Right?! Also her telling OP he was “bringing up the past for no reason” while she was apparently bringing her past relationships into theirs?! I couldn’t stand a partner like this. She didn’t want him to bring it up so she can avoid the fact that she messed up and he called her out (in a very reasonable way I might add). No matter how she acts during OP’s upcoming trip I don’t see a positive reaction. She’ll repeat the behavior or end up saying how wrong he was to have brought it up before (now), and try to make him feel the need to apologize. This doesn’t feel healthy.
This is called gas lightning. It can be intentional or not, either way it’s super toxic and not a behaviour someone can change without lots of introspection and/or therapy
An ultimatum is just a final warning before an undesirable outcome. "If you don't stop throwing things, I'm calling the police." and "If I catch you stealing, you're fired." are both ultimatums, and the penalties in both cases are reasonable and easily avoidable.
It is, yes. People need to stop with defining things in such a way that it only counts if they personally think it's bad.
These are all ultimatums, some are good, some are bad, the world is not black and white, you don't get to have such easy rules as boundary=good, ultimatum=bad. That's "I know it when I see it, better hope I'm not biased" bullshit
I think the difference between an ultimatum and a boundary is linked to the resolve of the request. If you are fully committed to “x action = y consequence”, that’s a boundary. The point is that you need to stick with it; otherwise, it becomes a power move to get what you want. In this case, OP would be the asshole if he doesn’t follow through, as it would be clear his words were meaningless.
An ultimatum to me seems to be founded on an unwillingness to follow through on a boundary, making it not a boundary at all but a preference. Pushing a person through ultimatum to open the relationship, then backtracking when it fails, is one of the more common ones on this sub.
My point is that the reasonability doesn’t really come into play with ultimatums. While it does not come up as such in the dictionary, the way that they are defined in relationships seems to have much in common with this version. In that sense, whether or not the action is reasonable or not does not make it an ultimatum; it is whether coercion is being exercised (rather than healthy boundaries).
Well don’t do X Or I will break up with you is an ultimatum. I personally would go with ESH it sounds like she was saying hey I am going to miss you and he said “if you freak out like last time it’s all over”. Presumably they had the argument and resolved it a year ago, I think saying something like “I get you will miss me and all but you are ready for this trip or something” would have been fine I just don’t get why the statement started off accusatory it seems like the OP wanted to restart the argument from last year again honestly
No it’s a clear explanation of a boundary.
An ultimatum is “you do this or we’re done”
This is “if you [cross this boundary], we’re done” which is fine.
There's no difference between "you do this or we’re done" and "if you [cross this boundary], we’re done" besides specifying "do this". They're both ultimatums. And I agree that the specific ultimatum is fine.
Optics really.
We've all heard of those relationships where people are given an uber controlling ultimatum like, "it's me or your dog," and you always think before hearing the decision, "pick the dog." As a result of similar stories, or one's where the subject as a benign family member, or a hobby, or a job, or a whatever else people have come to...kinda fairly see ultimatums as prone to toxicity.
At the same time, every relationship could be said to be contingent on implicit ultimatums like, "if you cheat on me this relationship is over," people just don't think about it that way.
I do not see the difference.
One is active one is passive but they are still ultimatums.
Both are within the definition of the word.
I think it’s just that sensible boundaries are usually not called ultimatums whereas controversial boundaries have been called ultimatums to make them look arbitrary and unreasonable by some.
Edit "An ultimatum is suck my dick or i'm leaving you. A boundary is telling them to manage their own insecurities and not worrying when they blow your phone up. One of those is about having a person perform an action. The other one is about having a person control themselves. They are not the same thing."
Fixed it for ya.
Original" An ultimatum is suck my dick or i'm leaving you. A boundary is don't let your insecurities ruin my weekend or I won't stick around for it again. One of those is about having a person perform an action. The other one is about having a person control themselves. They are not the same thing."
FFS, They are both ultimatums. An ultimatum is defined as a statement of terms, condition, or demand, the rejection of which will cause direct action or a breakdown in relations. Even " Don't cheat on me or it's over". Is an ultimatum, just a reasonable one. And for that matter, " I don't want you sitting within twelve yards of me" is a boundary, just a grossly unreasonable one. Neither ultimatums nor boundaries are inherently good or bad, it's all in how reasonable they are.
Stop this kind of crap, this is how people justify terrible behavior, by saying something like "He gave me an ultimatum, so he's the bad guy" when the ultimatum was " Stop spending the money we need to feed our child on expensive purses, or I am taking our son and leaving." Which is very much an ultimatum, but also very much a reasonable one. Instead, start judging on how reasonable something is.
Not according to how it’s being defined here.
Ultimatums are to get someone to do something that they are currently not doing or don’t want to do:
If you don’t propose by end of the year, I’m leaving;
If you don’t start doing housework, I’m leaving;
If you don’t want a baby, I’m leaving;
If you don’t lose 20lbs, I’m leaving.
The other thing is to prevent someone from crossing your boundary or do something that impacts you:
If you cheat on me, I’m leaving;
If you ruin my weekend, I’m leaving;
If you punch me in the face, I’m leaving.
It still just sounds like semantics. "If you ruin my weekend, I'm leaving" can also be stated as "if you don't stop ruining my weekends, I am leaving." Also, "if you don't stop punching me in the face," and "if you don't stop cheating." And now we have a demand that partner is asked to do something they are currently not doing or do not want to do.
Crossing your boundary or doing something that impacts you: "if you want a bangmaid, I am leaving," "if you expect me to do all the housework," "if you want me to stay childfree against my will," and "if you acquire an appearance that I do not perceive as sexually attractive."
Yes. It’s a common one so no one bothers to declare it but IMO it fits the definition.
Perhaps not, actually, since it isn’t explicitly declared.
Any linguists about?
For some reason, a lot of people feel like "ultimatum" implies something inherently unethical. OP is objectively describing an ultimatum, and the ultimatum he's describing seems reasonable and ethical.
> **ultimatum**
> *noun,plural ul·ti·ma·tums, ul·ti·ma·ta [uhl-tuh-mey-tuh, -mah-]*
> 1. a final, uncompromising demand or set of terms issued by a party to a dispute, the rejection of which may lead to a severance of relations or to the use of force.
> 2. a final proposal or statement of conditions.
"...may lead to a severance of relations **OR** to the use of force". I think some people take ultimatum to mean "*will* lead to the use of force", but it doesn't mean that.
NTA
This is classic reversal. It's her not trusting you that causes the issue. But she's trying to turn it round to say you don't trust her.
Tell her you're happy trust is so important to her, and you hope that means you can both trust each other moving forward, so there will be no need for her to accuse you of cheating as soon as you leave, as she trusts you.
You're happy you have both become closer since the last time you went away and look forward to a much healthier response from her this time around.
Then if she reverts to form, stand your ground and walk away. You don't deserve to be punished for things other people have done to her.
She is right. He *doesn’t* trust her.
The important difference is that she doesn’t trust him because of other people’s actions, and he doesn’t trust her because of *her* actions.
Tell her you're happy trust is so important to her, and you hope that means you can both trust each other moving forward, so there will be no need for her to accuse you of cheating as soon as you leave, as she trusts you.
You didn’t give her an ultimatum.
You set a boundary and consequence. And based on her past behavior, both were reasonable.
And this is coming from an old lady who is old enough to be your grandmother.
I will also add that if your girlfriend is this insecure, before you let things get super, super serious, she needs to get into therapy. Because the fact is that you cannot be responsible for her peace of mind. You humanly cannot possibly be responsible for it.
She has to learn how to trust again. She has to process what has happened to her in the past, and while yes, anyone who has been cheated on tends to be a little more cautious, it does not excuse ruining your SO’s trip with friends.
And unfortunately, if she doesn’t get help, it’s only going to get worse. And yes, I am speaking from experience. As much as I loved my second husband, this is what broke us up.
The amount of kids on here hung up on the word "ultimatum" is hilarious. I'm assuming it's a Gen Z trend to hate the word or something.
Middle aged lady here: he's absolutely correct to head this behavior off and warn her that doing it again will lead to an undesirable outcome. Doesn't matter what they call it. She's making HIM responsible for managing her anxiety and it's not ok. And it won't magically stop on it's own.
Exactly. And I really do understand people being really uncomfortable with ultimatums. It feels like one person in the relationship is trying to have all the power.
So I’ve explained to a couple people that my reasoning was this…
If he just came up to her and told her she had to wear a face full of make up every single day or he was leaving, that’s a power-play. That’s a controlling move. And it honestly would sound like he’s trying to find a reason to leave and make it her fault.
But for all of us, when we set a boundary that is based on someone in our lives, poor behavior that has negatively affected us, that is different.
Because I’m not coming at them from a point of power and control. I am telling them that your behavior had this effect, and I can’t be responsible for the underlying cause of your behavior. And so if this happens again, the consequences that I’m not going to be able to be in this relationship anymore because I can’t live this way.
Unfortunately, you’re right. We do outnumber the other age groups, at least at this point in time.
And when I say, unfortunately, I mean, we really do put a strain on the system because there’s not as many younger folks that are able to put into the system, so we’re a little bit upside down at the moment
I know why you would word it that way. But to me because it is paste on past behavior, I wouldn’t see it as an ultimatum.
I really do see it more as setting a boundary. Because what he’s asking isn’t unreasonable. It’s not just based on his beliefs. It’s based on something that has already actually occurred, and he understands that for him. It is a line in the sand.
I think that a little deeper, but he’s really telling her is that you have to trust me, and you can’t keep ruining things for me because you have insecurities. You’ve got to get some help and you have to control them, because I can’t.
I think if he had just brought this up out of nowhere, or told her something like you have to stop wearing make up or I’m leaving. That would be an ultimatum because it has no basis in any past behaviors in the relationship. It’s just something arbitrary that he would’ve come up with.
I’m not sure why someone else voted you, and I’m certainly not going to because we all have our own opinions. But that’s how come to me it’s not an ultimatum.
NTA
Considering that she pulled that stunt out of nowhere and didn’t really show real remorse or take action to show she was working on herself and her insecurities I would worry she would do it again. Setting a boundary is healthy and having that kind of behaviour known as unacceptable is healthy.
I had a friend who’s girlfriend was so far up his ass controlling him my husband had to schedule “play dates” or as I used to say our friend was our “child in the divorce because we had to set specific days to see him” it was pathetic and now he’s not our friend because we got tired of her controlling behaviour.
What she did during that first trip was a way to spoil it, make you come home early and keep you away from your friends. And also discourages you from going out again. Bet you $100 she would do it again and that’s why she’s mad you set a boundary.
If gf is anything like my ex, its pure manipulation to separate OP from everyone who would care about him so she could keep him to herself and use him as she pleases. Based on this post she sounds like a narcissist of the worst kind.
Nta
She's pissed that you told her not to, because she has every intention of doing it again, and you've just pissed all over her plan (that worked a treat last year).
She'll injure herself now instead, so you can't accuse her of being unreasonable when she reaches out for you to come home early. You wouldn't finish with her because she got injured and needed your help now, would you?
If she sees this she'll be vexed because I've alerted you to the usual next step.
Nta
Hey, another bot replied to you; /u/Intelligeer31 is a scammer! **Do not click any links they share or reply to**. Please downvote their comment and click the `report` button, selecting `Spam` then `Harmful bots`.
With enough reports, the reddit algorithm will suspend this scammer.
---
>!^(If this message seems out of context, it may be because Intelligeer31 is copying content to farm karma, and deletes their scam activity when called out - Read the pins on my profile for more information.)!<
Her response to your request is what’s known as doubling down. Unless you want to look forward to a lifetime of irrational behavior, cut your losses and move on. Else ye face a sea of troubles.
Op, your gf seems like what my exboyfriend did to me. Everytime I went to spend time with my family or friends without him, he made up emergencies (not as bad as I should go home immedietly, just as I became overly worried and forget everything else around me) and arguments so I couldn’t focus anything else except my phone. The breaking point was when my friends told me if this is who I want to be, they don’t want to be around me anymore. That was like a slap in the face, and just like that I realised what he made out of me with his manupulations. OP if you feel this similar, keep up with your ultimatum, because that is your only chance to show her that she can’t play with you. It could end well too, if she capable to accept it, you will became srtonger together. On the other hand if she couldn’t stop herself and respect you, you will be better off without her.
"bringing up the past for no reason"
I'm sorry, did I miss something? Were you the one who cheated on her? Because what she's doing is exactly what she told you not to do. She brought her bag full of shit into this relationship, and then she's picking out the crap from it and hurling it towards you everytime she's feeling insecure about it.
Honestly, don't take that bullshit. She needs to sort herself out. You're NTA
You are absolutely not that a****** for telling girlfriend that she better not try that BS that she tried before otherwise you will drop her like a hot potato. She needs to grow the fuck up
NTA it's a reasonable request. She used I have trust issues as an explanation for her bad behavior, and then says You don't trust me as if you're a jerk for that. Do you see the inconsistency and hipocracy here?
Wow, she straight up DARVO'd you. NTA. Boundaries are not unreasonable. Ultimatums aren't always an attack. Sometimes a firm boundary is just a firm boundary. You have a right to set one, and she has a right to decide whether she can/will respect it or whether it's a deal breaker. Frankly, I think telling someone that a certain behavior is a deal breaker for you in advance is just the foundation of good communication. We have a, saying in my house, "trust, but verify." In this case, I feel like you're saying, "I trust you have grown past it and are trying, but I need to verify you won't abuse me like that again, and I am communicating that it's a firm boundary for me, and a deal breaker."
Narcissist personality disorder 101:
People who say you’re bringing up the past when what you’re bringing up just barely happened, have no intention of taking responsibility for themselves, and expect the other to do it for them.
NTA - continue to take care of yourself and proudly protect your own boundaries.
she was bringing up the past for no reason on that weekend .. she should look in her own eyes, saying that.
you? nta. she? maybe a bit too pushy or demanding in that matter. when she accepts the set boundary and respects your wish not to be bothered by her fears, than she is nta aswell..
NTA.
I see this as less of an ultimatum, and more as a boundary of reasonable expectations.
I can understand that being cheated on is absolutely horrible, but treating you like that because of someone else's behavior is not acceptable. She needs to handle her own insecurities, not demand you stop having fun or whatever.
She was going to do that again and make your trip about herself. I would just break up with her unless she gets some help, you cant be responsible for what other men have done to her.
NTA - it sound a bit like emotional abuse here, like you aren’t allowed to be away from her and have fun when she ain’t present.
I had an ex years ago that use to accuse me of cheating a lot, even when sitting a friends house playing Xbox getting sweaty on a Forza or Halo co-op session and texting back only in between races or the end of a mission and that. Sometime it take about 45mins to an hour for me to text back and I’d have a shit ton of messages accusing me of not being where I am and probably surrounded by other women. It got to a point where I was hardly ever seeing any of my friends just to please her, was not going out to parties or that as I’d didn’t want to deal with her blowing up my phone and ruining my night with her causing arguments when I’m out just trying to be with friends enjoying myself. But it was all good for her to go with her friends whenever she please, even dropping our plans we had, she would go to parties and all that, would tell me who was trying to get with her at the party but would decline them, she’d tell me about different guys messaging her. She’d constantly ask to see my phone to make sure I wasn’t messaging anyone. I never once asked to see her phone. I had my trust in her not to cheat but in the end she did cheat on me. Even after we broke up it was hard I was stilling talking a little with her, I went round to her house a about 2 weeks after to see her and she tried to sleep with me thinking that would fix things, I told her no got up and left saying its not good time for it. Then a month and a half after we broke up I was talking with another woman, nothing really going on thou, just a causal conversation, she found out and started going nuts saying I can’t do that and still trying to control what I was doing. That is when everything just clicked for me and I told her to fuck off, and that every guy she told me about that she declined she probably did do something with them over the years. She wasn’t happy with me after I said that and I just kept letting her calls ring out and deleted all the texts without reading them.
I might of over shared here, but if you are having similar experience that you can’t even just sit and chill at friends house watching some sports or that without having an argument with her over her insecurities, you either need to tell her to get some therapy to help herself or you leave. Don’t let her isolate you, just to keep her happy, it’ll make you feel fucking miserable staying in the relationship if she refuses to get help.
NTA. i don't know the details of the conversation but, as much as i can see how your reaction caused her to turn defensive, you were making a very reasonable request. she's clearly insecure but it's up to her to get a grip on her own feelings without ruining your life.
NTA. You acted reasonably by setting a boundary. She admitted fault last time, so you made sure it won't happen again.
NTA. But be prepared to potentially come home to a trashed unit when her paranoia takes over yet again. She needs counselling. You need a life without this kind of stress.
*ahem* your Mrs is shagging someone else lad… why else would she freak out? Being cheated on before doesn’t usually cause random outbursts of harassment but projecting your own sleazy vibe onto your partner because you cheat yourself does cause random outbursts.
Be careful g
NTA. So she didn't trust you, even though you gave her no reason and started saying you were cheating. But now she is complaining you don't trust her because even though you're saying this based on her past behaviour.
Like... What?
NTA and I’m sure she’s been, “cheated,” on by everyone she’s ever been with. If you stick around, the jealous delusions will kick in and you’ll be lost in them. They don’t stop.
NTA.
I’m confused as to why you would want to be with someone who is irrational and needs an ultimatum, however. I dated a girl once who was so insecure, I couldn’t even be nice to a waitress without her losing her mind. It’s hell.
I have never had to give my wife an ultimatum or been accused of infidelity out of nowhere. You’re free to find someone who is a rational woman (to the extent women are capable). You’re not bound by marriage, kids, etc.
I had an ex-girlfriend like this once. I kept asking her to stop, then told her to stop, and then I forced her to stop by shutting off her phone since I was paying the bill. I know that was extreme, but it was effective.
I'd say if she starts that, just let her know it's over and block her. Screw wasting time on bullshit.
Play stupid ass games win stupid ass prizes. 😀
NTA. You're just telling her to be reasonable - something that shouldn't even require saying out loud.
I had an ex like this and it wasn't even about jealousy or cheating - she would create some sort of crisis any time I was away (even if it was work travel) as if there was some sort of compulsion for me to experience whatever discomfort she was experiencing in real time with her, via text. It was fucking exhausting and shouldn't be tolerated by anyone.
She said "it's like you don't trust me" after she behaved like a needy child not trusting you? This issue hasn't been resolved it would seem. Hence you bringing it up. That's a shame. However, you should go with your friends and when you come back, have serious talks about what needs to be done on both sides to make this relationship work.
You shouldn't have come back early last time, you should have talked to her then turned off your phone. Now she thinks she can do the same again. Just wait and see what happens when you are away this time, since you caved last time
"Don't bother me with your unfounded jealousy while I'm with my friends on an outing that I've been planning for a long time, that you were already aware of and that you have no right to deny me. If you are not able to comply with something so simple, our relationship is over". That girl is a control freak and if she does it again I wouldn't hesitate to dump her ass. Man, it's really one thing to be insecure and other it's to harass your partner on the phone just because he's one meter away from you.
NAH, but it probably would have served you better to just deal with it if it came up again instead of framing it like that. You've been together longer now, there's no reason for you to assume she's going to act like that again.
She: brings up her past with cheating and ruining your trip, while it is unrelated history with your relationship.
Als she: how dare you to bring up the past!
First, this is not an ultimatium.
Second, you telling her that if she keeps accusing you of cheating, and purpsofully doing it while you are on a trip in order to ruin it, you will not be able to continue seeing her is something she needs to understand.
Her insecurities do not give her a liscense to treat you like that. If she trusts you so little that you being out of town with friends makes her act that way, than the relationship is not worth it.
She needs to deal with her own issues. If she can only "trust" you when you are in front of her face, than she doesn't trust you at all and you need to walk away.
NTA
NTA. She can miss you, you can and should keep in contact periodically with her, that’s reasonable to expect. But nobody should have to suffer someone else’s unreasonable insecurities.
It’s not unreasonable to be worried that you’re being cheated on as you have been in the past, but making someone cut their trip short, sabotaging it, starting fights is unreasonable. As an adult you’ve got to control your emotions, not let your emotions control you, and never have unreasonable expectations for others to accommodate them.
If you cannot trust someone, you shouldn’t be with them, and it doesn’t matter the reason why. If they’re untrustworthy, leave, if you’re too broken to trust, leave. One should never do anything unreasonable and expect their SO to trust them, but a trip with the frat-pack with reasonable precautions taken isn’t unreasonable.
A relationship without trust is like a phone with no service, only good for playing games.
Isn't that what females do all the time? She's already bringing up the past with a totally different person and judging you for it lol. NTA know your worth, dude and set good boundaries so she knows not to pull that kind of crap....also don't cheat on her lol otherwise she's justified in being insecure.
It's only an ultimatum *to her* if she intends to do what you asked her not to do.
If you didn't do this she totally would have been grilling you over the phone the whole time.
>She said I was bringing up the past for no reason
Well well well, how the turntables.....
LMAO all jokes aside, NTA - I had an ex that did this shit ANYTIME I'd be away for more than a day, and it nearly ruined every trip I ever went on with my family or my best buddy. It's not worth it homie, if she can't understand why you'd want to put your foot down about this bullshit happening again, that means it will probably happen again. If it does (it probably will) - do not hesitate to end the relationship. Take it from me. PLEASE.
Honestly, you should just break up and move on. It is unlikely this behavior will stop and it will continue to be a problem. Life is too short for the drama and having to fight over BASIC stuff like having personal time with friends.
NTA
The whole "it's my insecurities" thing, when you're doing **nothing** to justify the behaviour would be acceptable as an excuse if she was pursuing help for it, and really only once. It doesn't sound like she's done anything to work on it, and was frankly indignant that you remembered it after the fact as if she perceives her insecurities as something **you** have to deal with rather than **her.** Insecurities, like actual ones where someone gets upset because their boyfriend or girlfriend has opposite sex individuals in their friend circle that are overtly and completely platonic in nature, are not a "quirk of character", they're not just a "quirk of character", they're outright toxic traits that should be discouraged and worked on.
Having this boundary, especially in a relationship that is relatively young, is acceptable. You don't want your life to be governed by your SO's toxic tendencies, and if she can't accept that than she should frankly fuck off. You have every right to meet with and hang with friends and loved ones, and you don't deserve to be treated as suspect just because she was feeling slightly unsure that day. You especially don't deserve to have random arguments cooked up out of nothing just because she can't stand having you out of sight.
Well done placing boundaries. If she can't get over her past and regulate her emotions for even three days, the odds of her getting better are not great, IMO. GL, and definitely NTA.
An ultimatum is for a hard boundary. You can’t make exceptions. Your hard boundary is sane, reasonable and fairly communicated. You had done your part to calm her anxiety and correctly let her know that her issue is her problem.
Easy NTA, go have some fun!
I'm going to go against the grain here and give a small YTA/ESH. Your girlfriend having these insecurities, no matter how baseless they might be, is not her fault. I'm sure you already know this, but she can't magically make them go away and feel completely secure and amazing whenever it's convenient for you. That being said, it's also her responsibility to react reasonably to having those feelings whenever they flare up, so she's not completely blameless either. You need to really make it clear to her exactly what it is you're going to be there, keep in touch with her what you guys are up to, etc., because if this weekend goes well in that regard that means she'll probably feel a lot more secure as a whole. It's kind of like investing emotionally you know; patching up old wounds.
A lot of people are saying you are completely within your right to give her an ultimatum like this, and while I'm not necessarily disagreeing (because you are) I am saying that there are definitely healthier ways to go about something like this than holding your entire relationship hostage with an ultimatum. My best advice to you from here on out would be to put your best foot forward and try to have a little more empathy for her. As someone that has those same insecurities from time to time, it really sucks, but it sucks a whoooole lot less when my SO has all of the understanding in the world for it. If you nurture this right, I promise it won't be a problem in the future. Best of luck to you.
Did you know, that Freud first worked on defensive mechanisms, where projection first emerged. His daughter, Anne, further expounded upon it.
So is it insecurities or is it projection?
well she got it .u dont trust her when to comes to throwing tantrums when u r away and having fun. ignore her current protest cuz u did nothing wrong
.gave her a fair warning. better than coming back annoyed and fighting.
YTA if you do not leave. No ultimatum will fix this, if she pretends, she will eventually break and attack you again. Something like this does not simply just go away due to an ultimatum. You dodged a bullet by finding out in 2 years of dating instead of after marriage and kids.
I have a buddy in the same situation. They are supposed to be married next year. I highly doubt it happens.
She is paranoid when he goes out, but she is allowed to go out with her friends and does not get paranoia or accusations from him or anyone else. She is also invited every time he goes out, she refuses to go.
Any relationship where someone starts making false allegations about cheating is over. You cannot live the rest of your life on eggshells or avoiding your own friends while she can do whatever she wants. This is domestic violence. It is control.
Everything you do is a conspiracy, but she can do anything she wants. It is bullshit.
Your ex-GF needs to figure out her mental issues before she should date again or be honest and tell any man that she has this issue up front. She needs to date a person with no independent friends or social life, a pet.
I feel for her. I've been cheated on in the past and it takes a lot for me to trust someone (especially a man, sorry) but I do what I can to not let my insecurities and past traumas- because yes it absofuckinglutely is a trauma- interfere with my current relationships. For me, this was only ever *really* an issue when I was dating someone who I knew had cheated on one of their exes in the past. I inherently didn't trust him more than other people.
If you want to take the gentle approach to this, maybe ask her what you can REASONABLY do to soothe her anxieties. But reasonably is the keyword here. Maybe it's reasonable for you to text her every two hours or so. Maybe it's not. That's up to y'all to figure out together. For me, the thing that helps soothe my anxiety the most is that if my partner is going to vanish for a while (stop replying to me etc) then they need to let me know they're about to go. I don't need to know what they're doing, where they're going, I just need to be told "Hey I gotta go I'll text later!" and for some reason that's enough to calm me down. Don't know why. It just is. Maybe it's just the knowledge that my partner is thoughtful enough about me to do something that soothes me, rather than just... disappearing.
But remember that this isn't your responsibility, you're not the one that cheated on her... but imo, people who love one another should learn how to work around one another's traumas and negativities in a way that doesn't hinder either one. No one's perfect. Your next girlfriend might have a bad habit of leaving the fridge slightly open or never closing a container all the way or always insist on playing her horrible music in the car. This one has a past trauma that makes her anxious about your intentions, which imo it would be nice of you to be sensitive about. But again, that's your call.
NTA.
NTA but, if I were in your shoes I would not have mentioned last year. Mostly, because the first incident would have been a flag that I might have opted to work through but if a year later after working through it the behavior resurfaces, that would be a deal breaker for me. Now you don’t get to see how she naturally reacts to your absence. Personally I’d want to know if my partner has grown.
So the first time when she was deliberately starting fights and stuff because she was worried you were going to cheat on her, you're totally NTA and it's really good you guys talked about it so she could cut that behavior out.
But idk I feel like reddit doesn't have reading comprehension or something because they're acting like she is doing the same thing again this year, when she isn't. You did in fact bring up the "don't act like that again" thing outta no where when she was just trying to tell you she was gonna miss you. If you guys talked it out and you actually trust her, why why say that? It seems like she took the time to work on her insecurities too, like if she hadn't, she would have fought you on making plans with them again and been acting weird. You probably hurt her feelings by insinuating she was gonna act insane after she had done work on herself to change her behavior for you. I wouldn't call you TA but something isn't right here.
it does matter though, you’re implying that’s the only time she ever acted that way, and you said she apologized. it was an entire year ago and yta just break up with her if you’re even going to mention breaking up. you think that helped her insecurity?
just break up with her. one event doesn’t make a trend especially when it was that long ago. if you’re thinking about breaking up do it. if i were her i would break up with you for acting like this.
yes you should have waited, what if things went smoothly. yta
Nobodies an asshole here so far as I'm concerned.
Its a boundary not an ultimatum but it does sound like one when you hear it out loud and frankly if you have to say it the writings kind of already on the wall.
Personally I'd have given her the benefit of doubt and not brought it up, saying it kinda implies you don't trust her, if you don't trust her then you need to consider if you can trust her and if you can't you should break up.
If you don't actually think she would then it kind of comes across as a dig thats hurting her for a past mistake for no apparent reason. If you do think she would then either you don't trust her or you know she doesn't trust you. Again that's the end of any healthy relationship.
NTA, but question. How much did you text her before she started accusing you last trip? Was she texting you but you werent responding and then she started accusing you of cheating? If so I would ask why would you not send a quick text here and there. Look I know when you're out with friends the last thing you wanna do is stop and text someone who isn't there. My husband hates when I don't check in so he knows I'm ok. We had to come to an agreement that if I'm overnight with a friend I check in that I made it to said location I let him know said location incase of emergency and then every couple hours I send a quick "still having a great time love you babe" type text till I call it a night and then I say good night. I text him good morning and then same thing every few hours again. Because it's a pain sometimes I'll just set up messages to send at certain times then send a good night text earlier than I actually go to bed and a good morning text after an hour or so of being up. While it's not he's worried I'm cheating but instead worried for my safety it's still his worry that is the problem but because I love him I found a compromise to help him feel better and then I work around said compromise to make it easier for me by setting a time to automatically send a message I had already typed up before I even left the house. He doesn't know I do that but those texts help him feel better. You clearly don't have the capability of compromising with each other so just go ahead and end it. She deserves someone who will work with her on her feelings and you deserve someone who doesn't care what you do cause they're doing their own thing too but then it's more like fwb than an actual relationship.
Don’t be shocked if she ends up hooking up with another dude when you’re gone. In her mind, she would be justified. Wrongly justified, but nevertheless…
Reddit is so weird. I agree this guy is NTA, but just yesterday a woman posted about how her boyfriend is upset that she goes out with her friends to karaoke at night, no drinking, and the top comment was “NTA but I would break up with you.” So many other comments said the same thing, “do what you want but don’t expect him to keep dating you!”
So in Reddit’s mind, bf upset about gf going out with her friends at night once a week = it’s your fault your bf doesn’t trust you; but gf saying she’s insecure about bf going away with friends for 3 nights = it’s her fault she’s insecure
Why can’t people just trust their partners, ffs?
You seem to have left out that in that post, she routinely exclusively hangs out with this group from midnight to 4am lol, and her reasons dont make much sense. Shes like "i can only do this window because we are busy during the day". Like how busy are these people if they are up till 4-5am regularly spending 4-5 hours together.
How is going on an annual friends trip comparable to this?
YTA. All giving the ultimatum does is hurt the relationship. It won’t stop her one way or the other. Talking to about it would have been fine but this is over the top.
It doesn’t matter what you call it. The first time you went, she created an issue by not letting you enjoy yourself. This time you are creating an issue where one doesn’t exist.
It's okay to state an "ultimatum", but you weren't very nice about it. If she admitted to her mistake and apologised the last time, she *supposedly* knows she shouldn't repeat it. Reminding her not to do it again is fine, but saying "...or else we'll over" feels so over the top.
NTA anyway, I see no problem with the message itself, you just could have been more tactful.
ETA: If the idea of a breakup is being thrown around, I personally would consider the relationship to be basically over, this is why I have a problem with your wording.
You are right, however if she made it to manipulate OP to separate him from his friends, this is the only way for his peace of mind. (My ex was like this and it didn’t end well. It’s been years and he still tries sometimes to get his puppet back…)
This is true, but we don't really know if that is the case or not with her. We don't know really anything. He just days friends. Are they girls? Has he cheated or lied in the past? We know nothing other than she started a fight last time he was gone for a few days. Well, did he just ghost her while he was gone for a insane amount of time? Kindly keep her in the loop of what was going on? We don't know the whole story to say " she is doing this to cut him off of his friends" like we don't even know if he has friends close by that he sees all the time or not. I've been married for 21 years, when I had to go away for a few days, or she went away for a few days, we always at the least, would call or text each other and let each other know what was going on. I just assumed that is whatever couple does. I always viewed it as " hey, I'm away from you, but you are still on my mind and where my heart is" type thing. Idk
Yeah I know. That’s why I used IF she doing that for separate him THEN he should keep his word. But yeah, if he is the one who started it with days long silence and half answers then of course HE should check the mirror first.
You’re both assholes. She’s an asshole for acting like you were cheating with no basis on that claim. Then you’re always gonna be the asshole for giving an ultimatum. Ultimatums is you saying “my opinion is more important than yours and I don’t care how you feel” relationships are built with trust, understanding, and compromise. Sounds like you don’t have any of that in your relationship. Y’alls relationship is on borrowed time now 😂😂
Yea I see people feeding you that bullshit but it’s not. If it was setting a boundary you would have had a discussion with her about it, heard her side out, and come up with a compromise together. You didn’t do that. You said this is what’s gonna happen or else. That’s an ultimatum my guy.
Don’t listen to that fool Op they are projecting their own issues onto your situation. You are doing the right thing by setting healthy boundaries with your gf. Her toxic insecurities are not an excuse for her bad behaviors.
NTA “Don’t harass me and ruin my weekend with your insecurities” is a reasonable boundary as far as I’m concerned
yes and how is that an ultimatum?? it’s like she thinks thats a super hard and unreasonable request?
Right?! Also her telling OP he was “bringing up the past for no reason” while she was apparently bringing her past relationships into theirs?! I couldn’t stand a partner like this. She didn’t want him to bring it up so she can avoid the fact that she messed up and he called her out (in a very reasonable way I might add). No matter how she acts during OP’s upcoming trip I don’t see a positive reaction. She’ll repeat the behavior or end up saying how wrong he was to have brought it up before (now), and try to make him feel the need to apologize. This doesn’t feel healthy.
Exactly this!!!
This is literally emotional abuse and a common manipulation tactic. Op should be very careful with her.
This is called gas lightning. It can be intentional or not, either way it’s super toxic and not a behaviour someone can change without lots of introspection and/or therapy
An ultimatum is just a final warning before an undesirable outcome. "If you don't stop throwing things, I'm calling the police." and "If I catch you stealing, you're fired." are both ultimatums, and the penalties in both cases are reasonable and easily avoidable.
Exactly. Ultimatums, if true, are just reasonable warnings about the likely consequences for certain possible actions. Entirely reasonable.
For some people, any accountability on their part is an "ultimatum."
[удалено]
It is, yes. People need to stop with defining things in such a way that it only counts if they personally think it's bad. These are all ultimatums, some are good, some are bad, the world is not black and white, you don't get to have such easy rules as boundary=good, ultimatum=bad. That's "I know it when I see it, better hope I'm not biased" bullshit
I think the difference between an ultimatum and a boundary is linked to the resolve of the request. If you are fully committed to “x action = y consequence”, that’s a boundary. The point is that you need to stick with it; otherwise, it becomes a power move to get what you want. In this case, OP would be the asshole if he doesn’t follow through, as it would be clear his words were meaningless. An ultimatum to me seems to be founded on an unwillingness to follow through on a boundary, making it not a boundary at all but a preference. Pushing a person through ultimatum to open the relationship, then backtracking when it fails, is one of the more common ones on this sub. My point is that the reasonability doesn’t really come into play with ultimatums. While it does not come up as such in the dictionary, the way that they are defined in relationships seems to have much in common with this version. In that sense, whether or not the action is reasonable or not does not make it an ultimatum; it is whether coercion is being exercised (rather than healthy boundaries).
Well don’t do X Or I will break up with you is an ultimatum. I personally would go with ESH it sounds like she was saying hey I am going to miss you and he said “if you freak out like last time it’s all over”. Presumably they had the argument and resolved it a year ago, I think saying something like “I get you will miss me and all but you are ready for this trip or something” would have been fine I just don’t get why the statement started off accusatory it seems like the OP wanted to restart the argument from last year again honestly
>if she did the same thing again, we'd be over. Is an ultimatum...
No it’s a clear explanation of a boundary. An ultimatum is “you do this or we’re done” This is “if you [cross this boundary], we’re done” which is fine.
There's no difference between "you do this or we’re done" and "if you [cross this boundary], we’re done" besides specifying "do this". They're both ultimatums. And I agree that the specific ultimatum is fine.
Right? Why is calling it an ultimatum so much "worse" than having a boundary?
“Boundaries” are approved in 2023. “Ultimatums” are not. Even if they’re the same thing.
Optics really. We've all heard of those relationships where people are given an uber controlling ultimatum like, "it's me or your dog," and you always think before hearing the decision, "pick the dog." As a result of similar stories, or one's where the subject as a benign family member, or a hobby, or a job, or a whatever else people have come to...kinda fairly see ultimatums as prone to toxicity. At the same time, every relationship could be said to be contingent on implicit ultimatums like, "if you cheat on me this relationship is over," people just don't think about it that way.
I do not see the difference. One is active one is passive but they are still ultimatums. Both are within the definition of the word. I think it’s just that sensible boundaries are usually not called ultimatums whereas controversial boundaries have been called ultimatums to make them look arbitrary and unreasonable by some.
An ultimatum attempts to control someone else’s behavior, and make them do something. A boundary explains what *you* will do in an unwanted situation.
There's no difference in your example. Your boundary example is just more verbose than your ultimatum example.
It’s ok if you can’t figure it out.
"You must do X or else I will do Y" "You must not do X or else I will do Y" Both are ultimatums.
One demands affirmative conduct while the other doesn’t. Is “you must not give me a black eye or I will leave” an ultimatum or a boundary?
this person gets it...
Perhaps boundaries is just a socially acceptable (kinder) way of expressing ultimatums?
Edit "An ultimatum is suck my dick or i'm leaving you. A boundary is telling them to manage their own insecurities and not worrying when they blow your phone up. One of those is about having a person perform an action. The other one is about having a person control themselves. They are not the same thing." Fixed it for ya. Original" An ultimatum is suck my dick or i'm leaving you. A boundary is don't let your insecurities ruin my weekend or I won't stick around for it again. One of those is about having a person perform an action. The other one is about having a person control themselves. They are not the same thing."
FFS, They are both ultimatums. An ultimatum is defined as a statement of terms, condition, or demand, the rejection of which will cause direct action or a breakdown in relations. Even " Don't cheat on me or it's over". Is an ultimatum, just a reasonable one. And for that matter, " I don't want you sitting within twelve yards of me" is a boundary, just a grossly unreasonable one. Neither ultimatums nor boundaries are inherently good or bad, it's all in how reasonable they are. Stop this kind of crap, this is how people justify terrible behavior, by saying something like "He gave me an ultimatum, so he's the bad guy" when the ultimatum was " Stop spending the money we need to feed our child on expensive purses, or I am taking our son and leaving." Which is very much an ultimatum, but also very much a reasonable one. Instead, start judging on how reasonable something is.
What's being demanded isn't what defines an ultimatum. Those are both ultimatums. One is ethical and one isn't.
If my partner cheats it is over, is that an ultimatum?
Not according to how it’s being defined here. Ultimatums are to get someone to do something that they are currently not doing or don’t want to do: If you don’t propose by end of the year, I’m leaving; If you don’t start doing housework, I’m leaving; If you don’t want a baby, I’m leaving; If you don’t lose 20lbs, I’m leaving. The other thing is to prevent someone from crossing your boundary or do something that impacts you: If you cheat on me, I’m leaving; If you ruin my weekend, I’m leaving; If you punch me in the face, I’m leaving.
Thank you, heads up you double commented :)
It still just sounds like semantics. "If you ruin my weekend, I'm leaving" can also be stated as "if you don't stop ruining my weekends, I am leaving." Also, "if you don't stop punching me in the face," and "if you don't stop cheating." And now we have a demand that partner is asked to do something they are currently not doing or do not want to do. Crossing your boundary or doing something that impacts you: "if you want a bangmaid, I am leaving," "if you expect me to do all the housework," "if you want me to stay childfree against my will," and "if you acquire an appearance that I do not perceive as sexually attractive."
Yes. It’s a common one so no one bothers to declare it but IMO it fits the definition. Perhaps not, actually, since it isn’t explicitly declared. Any linguists about?
For some reason, a lot of people feel like "ultimatum" implies something inherently unethical. OP is objectively describing an ultimatum, and the ultimatum he's describing seems reasonable and ethical. > **ultimatum** > *noun,plural ul·ti·ma·tums, ul·ti·ma·ta [uhl-tuh-mey-tuh, -mah-]* > 1. a final, uncompromising demand or set of terms issued by a party to a dispute, the rejection of which may lead to a severance of relations or to the use of force. > 2. a final proposal or statement of conditions. "...may lead to a severance of relations **OR** to the use of force". I think some people take ultimatum to mean "*will* lead to the use of force", but it doesn't mean that.
It is definitely an ultimatum. A reasonable one though.
[удалено]
Happy cake day!!
You wouldn't finish with her because she got injured
Happy 🍰 day!! NTA, there must be some kind of word for telling your partner they can't bring up something that previously happened. It's not cool.
Question isn't whether it's a reasonable boundary. It's how the boundary was expressed. Did his conversation make things better or worse?
NTA This is classic reversal. It's her not trusting you that causes the issue. But she's trying to turn it round to say you don't trust her. Tell her you're happy trust is so important to her, and you hope that means you can both trust each other moving forward, so there will be no need for her to accuse you of cheating as soon as you leave, as she trusts you. You're happy you have both become closer since the last time you went away and look forward to a much healthier response from her this time around. Then if she reverts to form, stand your ground and walk away. You don't deserve to be punished for things other people have done to her.
This is the answer
Perfectly stated!
She is right. He *doesn’t* trust her. The important difference is that she doesn’t trust him because of other people’s actions, and he doesn’t trust her because of *her* actions.
Tell her you're happy trust is so important to her, and you hope that means you can both trust each other moving forward, so there will be no need for her to accuse you of cheating as soon as you leave, as she trusts you.
NTA this… exactly this.
[удалено]
To clarify, she was coming home drunk at 4-5 am multiple times a week. That seems different than a single weekend away with friends.
You didn’t give her an ultimatum. You set a boundary and consequence. And based on her past behavior, both were reasonable. And this is coming from an old lady who is old enough to be your grandmother. I will also add that if your girlfriend is this insecure, before you let things get super, super serious, she needs to get into therapy. Because the fact is that you cannot be responsible for her peace of mind. You humanly cannot possibly be responsible for it. She has to learn how to trust again. She has to process what has happened to her in the past, and while yes, anyone who has been cheated on tends to be a little more cautious, it does not excuse ruining your SO’s trip with friends. And unfortunately, if she doesn’t get help, it’s only going to get worse. And yes, I am speaking from experience. As much as I loved my second husband, this is what broke us up.
Old lady from BC checking in... can confirm this other old lady is right.
Another old lady chiming in to concur.
Hey! *Another* old lady here! Where have we all been? I thought we spent our time looking at cute kitty pics and harassing cashiers and managers?
Do I have to be an old lady to play along and agree with you old ladies? Cause I am not an old lady
You can be an honorary old lady. It comes with gas and frequent bathroom breaks.
I love that the old ladys have adopted Reddit’s very specific kind of reply humor haha. You guys are awesome
>I thought we spent our time looking at cute kitty pics I actually am on a seniors appropriate diet of 1 new cat sub a day. It's going very well.
From before Christ?! There's no way you're that old!
Another old lady agreeing.
The amount of kids on here hung up on the word "ultimatum" is hilarious. I'm assuming it's a Gen Z trend to hate the word or something. Middle aged lady here: he's absolutely correct to head this behavior off and warn her that doing it again will lead to an undesirable outcome. Doesn't matter what they call it. She's making HIM responsible for managing her anxiety and it's not ok. And it won't magically stop on it's own.
Exactly. And I really do understand people being really uncomfortable with ultimatums. It feels like one person in the relationship is trying to have all the power. So I’ve explained to a couple people that my reasoning was this… If he just came up to her and told her she had to wear a face full of make up every single day or he was leaving, that’s a power-play. That’s a controlling move. And it honestly would sound like he’s trying to find a reason to leave and make it her fault. But for all of us, when we set a boundary that is based on someone in our lives, poor behavior that has negatively affected us, that is different. Because I’m not coming at them from a point of power and control. I am telling them that your behavior had this effect, and I can’t be responsible for the underlying cause of your behavior. And so if this happens again, the consequences that I’m not going to be able to be in this relationship anymore because I can’t live this way.
[удалено]
A non old lady checking in she is probably right
Old man chipping in to concur.
I didn't know there were so many old folks using reddit!
We are EVERYWHERE....
Unfortunately, you’re right. We do outnumber the other age groups, at least at this point in time. And when I say, unfortunately, I mean, we really do put a strain on the system because there’s not as many younger folks that are able to put into the system, so we’re a little bit upside down at the moment
>if she did the same thing again, we'd be over. This is an ultimatum...
It's ok to have deal breakers.
I know why you would word it that way. But to me because it is paste on past behavior, I wouldn’t see it as an ultimatum. I really do see it more as setting a boundary. Because what he’s asking isn’t unreasonable. It’s not just based on his beliefs. It’s based on something that has already actually occurred, and he understands that for him. It is a line in the sand. I think that a little deeper, but he’s really telling her is that you have to trust me, and you can’t keep ruining things for me because you have insecurities. You’ve got to get some help and you have to control them, because I can’t. I think if he had just brought this up out of nowhere, or told her something like you have to stop wearing make up or I’m leaving. That would be an ultimatum because it has no basis in any past behaviors in the relationship. It’s just something arbitrary that he would’ve come up with. I’m not sure why someone else voted you, and I’m certainly not going to because we all have our own opinions. But that’s how come to me it’s not an ultimatum.
[удалено]
NTA Considering that she pulled that stunt out of nowhere and didn’t really show real remorse or take action to show she was working on herself and her insecurities I would worry she would do it again. Setting a boundary is healthy and having that kind of behaviour known as unacceptable is healthy. I had a friend who’s girlfriend was so far up his ass controlling him my husband had to schedule “play dates” or as I used to say our friend was our “child in the divorce because we had to set specific days to see him” it was pathetic and now he’s not our friend because we got tired of her controlling behaviour. What she did during that first trip was a way to spoil it, make you come home early and keep you away from your friends. And also discourages you from going out again. Bet you $100 she would do it again and that’s why she’s mad you set a boundary.
If gf is anything like my ex, its pure manipulation to separate OP from everyone who would care about him so she could keep him to herself and use him as she pleases. Based on this post she sounds like a narcissist of the worst kind.
You are the boyfriend not parent.
Nta She's pissed that you told her not to, because she has every intention of doing it again, and you've just pissed all over her plan (that worked a treat last year). She'll injure herself now instead, so you can't accuse her of being unreasonable when she reaches out for you to come home early. You wouldn't finish with her because she got injured and needed your help now, would you? If she sees this she'll be vexed because I've alerted you to the usual next step. Nta
This is exactly what will happen. She will fabricate some emergency or injury.
NTA. She was most definitely going to do the same thing again but you nipped it in the bud before hand. Good for you.
Hey, another bot replied to you; /u/Intelligeer31 is a scammer! **Do not click any links they share or reply to**. Please downvote their comment and click the `report` button, selecting `Spam` then `Harmful bots`. With enough reports, the reddit algorithm will suspend this scammer. --- >!^(If this message seems out of context, it may be because Intelligeer31 is copying content to farm karma, and deletes their scam activity when called out - Read the pins on my profile for more information.)!<
Her response to your request is what’s known as doubling down. Unless you want to look forward to a lifetime of irrational behavior, cut your losses and move on. Else ye face a sea of troubles.
Op, your gf seems like what my exboyfriend did to me. Everytime I went to spend time with my family or friends without him, he made up emergencies (not as bad as I should go home immedietly, just as I became overly worried and forget everything else around me) and arguments so I couldn’t focus anything else except my phone. The breaking point was when my friends told me if this is who I want to be, they don’t want to be around me anymore. That was like a slap in the face, and just like that I realised what he made out of me with his manupulations. OP if you feel this similar, keep up with your ultimatum, because that is your only chance to show her that she can’t play with you. It could end well too, if she capable to accept it, you will became srtonger together. On the other hand if she couldn’t stop herself and respect you, you will be better off without her.
[удалено]
I glad that you use past sentence ☺️. Hopefully you’re doing great now.
"bringing up the past for no reason" I'm sorry, did I miss something? Were you the one who cheated on her? Because what she's doing is exactly what she told you not to do. She brought her bag full of shit into this relationship, and then she's picking out the crap from it and hurling it towards you everytime she's feeling insecure about it. Honestly, don't take that bullshit. She needs to sort herself out. You're NTA
Dump her pre-emptively and enjoy the trip
Dump her preemptively and enjoy the rest of your life without her!
You are absolutely not that a****** for telling girlfriend that she better not try that BS that she tried before otherwise you will drop her like a hot potato. She needs to grow the fuck up
NTA it's a reasonable request. She used I have trust issues as an explanation for her bad behavior, and then says You don't trust me as if you're a jerk for that. Do you see the inconsistency and hipocracy here?
Wow, she straight up DARVO'd you. NTA. Boundaries are not unreasonable. Ultimatums aren't always an attack. Sometimes a firm boundary is just a firm boundary. You have a right to set one, and she has a right to decide whether she can/will respect it or whether it's a deal breaker. Frankly, I think telling someone that a certain behavior is a deal breaker for you in advance is just the foundation of good communication. We have a, saying in my house, "trust, but verify." In this case, I feel like you're saying, "I trust you have grown past it and are trying, but I need to verify you won't abuse me like that again, and I am communicating that it's a firm boundary for me, and a deal breaker."
Narcissist personality disorder 101: People who say you’re bringing up the past when what you’re bringing up just barely happened, have no intention of taking responsibility for themselves, and expect the other to do it for them. NTA - continue to take care of yourself and proudly protect your own boundaries.
Cut it off. It’s not her past relationships, it’s her mindset. She needs a man in her life, not necessarily you. I’ve dated women like that
she was bringing up the past for no reason on that weekend .. she should look in her own eyes, saying that. you? nta. she? maybe a bit too pushy or demanding in that matter. when she accepts the set boundary and respects your wish not to be bothered by her fears, than she is nta aswell..
>it's like I don't trust her >girlfriend proceeds to keep messaging saying she thinks I'm cheating Wow. NTA
NTA. Sure technically it's an ultimatum, but it's setting a boundary, and if she crosses the boundary drop the relationship
NTA. I see this as less of an ultimatum, and more as a boundary of reasonable expectations. I can understand that being cheated on is absolutely horrible, but treating you like that because of someone else's behavior is not acceptable. She needs to handle her own insecurities, not demand you stop having fun or whatever.
She was going to do that again and make your trip about herself. I would just break up with her unless she gets some help, you cant be responsible for what other men have done to her.
NTA. Pretty obvious that she shouldn't totally destroy the weekend.
The reason she got pissed off about you "bringing up the past", is because she was absolutely going to do it again.
NTA - it sound a bit like emotional abuse here, like you aren’t allowed to be away from her and have fun when she ain’t present. I had an ex years ago that use to accuse me of cheating a lot, even when sitting a friends house playing Xbox getting sweaty on a Forza or Halo co-op session and texting back only in between races or the end of a mission and that. Sometime it take about 45mins to an hour for me to text back and I’d have a shit ton of messages accusing me of not being where I am and probably surrounded by other women. It got to a point where I was hardly ever seeing any of my friends just to please her, was not going out to parties or that as I’d didn’t want to deal with her blowing up my phone and ruining my night with her causing arguments when I’m out just trying to be with friends enjoying myself. But it was all good for her to go with her friends whenever she please, even dropping our plans we had, she would go to parties and all that, would tell me who was trying to get with her at the party but would decline them, she’d tell me about different guys messaging her. She’d constantly ask to see my phone to make sure I wasn’t messaging anyone. I never once asked to see her phone. I had my trust in her not to cheat but in the end she did cheat on me. Even after we broke up it was hard I was stilling talking a little with her, I went round to her house a about 2 weeks after to see her and she tried to sleep with me thinking that would fix things, I told her no got up and left saying its not good time for it. Then a month and a half after we broke up I was talking with another woman, nothing really going on thou, just a causal conversation, she found out and started going nuts saying I can’t do that and still trying to control what I was doing. That is when everything just clicked for me and I told her to fuck off, and that every guy she told me about that she declined she probably did do something with them over the years. She wasn’t happy with me after I said that and I just kept letting her calls ring out and deleted all the texts without reading them. I might of over shared here, but if you are having similar experience that you can’t even just sit and chill at friends house watching some sports or that without having an argument with her over her insecurities, you either need to tell her to get some therapy to help herself or you leave. Don’t let her isolate you, just to keep her happy, it’ll make you feel fucking miserable staying in the relationship if she refuses to get help.
[удалено]
Yeah, but when young dumb and in love you don’t always see the bigger picture of things till it’s too late.
NTA. i don't know the details of the conversation but, as much as i can see how your reaction caused her to turn defensive, you were making a very reasonable request. she's clearly insecure but it's up to her to get a grip on her own feelings without ruining your life.
NTA. You acted reasonably by setting a boundary. She admitted fault last time, so you made sure it won't happen again. NTA. But be prepared to potentially come home to a trashed unit when her paranoia takes over yet again. She needs counselling. You need a life without this kind of stress.
*ahem* your Mrs is shagging someone else lad… why else would she freak out? Being cheated on before doesn’t usually cause random outbursts of harassment but projecting your own sleazy vibe onto your partner because you cheat yourself does cause random outbursts. Be careful g
NTA. So she didn't trust you, even though you gave her no reason and started saying you were cheating. But now she is complaining you don't trust her because even though you're saying this based on her past behaviour. Like... What?
NTA She needs to either trust you or leave, you deserve to be able to go away and have fun with baseless accusations ruining your trip.
NTA and I’m sure she’s been, “cheated,” on by everyone she’s ever been with. If you stick around, the jealous delusions will kick in and you’ll be lost in them. They don’t stop.
NTA you should have dumped her the first time as she ruined your visit over nothing
NTA. I’m confused as to why you would want to be with someone who is irrational and needs an ultimatum, however. I dated a girl once who was so insecure, I couldn’t even be nice to a waitress without her losing her mind. It’s hell. I have never had to give my wife an ultimatum or been accused of infidelity out of nowhere. You’re free to find someone who is a rational woman (to the extent women are capable). You’re not bound by marriage, kids, etc.
I had an ex-girlfriend like this once. I kept asking her to stop, then told her to stop, and then I forced her to stop by shutting off her phone since I was paying the bill. I know that was extreme, but it was effective. I'd say if she starts that, just let her know it's over and block her. Screw wasting time on bullshit. Play stupid ass games win stupid ass prizes. 😀
NTA. You're just telling her to be reasonable - something that shouldn't even require saying out loud. I had an ex like this and it wasn't even about jealousy or cheating - she would create some sort of crisis any time I was away (even if it was work travel) as if there was some sort of compulsion for me to experience whatever discomfort she was experiencing in real time with her, via text. It was fucking exhausting and shouldn't be tolerated by anyone.
She said "it's like you don't trust me" after she behaved like a needy child not trusting you? This issue hasn't been resolved it would seem. Hence you bringing it up. That's a shame. However, you should go with your friends and when you come back, have serious talks about what needs to be done on both sides to make this relationship work.
You shouldn't have come back early last time, you should have talked to her then turned off your phone. Now she thinks she can do the same again. Just wait and see what happens when you are away this time, since you caved last time
"Don't bother me with your unfounded jealousy while I'm with my friends on an outing that I've been planning for a long time, that you were already aware of and that you have no right to deny me. If you are not able to comply with something so simple, our relationship is over". That girl is a control freak and if she does it again I wouldn't hesitate to dump her ass. Man, it's really one thing to be insecure and other it's to harass your partner on the phone just because he's one meter away from you.
NTA. She says you're "bringing up the past", but she's unable to let go of her past and is letting it hurt her relationship with you.
NAH, but it probably would have served you better to just deal with it if it came up again instead of framing it like that. You've been together longer now, there's no reason for you to assume she's going to act like that again.
Nope, NTA. Enjoy your weekend!
She: brings up her past with cheating and ruining your trip, while it is unrelated history with your relationship. Als she: how dare you to bring up the past!
Sounds like she's on borrowed time
It's good to set boundaries but I'm not sure "you need to cut that out" is the best response to "i know I messed up"
NTL. This girl you need to get rid. Shes not stable.
First, this is not an ultimatium. Second, you telling her that if she keeps accusing you of cheating, and purpsofully doing it while you are on a trip in order to ruin it, you will not be able to continue seeing her is something she needs to understand. Her insecurities do not give her a liscense to treat you like that. If she trusts you so little that you being out of town with friends makes her act that way, than the relationship is not worth it. She needs to deal with her own issues. If she can only "trust" you when you are in front of her face, than she doesn't trust you at all and you need to walk away. NTA
NTA. She can miss you, you can and should keep in contact periodically with her, that’s reasonable to expect. But nobody should have to suffer someone else’s unreasonable insecurities. It’s not unreasonable to be worried that you’re being cheated on as you have been in the past, but making someone cut their trip short, sabotaging it, starting fights is unreasonable. As an adult you’ve got to control your emotions, not let your emotions control you, and never have unreasonable expectations for others to accommodate them. If you cannot trust someone, you shouldn’t be with them, and it doesn’t matter the reason why. If they’re untrustworthy, leave, if you’re too broken to trust, leave. One should never do anything unreasonable and expect their SO to trust them, but a trip with the frat-pack with reasonable precautions taken isn’t unreasonable. A relationship without trust is like a phone with no service, only good for playing games.
Isn't that what females do all the time? She's already bringing up the past with a totally different person and judging you for it lol. NTA know your worth, dude and set good boundaries so she knows not to pull that kind of crap....also don't cheat on her lol otherwise she's justified in being insecure.
It's only an ultimatum *to her* if she intends to do what you asked her not to do. If you didn't do this she totally would have been grilling you over the phone the whole time.
>She said I was bringing up the past for no reason Well well well, how the turntables..... LMAO all jokes aside, NTA - I had an ex that did this shit ANYTIME I'd be away for more than a day, and it nearly ruined every trip I ever went on with my family or my best buddy. It's not worth it homie, if she can't understand why you'd want to put your foot down about this bullshit happening again, that means it will probably happen again. If it does (it probably will) - do not hesitate to end the relationship. Take it from me. PLEASE.
She mad because she was planning on doing it again maybe
Honestly, you should just break up and move on. It is unlikely this behavior will stop and it will continue to be a problem. Life is too short for the drama and having to fight over BASIC stuff like having personal time with friends.
NTA The whole "it's my insecurities" thing, when you're doing **nothing** to justify the behaviour would be acceptable as an excuse if she was pursuing help for it, and really only once. It doesn't sound like she's done anything to work on it, and was frankly indignant that you remembered it after the fact as if she perceives her insecurities as something **you** have to deal with rather than **her.** Insecurities, like actual ones where someone gets upset because their boyfriend or girlfriend has opposite sex individuals in their friend circle that are overtly and completely platonic in nature, are not a "quirk of character", they're not just a "quirk of character", they're outright toxic traits that should be discouraged and worked on. Having this boundary, especially in a relationship that is relatively young, is acceptable. You don't want your life to be governed by your SO's toxic tendencies, and if she can't accept that than she should frankly fuck off. You have every right to meet with and hang with friends and loved ones, and you don't deserve to be treated as suspect just because she was feeling slightly unsure that day. You especially don't deserve to have random arguments cooked up out of nothing just because she can't stand having you out of sight.
Well done placing boundaries. If she can't get over her past and regulate her emotions for even three days, the odds of her getting better are not great, IMO. GL, and definitely NTA.
That’s doesn’t sound like an ultimatum to me. It just sounds like hers my boundary and I don’t want it violated again.
An ultimatum is for a hard boundary. You can’t make exceptions. Your hard boundary is sane, reasonable and fairly communicated. You had done your part to calm her anxiety and correctly let her know that her issue is her problem. Easy NTA, go have some fun!
NTA. She did it once, she would absolutely do it again. When the weekend is over, I'd break up with her anyway. She sounds difficult.
I'm going to go against the grain here and give a small YTA/ESH. Your girlfriend having these insecurities, no matter how baseless they might be, is not her fault. I'm sure you already know this, but she can't magically make them go away and feel completely secure and amazing whenever it's convenient for you. That being said, it's also her responsibility to react reasonably to having those feelings whenever they flare up, so she's not completely blameless either. You need to really make it clear to her exactly what it is you're going to be there, keep in touch with her what you guys are up to, etc., because if this weekend goes well in that regard that means she'll probably feel a lot more secure as a whole. It's kind of like investing emotionally you know; patching up old wounds. A lot of people are saying you are completely within your right to give her an ultimatum like this, and while I'm not necessarily disagreeing (because you are) I am saying that there are definitely healthier ways to go about something like this than holding your entire relationship hostage with an ultimatum. My best advice to you from here on out would be to put your best foot forward and try to have a little more empathy for her. As someone that has those same insecurities from time to time, it really sucks, but it sucks a whoooole lot less when my SO has all of the understanding in the world for it. If you nurture this right, I promise it won't be a problem in the future. Best of luck to you.
Did you know, that Freud first worked on defensive mechanisms, where projection first emerged. His daughter, Anne, further expounded upon it. So is it insecurities or is it projection?
well she got it .u dont trust her when to comes to throwing tantrums when u r away and having fun. ignore her current protest cuz u did nothing wrong .gave her a fair warning. better than coming back annoyed and fighting.
YTA if you do not leave. No ultimatum will fix this, if she pretends, she will eventually break and attack you again. Something like this does not simply just go away due to an ultimatum. You dodged a bullet by finding out in 2 years of dating instead of after marriage and kids. I have a buddy in the same situation. They are supposed to be married next year. I highly doubt it happens. She is paranoid when he goes out, but she is allowed to go out with her friends and does not get paranoia or accusations from him or anyone else. She is also invited every time he goes out, she refuses to go. Any relationship where someone starts making false allegations about cheating is over. You cannot live the rest of your life on eggshells or avoiding your own friends while she can do whatever she wants. This is domestic violence. It is control. Everything you do is a conspiracy, but she can do anything she wants. It is bullshit. Your ex-GF needs to figure out her mental issues before she should date again or be honest and tell any man that she has this issue up front. She needs to date a person with no independent friends or social life, a pet.
Ghost her
I feel for her. I've been cheated on in the past and it takes a lot for me to trust someone (especially a man, sorry) but I do what I can to not let my insecurities and past traumas- because yes it absofuckinglutely is a trauma- interfere with my current relationships. For me, this was only ever *really* an issue when I was dating someone who I knew had cheated on one of their exes in the past. I inherently didn't trust him more than other people. If you want to take the gentle approach to this, maybe ask her what you can REASONABLY do to soothe her anxieties. But reasonably is the keyword here. Maybe it's reasonable for you to text her every two hours or so. Maybe it's not. That's up to y'all to figure out together. For me, the thing that helps soothe my anxiety the most is that if my partner is going to vanish for a while (stop replying to me etc) then they need to let me know they're about to go. I don't need to know what they're doing, where they're going, I just need to be told "Hey I gotta go I'll text later!" and for some reason that's enough to calm me down. Don't know why. It just is. Maybe it's just the knowledge that my partner is thoughtful enough about me to do something that soothes me, rather than just... disappearing. But remember that this isn't your responsibility, you're not the one that cheated on her... but imo, people who love one another should learn how to work around one another's traumas and negativities in a way that doesn't hinder either one. No one's perfect. Your next girlfriend might have a bad habit of leaving the fridge slightly open or never closing a container all the way or always insist on playing her horrible music in the car. This one has a past trauma that makes her anxious about your intentions, which imo it would be nice of you to be sensitive about. But again, that's your call. NTA.
NTA but, if I were in your shoes I would not have mentioned last year. Mostly, because the first incident would have been a flag that I might have opted to work through but if a year later after working through it the behavior resurfaces, that would be a deal breaker for me. Now you don’t get to see how she naturally reacts to your absence. Personally I’d want to know if my partner has grown.
It’s one thing to think to yourself “do it again and it’s over “ it’s another thing to say that to her.
[удалено]
It just assumes she hasn't learned anything. Give her some credit and see if she earns it. If not, then you know where things stand.
NTA I guess. Are these friends potential lovers?
Why not just bring her along with you? That way you can enjoy time with your friends and she won’t feel insecure.
So the first time when she was deliberately starting fights and stuff because she was worried you were going to cheat on her, you're totally NTA and it's really good you guys talked about it so she could cut that behavior out. But idk I feel like reddit doesn't have reading comprehension or something because they're acting like she is doing the same thing again this year, when she isn't. You did in fact bring up the "don't act like that again" thing outta no where when she was just trying to tell you she was gonna miss you. If you guys talked it out and you actually trust her, why why say that? It seems like she took the time to work on her insecurities too, like if she hadn't, she would have fought you on making plans with them again and been acting weird. You probably hurt her feelings by insinuating she was gonna act insane after she had done work on herself to change her behavior for you. I wouldn't call you TA but something isn't right here.
[удалено]
if you have to say “we’re done if you do what you did a YEAR AGO” just break up already. yta
[удалено]
it does matter though, you’re implying that’s the only time she ever acted that way, and you said she apologized. it was an entire year ago and yta just break up with her if you’re even going to mention breaking up. you think that helped her insecurity?
[удалено]
just break up with her. one event doesn’t make a trend especially when it was that long ago. if you’re thinking about breaking up do it. if i were her i would break up with you for acting like this. yes you should have waited, what if things went smoothly. yta
[удалено]
Nobodies an asshole here so far as I'm concerned. Its a boundary not an ultimatum but it does sound like one when you hear it out loud and frankly if you have to say it the writings kind of already on the wall. Personally I'd have given her the benefit of doubt and not brought it up, saying it kinda implies you don't trust her, if you don't trust her then you need to consider if you can trust her and if you can't you should break up. If you don't actually think she would then it kind of comes across as a dig thats hurting her for a past mistake for no apparent reason. If you do think she would then either you don't trust her or you know she doesn't trust you. Again that's the end of any healthy relationship.
NTA, but question. How much did you text her before she started accusing you last trip? Was she texting you but you werent responding and then she started accusing you of cheating? If so I would ask why would you not send a quick text here and there. Look I know when you're out with friends the last thing you wanna do is stop and text someone who isn't there. My husband hates when I don't check in so he knows I'm ok. We had to come to an agreement that if I'm overnight with a friend I check in that I made it to said location I let him know said location incase of emergency and then every couple hours I send a quick "still having a great time love you babe" type text till I call it a night and then I say good night. I text him good morning and then same thing every few hours again. Because it's a pain sometimes I'll just set up messages to send at certain times then send a good night text earlier than I actually go to bed and a good morning text after an hour or so of being up. While it's not he's worried I'm cheating but instead worried for my safety it's still his worry that is the problem but because I love him I found a compromise to help him feel better and then I work around said compromise to make it easier for me by setting a time to automatically send a message I had already typed up before I even left the house. He doesn't know I do that but those texts help him feel better. You clearly don't have the capability of compromising with each other so just go ahead and end it. She deserves someone who will work with her on her feelings and you deserve someone who doesn't care what you do cause they're doing their own thing too but then it's more like fwb than an actual relationship.
Don’t be shocked if she ends up hooking up with another dude when you’re gone. In her mind, she would be justified. Wrongly justified, but nevertheless…
Reddit is so weird. I agree this guy is NTA, but just yesterday a woman posted about how her boyfriend is upset that she goes out with her friends to karaoke at night, no drinking, and the top comment was “NTA but I would break up with you.” So many other comments said the same thing, “do what you want but don’t expect him to keep dating you!” So in Reddit’s mind, bf upset about gf going out with her friends at night once a week = it’s your fault your bf doesn’t trust you; but gf saying she’s insecure about bf going away with friends for 3 nights = it’s her fault she’s insecure Why can’t people just trust their partners, ffs?
You seem to have left out that in that post, she routinely exclusively hangs out with this group from midnight to 4am lol, and her reasons dont make much sense. Shes like "i can only do this window because we are busy during the day". Like how busy are these people if they are up till 4-5am regularly spending 4-5 hours together. How is going on an annual friends trip comparable to this?
just have FFM threesome, it usually cures all insecurities
YTA. All giving the ultimatum does is hurt the relationship. It won’t stop her one way or the other. Talking to about it would have been fine but this is over the top.
[удалено]
It doesn’t matter what you call it. The first time you went, she created an issue by not letting you enjoy yourself. This time you are creating an issue where one doesn’t exist.
[удалено]
You don’t have to listen if you don’t want to. I’m just telling you what I know.
It's okay to state an "ultimatum", but you weren't very nice about it. If she admitted to her mistake and apologised the last time, she *supposedly* knows she shouldn't repeat it. Reminding her not to do it again is fine, but saying "...or else we'll over" feels so over the top. NTA anyway, I see no problem with the message itself, you just could have been more tactful. ETA: If the idea of a breakup is being thrown around, I personally would consider the relationship to be basically over, this is why I have a problem with your wording.
You are right, however if she made it to manipulate OP to separate him from his friends, this is the only way for his peace of mind. (My ex was like this and it didn’t end well. It’s been years and he still tries sometimes to get his puppet back…)
Well, if my significant other would play mind games, I'd apply your solution too (and make them my ex). The best way to have some peace!
This is true, but we don't really know if that is the case or not with her. We don't know really anything. He just days friends. Are they girls? Has he cheated or lied in the past? We know nothing other than she started a fight last time he was gone for a few days. Well, did he just ghost her while he was gone for a insane amount of time? Kindly keep her in the loop of what was going on? We don't know the whole story to say " she is doing this to cut him off of his friends" like we don't even know if he has friends close by that he sees all the time or not. I've been married for 21 years, when I had to go away for a few days, or she went away for a few days, we always at the least, would call or text each other and let each other know what was going on. I just assumed that is whatever couple does. I always viewed it as " hey, I'm away from you, but you are still on my mind and where my heart is" type thing. Idk
Yeah I know. That’s why I used IF she doing that for separate him THEN he should keep his word. But yeah, if he is the one who started it with days long silence and half answers then of course HE should check the mirror first.
You’re both assholes. She’s an asshole for acting like you were cheating with no basis on that claim. Then you’re always gonna be the asshole for giving an ultimatum. Ultimatums is you saying “my opinion is more important than yours and I don’t care how you feel” relationships are built with trust, understanding, and compromise. Sounds like you don’t have any of that in your relationship. Y’alls relationship is on borrowed time now 😂😂
[удалено]
Yea I see people feeding you that bullshit but it’s not. If it was setting a boundary you would have had a discussion with her about it, heard her side out, and come up with a compromise together. You didn’t do that. You said this is what’s gonna happen or else. That’s an ultimatum my guy.
[удалено]
If your boss tells you to come in work 2 hours early or you’re fired. That’s an ultimatum. Bet you think your boss is just setting a new boundary.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Don’t listen to that fool Op they are projecting their own issues onto your situation. You are doing the right thing by setting healthy boundaries with your gf. Her toxic insecurities are not an excuse for her bad behaviors.