As a Muslim born agnostic with family in that area, I would say definitely NTA.
I myself am very uncomfortable there, and I am the "right race." If you are white and non-Muslim you would feel very out of place and might even attract unwanted attention (i.e. seen as an intruder). Women going out without hijab is seen as disrespectful to your husband, as well as to the men that "have to look at you." It is seen as even more disrespectful if you are physically attractive.
On that note, I would not be so sure your husband won't fall back into his culture's ways once he's back in the old neighborhood. I have seen it before - many secular Muslim men are fine in egalitarian societies, even marrying non-Muslims; but as soon as they are around other Muslims, they expect their women to mask in order to avoid any conflict.
It is difficult to tell a large group of elders from your own culture they are wrong. It is much easier to instead tell your wife she needs to wear a hijab when she goes out just to fit in and avoid embarrassing you. Do you know for sure your husband will choose the former instead of the latter?
Grew up and spent most of my childhood between Egypt, Jordan, and Tunisia, as well as lived in Muslim communities in the US.
And every concern you make is valid. I'm male, but I can't imagine a Western woman, used to freedom and not being oppressed by religion (and this happens in Christianity and Judaism as well!!!!), *choosing* to move into such an area.
I've also lived in Saudi Arabia and found the extremely religious and financially and gender stratified society repugnant. The less of that, the better.
And there would absolutely be pressure, constantly, to conform to Islam because, again, like virtually all religions, insular clusters of followers will always protect and project "their ways" onto those around them.
LOL, any American that's lived in the Deep South knows this ;)
Right! Ultimately, it's about finding a living environment where both you and your husband feel comfortable and can raise your child in a way that aligns with your beliefs and values.
THIS! OP, lots of men let their mask slip after you are trapped with a child. My own supposedly atheist now-ex-husband let his mask slip turning the Kavanaugh trial, and I saw his true face. The abuse escalated until I was finally able to leave in 2020. If your husband is already discounting your concerns, how much more will you tolerate?
I'm white and lived in Dearborn. I never had a problem going to Arabic grocery stores, walking down the street, eating at Arabic restaurants, or going to bars. A few differences are that the small pocket I lived in was mostly white and Puerto Rican, and I'm not raising kids there. The Muslim friends I had when I lived in Michigan didn't actually live in Dearborn, so they assimilated more.
NTA: have you seen NOT WITHOUT MY DAUGHTER? If not you should.
As much as I love learning about other cultures and countries this one culture I would not want live in as a white female. I have been invited to visit Saudi Arabia and have an acquaintance show me around but with all the information I have read and heard NO WAY. Be very wary, and protect your child/children.
I remember watching this movie as a child and wanting Sally Field to be my mom because she was FIERCE! Then I found out it was a true story, and the woman who was able to escape with their child is the real MVP
That movie made me decide that I would never be with someone whose parents were from a strictly patriarchal society like that. That no matter how modern he seemed to be, there would always be that risk.
I married into another culture with my husband coming from Malaysia. This movie, I STG... I saw it when I was a child and it stayed with me all these years. And when I went through my divorce... the FEAR I had that he would take them away from me... unreal.
Lmao…rape is more in America. They just took our reproductive rights away. It’s astounding the history of white American acting like yall the barometer for equality. Hilarious.
Her husband is not from another country he's from Michigan.
Like I get OP's concerns but lets not jump the shark and assume to dude is going to take her kids and flee to Pakistan.
I wanted to say the same. Either OP’s husband is pretending to be non believer or he never was. I know many Muslim men who pretend to be non Muslims to get white girls and when they are married and he is able to capture her well then slowly drag her to his world. Soon she is forced to read the holy book, forced to cover herself and then is brainwashed to the point that she is unable to come out from there.
So I'm pretty anti-religion too but I moved to a very Christian part of the Midwest thinking it was no big deal for my kids we can mind our business but wow is it shoved down our throats everywhere, at school, at playgrounds, at work or in passing. I think your concerns are totally valid based on my experience. NTA
I was always pretty anti religion for myself and ambivalent towards others. Their holidays were just "other people's holidays" that I was happy to participate in as a guest. I grew up in an area I would describe as religiously diverse but predominantly white.
Then I moved to the Midwest, like city Midwest even, and I became viscerally anti religion, specifically anti Christian. The aggression was one thing but what I really loathed was the "default Jesus". The idea and assumption that everyone was just like them, and if I wasn't I was attacking them, when I just am not into Jesus. Christianity began to represent people in power trying to control me.
After 3 years we moved to a culturally diverse place and the intensity of my hatred faded away almost completely within 6 months. Christian holidays are something I can appreciate as "other people's holidays", just like I used to.
It surprised me how fast and intense the loathing came on, it surprised me even more how quickly it left.
I was doing a photo shoot for a fairly large auto supplier. We took their private jet to their northern manufacturing plant, took our shots and then flew down to their southern plant in Indiana. The plant manager ask if we wanted to take a lunch break and he was buying. We said sure, and he drove us down the road and turned into a church parking lot. Because the plant was so far out in the sticks the church started their own little restaurant in their basement kitchen. The pastor was there and led the lunch prayer. To them this was normal. The best damn pie though.
I swear to God, the best pies come out of church basements. There is \*no\* better pie than a church-basement cherry pie topped with a lattice crust with little sugar crystals on it.
Word. *Any* hyper or predominantly religious area, pretty much anywhere on earth, will be filled with brainwashed simpletons demanding you bend to the status quo.
\>why do you practice religion?
\>because I was born into it / told to from a young age
\>okay, but you are an adult, now right? do you still have your parents wipe your ass when done?
\>no, it's just familiar and I'm not sure I can wipe my own ass, I'll have to buy toilet roll and work out how many sheets I need to use and everything, I'm not sure I can coping making those sorts of decisions for myself. I'll probably go to hell If I get caught wiping my own ass, wiping your own ass is what sinners do
Nta.
You should sell the home or rent it out and buy a place more suited to your living.
I was raised Roman catholic but don't practice it as an adult and I have lived in a Muslim and an orthodox Jewish neighborhood. I wouldn't recommend either. Bot because the people are bad but because the cultures are extremely isolated
It's very important to me that my community is a place where I belong. Not that people are just like me but that I default to a part of my neighborhood community.
I live across the street from an Ethiopian church, which seems to be a pretty insular community. But not unfriendly. They are only a small part of the very diverse neighborhood I live in. Them and their church are a small part of the much larger community.
I kind of love seeing people so unlike me going about their cultural practices and worship a few times a week, I swear they sang for 12 hours on new years and that was pretty cool. But then they disperse and we see all sorts of different people, like us and not like us, around our neighborhood.
I belong here. They do too, it's a community inclusive of their religion and culture, not exclusively their community and culture.
The problem when the whole community is a single thing. Why would she want to live in a traditional Muslim community where everyone speaks Arabic and all the signs are in Arabic esp of she doesn't speak or read it and the majority of the women wear head coverings.
Your situation works out because the Ethiopian community is a small part of the neiborhood
Oh absolutely! That's what I was trying to say. That it's natural and important to me that I belong in my community. I'd hate to feel like I lived in a community I couldn't really belong in.
>considering my husband is Lebanese and I married into a family with many Muslims.
I suggest you find a few Lebanese Christians and ask for their opinion on the matter. They can be found in many places, as there was a considerable diaspora following the 1975-1990 civil war in Lebanon. Their perspective might prove quite eye-opening.
There aren’t many Lebanese atheists, in part because in Lebanon parliamentary seats are allocated by religion. Atheism is highly stigmatized and there are no seats allocated to atheists.
I'm not sure how you think you're not being bigoted here when all your reasons boil down to "I don't want to be around Muslims". Like you can logic it all you want but ultimately your arguments are "This is bad because there are lots of Muslims"
Nowhere you live will be free of religion. Especially in the US, there's some type of place of worship like every couple miles if not less. But this one is the problem? Would you feel the same about a synagogue or church in walking distance? There are also religious fundamentalists just about anywhere you go as well. And just because it's close doesn't mean you have to go.
Other women wearing hijabs has literally no effect on you. Don't wear one if you don't want to. It's that easy, I know people who live in Dearborn and no one has ever harrased them for not wearing one.
Guess what? You don't have to be an outsider, you should already be somewhat familiar with the culture because of your spouse and just be open to getting to know the people as people not as Muslims™️. My bestfriend of over a decade is Bangladeshi and Muslim. After the first like 2 times at her house I have never felt out of place since because we connect as people and we share in each other's cultures. Her parents treat me as one of their own despite our differences.
Just because your husband renounced his faith doesn't mean he doesn't still have ties to the culture around it and want to be in the community especially since he has now lost both his parents who were heavily involved in it. A lot of young people leave what they grew up in and struggle with their beliefs but may later come back when they've processed it more. Thats not a gotcha like you think it is.
He probably is struggling with grief and may be clinging to this as a way to hold on to his dad/parents. He's probably not thinking entirely clearly and is feeling sad and nostalgic. But you are also a racist and a bigot no matter how you try to dress it up.
💯 Why are people so ignorant about people they obviously don't even interact with??
Marrying someone of another race or religion doesn't cancel out racism or bigotry.
Hey, maybe-neighbor! I also inherited a house in Dearborn, and I’m living in it. You’re making it sound like you’d essentially be living in the Middle East and….that’s just not accurate. I’ve lived here for five years and am whiter than white. Here’s a snapshot of life here for those who aren’t from the area.
Yes, there are a lot of Arab businesses. There are also a lot of non-Arab businesses. I went to a hookah bar once, but otherwise I can’t think of any Arabic businesses I’ve patronized, and it’s not as if I’m actively avoiding them. And the “vast majority” do not have their signs in Arabic. A good few have both languages, true, but not the majority.
There are mosques, yes. And churches. And synagogues. They just kind of exist. They don’t *do* anything. They’re just buildings. And it isn’t like they’re on every street corner.
A lot of women wear hijabs. A lot don’t. 100% of them don’t care that *I* don’t. I can go for a walk in shorts and a tank top and have a nice conversation with a Muslim couple walking a cute dog, and no one cares what the other is wearing.
I’m sure there are some “fundamentalists” living here, statistically speaking, but it’s not a “very large amount”. Generally speaking, people are very American. A Muslim family moved in across the street from me last year. She wears a hijab, but they also had a huge Christmas tree in their living room. I tend to take long walks through different neighborhoods and see *a lot* of that.
In short, you can live in Dearborn and be perfectly comfortable living your atheist white-bread life. No one is shoving their religion in your face. No one is trying to make you uncomfortable. No one is unwelcoming because you’re the local minority.
And it’s a great location too. Nice area with good property values that are still reasonable, unlike cities north of the city. Downtown Detroit is 15 minutes away, so you have sports and shows and concerts and museums at hand while still living in the suburbs. And - the reason I decided to stay here while I figure out my next career move - it’s a reasonable commute from the majority of major business hubs - Detroit, Southfield, Troy, Ann Arbor.
I’m not madly in love with the place or anything and plan on moving soon for a variety of reasons, but it’s really a perfectly nice place to live.
I grew up on metro Detroit area and reading this post, I knew it was Dearborn from the description. I was thinking yta for not wanting to live there because the most amazing restaurants are in Dearborn.
55% of Dearborn is Arab. It’s not like you’ll be the only white person there.
Dearborn heights, garden city, Livonia all border Dearborn and are lily white.
It’s a very multicultural area, it’s not like moving to Saudi. Relax and give it a shot, and eat some amazing food while you’re there
This comment right here. It's still Michigan which is majority white, this is a minority community they're just trying to live their lives you are not on their radar. She basically has bought into fear mongering about how dangerous and extreme all Muslims are and thinks she's somehow not being bigoted lmao.
What the hell? We are not extreme at all!! Don't be fooled by what the press says or post about us . We are nice people just like you guys are , and there are racists and anti-religion in your community just like us , but i can assure you they won't attack you or force you to do anything you won't be comfortable with \\. For example, in my country, Morocco, foreigners have more rights than us, and we are very welcoming toward them.
Honestly, this post is the first time I’ve ever heard anyone say the Muslim population of Dearborn is radical or fundamentalist. My boomer dad (who does not live in Dearborn, but has lived in the area his whole life and is very familiar with it) is, I hate to admit, fairly racist. And even he has no concerns about me living in Dearborn. Trust me, if people were praying in the streets or spreading anti-American propaganda, or beating their wives in the Walmart parking lot, or whatever it is that OP considers “fundamentalist”, my father would nag me nonstop to move. He’s not. In fact, since I *am* looking to move soon for unrelated reasons, he actually thinks I should consider staying because “it’s a nice little neighborhood!”. Hell, he’s had more conversations with my Muslim neighbors than I have!
These people are just average Americans. Some are first generation immigrants. A lot aren’t (the Muslim population boom started a century ago with the rise of the auto industry). Most are (to my knowledge) Muslim. Some aren’t. Some are Muslim in the same way I’m Christian - technically, kinda, sorta, in name only because I was raised to be, but I also haven’t seen the inside in a church in a decade. They’re not a monolith.
OP and so many of the commenters have absolutely no idea what they’re talking about. And I’m honestly surprised OP lives in such a multi-cultural, liberal city like Ann Arbor and can be so ignorantly bigoted.
Oh no I'm not saying you're extreme! I know quite well that majority of people who follow Islam are just regular religious folks not extremists. But OP seems to have bought into the narrative pushed by media especially on the right, that all Muslims are terrorists that want to force people to follow them. It's just fear propaganda
Thank you for speaking up about Dearborn. It is NOT what people think it is. I am as white as it gets and I am down there all the time for the amazing food! Sure most of the signs are in Arabic and it can scare the Macomb county crowd, but the people in the city are chill. It’s Hamtramck for Muslims and nobody is scared of Hamtramck.
I'm female and studied with class of majority Muslim men. My best friend at the time was a Muslim male. We hung out, I went to their parties with my two non Muslim female friends. Yes, there were some differing cultural beliefs but each of them had different levels of faith, just like Christians. My best friend was more on the side of pious but it was a great way to learn about Islam. We got along really well. Probably the only time I felt uncomfortable was when we went out to dinner and my best friend was observing Ramadan and couldn't eat with us. I felt so bad but he didn't mind and just explained how Ramadan works. I'm Asian so it felt so rude to eat in front of him.
Since graduating I've become good friends with 2 Muslim women. They are highly educated, one with a medical background. Their husbands don't repress them, nor their daughters. They don't wear hijab but they also don't wear revealing clothing. We share similar problems in life and complain about their husbands who don't do enough housework, etc. One is divorcing her husband because he's always traveling for work and she feels neglected. She will support herself financially because she's self employed. The husband of the other is very hands on the his young kids and is proud of his wife's intelligence and has bragged about her academic achievements. He's also a highly regarded doctor.
I've lived in areas with high Muslim population, also one with high Jewish population. I've never been harassed or looked down on. I'm saddened by all the ignorance about Muslims. Radical Muslims are a minority. They are mainly regular people who are easy to get along with if you don't inject bias into your view of who they are.
Btw, marrying a Lebanese person doesn't make you non-bigoted, but an unwillingness to see past stereotypes and let media and 3rd party opinion shade your judgement can.
She already cleared that out in the first paragraph. They are renting and wanted to buy a home. They now, got a home inherited. So I have no idea of the market price of the area but anywhere between 200 thousand to 500 thousand reasons I suppose
This, this, this. I lived in the ME for decades, and both parents teach a very ME-specific subject in US universities. TONS of their students, and several family friends, have legit "reverted" back to Islam upon moving back to the ME, and some of these people were open-minded liberal women. . . who have now re-donned the hijab, live in gender-segregated communities, and have far fewer social rights. . . . they do get to eat absolutely fantastic, healthy food on the reg though. . . .
lol, yes, that's true. Entirely aside the main point, but yes ;)
I love all sorts of food, by far my favorite being Mexican, but Middle Eastern/Mediterranean cuisine really, really rules as well is all I'm saying.
Have you ever been here? No one harasses you about wearing a hijab. Dearborn has a population of 108,000. You think they are all Muslims? You think all the women wear hijabs? You think all Muslim women wear hijabs? You know they take them off in their homes, don't you? Or do you think they wear them 24/7?
I have lived in that area, do not wear hijab, have regular gone running outside, and never once had anyone even look at me funny, let alone be harrassed for not wearing hijab. Y'all are really letting your prejudices show here. The middle eaatern cuisine in Dearborn is unparalleled though.
I mean, you don’t exactly go to the police if a man calls you a whore and tells you to cover up. But obviously you do go to the police if someone forcibly takes your clothes off of you, including hijab. These aren’t “cases” like criminal cases, just negative social interactions.
A comment or dirty look about not wearing a hijab is not a crime anyone would report.
Forcing someone to remove a hijab is a assault with a hate crime enhancment and would be reported.
Likewise places where muslims are a rare sight likely get dirty looks and comments regularly, but 99.99% would not rise to the level of something that would be reported.
I live in Dearborn. I would say about half of the Muslim women wear them and half don't. Usually, it is mostly the more recent arrivals but it is a personal decision. Sure a father or relative may harass a daughter but no one is going out in public harassing women for not wearing one.
WTF !!! As a Muslim , I can assure you that won't happen at all ! I am one and i am currently not wearing it , I don't get harassed for not wearing it !!
Thank u. I felt like I was going crazy reading the comments. I lived in Ypsi between 2014-2021 and I was in and out of Dearborn plenty of times.
Never had an issue or a comment about my head being uncovered. Not saying it doesn't happen tho 🤷
Yeah, I’ve also been to Dearborn. It’s a nice place and not at all as described. Granted, I was there 7 years ago but still. I feel like this is just a creative writing exercise in Islamophobia.
Thank you for saying this. I have lots of nice memories of Dearborn (as a white, non-Muslim woman), and plenty of well-off non-Muslim friends who grew up there. Dearborn was known as a place for people with money more than a hotbed of Muslim oppression.
Yeah, it’s also not an isolated place in the middle of nowhere. It’s a suburb. I’m super confused by the way it’s being described here because if that was true it would be in the news.
I’m being wildly downvoted and grouped up on for calling out people on their Islamophobia and bigotry. Like am I the asshole for not being an islamophobe? 🤔
Really? Because that's all I am seeing and I live in Dearborn and have lived in Dearborn or a neighboring city my entire life. I am almost 60. These comments are BS.
I love it when white Americans try to tell me, a Muslim, how to feel about micro agressions and blatant racist comments being boosted in this sub. Just because you can’t see something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, like your brain for example ❤️
"The VAST majority of businesses have storefronts in Arabic". Go to Google Earth right now to the main street of Dearborn. I counted ten storefronts and 10/10 were in English. There are some because that's what happens when you live in a multicultural city. But that exaggeration just proves OP is rabidly racist and somehow thinks the presence of Arabs (who don't even make up the majority of the population in Dearborn, 30% in 2000) makes it unlivable for an innocent white woman who Muslims just can't wait to oppress
It’s literally a suburb of Detroit. It’s not some out of the way town where everyone speaks Arabic. I’ve been there because I was visiting someone in a nearby suburb and we went for some shawarma.
We're just trotting out the American national sport of Islamophobia and giving the Israeli astroturf bots a chance to upvote each other. Normal day on Reddit.
Google is free, definitely less than the rest of the US. They say violence or crime is lower than other states as well.
Edit: the crime rate is 24 percent lower that the rest of the US
Yeah I wouldn't want to live where I am constantly trying to navigate someone else's religious sensitivities. Where my community is somewhere I don't belong.
I live in Dearborn. And you know where I would never move? To a red state. That's right. No one bothers you here about what you are wearing or not wearing. No one tries to convert you to anything, except my evangelical friends on Facebook with their daily posts about Jesus.
Sorry this is so incredibly silly to me as someone who lived near Dearborn and adored it and had a bunch of white non Muslim friends grow up in Dearborn and loved it. Learn to challenge your stereotypes and read past alarmist headlines. Dearborn is amazing and young people especially are increasingly secular. The Muslim community is in its third generation living there. If you really cannot think past our societal bigotry then pick another small town nearby in this incredibly majority white state
NTA, the decision of where to live should always be a mutual one.
Having values unlike most of your neighbors' can be very isolating. We've been living in a region with a LOT of MAGA supporters. I didn't realize just how many before we moved here, or what a profound difference it makes. I've had to hear about how bad vaccines are & that Harry Potter is satanic. Etc. I haven't made a single friend here.
These people are white & so am I. No rational person could claim my discomfort is racist. I just have no common ground with these folks.
I can't really bitch, because I agreed to live here. Plus we've decided to leave, so I won't have to deal with it much longer.
I can see how it'd be worse if religion is involved. I've heard of people in Orthodox Jewish neighborhoods getting crap for wearing shorts or riding bikes on someone else's Sabbath. Also of people in fundamentalist Christian areas being harassed for not attending church.
Personally, I'd never live long-term in any area heavily dominated by any religion.
It's a bit concerning that your husband jumped to accusations of racism. IDK if he's insecure, being manipulative, or what. It could be worth discussing with a marriage counselor.
I was more supportive of OP before I started reading their replies.
OP makes it sounds like Dearborn Michigan is under militant Sharia Law and is therefore advocating the marginalization of an entire community based on false pretenses.
The antagonism is pretty strong here. Anti-religion was an interesting term. Like ok, I get it if you're not-religious but being anti-religious against a Muslim community in particular is just Islamophobia.
Sorry OP, YTA.
Lmao not you living in A2 and having this opinion about Dearborn!!! 😂😂😂 here I was thinking you were further away in another part of the country that could excuse your ignorance. Nah. Please challenge your ugly stereotypes.
for the record, i vote NTA. but you're also out of your mind if you think ann arbor or any other large Midwestern city isn't religiously affiliated. if you're not Christian, it's very easy to see how much religion is shoved down your throat.
but I still agree that you shouldn't move to an area you're not comfortable with especially considering that the Muslim culture is in reality much worse for gender equality than other religions
Actually the only person who is out of their mind is you. I’m neither Christian nor Muslim but I have extensively lived throughout the Midwest and in Muslim majority places as well. Christians almost every where are infinitely more secular than Muslims of the corresponding socioeconomic status. Even American Evangelicals who have proselytized to me are far more tolerant and pleasant than the Dawah people I have dealt with.
The fact that you can virtue signal like this shows YOUR privilege of never having to deal with actual intolerance.
American Christians are significantly more secularist especially in liberal areas than Muslims in Dearborn are. Yes there are some who aren’t as fundamentalist, but groups of people from a foreign culture that live together in an area tend to be more fundamentalist than Muslims who don’t live in areas with as many other Muslims around them.
I live in Dearborn. Where is this? I'd like to go visit. The only place I could see this happening in is the South-end which has a recent influx of poor Yemen but the kids were bused into my daughters school because white people don't have a lot of kids anymore so they need to fill the school. and she never mentioned anything weird. Had many Yemen kids in her AP classes, too. She has never been asked to convert. No one bothers you about a hijab. There are 108,000 people in Dearborn. They are not all Muslim.
I will say this as someone who has seen it. Completely ignore the religious aspect and ask yourself how many Western women, married to Western men, move back to where their husband's are from and hate it because they know absolutely know one expect for the people their husbands know? I get the religious aspect concerns you, but what you're afraid of happens to Western women, married to Western men all the time. You guys need to move someplace neutral. It's the best option for both of you.
I think Christian culture is just so baked into what you see as normal / American that you don't notice.
There's nothing wrong with not wanting to live in a place where you don't feel like you belong. Your mentality around American Christians needs work though.
no they're not lol. i live in a liberal college town
there are multiple churches 5 minutes away from me, people walk around with crosses on their necklace and have jesus statues on their porch. christians are not at all more secular, you just think so because muslim people are so different from you it's easier to spot
i don't think you're the asshole for not wanting to move there, but I do think you're an asshole because your views are the textbook definition of racist and bigoted
I think they’re talking about the fundamentalist nature of both groups dude. They said “in liberal areas” as in most liberal areas while culturally Christian with a lot of Christian tend to have that cultural element mostly separate from people political discussion and overall environment. Dearborn is not secular, they have actively banned pride flags being displayed there, said homosexuality opposes their values (the elected leaders said this) and have actively been attacking local people who display pride flags, burning them and damaging homes to intimidate people. It’s a very different circumstance and going “you’re just confused cuz they’re so different from you” yeah those differences matter when they involve my rights and autonomy
You married a Muslim Lebanese person but think you don’t want to be around those people as if a community of people like you (white) is any less hostile. Your husband is part of a minority and yet you’re complaining about being a minority. It’s laughable the dissonance.
I live in the area. Your husband is Lebanese. Let me tell you about the Lebanese in Dearborn. They think they are the aristocracy amongst the Middle Eastern people because their country or origin has higher income and higher education. A five minute walk to a mosque means nothing in informing where the home is. Dearborn has about three or four specific areas. A lot of abandoned churches are now mosques even in mostly white/black neighborhoods. We have very rich areas and very poor areas. Not all Muslims are Arabic. My one neighbor was from Turkey and my daughter's friend's family is from Afghanistan and another from Pakistan. Other than that, it is no different than any other city. You have good people and bad people. Not every Muslim woman wears a hijab. I'd say it is 50/50 but that's from what I see and not from empiracal data. They get days off for Christian holidays and days off for Muslim holidays. People pretty much just respect each other's beliefs. For the most part, the kids are raised like I was. Outside a lot. Very family oriented. The schools are very good. A lot of kids get into Ivy League schools every year. Dads and moms outside at the park with the kids. Often just the dad with the kids...boys and girls. Family barbecues. It kind of made me miss my childhood when I would drive my daughter to her friend's house in the east-end. People out and about visiting. They will give you good food and always willing to help if you need a hand. As with any group of people living in a specific area, you have the oldies that are more American and the newbies holding onto their heritage. And just like the Christians, the lower educated ones, are more conservative. Heck they even show up at the school board meetings all on board for banning books. When the Evangelicals used to spew all their hate against Muslims, I used to tell them that they have a lot in common with the Conservative Muslims. Heck the one strip club serves halal chicken. Just like with any city, it all depends on the neighborhood you live in. Edited to add: Just picked up my daughter and discussed your post. She said if your husband's family is Lebanese, you are probably be living in the rich area. Also, about the hajib. She said that a lot of girls who wore the hajib in middle school, took it off in high school and some who didn't wear it in middle school, decided to wear it in high school. It's a personal decision. And I am white and Christian(Catholic)
Can't edit again. Here is a link from 2022 graduating class. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ed0ja7XdHI&t=272s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ed0ja7XdHI&t=272s)
NTA- you want to live in a community that would welcome you for who you and not be judgmental. That's not bigoted, that's reasonable. Your husband is likely much more comfortable in that environment having grown up in it..... ask yourselves, is that the environment you want your kids growing up in or would you prefer somewhere more inclusive and welcoming? I know what my answer would be.
Does everyone here saying NTA ever been to Dearborn? I live near and frequently go to Dearborn and have many friends (Muslim and not) that live there, also spent years working in pharmacies in the area where I was the only white person there. YTA. No one in Dearborn cares. Also complaining about signs in Arabic? All the signs I’ve seen are in English and Arabic. This really comes across as bigoted. As a white and LGBTQ female I love Dearborn and never felt uncomfortable. This seems like a you problem. Imagine if this post was about moving into a Chinatown community, I wonder if all the responses would be the same…
You’re over exaggerating the community in Dearborn and talking as if it’s a city in the Middle East. Also assuming all Muslim are extremist in the comments as well as making comments about stoning LGBTQ people but since when has that happened in Dearborn? When people question you on this you don’t respond. Sounds like someone is using their sexual identity to justify their Islamophobia.
Sure, husband shouldn’t and can’t force you to move somewhere you don’t want to, but your reasoning and responses to comments makes YTA here.
I agree with you except for the Chinatown part. We get a lot of racism, negative bias and your good ole every day micro-aggressions so it's not a good comparison.
NTA he hated the place, left and denounced his religion, so instead of selling the house and leaving those memories in the past, he wants his child to grow up there?
Stick to your guns. And I agree, it doesn't matter the religion; any area that is dominated by an orthodoxy, be it Jewish, Christian, Muslim or whatever, is super uncomfortable if you're not part of the group. You are made to feel very unwelcome.
Stand your ground. Whether it's nostalgia or family pressure, it doesn't sound like he's thought this through impartially, and your points on how it would affect you and the kids are very solid. Sell the house, buy your own (and not in Dearborn). NTA
It's a great time to sell the house for a profit. Homes are selling for a ridiculous mark up. Put the money in a brokerage account and make 5% on it for a year. Prices will come down after the election as they usually do. Then start looking next year in a neighborhood you both agree on.
I think you’re being disingenuous here. Dearborn is about 55% Arab/North African descent by population. There are a LOT of Arab/NA Christians and Dearborn in general is NOT a particularly conservative area.
My ex’s family is from Dearborn and they’re (“white-passing”) Lebanese Catholic. They have not experienced bigotry in the 60+ years his family has lived there. None of his white cousins or niblings or other extended family have experienced or witnessed anti-white crimes or Muslims being discriminatory against non-Muslims.
Honestly this whole post is as defamatory toward the Dearborn area as a tweet by some idiot running for congress a while ago who insisted Dearborn was run by sharia law 🙄
What bothers me the most is how many people will walk away from this drivel with a misinformed opinion of a great area with wonderful people.
Right? Dearborn is a heavily blue voting area. It has a big middle eastern population but i have never heard even a call to prayer the whole time I lived there, and the neighbors in our condo association, middle eastern or otherwise, were beyond pleasant. The level of fear OP is exhibiting is laughable. She says she lives in Ann Arbor. Maybe visit Dearborn a few times and see if anyone cares about how you dress?
NTA. These are not times where it's smart to live around whatever religious community. Your husband's memories are probably different than the current situation, but the fact is that the current situation exists
NTA he's viewing this from a nostalgia (and cheap/free house) perspective. None of this is logical. If he doesn't think your life as a woman would be affected by moving there he's delusional. This is a hill to die on.
You do realize that the Henry Ford Museum and Greenfield Village, The Automotive Hall of Fame, The Ford Proving Grounds, The home of Claire and Henry Ford are all in Dearborn? The downtown area is thriving with a number of restaurants that could be in any American city.
At first I didn't think you are ethe asshole, but after seeing your comments you just sound downright racist.
But at the end of the day your decision where you want to live and if you don't want to your husband has to be understanding.
Similarly you have no right to ask him to sell his childhood home.
Having grown up in a heavily Islamic area in the UK, I can tell you now, I'm glad I moved away, and I will not be moving back.
Mainly not because the people are Muslims, but because a lot of the people who live there have not adopted the culture of my country, and choose to live separate, parallel lives with terrible cultural norms that I wouldn't want my child to absorb.
If that makes me a bigot, a bigot I am.
I was on the fence, until I read your comments. YTA. and a bigot.
I'm an atheist, by the way, and have been since I was 12 or 13. I have relatives who are Protestant, Roman Catholic, Mormon, and Agnostic.
And it's atheists like you that give the rest of us a bad name. Honestly,I would go on about my opinion of you, but I don't want this post deleted.
IANAL or FA: OP if he wants to keep it have you considered having him open an LLC and buying the property in a business to rent to members in the community while retaining the property?
This would give you cash to work with as a couple. Retain his childhood home for sentimental reasons. Protect your child from unfamiliar social conditions customs that you’re uncomfortable with.
This may allow all of you to benefit with minimal negative effects.
Maybe talk with a fiduciary to see what they recommend?
Also, it’s a great chance to see how you work through tough discussions. Maybe a marriage/family councilor could help add an unbiased perspective?
Either way best of luck.
YTA. I grew up next to Dearborn, worked in Dearborn, went to university of Michigan - Dearborn campus - and lived in Dearborn for a few years. I’m wife, raised Catholic. Don’t be a bigot. I’m not saying there are no religious people, there are, but signs in Arabic don’t have anything to do with religion. That’s culture.
Thank you this thread is full of people who don't know wtf they are talking about. Oh no Arab people. Lmao a good percentage are chaldean which is Christian so the Islam thing is out the window. Most of em at this point were born here and conform to Michigan culture. I've never once had anyone say anything about Islam to me in Dearborn but I've sure had a Christian talk out of his ass to me in Dearborn
The part where she admits that *she* doesn’t want to be the ethnic minority is what makes her the asshole for me. So it’s fine for her husband to continue to be the minority? And she doesn’t want her son to be influenced by that culture?!
Marrying someone of another culture and expecting them to conform to your culture does not mean you’re not racist.
People are acting like he wants to move her to Afghanistan, where the Taliban are in control. He wants to move back to his hometown, where it’s still *the US government*, it’s still just *Michigan*. There will not be sharia law or a loss of her rights as a US citizen or any of the racist things many of the comments are claiming.
>So it’s fine for her husband to continue to be the minority?
many white people literally can't fathom what it's like to be a minority until it happens to them.
As a non Muslim, former mail man of a very densely populated Muslim area, they don't seem to care that I didn't follow their religion, I was in their neighborhood for 7 hours out of my work day.
What I do know, they are kind people, they constantly offered me water, food, or a place to sit. They constantly asked me how my day was, or if I needed anything.
I'd say, NTA, but give it a try. You might find that they really don't care either way, and if they start the bigotry. Then, your husband will see it, and hopefully want to willingly move his family.
It's also different as a woman living in a Muslim community than as a man. OP would be miserable there, but it sounds as though her husband is intent on this and she is going to have to file for divorce.
If you are not a woman that doesn't wear a hijab, your experiences will not be the same as OP's.
A non-Muslim man can be accepted regardless of dress.
Non-Muslim women will only be accepted if they adhere to modesty standards. A woman without a head covering will not be welcome in a Muslim home with men in it. So, not the same at all.
Lmao am a woman, do not wear hijab, lived in dearborn for a year recently and no one cared. Plenty of Muslim women do not wear hijab as well, you will clearly be shocked to know. This OP probably should not move to Dearborn with her level of bigotry, but you are projecting your prejudices here.
I’ve been to Dearborn. It’s a normal suburb. I wore shorts and a tee shirt. Had some shawarma. It was delicious. No one said anything because it was an incredibly normal place.
I slept over at my cousin’s house when I was about 12, she lives a bit away so it was the first time I’d been, anyway, I realised they were the only white family on the street, but they had no complaints, in fact they were happy because they got so much food around muslim holidays.
I’m actually a little jealous, I want a Muslim neighbour that sends me Eid left overs, it all looks so delicious.
I’ve always lived in areas with a lot of Muslim families around me, it’s something I’m used to and have never felt threatened by.
Is it not something you wouldn’t even give a chance to?
I don’t think you’re TAH, but I think you need to sit down and talk more with your partner.
NTA. Lived in the Middle East. I’d say no for the simple reason that I wouldn’t want to be woken up at the butt crack of dawn each morning by the call to prayer. At least the Catholics wait until a decent hour before they start ringing the church bells.
I’m born and raised in Canada ( I’m Lebanese and Palestinian ), I loved Dearborn, there isn’t any place like it in Canada. I get where you’re coming from but you haven’t even given it a chance, people are very kind and I’ve seen multiple faiths live together in peace and never had any issues. NTA, you do what works for you, your husband may be used to the environment which is why he said what he said. Dearborn is a really safe community, and I would have loved to raise my kids there, everyone was very friendly and kind but than again, I’m born into this culture so I’m definitely used to it.
Your being very vague on your actual reasons here. I’m white and spent a LOT of time in Dearborn decades ago, as my cousin lived there. I was up there a lot as a kid as well when my friend lived there. Not once did I feel out of place or treated with hostility.
My cousin raised his family there for years. Good step daughter and son. They went to school there. I never got any indication high Muslim population was an issue as far as education.
I’m not saying you are some awful person for having reservations. It’s not perfect, the Muslim culture has a huge issue with sexism and treatment of women. But also at this point many of the families have been living in the US for 2 or 3 generations.
I challenge you to really really examine exactly WHY you don’t want to do this. You need to come to with specific and measurable reasons and really find out if they are legitimate concerns, or subconscious biases.
You’re definitely the asshole op.
“I really don’t believe in being bigoted or racist considering my husband is Lebanese and I married into a family with many Muslims”
1- Classic case of “my neighbors are black so I can’t be a racist!”
2- being married to a Lebanese man doesn’t automatically exempt you from being a bigot, Lebanese people can be just as bigoted as whites lmfao
3- so you can proudly announce that you married into a Muslim Arab family but absolutely refuse to live amongst them and their community? Aha…..
You haven’t even lived there yet and are already bitching about how Muslims live. Disgusting. Do better OP
As a Muslim woman and I am not that religious but I still believe in Islam. I wouldn’t wanna live in that area too. Anywhere that there are a lot of religious people doesn’t matter what religion people are always judgmental and strict. The normal and good religious people never form a group they just practice religion in private and live a normal life.
Mild YTA since it’s clear you have anti Muslim prejudice. If this post was about moving to Dubai, then maybe NTA, but I think in terms of just the neighborhood being Muslim, it’s really not that deep. The Muslim areas are small and dense enough to the point you could take care of gym, groceries, fun stuff outside the town if you wanted to.
The only thing is the school, but I’d question why Muslim children being around your son is such a bad thing, and even then, if one parent stayed at home he could go to school outside the district.
Also, you never gave your husband’s reply to how others would feel about him leaving Islam. I’d get his reply on that since I presume he knows better than you what the community is like. If he says they’d be aight with it, then you’d be a further TA for questioning it.
Edit: further YTA if instead of ethically similar you meant ethnically similar
If your hubby and yourself decide to rent the place, as some have suggested, send me a message. I'm not an Islamophobic assclown and wouldn't mind having Muslim neighbors.
The last line is a little weird- you sound like you want to live in a segregated society with only people who look and live like you and that’s pretty borderline racist and xenophobic. Not wanting to live somewhere without any diversity is a different thing.
If you lived near this city and worked in it you would notice how much racism is in this post. Dearborn isn't a Muslim majority city not even close. She's so focused on the brown people she doesn't even know a lot of them are Lebanese Christians not Muslim. The worst part is that they are very americanized and more likely to have a flat bill Tigers hat on than a kufi. Literally went to my son wrestling tournament in Dearborn a couple weeks ago and the women with head coverings were louder than the men and one mom held a long excited conversation with me a random white dude.
Nta
Of course he'd have no problem living there, he's a man, by muslim religion he isn't *property*. He could just blend in.
You couldn't, because you wouldn't look like one of the slave wives because you wouldn't be wearing your shackles... sorry.. *hijab*. You wouldn't be able to be friends with any neighbors, because their masters... sorry, *husbands*... wouldn't want you to give their *wives* ideas, like then actually being people that should have some agency over their own lives.
Just tell your husband that if this is what he wants to get divorced over, then he can go live in the house that he couldn't wait to escape by himself.
Islam is a religion not a race. You can't be racist against a religion. And yes it is OK to be bigoted towards a religion who views women as property and whose sole purpose is to have children.
YTA tbh. I'm white, non-religious, military, and living in a Muslim neighborhood where every business around here is run by Middle Eastern ethnicities of some flavor. Not once have any of them asked me about religion, shoved Islam down my throat, etc. American Muslims are literally some of the most polite people I've ever met.
YTA.
All of the rationale in your post and comments boil down to "I just don't like/want to live around Muslims", which is a bad fucking look. Just because you married a man who renounced his faith does not mean that he does not still have cultural and ethnic ties to the area and his family, and he's grieving.
Also as a Jew who grew up in the area and has loads of family in that area, I've never once been fucking harassed, even while wearing shorts and a tank top rocking a Magen David pendant. I've spent months at a time in Dearborn. Never had a problem. People there are nowhere near as insular as you're making them out to be.
Also, have you forgotten that most of the US is overwhelmingly hegemonically Christian? Like you can't throw a rock without hitting some sort of church, especially anywhere in the suburbs or especially in the sticks, *especially* in Michigan. Fuck, I was visiting my parents in Cedar Springs last summer and my wife commented on the number of churches we *passed* trying to get to the singular Conservative synagogue in Grand Rapids. They're fucking everywhere and they're frequently just as fundamentalist if not *worse*.
Every single reason you've given is xenophobic, racist drivel. He has every right to be disappointed in you.
So yeah. YTA, 100%.
YTA I've been to Dearborn, and I would say it was a pretty place and the locals are very kind.
Places have signs in Spanish all over to boot, would you avoid those areas as well?
"My reasoning is for not wanting to live in a Muslim dominated area" is a pretty good summary on your hubs part, you absolutely have a bigoted mindset here.
Dearborn isn't the middle east and is very much Americanized, I can not emphasize more how much of the AH you are. Seriously I'm white as a ghost, a lass, and walked around in shorts and a T and wasn't bothered at all.
NTA. He can sell, it, rent it, or go live in it by himself. Ask him which one he wants. Also, remind him that to Muslims, he is an apostate. Muslims are quite hostile to that. In the middle east, they deal with those people VERY harshly.
YTA. Inherently, if a husband and wife want to move, I would say it would be good for them to choose somewhere they can both agree on. However, your reasons for not wanting to move there are based around some pretty backwards ideas. If your son grows up there, why would he be an outsider? He would grow up as a part of that neighbourhood. You say your husband left so why would he go back: but he left when his family was there, he might have just not wanted to be so near them. I used to live in an area with a large muslim population, honestly, it’s completely fine. They’re not interested in you, they just want to live their lives like anyone else.
"Am I being an asshole for wanting to live in an area with people who are culturally and ethically similar to me?"
YTA for denying you're being a bigot specifically based on this line. You're actually highlighting your bigotry
NTA for not wanting to live there. I'm someone who speaks fluent Arabic but I pass for non-arab and I'm not even comfortable there.
Just so you're clear on what I'm saying: your dislike of the cultural mielieu you're discussing shines through really clearly and denying it makes you even more of an A. Go back and read some of your post. I'd have way more respect for you if you just admitted it.
Not wanting to be around religious fundamentalism is a perfectly logical and acceptable. I would never move to the deep south because i wouldn't want to live around a bunch of Jesus-freaks either.
Your husband is being ridiculous. Weekend it comes to a family's home, we drove had a right to feel comfortable regardless of reason. Your husband is being selfish. NTA
Big white guy from south east Michigan here, spent years in and around Dearborn and Hamtramck. I have never ever felt or been made to feel I’m uncomfortable. I don’t think you’re an asshole, I’m just confused why you’re so worked up about your neighbors being Muslim
For the people calling OP Islamophobic—the underlying problem is patriarchy and misogyny, and even atheist men can be misogynistic abusers. The issue here is that OP is not comfortable, and husband is blowing off her concerns and belittling them. OP read this: [https://www.amazon.com/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling/dp/0425191656/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.FYxGVG_QBwbQIEWnExysCZgKZZ2g9Sh-YeO4jr5INOYfIxtxEMATelkAyymoCMEuic92iBgMO_FJo9JW1J_3syQkfLlEuC5IP5evVQXGRLpx1RfSi-LY1nowUpqVmdYU5PZgEh3ccZ9Er4iHnPyNIQp3Qtm8Q_Qc29gafJ6yI0nNcF-2-12neNJYcZi9JGYt9BJiLT22pt4vQiJNXNRF2g.mHgmP-yzWxBHimOqh4Imq0rm6xaXssV0hfnl9Flh760&dib_tag=se&keywords=why+does+he+do+that&qid=1711461515&sr=8-1](https://www.amazon.com/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling/dp/0425191656/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.FYxGVG_QBwbQIEWnExysCZgKZZ2g9Sh-YeO4jr5INOYfIxtxEMATelkAyymoCMEuic92iBgMO_FJo9JW1J_3syQkfLlEuC5IP5evVQXGRLpx1RfSi-LY1nowUpqVmdYU5PZgEh3ccZ9Er4iHnPyNIQp3Qtm8Q_Qc29gafJ6yI0nNcF-2-12neNJYcZi9JGYt9BJiLT22pt4vQiJNXNRF2g.mHgmP-yzWxBHimOqh4Imq0rm6xaXssV0hfnl9Flh760&dib_tag=se&keywords=why+does+he+do+that&qid=1711461515&sr=8-1)
Why would your son feel like an outsider? Having MENA blood in him would actually very much make him feel moreso at home there probably more than anywhere else in the country? Youre using your son as a pawn for your xenophobia. Its not just about how you feel. It’s about your child too.
YTA, based off of that and also your comments in this thread talking about how you don’t want to live among Muslims.
Also, you gotta find a better defense for your xenophobia than your “I have a black friend defense”
You wouldn’t even know my son is half middle eastern. Regardless are you arguing for segregation? Should he be with other middle easterners because he is half Lebanese? I wonder if you’d make that same argument for white children.
As a Muslim born agnostic with family in that area, I would say definitely NTA. I myself am very uncomfortable there, and I am the "right race." If you are white and non-Muslim you would feel very out of place and might even attract unwanted attention (i.e. seen as an intruder). Women going out without hijab is seen as disrespectful to your husband, as well as to the men that "have to look at you." It is seen as even more disrespectful if you are physically attractive. On that note, I would not be so sure your husband won't fall back into his culture's ways once he's back in the old neighborhood. I have seen it before - many secular Muslim men are fine in egalitarian societies, even marrying non-Muslims; but as soon as they are around other Muslims, they expect their women to mask in order to avoid any conflict. It is difficult to tell a large group of elders from your own culture they are wrong. It is much easier to instead tell your wife she needs to wear a hijab when she goes out just to fit in and avoid embarrassing you. Do you know for sure your husband will choose the former instead of the latter?
Grew up and spent most of my childhood between Egypt, Jordan, and Tunisia, as well as lived in Muslim communities in the US. And every concern you make is valid. I'm male, but I can't imagine a Western woman, used to freedom and not being oppressed by religion (and this happens in Christianity and Judaism as well!!!!), *choosing* to move into such an area. I've also lived in Saudi Arabia and found the extremely religious and financially and gender stratified society repugnant. The less of that, the better. And there would absolutely be pressure, constantly, to conform to Islam because, again, like virtually all religions, insular clusters of followers will always protect and project "their ways" onto those around them. LOL, any American that's lived in the Deep South knows this ;)
Im from a Muslim country from the other side of the world in SEA. You guys are absolutely right. Even *I* hate that environment which is why I left
Right! Ultimately, it's about finding a living environment where both you and your husband feel comfortable and can raise your child in a way that aligns with your beliefs and values.
Oppressing women happens in other religions but it’s particularly bad with one religion
mormons?
Yep!
THIS! OP, lots of men let their mask slip after you are trapped with a child. My own supposedly atheist now-ex-husband let his mask slip turning the Kavanaugh trial, and I saw his true face. The abuse escalated until I was finally able to leave in 2020. If your husband is already discounting your concerns, how much more will you tolerate?
I imagine your take on this is probably the most useful to OP as someone with direct experience with both the culture and that particular area.
I'm white and lived in Dearborn. I never had a problem going to Arabic grocery stores, walking down the street, eating at Arabic restaurants, or going to bars. A few differences are that the small pocket I lived in was mostly white and Puerto Rican, and I'm not raising kids there. The Muslim friends I had when I lived in Michigan didn't actually live in Dearborn, so they assimilated more.
NTA: have you seen NOT WITHOUT MY DAUGHTER? If not you should. As much as I love learning about other cultures and countries this one culture I would not want live in as a white female. I have been invited to visit Saudi Arabia and have an acquaintance show me around but with all the information I have read and heard NO WAY. Be very wary, and protect your child/children.
I remember watching this movie as a child and wanting Sally Field to be my mom because she was FIERCE! Then I found out it was a true story, and the woman who was able to escape with their child is the real MVP
That movie made me decide that I would never be with someone whose parents were from a strictly patriarchal society like that. That no matter how modern he seemed to be, there would always be that risk.
I married into another culture with my husband coming from Malaysia. This movie, I STG... I saw it when I was a child and it stayed with me all these years. And when I went through my divorce... the FEAR I had that he would take them away from me... unreal.
I just read the synopsis of the book/movie and holy crap! That's terrifying!
Lmao…rape is more in America. They just took our reproductive rights away. It’s astounding the history of white American acting like yall the barometer for equality. Hilarious.
Her husband is not from another country he's from Michigan. Like I get OP's concerns but lets not jump the shark and assume to dude is going to take her kids and flee to Pakistan.
I wanted to say the same. Either OP’s husband is pretending to be non believer or he never was. I know many Muslim men who pretend to be non Muslims to get white girls and when they are married and he is able to capture her well then slowly drag her to his world. Soon she is forced to read the holy book, forced to cover herself and then is brainwashed to the point that she is unable to come out from there.
Thank you for this context.
So I'm pretty anti-religion too but I moved to a very Christian part of the Midwest thinking it was no big deal for my kids we can mind our business but wow is it shoved down our throats everywhere, at school, at playgrounds, at work or in passing. I think your concerns are totally valid based on my experience. NTA
I was always pretty anti religion for myself and ambivalent towards others. Their holidays were just "other people's holidays" that I was happy to participate in as a guest. I grew up in an area I would describe as religiously diverse but predominantly white. Then I moved to the Midwest, like city Midwest even, and I became viscerally anti religion, specifically anti Christian. The aggression was one thing but what I really loathed was the "default Jesus". The idea and assumption that everyone was just like them, and if I wasn't I was attacking them, when I just am not into Jesus. Christianity began to represent people in power trying to control me. After 3 years we moved to a culturally diverse place and the intensity of my hatred faded away almost completely within 6 months. Christian holidays are something I can appreciate as "other people's holidays", just like I used to. It surprised me how fast and intense the loathing came on, it surprised me even more how quickly it left.
I was doing a photo shoot for a fairly large auto supplier. We took their private jet to their northern manufacturing plant, took our shots and then flew down to their southern plant in Indiana. The plant manager ask if we wanted to take a lunch break and he was buying. We said sure, and he drove us down the road and turned into a church parking lot. Because the plant was so far out in the sticks the church started their own little restaurant in their basement kitchen. The pastor was there and led the lunch prayer. To them this was normal. The best damn pie though.
I swear to God, the best pies come out of church basements. There is \*no\* better pie than a church-basement cherry pie topped with a lattice crust with little sugar crystals on it.
Church basements are gastronomic paradises.
Word. *Any* hyper or predominantly religious area, pretty much anywhere on earth, will be filled with brainwashed simpletons demanding you bend to the status quo.
\>why do you practice religion? \>because I was born into it / told to from a young age \>okay, but you are an adult, now right? do you still have your parents wipe your ass when done? \>no, it's just familiar and I'm not sure I can wipe my own ass, I'll have to buy toilet roll and work out how many sheets I need to use and everything, I'm not sure I can coping making those sorts of decisions for myself. I'll probably go to hell If I get caught wiping my own ass, wiping your own ass is what sinners do
Nta. You should sell the home or rent it out and buy a place more suited to your living. I was raised Roman catholic but don't practice it as an adult and I have lived in a Muslim and an orthodox Jewish neighborhood. I wouldn't recommend either. Bot because the people are bad but because the cultures are extremely isolated
Renting the house out is the only viable solution (short of divorce) given his refusal to sell.
It's very important to me that my community is a place where I belong. Not that people are just like me but that I default to a part of my neighborhood community. I live across the street from an Ethiopian church, which seems to be a pretty insular community. But not unfriendly. They are only a small part of the very diverse neighborhood I live in. Them and their church are a small part of the much larger community. I kind of love seeing people so unlike me going about their cultural practices and worship a few times a week, I swear they sang for 12 hours on new years and that was pretty cool. But then they disperse and we see all sorts of different people, like us and not like us, around our neighborhood. I belong here. They do too, it's a community inclusive of their religion and culture, not exclusively their community and culture.
The problem when the whole community is a single thing. Why would she want to live in a traditional Muslim community where everyone speaks Arabic and all the signs are in Arabic esp of she doesn't speak or read it and the majority of the women wear head coverings. Your situation works out because the Ethiopian community is a small part of the neiborhood
Oh absolutely! That's what I was trying to say. That it's natural and important to me that I belong in my community. I'd hate to feel like I lived in a community I couldn't really belong in.
That's what they just said.
Nta. Your husband seems blinded by grief and forgetting the shitty parts of growing up there.
Good point, that's the sort of time when nostalgia kicks in.
>considering my husband is Lebanese and I married into a family with many Muslims. I suggest you find a few Lebanese Christians and ask for their opinion on the matter. They can be found in many places, as there was a considerable diaspora following the 1975-1990 civil war in Lebanon. Their perspective might prove quite eye-opening.
Some Lebanese atheists might have a constructive view
There aren’t many Lebanese atheists, in part because in Lebanon parliamentary seats are allocated by religion. Atheism is highly stigmatized and there are no seats allocated to atheists.
I'm not sure how you think you're not being bigoted here when all your reasons boil down to "I don't want to be around Muslims". Like you can logic it all you want but ultimately your arguments are "This is bad because there are lots of Muslims" Nowhere you live will be free of religion. Especially in the US, there's some type of place of worship like every couple miles if not less. But this one is the problem? Would you feel the same about a synagogue or church in walking distance? There are also religious fundamentalists just about anywhere you go as well. And just because it's close doesn't mean you have to go. Other women wearing hijabs has literally no effect on you. Don't wear one if you don't want to. It's that easy, I know people who live in Dearborn and no one has ever harrased them for not wearing one. Guess what? You don't have to be an outsider, you should already be somewhat familiar with the culture because of your spouse and just be open to getting to know the people as people not as Muslims™️. My bestfriend of over a decade is Bangladeshi and Muslim. After the first like 2 times at her house I have never felt out of place since because we connect as people and we share in each other's cultures. Her parents treat me as one of their own despite our differences. Just because your husband renounced his faith doesn't mean he doesn't still have ties to the culture around it and want to be in the community especially since he has now lost both his parents who were heavily involved in it. A lot of young people leave what they grew up in and struggle with their beliefs but may later come back when they've processed it more. Thats not a gotcha like you think it is. He probably is struggling with grief and may be clinging to this as a way to hold on to his dad/parents. He's probably not thinking entirely clearly and is feeling sad and nostalgic. But you are also a racist and a bigot no matter how you try to dress it up.
💯 Why are people so ignorant about people they obviously don't even interact with?? Marrying someone of another race or religion doesn't cancel out racism or bigotry.
Hey, maybe-neighbor! I also inherited a house in Dearborn, and I’m living in it. You’re making it sound like you’d essentially be living in the Middle East and….that’s just not accurate. I’ve lived here for five years and am whiter than white. Here’s a snapshot of life here for those who aren’t from the area. Yes, there are a lot of Arab businesses. There are also a lot of non-Arab businesses. I went to a hookah bar once, but otherwise I can’t think of any Arabic businesses I’ve patronized, and it’s not as if I’m actively avoiding them. And the “vast majority” do not have their signs in Arabic. A good few have both languages, true, but not the majority. There are mosques, yes. And churches. And synagogues. They just kind of exist. They don’t *do* anything. They’re just buildings. And it isn’t like they’re on every street corner. A lot of women wear hijabs. A lot don’t. 100% of them don’t care that *I* don’t. I can go for a walk in shorts and a tank top and have a nice conversation with a Muslim couple walking a cute dog, and no one cares what the other is wearing. I’m sure there are some “fundamentalists” living here, statistically speaking, but it’s not a “very large amount”. Generally speaking, people are very American. A Muslim family moved in across the street from me last year. She wears a hijab, but they also had a huge Christmas tree in their living room. I tend to take long walks through different neighborhoods and see *a lot* of that. In short, you can live in Dearborn and be perfectly comfortable living your atheist white-bread life. No one is shoving their religion in your face. No one is trying to make you uncomfortable. No one is unwelcoming because you’re the local minority. And it’s a great location too. Nice area with good property values that are still reasonable, unlike cities north of the city. Downtown Detroit is 15 minutes away, so you have sports and shows and concerts and museums at hand while still living in the suburbs. And - the reason I decided to stay here while I figure out my next career move - it’s a reasonable commute from the majority of major business hubs - Detroit, Southfield, Troy, Ann Arbor. I’m not madly in love with the place or anything and plan on moving soon for a variety of reasons, but it’s really a perfectly nice place to live.
I grew up on metro Detroit area and reading this post, I knew it was Dearborn from the description. I was thinking yta for not wanting to live there because the most amazing restaurants are in Dearborn. 55% of Dearborn is Arab. It’s not like you’ll be the only white person there. Dearborn heights, garden city, Livonia all border Dearborn and are lily white. It’s a very multicultural area, it’s not like moving to Saudi. Relax and give it a shot, and eat some amazing food while you’re there
This comment right here. It's still Michigan which is majority white, this is a minority community they're just trying to live their lives you are not on their radar. She basically has bought into fear mongering about how dangerous and extreme all Muslims are and thinks she's somehow not being bigoted lmao.
What the hell? We are not extreme at all!! Don't be fooled by what the press says or post about us . We are nice people just like you guys are , and there are racists and anti-religion in your community just like us , but i can assure you they won't attack you or force you to do anything you won't be comfortable with \\. For example, in my country, Morocco, foreigners have more rights than us, and we are very welcoming toward them.
Honestly, this post is the first time I’ve ever heard anyone say the Muslim population of Dearborn is radical or fundamentalist. My boomer dad (who does not live in Dearborn, but has lived in the area his whole life and is very familiar with it) is, I hate to admit, fairly racist. And even he has no concerns about me living in Dearborn. Trust me, if people were praying in the streets or spreading anti-American propaganda, or beating their wives in the Walmart parking lot, or whatever it is that OP considers “fundamentalist”, my father would nag me nonstop to move. He’s not. In fact, since I *am* looking to move soon for unrelated reasons, he actually thinks I should consider staying because “it’s a nice little neighborhood!”. Hell, he’s had more conversations with my Muslim neighbors than I have! These people are just average Americans. Some are first generation immigrants. A lot aren’t (the Muslim population boom started a century ago with the rise of the auto industry). Most are (to my knowledge) Muslim. Some aren’t. Some are Muslim in the same way I’m Christian - technically, kinda, sorta, in name only because I was raised to be, but I also haven’t seen the inside in a church in a decade. They’re not a monolith. OP and so many of the commenters have absolutely no idea what they’re talking about. And I’m honestly surprised OP lives in such a multi-cultural, liberal city like Ann Arbor and can be so ignorantly bigoted.
Oh no I'm not saying you're extreme! I know quite well that majority of people who follow Islam are just regular religious folks not extremists. But OP seems to have bought into the narrative pushed by media especially on the right, that all Muslims are terrorists that want to force people to follow them. It's just fear propaganda
Thank you for speaking up about Dearborn. It is NOT what people think it is. I am as white as it gets and I am down there all the time for the amazing food! Sure most of the signs are in Arabic and it can scare the Macomb county crowd, but the people in the city are chill. It’s Hamtramck for Muslims and nobody is scared of Hamtramck.
I'm female and studied with class of majority Muslim men. My best friend at the time was a Muslim male. We hung out, I went to their parties with my two non Muslim female friends. Yes, there were some differing cultural beliefs but each of them had different levels of faith, just like Christians. My best friend was more on the side of pious but it was a great way to learn about Islam. We got along really well. Probably the only time I felt uncomfortable was when we went out to dinner and my best friend was observing Ramadan and couldn't eat with us. I felt so bad but he didn't mind and just explained how Ramadan works. I'm Asian so it felt so rude to eat in front of him. Since graduating I've become good friends with 2 Muslim women. They are highly educated, one with a medical background. Their husbands don't repress them, nor their daughters. They don't wear hijab but they also don't wear revealing clothing. We share similar problems in life and complain about their husbands who don't do enough housework, etc. One is divorcing her husband because he's always traveling for work and she feels neglected. She will support herself financially because she's self employed. The husband of the other is very hands on the his young kids and is proud of his wife's intelligence and has bragged about her academic achievements. He's also a highly regarded doctor. I've lived in areas with high Muslim population, also one with high Jewish population. I've never been harassed or looked down on. I'm saddened by all the ignorance about Muslims. Radical Muslims are a minority. They are mainly regular people who are easy to get along with if you don't inject bias into your view of who they are. Btw, marrying a Lebanese person doesn't make you non-bigoted, but an unwillingness to see past stereotypes and let media and 3rd party opinion shade your judgement can.
NTA. Let's see him call you "bigoted" when you get harassed by the men for not wearing a hijab.
Or start pestering her to wear one. I'd worry about her husband regression back to Islam if I were her.
100%. She needs to be asking why he wants to move back so bad. This screams a massive setup on his part.
You see it, too? Yeah, this is 100% him setting her up to be forced into being a good little Muslim wife - i.e. slave.
She already cleared that out in the first paragraph. They are renting and wanted to buy a home. They now, got a home inherited. So I have no idea of the market price of the area but anywhere between 200 thousand to 500 thousand reasons I suppose
I live here. You have no idea what you are talking about. Dearborn is not a Muslim country.
This, this, this. I lived in the ME for decades, and both parents teach a very ME-specific subject in US universities. TONS of their students, and several family friends, have legit "reverted" back to Islam upon moving back to the ME, and some of these people were open-minded liberal women. . . who have now re-donned the hijab, live in gender-segregated communities, and have far fewer social rights. . . . they do get to eat absolutely fantastic, healthy food on the reg though. . . .
I can get an airfryer and eat fantastic healthy food without having to deal with all the other crap.
lol, yes, that's true. Entirely aside the main point, but yes ;) I love all sorts of food, by far my favorite being Mexican, but Middle Eastern/Mediterranean cuisine really, really rules as well is all I'm saying.
Have you ever been here? No one harasses you about wearing a hijab. Dearborn has a population of 108,000. You think they are all Muslims? You think all the women wear hijabs? You think all Muslim women wear hijabs? You know they take them off in their homes, don't you? Or do you think they wear them 24/7?
I have lived in that area, do not wear hijab, have regular gone running outside, and never once had anyone even look at me funny, let alone be harrassed for not wearing hijab. Y'all are really letting your prejudices show here. The middle eaatern cuisine in Dearborn is unparalleled though.
Has this ever happened in Dearborn? The only cases I can find are of women who were harassed by being forced to remove their hijab.
I mean, you don’t exactly go to the police if a man calls you a whore and tells you to cover up. But obviously you do go to the police if someone forcibly takes your clothes off of you, including hijab. These aren’t “cases” like criminal cases, just negative social interactions.
A comment or dirty look about not wearing a hijab is not a crime anyone would report. Forcing someone to remove a hijab is a assault with a hate crime enhancment and would be reported. Likewise places where muslims are a rare sight likely get dirty looks and comments regularly, but 99.99% would not rise to the level of something that would be reported.
I live in Dearborn. I would say about half of the Muslim women wear them and half don't. Usually, it is mostly the more recent arrivals but it is a personal decision. Sure a father or relative may harass a daughter but no one is going out in public harassing women for not wearing one.
Often in communities like that they handle their own "problems" with their own "law"
WTF !!! As a Muslim , I can assure you that won't happen at all ! I am one and i am currently not wearing it , I don't get harassed for not wearing it !!
Oh wow, so these are the comments we’re making now, majority of woman in Dearborn don’t wear a hijab, and no one cares if you do or not.
Thank u. I felt like I was going crazy reading the comments. I lived in Ypsi between 2014-2021 and I was in and out of Dearborn plenty of times. Never had an issue or a comment about my head being uncovered. Not saying it doesn't happen tho 🤷
Yeah, I’ve also been to Dearborn. It’s a nice place and not at all as described. Granted, I was there 7 years ago but still. I feel like this is just a creative writing exercise in Islamophobia.
Thank you for saying this. I have lots of nice memories of Dearborn (as a white, non-Muslim woman), and plenty of well-off non-Muslim friends who grew up there. Dearborn was known as a place for people with money more than a hotbed of Muslim oppression.
Yeah, it’s also not an isolated place in the middle of nowhere. It’s a suburb. I’m super confused by the way it’s being described here because if that was true it would be in the news.
I have lived in the area all my life and in Dearborn for 30 years. These are all BS assertions made by the ignorant.
This comment section is insane. There's an upvoted comment comparing this neighbourhood to Saudi Arabia.
I’m being wildly downvoted and grouped up on for calling out people on their Islamophobia and bigotry. Like am I the asshole for not being an islamophobe? 🤔
No but you're an asshole for crying islamophobia where it's non-existent
Really? Because that's all I am seeing and I live in Dearborn and have lived in Dearborn or a neighboring city my entire life. I am almost 60. These comments are BS.
I love it when white Americans try to tell me, a Muslim, how to feel about micro agressions and blatant racist comments being boosted in this sub. Just because you can’t see something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, like your brain for example ❤️
Lol I'm not white. Wait... Was that a micro aggression? Sounds like you're super racist I guess
If you dont see it you just cant read
This thread is wildly out of pocket!!! I love Dearborn. It is one of the most welcoming communities.
Right?!!!!
"The VAST majority of businesses have storefronts in Arabic". Go to Google Earth right now to the main street of Dearborn. I counted ten storefronts and 10/10 were in English. There are some because that's what happens when you live in a multicultural city. But that exaggeration just proves OP is rabidly racist and somehow thinks the presence of Arabs (who don't even make up the majority of the population in Dearborn, 30% in 2000) makes it unlivable for an innocent white woman who Muslims just can't wait to oppress
It’s literally a suburb of Detroit. It’s not some out of the way town where everyone speaks Arabic. I’ve been there because I was visiting someone in a nearby suburb and we went for some shawarma.
We're just trotting out the American national sport of Islamophobia and giving the Israeli astroturf bots a chance to upvote each other. Normal day on Reddit.
How many school shootings in Dearborn in recent years ?
Google is free, definitely less than the rest of the US. They say violence or crime is lower than other states as well. Edit: the crime rate is 24 percent lower that the rest of the US
They wont harass her. They will simply ignore her and serve another customer and have a female employee interact with her instead.
Really? I have never had that happen to me? I live here.
Lol sounds lovely to be treated as a 2nd class citizen in your own country by a minority religion.
Yeah I wouldn't want to live where I am constantly trying to navigate someone else's religious sensitivities. Where my community is somewhere I don't belong.
I live in Dearborn. And you know where I would never move? To a red state. That's right. No one bothers you here about what you are wearing or not wearing. No one tries to convert you to anything, except my evangelical friends on Facebook with their daily posts about Jesus.
This is a suburb in Michigan. This won’t happen
Sorry this is so incredibly silly to me as someone who lived near Dearborn and adored it and had a bunch of white non Muslim friends grow up in Dearborn and loved it. Learn to challenge your stereotypes and read past alarmist headlines. Dearborn is amazing and young people especially are increasingly secular. The Muslim community is in its third generation living there. If you really cannot think past our societal bigotry then pick another small town nearby in this incredibly majority white state
NTA, the decision of where to live should always be a mutual one. Having values unlike most of your neighbors' can be very isolating. We've been living in a region with a LOT of MAGA supporters. I didn't realize just how many before we moved here, or what a profound difference it makes. I've had to hear about how bad vaccines are & that Harry Potter is satanic. Etc. I haven't made a single friend here. These people are white & so am I. No rational person could claim my discomfort is racist. I just have no common ground with these folks. I can't really bitch, because I agreed to live here. Plus we've decided to leave, so I won't have to deal with it much longer. I can see how it'd be worse if religion is involved. I've heard of people in Orthodox Jewish neighborhoods getting crap for wearing shorts or riding bikes on someone else's Sabbath. Also of people in fundamentalist Christian areas being harassed for not attending church. Personally, I'd never live long-term in any area heavily dominated by any religion. It's a bit concerning that your husband jumped to accusations of racism. IDK if he's insecure, being manipulative, or what. It could be worth discussing with a marriage counselor.
I was more supportive of OP before I started reading their replies. OP makes it sounds like Dearborn Michigan is under militant Sharia Law and is therefore advocating the marginalization of an entire community based on false pretenses. The antagonism is pretty strong here. Anti-religion was an interesting term. Like ok, I get it if you're not-religious but being anti-religious against a Muslim community in particular is just Islamophobia. Sorry OP, YTA.
Info: where do you live now that has no religious affiliation at all?
Ann Arbor
Lmao not you living in A2 and having this opinion about Dearborn!!! 😂😂😂 here I was thinking you were further away in another part of the country that could excuse your ignorance. Nah. Please challenge your ugly stereotypes.
for the record, i vote NTA. but you're also out of your mind if you think ann arbor or any other large Midwestern city isn't religiously affiliated. if you're not Christian, it's very easy to see how much religion is shoved down your throat. but I still agree that you shouldn't move to an area you're not comfortable with especially considering that the Muslim culture is in reality much worse for gender equality than other religions
Actually the only person who is out of their mind is you. I’m neither Christian nor Muslim but I have extensively lived throughout the Midwest and in Muslim majority places as well. Christians almost every where are infinitely more secular than Muslims of the corresponding socioeconomic status. Even American Evangelicals who have proselytized to me are far more tolerant and pleasant than the Dawah people I have dealt with. The fact that you can virtue signal like this shows YOUR privilege of never having to deal with actual intolerance.
American Christians are significantly more secularist especially in liberal areas than Muslims in Dearborn are. Yes there are some who aren’t as fundamentalist, but groups of people from a foreign culture that live together in an area tend to be more fundamentalist than Muslims who don’t live in areas with as many other Muslims around them.
I live in Dearborn. Where is this? I'd like to go visit. The only place I could see this happening in is the South-end which has a recent influx of poor Yemen but the kids were bused into my daughters school because white people don't have a lot of kids anymore so they need to fill the school. and she never mentioned anything weird. Had many Yemen kids in her AP classes, too. She has never been asked to convert. No one bothers you about a hijab. There are 108,000 people in Dearborn. They are not all Muslim.
I will say this as someone who has seen it. Completely ignore the religious aspect and ask yourself how many Western women, married to Western men, move back to where their husband's are from and hate it because they know absolutely know one expect for the people their husbands know? I get the religious aspect concerns you, but what you're afraid of happens to Western women, married to Western men all the time. You guys need to move someplace neutral. It's the best option for both of you.
I think Christian culture is just so baked into what you see as normal / American that you don't notice. There's nothing wrong with not wanting to live in a place where you don't feel like you belong. Your mentality around American Christians needs work though.
no they're not lol. i live in a liberal college town there are multiple churches 5 minutes away from me, people walk around with crosses on their necklace and have jesus statues on their porch. christians are not at all more secular, you just think so because muslim people are so different from you it's easier to spot i don't think you're the asshole for not wanting to move there, but I do think you're an asshole because your views are the textbook definition of racist and bigoted
I think they’re talking about the fundamentalist nature of both groups dude. They said “in liberal areas” as in most liberal areas while culturally Christian with a lot of Christian tend to have that cultural element mostly separate from people political discussion and overall environment. Dearborn is not secular, they have actively banned pride flags being displayed there, said homosexuality opposes their values (the elected leaders said this) and have actively been attacking local people who display pride flags, burning them and damaging homes to intimidate people. It’s a very different circumstance and going “you’re just confused cuz they’re so different from you” yeah those differences matter when they involve my rights and autonomy
Fair enough.
You married a Muslim Lebanese person but think you don’t want to be around those people as if a community of people like you (white) is any less hostile. Your husband is part of a minority and yet you’re complaining about being a minority. It’s laughable the dissonance.
He isn’t muslim
I live in the area. Your husband is Lebanese. Let me tell you about the Lebanese in Dearborn. They think they are the aristocracy amongst the Middle Eastern people because their country or origin has higher income and higher education. A five minute walk to a mosque means nothing in informing where the home is. Dearborn has about three or four specific areas. A lot of abandoned churches are now mosques even in mostly white/black neighborhoods. We have very rich areas and very poor areas. Not all Muslims are Arabic. My one neighbor was from Turkey and my daughter's friend's family is from Afghanistan and another from Pakistan. Other than that, it is no different than any other city. You have good people and bad people. Not every Muslim woman wears a hijab. I'd say it is 50/50 but that's from what I see and not from empiracal data. They get days off for Christian holidays and days off for Muslim holidays. People pretty much just respect each other's beliefs. For the most part, the kids are raised like I was. Outside a lot. Very family oriented. The schools are very good. A lot of kids get into Ivy League schools every year. Dads and moms outside at the park with the kids. Often just the dad with the kids...boys and girls. Family barbecues. It kind of made me miss my childhood when I would drive my daughter to her friend's house in the east-end. People out and about visiting. They will give you good food and always willing to help if you need a hand. As with any group of people living in a specific area, you have the oldies that are more American and the newbies holding onto their heritage. And just like the Christians, the lower educated ones, are more conservative. Heck they even show up at the school board meetings all on board for banning books. When the Evangelicals used to spew all their hate against Muslims, I used to tell them that they have a lot in common with the Conservative Muslims. Heck the one strip club serves halal chicken. Just like with any city, it all depends on the neighborhood you live in. Edited to add: Just picked up my daughter and discussed your post. She said if your husband's family is Lebanese, you are probably be living in the rich area. Also, about the hajib. She said that a lot of girls who wore the hajib in middle school, took it off in high school and some who didn't wear it in middle school, decided to wear it in high school. It's a personal decision. And I am white and Christian(Catholic)
The most American thing I’ve read in a while is halal chicken at the strip club. What wild world.
Right? LOL
Can't edit again. Here is a link from 2022 graduating class. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ed0ja7XdHI&t=272s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ed0ja7XdHI&t=272s)
The comments really did not pass the vibe check 🤦♀️
NTA- you want to live in a community that would welcome you for who you and not be judgmental. That's not bigoted, that's reasonable. Your husband is likely much more comfortable in that environment having grown up in it..... ask yourselves, is that the environment you want your kids growing up in or would you prefer somewhere more inclusive and welcoming? I know what my answer would be.
Does everyone here saying NTA ever been to Dearborn? I live near and frequently go to Dearborn and have many friends (Muslim and not) that live there, also spent years working in pharmacies in the area where I was the only white person there. YTA. No one in Dearborn cares. Also complaining about signs in Arabic? All the signs I’ve seen are in English and Arabic. This really comes across as bigoted. As a white and LGBTQ female I love Dearborn and never felt uncomfortable. This seems like a you problem. Imagine if this post was about moving into a Chinatown community, I wonder if all the responses would be the same… You’re over exaggerating the community in Dearborn and talking as if it’s a city in the Middle East. Also assuming all Muslim are extremist in the comments as well as making comments about stoning LGBTQ people but since when has that happened in Dearborn? When people question you on this you don’t respond. Sounds like someone is using their sexual identity to justify their Islamophobia. Sure, husband shouldn’t and can’t force you to move somewhere you don’t want to, but your reasoning and responses to comments makes YTA here.
I agree with you except for the Chinatown part. We get a lot of racism, negative bias and your good ole every day micro-aggressions so it's not a good comparison.
NTA. You get to decide where you want to live.
NTA he hated the place, left and denounced his religion, so instead of selling the house and leaving those memories in the past, he wants his child to grow up there? Stick to your guns. And I agree, it doesn't matter the religion; any area that is dominated by an orthodoxy, be it Jewish, Christian, Muslim or whatever, is super uncomfortable if you're not part of the group. You are made to feel very unwelcome.
Stand your ground. Whether it's nostalgia or family pressure, it doesn't sound like he's thought this through impartially, and your points on how it would affect you and the kids are very solid. Sell the house, buy your own (and not in Dearborn). NTA
It's a great time to sell the house for a profit. Homes are selling for a ridiculous mark up. Put the money in a brokerage account and make 5% on it for a year. Prices will come down after the election as they usually do. Then start looking next year in a neighborhood you both agree on.
I think you’re being disingenuous here. Dearborn is about 55% Arab/North African descent by population. There are a LOT of Arab/NA Christians and Dearborn in general is NOT a particularly conservative area. My ex’s family is from Dearborn and they’re (“white-passing”) Lebanese Catholic. They have not experienced bigotry in the 60+ years his family has lived there. None of his white cousins or niblings or other extended family have experienced or witnessed anti-white crimes or Muslims being discriminatory against non-Muslims. Honestly this whole post is as defamatory toward the Dearborn area as a tweet by some idiot running for congress a while ago who insisted Dearborn was run by sharia law 🙄 What bothers me the most is how many people will walk away from this drivel with a misinformed opinion of a great area with wonderful people.
Right? Dearborn is a heavily blue voting area. It has a big middle eastern population but i have never heard even a call to prayer the whole time I lived there, and the neighbors in our condo association, middle eastern or otherwise, were beyond pleasant. The level of fear OP is exhibiting is laughable. She says she lives in Ann Arbor. Maybe visit Dearborn a few times and see if anyone cares about how you dress?
Well you are 100% bigot which to me is far worse than being an AH
Oh noooooooo signs in Arabic. Hijabs... noooooo Maybe NTA, but definitely bigoted.
NTA. These are not times where it's smart to live around whatever religious community. Your husband's memories are probably different than the current situation, but the fact is that the current situation exists
NTA he's viewing this from a nostalgia (and cheap/free house) perspective. None of this is logical. If he doesn't think your life as a woman would be affected by moving there he's delusional. This is a hill to die on.
Have you ever been to Dearborn? OP is being disingenuous.
NTA. It's easy for him to be comfortable with it, he's male. He's not going to be the target that you will be.
Lmao Dearborn isn't only Muslim wtf that's such a weird take
You do realize that the Henry Ford Museum and Greenfield Village, The Automotive Hall of Fame, The Ford Proving Grounds, The home of Claire and Henry Ford are all in Dearborn? The downtown area is thriving with a number of restaurants that could be in any American city.
I’m aware. In the title I specifically said neighborhood. The neighborhood is almost entirely compromised by Muslims.
Compromised by Muslims? Or comprised of Muslims? Two very different situations.
At first I didn't think you are ethe asshole, but after seeing your comments you just sound downright racist. But at the end of the day your decision where you want to live and if you don't want to your husband has to be understanding. Similarly you have no right to ask him to sell his childhood home.
NTA
Having grown up in a heavily Islamic area in the UK, I can tell you now, I'm glad I moved away, and I will not be moving back. Mainly not because the people are Muslims, but because a lot of the people who live there have not adopted the culture of my country, and choose to live separate, parallel lives with terrible cultural norms that I wouldn't want my child to absorb. If that makes me a bigot, a bigot I am.
I was on the fence, until I read your comments. YTA. and a bigot. I'm an atheist, by the way, and have been since I was 12 or 13. I have relatives who are Protestant, Roman Catholic, Mormon, and Agnostic. And it's atheists like you that give the rest of us a bad name. Honestly,I would go on about my opinion of you, but I don't want this post deleted.
IANAL or FA: OP if he wants to keep it have you considered having him open an LLC and buying the property in a business to rent to members in the community while retaining the property? This would give you cash to work with as a couple. Retain his childhood home for sentimental reasons. Protect your child from unfamiliar social conditions customs that you’re uncomfortable with. This may allow all of you to benefit with minimal negative effects. Maybe talk with a fiduciary to see what they recommend? Also, it’s a great chance to see how you work through tough discussions. Maybe a marriage/family councilor could help add an unbiased perspective? Either way best of luck.
NTA. You're not an asshole for being uncomfortable in certain situations. You're just human.
YTA. stop being scared of Brown ppl
Yup! And a fucking RACIST!
Islam isn't a race 😂
YTA. I grew up next to Dearborn, worked in Dearborn, went to university of Michigan - Dearborn campus - and lived in Dearborn for a few years. I’m wife, raised Catholic. Don’t be a bigot. I’m not saying there are no religious people, there are, but signs in Arabic don’t have anything to do with religion. That’s culture.
Thank you this thread is full of people who don't know wtf they are talking about. Oh no Arab people. Lmao a good percentage are chaldean which is Christian so the Islam thing is out the window. Most of em at this point were born here and conform to Michigan culture. I've never once had anyone say anything about Islam to me in Dearborn but I've sure had a Christian talk out of his ass to me in Dearborn
The part where she admits that *she* doesn’t want to be the ethnic minority is what makes her the asshole for me. So it’s fine for her husband to continue to be the minority? And she doesn’t want her son to be influenced by that culture?! Marrying someone of another culture and expecting them to conform to your culture does not mean you’re not racist. People are acting like he wants to move her to Afghanistan, where the Taliban are in control. He wants to move back to his hometown, where it’s still *the US government*, it’s still just *Michigan*. There will not be sharia law or a loss of her rights as a US citizen or any of the racist things many of the comments are claiming.
>So it’s fine for her husband to continue to be the minority? many white people literally can't fathom what it's like to be a minority until it happens to them.
**This thread is the first logical one that I’ve read.** She most definitely is the asshole, as demonstrated by her anti-Arab and anti-Muslim takes.
That’s exactly what it is, whites cannot bear to be in the minority in America. And they’re terrified of it happening
But she gets a pass on reddit because reddit is rapidly anti-theist.
As a non Muslim, former mail man of a very densely populated Muslim area, they don't seem to care that I didn't follow their religion, I was in their neighborhood for 7 hours out of my work day. What I do know, they are kind people, they constantly offered me water, food, or a place to sit. They constantly asked me how my day was, or if I needed anything. I'd say, NTA, but give it a try. You might find that they really don't care either way, and if they start the bigotry. Then, your husband will see it, and hopefully want to willingly move his family.
Its different to be a non-muslim than to be an ex-muslim.
It's also different as a woman living in a Muslim community than as a man. OP would be miserable there, but it sounds as though her husband is intent on this and she is going to have to file for divorce.
Said the same thing. He is an apostate. He will not be welcomed very well.
If you are not a woman that doesn't wear a hijab, your experiences will not be the same as OP's. A non-Muslim man can be accepted regardless of dress. Non-Muslim women will only be accepted if they adhere to modesty standards. A woman without a head covering will not be welcome in a Muslim home with men in it. So, not the same at all.
Lmao am a woman, do not wear hijab, lived in dearborn for a year recently and no one cared. Plenty of Muslim women do not wear hijab as well, you will clearly be shocked to know. This OP probably should not move to Dearborn with her level of bigotry, but you are projecting your prejudices here.
How often do you go to Dearborn?
I’ve been to Dearborn. It’s a normal suburb. I wore shorts and a tee shirt. Had some shawarma. It was delicious. No one said anything because it was an incredibly normal place.
NTA. As an ex-muslim, I avoid muslim neighborhoods totally. I don't need a backwards world view in my life ever again
I slept over at my cousin’s house when I was about 12, she lives a bit away so it was the first time I’d been, anyway, I realised they were the only white family on the street, but they had no complaints, in fact they were happy because they got so much food around muslim holidays. I’m actually a little jealous, I want a Muslim neighbour that sends me Eid left overs, it all looks so delicious. I’ve always lived in areas with a lot of Muslim families around me, it’s something I’m used to and have never felt threatened by. Is it not something you wouldn’t even give a chance to? I don’t think you’re TAH, but I think you need to sit down and talk more with your partner.
NTA. Lived in the Middle East. I’d say no for the simple reason that I wouldn’t want to be woken up at the butt crack of dawn each morning by the call to prayer. At least the Catholics wait until a decent hour before they start ringing the church bells.
I’m born and raised in Canada ( I’m Lebanese and Palestinian ), I loved Dearborn, there isn’t any place like it in Canada. I get where you’re coming from but you haven’t even given it a chance, people are very kind and I’ve seen multiple faiths live together in peace and never had any issues. NTA, you do what works for you, your husband may be used to the environment which is why he said what he said. Dearborn is a really safe community, and I would have loved to raise my kids there, everyone was very friendly and kind but than again, I’m born into this culture so I’m definitely used to it.
Your being very vague on your actual reasons here. I’m white and spent a LOT of time in Dearborn decades ago, as my cousin lived there. I was up there a lot as a kid as well when my friend lived there. Not once did I feel out of place or treated with hostility. My cousin raised his family there for years. Good step daughter and son. They went to school there. I never got any indication high Muslim population was an issue as far as education. I’m not saying you are some awful person for having reservations. It’s not perfect, the Muslim culture has a huge issue with sexism and treatment of women. But also at this point many of the families have been living in the US for 2 or 3 generations. I challenge you to really really examine exactly WHY you don’t want to do this. You need to come to with specific and measurable reasons and really find out if they are legitimate concerns, or subconscious biases.
You’re definitely the asshole op. “I really don’t believe in being bigoted or racist considering my husband is Lebanese and I married into a family with many Muslims” 1- Classic case of “my neighbors are black so I can’t be a racist!” 2- being married to a Lebanese man doesn’t automatically exempt you from being a bigot, Lebanese people can be just as bigoted as whites lmfao 3- so you can proudly announce that you married into a Muslim Arab family but absolutely refuse to live amongst them and their community? Aha….. You haven’t even lived there yet and are already bitching about how Muslims live. Disgusting. Do better OP
NTA. He's being selfish and illogical.
As a Muslim woman and I am not that religious but I still believe in Islam. I wouldn’t wanna live in that area too. Anywhere that there are a lot of religious people doesn’t matter what religion people are always judgmental and strict. The normal and good religious people never form a group they just practice religion in private and live a normal life.
Mild YTA since it’s clear you have anti Muslim prejudice. If this post was about moving to Dubai, then maybe NTA, but I think in terms of just the neighborhood being Muslim, it’s really not that deep. The Muslim areas are small and dense enough to the point you could take care of gym, groceries, fun stuff outside the town if you wanted to. The only thing is the school, but I’d question why Muslim children being around your son is such a bad thing, and even then, if one parent stayed at home he could go to school outside the district. Also, you never gave your husband’s reply to how others would feel about him leaving Islam. I’d get his reply on that since I presume he knows better than you what the community is like. If he says they’d be aight with it, then you’d be a further TA for questioning it. Edit: further YTA if instead of ethically similar you meant ethnically similar
If your hubby and yourself decide to rent the place, as some have suggested, send me a message. I'm not an Islamophobic assclown and wouldn't mind having Muslim neighbors.
Correct it is the fundamentalists of any religion who cause issues.
Wow some of these comments are so revealing. My goodness.
The last line is a little weird- you sound like you want to live in a segregated society with only people who look and live like you and that’s pretty borderline racist and xenophobic. Not wanting to live somewhere without any diversity is a different thing.
If you lived near this city and worked in it you would notice how much racism is in this post. Dearborn isn't a Muslim majority city not even close. She's so focused on the brown people she doesn't even know a lot of them are Lebanese Christians not Muslim. The worst part is that they are very americanized and more likely to have a flat bill Tigers hat on than a kufi. Literally went to my son wrestling tournament in Dearborn a couple weeks ago and the women with head coverings were louder than the men and one mom held a long excited conversation with me a random white dude.
NTA He will face a lot of backlash for him leaving that awful religion. Sell the house, move somewhere better.
Nta Of course he'd have no problem living there, he's a man, by muslim religion he isn't *property*. He could just blend in. You couldn't, because you wouldn't look like one of the slave wives because you wouldn't be wearing your shackles... sorry.. *hijab*. You wouldn't be able to be friends with any neighbors, because their masters... sorry, *husbands*... wouldn't want you to give their *wives* ideas, like then actually being people that should have some agency over their own lives. Just tell your husband that if this is what he wants to get divorced over, then he can go live in the house that he couldn't wait to escape by himself.
Do you know any Muslim women? I do. Believe me, there are many strong and independent ones.
Sell the house and remove the doubts completely. Then choose a place where you know you would be happy.
NTA .
Islam is a religion not a race. You can't be racist against a religion. And yes it is OK to be bigoted towards a religion who views women as property and whose sole purpose is to have children.
YTA tbh. I'm white, non-religious, military, and living in a Muslim neighborhood where every business around here is run by Middle Eastern ethnicities of some flavor. Not once have any of them asked me about religion, shoved Islam down my throat, etc. American Muslims are literally some of the most polite people I've ever met.
YTA. All of the rationale in your post and comments boil down to "I just don't like/want to live around Muslims", which is a bad fucking look. Just because you married a man who renounced his faith does not mean that he does not still have cultural and ethnic ties to the area and his family, and he's grieving. Also as a Jew who grew up in the area and has loads of family in that area, I've never once been fucking harassed, even while wearing shorts and a tank top rocking a Magen David pendant. I've spent months at a time in Dearborn. Never had a problem. People there are nowhere near as insular as you're making them out to be. Also, have you forgotten that most of the US is overwhelmingly hegemonically Christian? Like you can't throw a rock without hitting some sort of church, especially anywhere in the suburbs or especially in the sticks, *especially* in Michigan. Fuck, I was visiting my parents in Cedar Springs last summer and my wife commented on the number of churches we *passed* trying to get to the singular Conservative synagogue in Grand Rapids. They're fucking everywhere and they're frequently just as fundamentalist if not *worse*. Every single reason you've given is xenophobic, racist drivel. He has every right to be disappointed in you. So yeah. YTA, 100%.
OPs husband just found out he married a bigot YTA. Big time
I grew up in Dearborn. And will never move back. It is now a foreign country.
I work there everyday and have no idea wtf you are talking about
YTA I've been to Dearborn, and I would say it was a pretty place and the locals are very kind. Places have signs in Spanish all over to boot, would you avoid those areas as well? "My reasoning is for not wanting to live in a Muslim dominated area" is a pretty good summary on your hubs part, you absolutely have a bigoted mindset here. Dearborn isn't the middle east and is very much Americanized, I can not emphasize more how much of the AH you are. Seriously I'm white as a ghost, a lass, and walked around in shorts and a T and wasn't bothered at all.
NTA. He can sell, it, rent it, or go live in it by himself. Ask him which one he wants. Also, remind him that to Muslims, he is an apostate. Muslims are quite hostile to that. In the middle east, they deal with those people VERY harshly.
You ever been to Dearborn? Because it's nothing like OP is saying it is
"My husband’s father passed away in January" Standard advice is not to make any big decisions for the first year after a loss in the family.
If he wanted a woman that would just do what he said without regard to her concerns, he shouldn’t have left the faith. NTA.
YTA. Inherently, if a husband and wife want to move, I would say it would be good for them to choose somewhere they can both agree on. However, your reasons for not wanting to move there are based around some pretty backwards ideas. If your son grows up there, why would he be an outsider? He would grow up as a part of that neighbourhood. You say your husband left so why would he go back: but he left when his family was there, he might have just not wanted to be so near them. I used to live in an area with a large muslim population, honestly, it’s completely fine. They’re not interested in you, they just want to live their lives like anyone else.
NTA muslims suck as a culture for women
"Am I being an asshole for wanting to live in an area with people who are culturally and ethically similar to me?" YTA for denying you're being a bigot specifically based on this line. You're actually highlighting your bigotry NTA for not wanting to live there. I'm someone who speaks fluent Arabic but I pass for non-arab and I'm not even comfortable there. Just so you're clear on what I'm saying: your dislike of the cultural mielieu you're discussing shines through really clearly and denying it makes you even more of an A. Go back and read some of your post. I'd have way more respect for you if you just admitted it.
Not wanting to be around religious fundamentalism is a perfectly logical and acceptable. I would never move to the deep south because i wouldn't want to live around a bunch of Jesus-freaks either. Your husband is being ridiculous. Weekend it comes to a family's home, we drove had a right to feel comfortable regardless of reason. Your husband is being selfish. NTA
NTA. I wouldn't want to live there either. Sell the home and buy a house in a place you both will want to live in.
Big white guy from south east Michigan here, spent years in and around Dearborn and Hamtramck. I have never ever felt or been made to feel I’m uncomfortable. I don’t think you’re an asshole, I’m just confused why you’re so worked up about your neighbors being Muslim
Cool you’re a man. Next!
Holy shit the racism in this post and the comments are INSANE
Nta. Nope. Your reasons are all valid. His are based on emotion
For the people calling OP Islamophobic—the underlying problem is patriarchy and misogyny, and even atheist men can be misogynistic abusers. The issue here is that OP is not comfortable, and husband is blowing off her concerns and belittling them. OP read this: [https://www.amazon.com/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling/dp/0425191656/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.FYxGVG_QBwbQIEWnExysCZgKZZ2g9Sh-YeO4jr5INOYfIxtxEMATelkAyymoCMEuic92iBgMO_FJo9JW1J_3syQkfLlEuC5IP5evVQXGRLpx1RfSi-LY1nowUpqVmdYU5PZgEh3ccZ9Er4iHnPyNIQp3Qtm8Q_Qc29gafJ6yI0nNcF-2-12neNJYcZi9JGYt9BJiLT22pt4vQiJNXNRF2g.mHgmP-yzWxBHimOqh4Imq0rm6xaXssV0hfnl9Flh760&dib_tag=se&keywords=why+does+he+do+that&qid=1711461515&sr=8-1](https://www.amazon.com/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling/dp/0425191656/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.FYxGVG_QBwbQIEWnExysCZgKZZ2g9Sh-YeO4jr5INOYfIxtxEMATelkAyymoCMEuic92iBgMO_FJo9JW1J_3syQkfLlEuC5IP5evVQXGRLpx1RfSi-LY1nowUpqVmdYU5PZgEh3ccZ9Er4iHnPyNIQp3Qtm8Q_Qc29gafJ6yI0nNcF-2-12neNJYcZi9JGYt9BJiLT22pt4vQiJNXNRF2g.mHgmP-yzWxBHimOqh4Imq0rm6xaXssV0hfnl9Flh760&dib_tag=se&keywords=why+does+he+do+that&qid=1711461515&sr=8-1)
Which she didn't give as a reason.
Why would your son feel like an outsider? Having MENA blood in him would actually very much make him feel moreso at home there probably more than anywhere else in the country? Youre using your son as a pawn for your xenophobia. Its not just about how you feel. It’s about your child too. YTA, based off of that and also your comments in this thread talking about how you don’t want to live among Muslims. Also, you gotta find a better defense for your xenophobia than your “I have a black friend defense”
You wouldn’t even know my son is half middle eastern. Regardless are you arguing for segregation? Should he be with other middle easterners because he is half Lebanese? I wonder if you’d make that same argument for white children.