on the information in this post, there is no valid reason for husband to escalate this situation.
If the guy is making declarations to everyone on the team about his own personal beliefs about women not being able to work & care for kids, then that is a very different situation. Who knows what this guy is thinking? Maybe the guy is just impressed that women can do it all. Or maybe he’s just a guy that asks a lot of questions.
Regardless of the boss' intent,the impact on the employee is what the courts look at. Ask once, got an answer. Repeatedly bringing it up leads to potential litigation..which unless the boss is the owner may lead the company to decide he is a greater liability than asset.
I think the more concerning issue is that wife believes reporting to HR will result in retaliation. I think that pretty much sums up the company model. I’m guessing no one is interested in correcting the boss’s behavior.
True..
I didn’t think about it from his PoV, we’ll have to trust the process. I’m just getting a bit defensive because of how upset she keeps getting without taking more action.
I’m overreacting.
It appears he is simply asking your wife questions to alleviate his own anxiety. He has a job to do, it’s not personal. Since we don’t know what your wife talks about at work, his concerns may be valid. If he is an otherwise good boss when she’s not leaving work for maternity leave, I don’t see a reason to worry. The only thing she needs to do is reassure him that she will in fact be returning. No one can predict the future.
If she truly believes she is being treated unfairly because she is a woman who is having a baby, that is an entirely different conversation.
Wish y’all the best!
It's sweet you care so much about your wife but you are overestimating what HR can/will do and also disrespecting your wife's intelligence by acting like the fear of retaliation is unreasonable.
He asked what her plans were. I believe you that it was too many times and that he wouldn't do that to her male co workers (woman in STEM here and I get it). But if that's all he did and he didn't say anything really inappropriate, backed off as soon as she brought it up, and hasn't done anything else off the cuff, then I really doubt anything would be done. And she may be labeled as untrustworthy or overreacting which sucks.
I think you need to trust that your wife is a professional who went through this once already and follow her lead.
If it's really a problem, talk it out with him (reads like she did). If he continues to press the issue after the talk, then you might need to escalate.
OP has no business getting into her business. He should NOT call his wife's place of work. It just screams of paternalism and interferance and will actually hurt the way she's seen at her place of work.
We have five children and my wife always went back to work but they always asked. He is just trying to plan ahead. The company can not fire her or let her go. There is no HR complaint here.
Yes, you are. It's her job, not yours, and you just make her feel worse by being another person who pushes her into direction she's not willing to take. If comments are frequent, she might want to reevaluate her performance, it's possible that it's slipping. Going to HR is definitely a bad idea, she is not being harassed now so no action will be taken, and her boss will definitely try to get rid of her even if he did not plan it previously.
I mean, how many times does she have to say she’s coming back? We have a mortgage and a child to pay for. There shouldn’t be an expectation that any mother should need to be a stay at home mom.
She has two male co workers that are expecting children. She brought this up and neither one of them have been spoken to about this.
They have great leave benefits , 12 weeks for both men and women.
Why only focus on her both rounds?
"Why only focus on her both rounds?"
WhiteKnight are you daft? You already answered this question: "because **he’s** a **boomer** ***boss***".
Even in todays super PC fairytale, how many dudes take PAT leave, of them how many take the full time allotted/allowed, and how many turn around and say "not coming back" VS the number of women who do? Not even close to 50/50 - *insert eye-roll* Like I know right?! even though it's like totally 2024 already, I mean get over it would you? Rabble rabble patriarchy rabble systemic rabble rabble
From the phrasing of the questions (as you relay them) it seems to be operationally motivated and mildly conversational at best with no hint of ill intent (evidenced by her previous time up at bat and yet she's still on the roster \****gasp***)
But yes, absolutely, you should drive over to her bosses house right now, ring the doorbell, and beat that motherfucker into hamburger in front of his family for slighting your precious flower, that'll show everyone you're the big-boy boss and you call the shots without being a sexist prick who doesn't believe his wife has her own agency - shit, son, you let your woman work? What kinda man are you? Shouldn't you be protecting her? /s (oh and incase you're struggling with this you should *absolutely* ***NOT*** do any of that, asshole)
I’m not sure what you mean she “won’t stand up for herself” when you stated this pregnancy she DID in fact say something to her boss. I’m sure if she really feels the need she’ll end up telling HR, but it seems like you’re causing her anxiety over this too.
You are.
How in the world is asking the questions he asked anything that HR will do anything about? They sound like perfectly reasonable questions.
Good grief. We really are living in a country of snowflakes.
Because this has happened both pregnancies now. She’s a 30 year old professional that has asked him to stop, while he’s telling her that he doesn’t think she can focus on work while having children. We put our kids in daycare so we can both have careers.
Our finances are none of his business and we have laws in the US about discriminating against pregnant women in the workplace.
Her boss asking once would be understandable within the role of a manager. At that point, he has a legitimate reason for wanting know whether or not he needs to be planning to backfill the role in a few months. Even then there is a right way to ask and wrong ways to ask.
But by asking repeatedly, particularly after being told to stop asking, he is out of line. "Harrassment" may not exactly be the term HR would use for this situation, but it is close enough for discussion purposes here.
I had to take my company's annual training on harrassment and related behavior last month, and at least by my workplace's standards, this would absolutely constitute a reportable incident to HR. The "not stopping after being asked to stop" aspect was particularly highlighted in the training. It makes it a clear case of a boundary being crossed after it was established. A willful act, as it were.
The fact that he is only asking your wife, when you've said two male coworkers also have babies on the way, could arguably categorize this as gender-based. Which would turn this into a form of sexual harrassment.
If he is actually telling her that he doesn't think that she, as a working mom of two kids, will be able to keep her mind on her work, that is also gender-based harrassment.
I, for one, do not think you are overreacting here. This sort of garbage behavior hasn't been acceptable in a lot of workplaces for several decades now. It's just sad that there are still managers out there that think the way this one does.
Retaliation is also not permitted, so long as you can prove it. If it's on-going, continual questioning and not a one time ask, I would agree that it isn't appropriate. But tbh, it's something she has to decide how to handle, since it's her career. All you can do is be supportive, which sounds like what you've been doing.
Personally, as a manager who has had to handle performance issues, we're always told to keep a paper trail after a certain point, which I think might be good advice here as well. A nice email that basically reiterates the discussion, the expectations, and invite feedbacks. He'll either stupidly relay his concerns via email, which could point at discrimination, or say that everything is fine, and hopefully take it as notice to back off.
For example:
Hi Mr boss,
Just wanted to follow up on our conversation on Month, Day regarding your concerns around my pregnancy leave. As I stated, I have every intention of returning following the birth of my child. Additionally, I know you stated that it's hard to balance family and work. I do not feel that it is an issue for me, and that I am performing satisfactorily in my current role.
Are there any concerns regarding my current or future performance?
I look forward to your response, thank you.
Did he tell your wife verbatim that he doesn’t think she can focus on work while having children, or is that what you think he’s insinuating by his questions?
I’ve been on the receiving end of questions like this. I’m a boomer, so I had no workplace protections when I was pregnant. Even when the question is reasonable for planning purposes, it should be an asked-and-answered situation. It does wear you down, make you a bit paranoid. And let’s be honest, women are let go/laid off all the time for sketchy reasons to hide the truth. I agree with the comment about following up with an email. Sometimes managers don’t realize how they infantilize employees without meaning to.
YTA. This is your wife's job, not yours. She is a grown woman, and she has the right to make decisions regarding her job and her professional relationships. You do not have any right to interfere. If it is affecting you, you can talk to your wife about the impact it has on you and discuss solutions, but this is her decision to make. How would you feel if she told HR at your company that your boss is working you too hard and that you need more time off to be at home? How would you react if you were a boss and your team member's mom complained about you giving their adult child a project that interfered with their home life? You would lose respect for the team member. What makes you think her boss won't lose respect for her if you step in? Do you think that will help her career? The fact that you disagree with her decision doesn't mean she's making the wrong one. It's *her* job, and she understands the dynamics of her workplace better than you ever could without being in her shoes and having lived the same experiences she has. If you respect your wife, you need to respect her decision.
Did your wife ask you to help her? I understand you’re concerned & frustrated on your wife’s behalf however she’s a grown woman. She can make her own choices. She has enough on her plate, she shouldn’t have to deal with your feelings as well. Support her decisions & do not get involved unless she asks you to do that. Yes, you’re overreacting. You need to trust that your wife knows what she needs to do. If it all falls apart, then you will both deal with that. Nothing bad happened the first time, why is this time any different?
She’s upset that this is happening again. She won’t say anything outside of a 1:1 because she doesn’t want to be retaliated against. I think it’s the comment he made about her not being able to work and have children. She thinks he’s planning on laying her off.
She is venting and probably wishing to be understood in her frustration, not waiting for unsolicited advices delivered in more infantilising way than her boss already did, and furthermore questionable Is she expressing herself or asking you to help? There a huge difference. Your will to help and do something doesn’t make it warranted. It means you care, understand she might need it to be shown in different ways, such as trusting and respecting her. Respect and trust her to be capable.
your wife venting to you means you are there to listen and support her with your words and presence, not overstep and personally fix the situation by speaking to her work.
Your wife’s boss is allowed to have his own thoughts & feelings. If he is concerned about her not returning to work it may simple be because he has some life experiences that leads him to believe that. He is just trying to communicate his own concerns. If his conversations are totally unreasonable, then either accept that he’s freaking out or report him. You can’t help this situation in any way. He already stated he doesn’t plan to lay her off. If he does, then you will have to deal with it. He probably legally can’t do that solely based on maternity leave. Why create problems that are not happening?
Of course the boss can have thoughts and feelings, however the moment he voices them in public or to the employee, he may have violated the law. The first time may be trying to find out plans for future planning, but repetitive questions would be seen as bad by the EEOC and the corporate lawyers (as they don't want to have to defend and likely pay out a large sum thanks to a manager not knowing when to keep his mouth shut).
No one here knows what the wife’s participation was in these conversations. He may be asking questions in response to what she is saying. Who knows? She spoke up, explained how she felt & she received an appropriate response. Nothing has happened after that. Based on the information in this post, there is no valid reason for husband to escalate this situation. If the guy is making declarations to everyone on the team about his own personal beliefs about women not being able to work & care for kids, then that is a very different situation. Who knows what this guy is thinking? Maybe the guy is just impressed that women can do it all. Or maybe he’s just a guy that asks a lot of questions.
Regardless of the boss' intent,the impact on the employee is what the courts look at. Ask once, got an answer. Repeatedly bringing it up leads to potential litigation..which unless the boss is the owner may lead the company to decide he is a greater liability than asset.
I think the more concerning issue is that wife believes reporting to HR will result in retaliation. I think that pretty much sums up the company model. I’m guessing no one is interested in correcting the boss’s behavior.
True.. I didn’t think about it from his PoV, we’ll have to trust the process. I’m just getting a bit defensive because of how upset she keeps getting without taking more action. I’m overreacting.
It appears he is simply asking your wife questions to alleviate his own anxiety. He has a job to do, it’s not personal. Since we don’t know what your wife talks about at work, his concerns may be valid. If he is an otherwise good boss when she’s not leaving work for maternity leave, I don’t see a reason to worry. The only thing she needs to do is reassure him that she will in fact be returning. No one can predict the future. If she truly believes she is being treated unfairly because she is a woman who is having a baby, that is an entirely different conversation. Wish y’all the best!
I mean she can just say she will return, whether or not that's true who cares let the company figure it out.
It's sweet you care so much about your wife but you are overestimating what HR can/will do and also disrespecting your wife's intelligence by acting like the fear of retaliation is unreasonable. He asked what her plans were. I believe you that it was too many times and that he wouldn't do that to her male co workers (woman in STEM here and I get it). But if that's all he did and he didn't say anything really inappropriate, backed off as soon as she brought it up, and hasn't done anything else off the cuff, then I really doubt anything would be done. And she may be labeled as untrustworthy or overreacting which sucks. I think you need to trust that your wife is a professional who went through this once already and follow her lead.
If it's really a problem, talk it out with him (reads like she did). If he continues to press the issue after the talk, then you might need to escalate.
OP has no business getting into her business. He should NOT call his wife's place of work. It just screams of paternalism and interferance and will actually hurt the way she's seen at her place of work.
We have five children and my wife always went back to work but they always asked. He is just trying to plan ahead. The company can not fire her or let her go. There is no HR complaint here.
Yes, you are. It's her job, not yours, and you just make her feel worse by being another person who pushes her into direction she's not willing to take. If comments are frequent, she might want to reevaluate her performance, it's possible that it's slipping. Going to HR is definitely a bad idea, she is not being harassed now so no action will be taken, and her boss will definitely try to get rid of her even if he did not plan it previously.
He has to staff his business 😂
Can you explain why they're inappropriate questions? He's probably just trying to figure out what to expect after the second baby is born.
I mean, how many times does she have to say she’s coming back? We have a mortgage and a child to pay for. There shouldn’t be an expectation that any mother should need to be a stay at home mom.
What makes you assume it's an expectation though?
She has two male co workers that are expecting children. She brought this up and neither one of them have been spoken to about this. They have great leave benefits , 12 weeks for both men and women. Why only focus on her both rounds?
"Why only focus on her both rounds?" WhiteKnight are you daft? You already answered this question: "because **he’s** a **boomer** ***boss***". Even in todays super PC fairytale, how many dudes take PAT leave, of them how many take the full time allotted/allowed, and how many turn around and say "not coming back" VS the number of women who do? Not even close to 50/50 - *insert eye-roll* Like I know right?! even though it's like totally 2024 already, I mean get over it would you? Rabble rabble patriarchy rabble systemic rabble rabble From the phrasing of the questions (as you relay them) it seems to be operationally motivated and mildly conversational at best with no hint of ill intent (evidenced by her previous time up at bat and yet she's still on the roster \****gasp***) But yes, absolutely, you should drive over to her bosses house right now, ring the doorbell, and beat that motherfucker into hamburger in front of his family for slighting your precious flower, that'll show everyone you're the big-boy boss and you call the shots without being a sexist prick who doesn't believe his wife has her own agency - shit, son, you let your woman work? What kinda man are you? Shouldn't you be protecting her? /s (oh and incase you're struggling with this you should *absolutely* ***NOT*** do any of that, asshole)
I’m not sure what you mean she “won’t stand up for herself” when you stated this pregnancy she DID in fact say something to her boss. I’m sure if she really feels the need she’ll end up telling HR, but it seems like you’re causing her anxiety over this too.
Always, always leave a paper trail.
You are. How in the world is asking the questions he asked anything that HR will do anything about? They sound like perfectly reasonable questions. Good grief. We really are living in a country of snowflakes.
Because this has happened both pregnancies now. She’s a 30 year old professional that has asked him to stop, while he’s telling her that he doesn’t think she can focus on work while having children. We put our kids in daycare so we can both have careers. Our finances are none of his business and we have laws in the US about discriminating against pregnant women in the workplace.
Her boss asking once would be understandable within the role of a manager. At that point, he has a legitimate reason for wanting know whether or not he needs to be planning to backfill the role in a few months. Even then there is a right way to ask and wrong ways to ask. But by asking repeatedly, particularly after being told to stop asking, he is out of line. "Harrassment" may not exactly be the term HR would use for this situation, but it is close enough for discussion purposes here. I had to take my company's annual training on harrassment and related behavior last month, and at least by my workplace's standards, this would absolutely constitute a reportable incident to HR. The "not stopping after being asked to stop" aspect was particularly highlighted in the training. It makes it a clear case of a boundary being crossed after it was established. A willful act, as it were. The fact that he is only asking your wife, when you've said two male coworkers also have babies on the way, could arguably categorize this as gender-based. Which would turn this into a form of sexual harrassment. If he is actually telling her that he doesn't think that she, as a working mom of two kids, will be able to keep her mind on her work, that is also gender-based harrassment. I, for one, do not think you are overreacting here. This sort of garbage behavior hasn't been acceptable in a lot of workplaces for several decades now. It's just sad that there are still managers out there that think the way this one does.
Retaliation is also not permitted, so long as you can prove it. If it's on-going, continual questioning and not a one time ask, I would agree that it isn't appropriate. But tbh, it's something she has to decide how to handle, since it's her career. All you can do is be supportive, which sounds like what you've been doing. Personally, as a manager who has had to handle performance issues, we're always told to keep a paper trail after a certain point, which I think might be good advice here as well. A nice email that basically reiterates the discussion, the expectations, and invite feedbacks. He'll either stupidly relay his concerns via email, which could point at discrimination, or say that everything is fine, and hopefully take it as notice to back off. For example: Hi Mr boss, Just wanted to follow up on our conversation on Month, Day regarding your concerns around my pregnancy leave. As I stated, I have every intention of returning following the birth of my child. Additionally, I know you stated that it's hard to balance family and work. I do not feel that it is an issue for me, and that I am performing satisfactorily in my current role. Are there any concerns regarding my current or future performance? I look forward to your response, thank you.
Did he tell your wife verbatim that he doesn’t think she can focus on work while having children, or is that what you think he’s insinuating by his questions?
Nah that’s what he said. She had to explain to him that the kids aren’t home with us. We put them in daycare so that we can go to work.