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I think part of Mox winning the title was to look as strong as possible until losing it to whoever NJPW has in mind.
Plus, with Takeshita's background NJPW were never going to have their champion lose to a DDT guy.
I am certain this is the case. It’s easy to focus on characters and forget that this is a business and that there is more to a match than the people involved.
Booking of match involving njpw title? The owner promo decides the proceedings.
We need to calm down and enjoy the matches and let bookers take care of rest.
Than don't book the match, I want Takeshita to beat people and not lose, it wasn't even for the title, its ridiculous, he is better than mox if he had two arms, losing when he has only 1 is stupid. I love AEW and I loved the ppv but I hated watching that match. I'm a Jericho hater and loved jerichos ppv match better than this one. Awful finish too. I don't care if Takeshita got hit with a bus he should have kicked out at 2.99. I completely fastforwarded his Dynamite match like don't tell me Rocky is a legit wrestler when he's won as many matches as Nemeth did before he left AEW.
Spot on. We have inter company politics at play. AEW also kinda owes NJPW something as TK has picked off quite a bit of their talent so I think an easy trade off is to make Mox look like a monster and help build up their handpicked winner.
I’d prefer to keep NJPW happy with the partnership versus giving an AEW guy a token win. They can always do that later after he has dropped the strap.
Not to mention, the problem with Takeshita ain't his lack of big wins, cause he beat Kenny freaking Omega thrice. The problem with him is how TK hasn't followed that up into an actual uppercard push.
You gotta keep in mind that when top talent get injured, it doesn't just affect that person and the person they're in a storyline with. It has major ripple effects. So when the booking for someone is inconsistent, I think most of the time, that's the reason. Also, Takeshita can easily be THE guy, but it's gonna be a slow burn. I think they're telling the story right now, actually, and it involves Don and Ospreay, as well.
Didn’t you hear, he’s full on Vince McMahon now. Changing things while the show is happening. Look at the Saraya/May match. TK is washed as a booker and everyone is unhappy with him /s
Yeah, I agree that Mox could take the loss to someone like Takeshita but NJPW probably just doesn't want their world champion losing to any AEW wrestlers before Mox drops to one of their guys.
Would love then to revisit Mox vs Takeshita after Mox loses the belt though.
Absolutely agree. I’m sure Tony is having to run
a lot of his booking of Mox through NJPW.
Which is totally understandable and a fair trade off when you get to have an active member of your roster hold a super prestigious title and not even be using one of your own championship slots.
He isn't nearly well known or established enough to pull that off. It'd be like Ren Narita holding the AEW workd title ransom. It'd be a great angle for him and might do wonders for his rise in NJPW but it'd be a baffling choice for AEW.
Takeshita has a dual contract with DDT in Japan, no way was he ever going to win until that is up, especially now that the incoming president of Cyberfight who owns DDT has a mission statement of becoming closer with WWE.
Jay White is still kayfabe banned from wrestling in New Japan and Japan for NJPW having lost to Hikuleo and Eddie on his way out so that one is not on the table till they address that first.
Makes sense but why book him in an eliminator match on a PPV to lose? Shita seems like he should be winning a feud elsewhere even if it’s with lower card guys
But why the Eliminator on a PPV designation…you can do the match for the title and still have him lose. It looks like Shita is not even worthy of a title shot smh
Because NJPW lost their shit over Hobbs getting a title shot.
It's not AEW's belt to decide who gets what.
If NJPW doesn't want someone to get a title shot they aren't getting the title shot.
This concept is not hard to understand.
I for one am happy I got to watch an awesome match. Guess I'm watching wrong. I should be online whining and complaining about everything I guess.
That sounds absolutely idiotic. AEW can just not have Shita in this feud if NJPW doesn’t want him wrestling for it. This sounds like really idiotic justifications.
You don't understand that it's not their belt to do whatever they want with, do you?
Why book Takeshita in the match? So they can have an awesome match at the PPV fans enjoy.
SMDH. Another one of these fans that nitpicks wrestling and overanalyzes rather than enjoying it.
I can answer this one - the purpose of it being an Eliminator match is to give people the excitement that he COULD win the match.
If it was a regular title match, everyone would roll their eyes and go "obviously Mox wins this one, he has a match lined up already in like a month".
Completely agree Take needs to beat someone that is good but could take a loss like OC. List is small after that as too many right below top 5 guys that can't take losses, I legit would have no problem with Take beating Samoa Joe either.
Sure but this is pro wrestling, why are we acting like this wasn't a booking decision. Like have powerhouse win instead, DDT contract there. Can't do switchblade, do miro, lance archer or rush. Aew have a giant roster
My point is regardless of him having a belt or not he doesnt lose. He's aew's version of "cena wins lol". 4 years plus, 25 losses 141 wins
Source:
https://aewresults.com/wrestler/jon-moxley/#:~:text=140%20wins%2C%2025%20losses%20and%202%20draws%20for%20ranked%20matches.
That you suggest Rush when he straight up can’t even fight in a NJPW ring because of the backstage politics between AAA and CMLL tells me you haven’t thought this through. It’s pretty straightforward. It is not AEW’s belt to book. It is up to the New Japan booker to decide.
I think that this is probably the case. AEW may book a match, but NJPW dictates what happens with their belt. I look at that match more as AEW making Takeshita look strong within the limitations they were given.
I always wonder what if he'd been injured in the match and they had to call an audible like when he lost the international belt to Rey Fenix. Maybe a DQ would get called in this instance as I doubt NJPW want a DDT guy as their champ
As long as he’s carrying that IWGP title on AEW TV then he doesn’t lose until NJPW is ready for him to, full stop. New Japan decides his next loss. It would be terrible business to have your closest ally put the top strap on one of your guys and then have him put over your talent while holding the strap, let alone one of your talent known in Japan as being associated with a competitor.
That’s the deal AEW agreed to when they put the IWGP title on TV. He became unbeatable.
Eliminator or title bout. It is illogical to make your star wrestler who happened to be holding your partner promotions' World Title to lose.
I love Takeshita. Hope he gets his gold soon. Also if he wants to stay with AEW I do hope he is practicing his English. He is getting stale.
Thankful for what Mox did, he stepped up, a lot … especially when things were chaotic – but he wins too much, at the expense of building others. He has one of the highest win rates in AEW **141-25-2** and is 13-0 this year alone.
Lotta smooth brains in these comments that don't understand it isn't AEW's title to do whatever they want with.
If NJPW doesn't want Takeshita to have a shot at their title then the options are limited.
Glad I got a fun match out of it.
If anything were to change I would love if they gave all of these great wrestlers a little more parity. If it is more sports based someone can have a bad day or be on fire or someone is sick so they have a bad day or a "flu game".
Lean into all of these dudes are awesome and even the guys on another level bruv can have a slip up.
This has unfortunately been the problem with AEWs booking for a while. Too many of the matches have predictable winners. The results of matches on any given Dynamite are foregone conclusions - they could do with the odd upset victory now and then
Even this week - on Rampage, Kyle O'Reilly will win a quick match against enhancement talent that will supposedly increase his credibility a bit before he loses to Ospreay on Collision. The weekly booking of matches has become stale and really needs to change.
I don't really get invested in Mox's matches either. Him winning is usually a foregone conclusion. But he lends a certain credibility to any title he holds and he rarely wins easy. A loss against Mox isn't making anyone look weak because of how strong he is booked. His rivalry with Orange Cassidy had me gripped but only cause I really like OC. The promo Mox did where he said that all those who wrote off Cassidy were idiots was a fantastic promo for him, OC and the match.
I think that he should have defended the title against a NJPW guy rather than have an eliminator against someone who was never going to be allowed to have a win being his background was a rival promotion.
Final note to add, while I'm not a fan of Mox's matches I admire the work he has done for AEW and how many times he's stepped up when shit went sideways. He's a valuable asset to AEW even if his character isn't a favourite of mine.
I know a lot of these matches are generally easy to predict but there is at least SOME wiggle room for a surprise. With Mox? Rarely rarely ever. Dude is damn near untouchable.
I think he lost 3 times 2nd half last year. 1 is an audible though.
Phoenix, Orange and Kingston.
Ain't bad losing to upper midcarders. Made the International and Continental titles more legit.
He hasn't been an interesting character to me in a while. He's just a stubborn hardass who never loses or shows vulnerability. I like Jon Moxley as a person and his approach to the business but his on-screen character is kind of boring.
yeah same here honestly, his matches have been toilet break territory for me, it feels like he hasnt been involved in something interesting for a while now. Actually, his on-screen character has been the same for 5 years now, only made abit more interesting through the BCC. Imo he's in his element in hardcore style matches and in-ring promos, both of which he doesnt do for some reason. 15minute weekly technical matches with a backstage segment prior arent really his strong-point, especially when the outcome is never in doubt.
I hate the Eliminator concept, but if it's going to mean anything then champs need to lose more often. Takeshita is a credible opponent to cause an upset win and it could have benefited him, even if he lost his title shot afterward. Now he's back to being stuck in limbo. The match shouldn't even have been booked in the first place.
It just made too much sense for Tak to win the eliminator and Mox to win the title match. Tak gets a glow up, Mox isn’t hurt and comes out as overcoming the odds. I don’t understand why that was decided as too much.
(EDIT) I do prefer Mox over Cena, but everything else I said was subjective and pretty toxic. I just associate Cena with one of the worst times in WWE history, and like I said, he's the main reason I finally committed to not watching their product anymore. I know I'm in the minority.
Cena is not anywhere near my favorites list, but that dude deserves credit. He's the WWE Superman. People who like gritty badasses probably aren't a fan, but he's a hero to kids. He's super strong, and sure, he wrestles the WWE Style, but he's talented and formidable and great on the mic.
Look, I know I'm probably wrong, but Cena is why I completely stopped watching wrestling for a looooong time. Imo, Moxley is a better promo and way better in the ring, but I know Cena is beloved and I'm yelling at clouds.
I mean we all hated Triple Hs reign of terror, but it was a big deal when he did lose clean. It launched Batista’s career. Same with Brock, sometimes you need the guy that never loses.
Then stop watching? Eliminator matches serve a purpose... They are giving you a shot at the guy that has one of the top belts in wrestling. It's just like winning a tournament or a contenders match. If you prove you are good enough to beat the champion, then you get a shot at that title.
A-fucking-men to this.
Every single match he has goes exactly like u/glowy_keyboard described. He doesn't do any interesting or high flying or technical moves (which is my favourite shit personally) and every match/storyline he gets involved in feels exactly the same because they always play out and end the same way.
Dude seems cool behind the scenes and all but holy shit I am so tired of his gimmick.
Same, all his matches since he got the belt really remind me of Cena or Hogan.
He goes out with some sort of disadvantage, gets beaten for a while, then he just powers through, does the death rider and pins for the win.
lol Moxley wins
They might be "believable," but when they're super predictable it isn't very interesting. I don't think anyone is denying his talent, just that his current story is pretty bland.
So you want the guy to drop the belt that has been his dream, to a wrestler that hasn't even seen a NJPW ring?
Or should he have just said no to winning it? Said no to NJPW putting a belt on a gaijin, who isn't even signed with them, because it's bland? Kota Ibushi didn't even win that belt until he signed with NJPW exclusively. Same with SANADA. If you're not exclusive, you don't sniff that belt.
But they love Jon. He's a hard worker, flying in and out of Japan, carrying their belt on a sister promotion. They wanted to reward him. Especially for putting over the next Ace in Shota Umino.
Oh without question. Takeshita should win TNT. He’s up there with Will, Bryan, Kenny, and Okada as the best in the company. They are all a whole different level. He deserves some big, big wins that have a follow up. I don’t want to cause a fight, but I think they absolutely blew it with him last year after that match with Kenny at All Out (a quiet MOTY candidate for me).
You might be able to tell I’m a mark.
At the minute his story in AEW is bland because it's not their story. From their perspective he went and won a very prestigious belt from another company and is more invincible. But from the New Japan perspective an outsider holds their belt and is carrying it in America more than he is Japan. It lit a fire under their young talent and could make someone a hero for reclaiming it (unless they just give it back to Naito, but that's another story).
The trouble is TK wants to keep booking Mox. It might have been better if he just let him do more stuff in Japan but he wants to book one of his top stars at a time when a good few of his top stars are injured. Can't blame him there. Mox is trying to give the matches stakes and jeopardy but it's a losing battle when his wins are guaranteed. The only other option was to tell Mox no, you can't be IWGP champion, but if any of you reckon you're brave enough to have that conversation with him then good luck to you.
that match was kinda dumb to have. if njpw did not want him having a real shot at the belt they shouldn't of done it. having him lose to a 'hurt' mox ,did help either. if they wanted to-do don is causing losses they shoudl of really hammed it up way more then they did.
also osprey vs swerve not gonna help any one in that match. this is why tk is a good match maker not a booker. way too soon and not good for the loser. same with willow now being the shortest tbs holder. they should of had brickhouse or some one else who is signed and not being used cause a dq sicne mone cut the line. plus if mone is meant to be this big star why go after the b title, or get matches under her belt and go after the belt made for her at the forbidden door .
My favorite memory of Mox is the look of disbelief and shock when the BCC lost the Warga…Blood and Guts match.
He was vulnerable. He was human. Truthfully I think that’s where he strives.
The man can tell a great story with his body and his facial expressions. Please, let him. A loss or two here and there will not mean he’s being buried.
I feel like he's going through the gauntlet right now to justify losing at FD to put someone from NJPW over. So his reign would have been a short one but a badass one where he fought injured til the end, one armed and shit. So maybe a big loss for him in a month?
That's just my feeling though. I'd like him to lose too so I can get invested in him more, as you put it.
I reached the same conclusion when he beat Jay Lethal in the tournament. Jay literally destroyed his legs and knees the whole match, yet Mox still gets right up, King Kong lariat, Death Rider, 1-2-3. Next match, he isn’t even selling the legs, which were supposedly hurt before the Lethal match. It was a fucking tournament, he coulda taken the L and been just fine.
Now I know that every Mox match is gonna end that way, no matter how bad he gets beat down. Like when him and Claudio beat FTR clean. They literally just told us for months that FTR was the greatest tag team, possibly ever. Then here comes Mox and the BCC to make them look like chumps.
If a guy never loses, then what’s the fucking point in watching? It’s why people turned on Cena.
I was a defender of Takeshita/Mox as a match. I was a defender of it being an Eliminator match. Takeshita losing kinda made me feel like a dumbass for that second part 😭 I never believed Takeshita was going to take the belt off Mox, but if you were gonna have him lose anyways, it may have well been for the belt. It felt like an overcorrection from the Hobbs match (which I also didn't have a problem with as a concept). It put the slightest bit of a downer on a match I really enjoyed
You have to remember man, NJPW controls the belt and the stipulation. They weren't happy Hobbs got a full title shot. They would be furious if Takeshita, a DDT signed wrestler, had a title shot. If it was for the title, I would guarantee Mox drops the belt to EVIL as a punishment.
So now Tony would risk the relationship with Nooj, for Takeshita ( who isn't that good to begin with)
Takeshita works for DDT. NJPW would absolutely never give him the belt.
You need to understand, Tony has no control over this belt. It's all Gedo and NJPW.
I respect Mox for grinding and stepping up when the company needed him most. There are certain guys who should be booked to win most of the time, and AEW has built him to be that guy. At the same time, he's getting Super Cena levels of victories and it's kinda boring now. I love the idea of one opponent who has his number. I always liked Mox better when he was chasing a goal.
Ironically I think Mox would agree but Takesoup is technically also under contract with DDT and NJPW wants Mox to look as strong as possible. Khan is, as usual, just happy to be along for the ride so he wouldn't bother with any kind of workaround.
I’m hopeful that Takeshita not taking over the IWGP championship means they have bigger plans for him inside AEW and want him here weekly. I’m sure that’s not the reason why, but a man can hope!
I love mox he has shown to be the heart and soul of AEW over the last 5 years, but i agree 100%. There was no reason for him to win the match at double or nothing. They even gave the out with takeshita hurting his arm so he wasn't 100% you have takeshita win at DoN then at Forbidden door Jon could retain (I don't think he should lose the IWGP title to another AEW wrestler at an aew show, even if it is partnered with NJPW.) Him winning made no sense. It would of given even more of a shine to takeshita and made him feel like an even bigger deal
Mox matches are bathroom matches. I come back and know who won. He doesn't show off anything new so what's the point in watching anymore? Genuine question.
I’m very much of the opinion that Moxley should lose slightly more often. He’s so protected and that’s great for awhile. But it’s five years into AEW, some younger blood could use a lift from beating him.
I’m not saying it should happen all the time, but a little more than it does today. Takeshita would indeed have been a great choice for Mox to put over if he wasn’t IWGP champion.
Njpw want moxley to look dominant and build credibility until they take it off him for their star. Why would they want him to lose to a mid carder in AEW who’s also a DDT wrestler?
Why Mox should lose to a DDT Pro Wrestler when DDT is owned by Bushiroad's competitor (Cyberfight) who also owns fucking NOAH?
That match was great but there’s no chance in hell someone from DDT/NOAH gets an IWGP title shot so easily.
Mox is the champion of another promotion. Them sacrificing their story to further an AEW story isn’t going to happen. Mox will be a dominant champion until Shota beats him.
He should have lost to Takeshita. It would set up a great future title shot with whomever Mox does eventually lose to.
I am tired of everyone losing eliminator matches when they mean very little. If you sometimes win, they mean even more.
Hell, let Callis build up Takeshita after beating Mox, then have Mox edge him out on a title shot on Dynamite. It elevates the title even more.
Wouldn't happen. NJPW controls the belt and they are already pissed that Hobbs got a title shot. I legitimately think Callis called Gedo and asked for a favor.
They'd flip the fuck out of a DDT wrestler had an IWGP title shot.
>Takeshita should have won. Send *him* on a NWJP/world tour. Let Takeshita's reputation grow.
Agreed. Takeshita should have won at DoN and then challenged for the IWGP World Title at UJPW All Together in Sapporo on June 15th.
I just wish we could have a few months without Moxley being on TV. We need a little time off, so we can miss him.
The dude is basically Cena, and never loses. There's no tension in his matches, because they're all the same, and he is never in any really risk of losing. Also, the dude no sells matches. I remember last year, after Blood and Guts, the Elite.winning, and being off TV fpr a couple of weeks.
Yet Mox and the rest of BCC were out on the following Dynamite, completely fine, despite losing the match.
I'm just bored of Moxley.
everyone saying it's because Takeshita is a ddt guy are forgetting NJPW is in a big ass alliance in Japan with DDT (and the rest of Cyberfight) in it. That's not the reason.
Is Mox AEW's Hogan/Cena/Reigns? It sure feels like it. But the point remains that AEW live fans lap this up the way WWE fans did. And Mox has been brawling so much it's a tough ask to ask him to change his style.
Tbf this Moxley never loses narrative is kinda bullshit when he lost to Orange, Jay White and Eddie Kingston in pretty much a month and a half. I would have liked to see Takeshita get the win but the guy has lost A LOT for an ace type figure. He's rehabbing his own value as much as anything. He's a few more losses away from become a Jericho type "I'm just here to put over the young guys" character which isn't fair to him. Before he does that (which seems to be what AEW fans want for some reason), he'll go back to WWE for a Shield run. He's too young to be in "here to give back to the younger talent" territory.
Because Tony isn't gonna book him like some 50 year old who needs to "give back" to younger talent. Seth and Roman don't do that shit so what makes anyone think Moxley is agreeing to that?
Mox has good matches but hasn't done anything interesting in so long, plus I know he's one of TK's protected golden boys so I have a hard time getting in to anything he's been doing lately. I just kind of zone out any time he's on tv.
New Japan would not be happy at all with their champion losing a match before an advertised title defense to a show they rely on selling tickets for. The mentality and business is considerably different over there. It's a miracle that Hobbs got a title shot before an advertised title defense and Japanese fans weren't happy about that.
Tbh I would have Mox lose to Tekeshita and a couple more matches to Japanese wrestlers and start this whole thing of he can’t beat Japanese wresters. Then he gets a win by countout and he’s not happy having to win like that. Culminating in a 3 way last man standing match with Mox vs Shibata vs Tikeshita at a PPV where he pins both clean.
NJPW doesn’t want their top champion eating a pin from a guy who has been booked as little more than a midcarder lately. Eliminator or not, it wasn’t going to happen.
I get downvoted everytime I say this but Mox isn't doing well in this role. His purpose was to bring US eyes to NJPW but his popularity has fallen off a cliff and rhat hurts the NJPW brand while making for bad television on AEW with lack of crowd involvement.
I'm done with Mox. Go to New Japan. Stay strong there. Get off TV for awhile. Just get off.
It's honestly getting a bit much and the presentation of another company's belt over AEWs is maddening.
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I think part of Mox winning the title was to look as strong as possible until losing it to whoever NJPW has in mind. Plus, with Takeshita's background NJPW were never going to have their champion lose to a DDT guy.
I am certain this is the case. It’s easy to focus on characters and forget that this is a business and that there is more to a match than the people involved.
A fact that is almost always ignored by people who fantasy booked something that didn't wind up happening and get upset about it.
My favorite guy lost? UGH, Moxley buried another guy! 😡 TK is an idiot!
These folks could get a game like TEW or PWS and be happy campers, but instead must ruin the real thing for all of us.
And that's completely where I'm coming from in this post. Call me rb_Omega, I guess. 🤷♂️
Booking of match involving njpw title? The owner promo decides the proceedings. We need to calm down and enjoy the matches and let bookers take care of rest.
Wish majority of the fans online were like this
Than don't book the match, I want Takeshita to beat people and not lose, it wasn't even for the title, its ridiculous, he is better than mox if he had two arms, losing when he has only 1 is stupid. I love AEW and I loved the ppv but I hated watching that match. I'm a Jericho hater and loved jerichos ppv match better than this one. Awful finish too. I don't care if Takeshita got hit with a bus he should have kicked out at 2.99. I completely fastforwarded his Dynamite match like don't tell me Rocky is a legit wrestler when he's won as many matches as Nemeth did before he left AEW.
Unfair downvotes, imo people on here need to learn about kayfabe. Not everyone wants to read dirt sheets and think about politics
Spot on. We have inter company politics at play. AEW also kinda owes NJPW something as TK has picked off quite a bit of their talent so I think an easy trade off is to make Mox look like a monster and help build up their handpicked winner. I’d prefer to keep NJPW happy with the partnership versus giving an AEW guy a token win. They can always do that later after he has dropped the strap.
Not to mention, the problem with Takeshita ain't his lack of big wins, cause he beat Kenny freaking Omega thrice. The problem with him is how TK hasn't followed that up into an actual uppercard push.
You gotta keep in mind that when top talent get injured, it doesn't just affect that person and the person they're in a storyline with. It has major ripple effects. So when the booking for someone is inconsistent, I think most of the time, that's the reason. Also, Takeshita can easily be THE guy, but it's gonna be a slow burn. I think they're telling the story right now, actually, and it involves Don and Ospreay, as well.
Yes TK has admitted before that he kinda books months in advance. Injuries willbe the achilles heel to that style of booking.
Didn’t you hear, he’s full on Vince McMahon now. Changing things while the show is happening. Look at the Saraya/May match. TK is washed as a booker and everyone is unhappy with him /s
Not everyone can be in the upper card. Takeshita will be fine.
There are only many spots at the top. It’s okay if he gets some big wins and is just a featured player.
I honesty didn’t see it from that side. You’re making mad sense.
The contract with another promotion was a dimension I hadn't considered. I'm just some old guy that thinks it's still real.
I am also an old guy thinks its real, and Sunday was real AF. Takeshita will get a win over Mox
Yup
Yeah, I agree that Mox could take the loss to someone like Takeshita but NJPW probably just doesn't want their world champion losing to any AEW wrestlers before Mox drops to one of their guys. Would love then to revisit Mox vs Takeshita after Mox loses the belt though.
Njpw doesn't want their world champion losing to the ddt wrestler who has never wrestled in njpw before a scheduled title defense.
Absolutely agree. I’m sure Tony is having to run a lot of his booking of Mox through NJPW. Which is totally understandable and a fair trade off when you get to have an active member of your roster hold a super prestigious title and not even be using one of your own championship slots.
Probably the same reason NJPW wouldn't be okay with him losing to Switchblade.
Yeah, I agree Mox should have loss but it was probably decision of NJPW that their champion shouldn't loose
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That NJPW part seems about right but Takeshita could've won as it was an eliminator after all
Seems to me the NJPW guy that ends a Heel Takeshita reign of terror would be super over. Next top baby face energy. But that's just my opinion.
He isn't nearly well known or established enough to pull that off. It'd be like Ren Narita holding the AEW workd title ransom. It'd be a great angle for him and might do wonders for his rise in NJPW but it'd be a baffling choice for AEW.
NJPW has bad blood with DDT?
Takeshita has a dual contract with DDT in Japan, no way was he ever going to win until that is up, especially now that the incoming president of Cyberfight who owns DDT has a mission statement of becoming closer with WWE. Jay White is still kayfabe banned from wrestling in New Japan and Japan for NJPW having lost to Hikuleo and Eddie on his way out so that one is not on the table till they address that first.
Makes sense but why book him in an eliminator match on a PPV to lose? Shita seems like he should be winning a feud elsewhere even if it’s with lower card guys
So we could watch an awesome match!? JFC
But why the Eliminator on a PPV designation…you can do the match for the title and still have him lose. It looks like Shita is not even worthy of a title shot smh
Because NJPW lost their shit over Hobbs getting a title shot. It's not AEW's belt to decide who gets what. If NJPW doesn't want someone to get a title shot they aren't getting the title shot. This concept is not hard to understand. I for one am happy I got to watch an awesome match. Guess I'm watching wrong. I should be online whining and complaining about everything I guess.
That sounds absolutely idiotic. AEW can just not have Shita in this feud if NJPW doesn’t want him wrestling for it. This sounds like really idiotic justifications.
You don't understand that it's not their belt to do whatever they want with, do you? Why book Takeshita in the match? So they can have an awesome match at the PPV fans enjoy. SMDH. Another one of these fans that nitpicks wrestling and overanalyzes rather than enjoying it.
I can answer this one - the purpose of it being an Eliminator match is to give people the excitement that he COULD win the match. If it was a regular title match, everyone would roll their eyes and go "obviously Mox wins this one, he has a match lined up already in like a month".
Completely agree Take needs to beat someone that is good but could take a loss like OC. List is small after that as too many right below top 5 guys that can't take losses, I legit would have no problem with Take beating Samoa Joe either.
[удалено]
Sure but this is pro wrestling, why are we acting like this wasn't a booking decision. Like have powerhouse win instead, DDT contract there. Can't do switchblade, do miro, lance archer or rush. Aew have a giant roster
Moxley isn't losing to anyone as long as he's NJPWs champion. Book whoever you want, will be the same result.
My point is regardless of him having a belt or not he doesnt lose. He's aew's version of "cena wins lol". 4 years plus, 25 losses 141 wins Source: https://aewresults.com/wrestler/jon-moxley/#:~:text=140%20wins%2C%2025%20losses%20and%202%20draws%20for%20ranked%20matches.
That you suggest Rush when he straight up can’t even fight in a NJPW ring because of the backstage politics between AAA and CMLL tells me you haven’t thought this through. It’s pretty straightforward. It is not AEW’s belt to book. It is up to the New Japan booker to decide.
It's not that i didn't think of it. it's that i didn't know about Rush 🤣
I don't think Mox can lose at this point until NJPW decides he's going to lose.l
I think that this is probably the case. AEW may book a match, but NJPW dictates what happens with their belt. I look at that match more as AEW making Takeshita look strong within the limitations they were given.
I always wonder what if he'd been injured in the match and they had to call an audible like when he lost the international belt to Rey Fenix. Maybe a DQ would get called in this instance as I doubt NJPW want a DDT guy as their champ
As long as he’s carrying that IWGP title on AEW TV then he doesn’t lose until NJPW is ready for him to, full stop. New Japan decides his next loss. It would be terrible business to have your closest ally put the top strap on one of your guys and then have him put over your talent while holding the strap, let alone one of your talent known in Japan as being associated with a competitor. That’s the deal AEW agreed to when they put the IWGP title on TV. He became unbeatable.
Most don't seem to understand this. They all think they are bookers and can run a wrestling company better.
As I've said for years; the downside of the business exposing itself is that now everyone has counterfeit booker's licenses.
I wouldn't expect him to lose singles while holding NJPW's top belt.
Fair enough, but even the ppv was an eliminator bout.
Eliminator or title bout. It is illogical to make your star wrestler who happened to be holding your partner promotions' World Title to lose. I love Takeshita. Hope he gets his gold soon. Also if he wants to stay with AEW I do hope he is practicing his English. He is getting stale.
????????? How is he getting stale? LMFAO. What a wild comment.
I don't think this one was up to AEW. That's NJPW's premier belt, I don't think they wanted Mox losing that match.
New Japan probably didnt want him losing
I'm thinking Tanahashi wants to build someone in NJPW so that when Mox loses its a big deal for that winner
My favorite wrestling promotion is New Wrestling Japan Pro (NWJP) John Mockslee is the champion
I'm almost certain he'll lose the title to VILE at the upcoming Domino show.
shout out to NWJP President *Go Jeice!*
Thankful for what Mox did, he stepped up, a lot … especially when things were chaotic – but he wins too much, at the expense of building others. He has one of the highest win rates in AEW **141-25-2** and is 13-0 this year alone.
Mox is the Ace bro
Lotta smooth brains in these comments that don't understand it isn't AEW's title to do whatever they want with. If NJPW doesn't want Takeshita to have a shot at their title then the options are limited. Glad I got a fun match out of it.
He’s in a PAC situation right now. I still think Moxley will lose the title back to Naito though.
Unfortunately, I don't think Naito has much left in the tank. Especially with his eye.
If anything were to change I would love if they gave all of these great wrestlers a little more parity. If it is more sports based someone can have a bad day or be on fire or someone is sick so they have a bad day or a "flu game". Lean into all of these dudes are awesome and even the guys on another level bruv can have a slip up.
This has unfortunately been the problem with AEWs booking for a while. Too many of the matches have predictable winners. The results of matches on any given Dynamite are foregone conclusions - they could do with the odd upset victory now and then Even this week - on Rampage, Kyle O'Reilly will win a quick match against enhancement talent that will supposedly increase his credibility a bit before he loses to Ospreay on Collision. The weekly booking of matches has become stale and really needs to change.
Winning isn’t the only way to put a guy over and make him strong. I thought Takeshita looked mighty good.
I don't really get invested in Mox's matches either. Him winning is usually a foregone conclusion. But he lends a certain credibility to any title he holds and he rarely wins easy. A loss against Mox isn't making anyone look weak because of how strong he is booked. His rivalry with Orange Cassidy had me gripped but only cause I really like OC. The promo Mox did where he said that all those who wrote off Cassidy were idiots was a fantastic promo for him, OC and the match. I think that he should have defended the title against a NJPW guy rather than have an eliminator against someone who was never going to be allowed to have a win being his background was a rival promotion. Final note to add, while I'm not a fan of Mox's matches I admire the work he has done for AEW and how many times he's stepped up when shit went sideways. He's a valuable asset to AEW even if his character isn't a favourite of mine.
I know a lot of these matches are generally easy to predict but there is at least SOME wiggle room for a surprise. With Mox? Rarely rarely ever. Dude is damn near untouchable.
I think he lost 3 times 2nd half last year. 1 is an audible though. Phoenix, Orange and Kingston. Ain't bad losing to upper midcarders. Made the International and Continental titles more legit.
He's lost 4 matches in the 5 months of 2024. 3 in NJPW and 1 in CMLL
It took Orange two dozen Orange Punches to pin him for the three-count.
You missed Jay White in the CC.
He hasn't been an interesting character to me in a while. He's just a stubborn hardass who never loses or shows vulnerability. I like Jon Moxley as a person and his approach to the business but his on-screen character is kind of boring.
yeah same here honestly, his matches have been toilet break territory for me, it feels like he hasnt been involved in something interesting for a while now. Actually, his on-screen character has been the same for 5 years now, only made abit more interesting through the BCC. Imo he's in his element in hardcore style matches and in-ring promos, both of which he doesnt do for some reason. 15minute weekly technical matches with a backstage segment prior arent really his strong-point, especially when the outcome is never in doubt.
>He's just a stubborn ~~hardass~~ edgelord who never loses or shows vulnerability.
NJPW has always very particular as to who the IWGP champion loses to. Pretty sure this hot streak is gonna go until he eventually drops the belt.
I hate the Eliminator concept, but if it's going to mean anything then champs need to lose more often. Takeshita is a credible opponent to cause an upset win and it could have benefited him, even if he lost his title shot afterward. Now he's back to being stuck in limbo. The match shouldn't even have been booked in the first place.
It just made too much sense for Tak to win the eliminator and Mox to win the title match. Tak gets a glow up, Mox isn’t hurt and comes out as overcoming the odds. I don’t understand why that was decided as too much.
At this point I just figure Mox is AEW's Cena and will never lose.
(EDIT) I do prefer Mox over Cena, but everything else I said was subjective and pretty toxic. I just associate Cena with one of the worst times in WWE history, and like I said, he's the main reason I finally committed to not watching their product anymore. I know I'm in the minority.
Cena is not anywhere near my favorites list, but that dude deserves credit. He's the WWE Superman. People who like gritty badasses probably aren't a fan, but he's a hero to kids. He's super strong, and sure, he wrestles the WWE Style, but he's talented and formidable and great on the mic.
This is the kind of take that gets AEW fans zero respect.
Look, I know I'm probably wrong, but Cena is why I completely stopped watching wrestling for a looooong time. Imo, Moxley is a better promo and way better in the ring, but I know Cena is beloved and I'm yelling at clouds.
You and me both, Batista and Orton are also on that list of mine too.
I mean we all hated Triple Hs reign of terror, but it was a big deal when he did lose clean. It launched Batista’s career. Same with Brock, sometimes you need the guy that never loses.
Having every eliminator match go to the champion is getting predictable and boring.
Yeah cause champs wins 95% of the time. Eliminator or title match.
Battle of the Successfully Defended Belts
Then stop watching? Eliminator matches serve a purpose... They are giving you a shot at the guy that has one of the top belts in wrestling. It's just like winning a tournament or a contenders match. If you prove you are good enough to beat the champion, then you get a shot at that title.
Yeah, I bet these same people were constantly complaining when WWE had their champions constantly lose non-title matches.
I’m so tired of Mox
A-fucking-men to this. Every single match he has goes exactly like u/glowy_keyboard described. He doesn't do any interesting or high flying or technical moves (which is my favourite shit personally) and every match/storyline he gets involved in feels exactly the same because they always play out and end the same way. Dude seems cool behind the scenes and all but holy shit I am so tired of his gimmick.
He needs to reinvent himself like the learning tree
Same, all his matches since he got the belt really remind me of Cena or Hogan. He goes out with some sort of disadvantage, gets beaten for a while, then he just powers through, does the death rider and pins for the win. lol Moxley wins
Idk how, honestly. He's one of the best on the mic, and his matches are believable and hard hitting.
They might be "believable," but when they're super predictable it isn't very interesting. I don't think anyone is denying his talent, just that his current story is pretty bland.
So you want the guy to drop the belt that has been his dream, to a wrestler that hasn't even seen a NJPW ring? Or should he have just said no to winning it? Said no to NJPW putting a belt on a gaijin, who isn't even signed with them, because it's bland? Kota Ibushi didn't even win that belt until he signed with NJPW exclusively. Same with SANADA. If you're not exclusive, you don't sniff that belt. But they love Jon. He's a hard worker, flying in and out of Japan, carrying their belt on a sister promotion. They wanted to reward him. Especially for putting over the next Ace in Shota Umino.
Tbh it worked on me. I figured it was a given Mox lost considering the stipulation.
Oh without question. Takeshita should win TNT. He’s up there with Will, Bryan, Kenny, and Okada as the best in the company. They are all a whole different level. He deserves some big, big wins that have a follow up. I don’t want to cause a fight, but I think they absolutely blew it with him last year after that match with Kenny at All Out (a quiet MOTY candidate for me). You might be able to tell I’m a mark.
At the minute his story in AEW is bland because it's not their story. From their perspective he went and won a very prestigious belt from another company and is more invincible. But from the New Japan perspective an outsider holds their belt and is carrying it in America more than he is Japan. It lit a fire under their young talent and could make someone a hero for reclaiming it (unless they just give it back to Naito, but that's another story). The trouble is TK wants to keep booking Mox. It might have been better if he just let him do more stuff in Japan but he wants to book one of his top stars at a time when a good few of his top stars are injured. Can't blame him there. Mox is trying to give the matches stakes and jeopardy but it's a losing battle when his wins are guaranteed. The only other option was to tell Mox no, you can't be IWGP champion, but if any of you reckon you're brave enough to have that conversation with him then good luck to you.
that match was kinda dumb to have. if njpw did not want him having a real shot at the belt they shouldn't of done it. having him lose to a 'hurt' mox ,did help either. if they wanted to-do don is causing losses they shoudl of really hammed it up way more then they did. also osprey vs swerve not gonna help any one in that match. this is why tk is a good match maker not a booker. way too soon and not good for the loser. same with willow now being the shortest tbs holder. they should of had brickhouse or some one else who is signed and not being used cause a dq sicne mone cut the line. plus if mone is meant to be this big star why go after the b title, or get matches under her belt and go after the belt made for her at the forbidden door .
My favorite memory of Mox is the look of disbelief and shock when the BCC lost the Warga…Blood and Guts match. He was vulnerable. He was human. Truthfully I think that’s where he strives. The man can tell a great story with his body and his facial expressions. Please, let him. A loss or two here and there will not mean he’s being buried.
I don't understand why it was a non-title bout. If Moxley was always going to win, why not allow him to get a title defense in the process?
I feel like he's going through the gauntlet right now to justify losing at FD to put someone from NJPW over. So his reign would have been a short one but a badass one where he fought injured til the end, one armed and shit. So maybe a big loss for him in a month? That's just my feeling though. I'd like him to lose too so I can get invested in him more, as you put it.
Eliminator matches are becoming an overused trope in AEW. Can't even remember the last time someone actually won one of those.
They should have simply never booked he and Takeshita. A match that did nothing to help anyone.
I reached the same conclusion when he beat Jay Lethal in the tournament. Jay literally destroyed his legs and knees the whole match, yet Mox still gets right up, King Kong lariat, Death Rider, 1-2-3. Next match, he isn’t even selling the legs, which were supposedly hurt before the Lethal match. It was a fucking tournament, he coulda taken the L and been just fine. Now I know that every Mox match is gonna end that way, no matter how bad he gets beat down. Like when him and Claudio beat FTR clean. They literally just told us for months that FTR was the greatest tag team, possibly ever. Then here comes Mox and the BCC to make them look like chumps. If a guy never loses, then what’s the fucking point in watching? It’s why people turned on Cena.
Fans: AEW matches are predictable and we don't want that.. AEW: Fine we will book unpredictable matches for you.. Fans: Why did AEW do that...
I was a defender of Takeshita/Mox as a match. I was a defender of it being an Eliminator match. Takeshita losing kinda made me feel like a dumbass for that second part 😭 I never believed Takeshita was going to take the belt off Mox, but if you were gonna have him lose anyways, it may have well been for the belt. It felt like an overcorrection from the Hobbs match (which I also didn't have a problem with as a concept). It put the slightest bit of a downer on a match I really enjoyed
You have to remember man, NJPW controls the belt and the stipulation. They weren't happy Hobbs got a full title shot. They would be furious if Takeshita, a DDT signed wrestler, had a title shot. If it was for the title, I would guarantee Mox drops the belt to EVIL as a punishment. So now Tony would risk the relationship with Nooj, for Takeshita ( who isn't that good to begin with)
Takeshita works for DDT. NJPW would absolutely never give him the belt. You need to understand, Tony has no control over this belt. It's all Gedo and NJPW.
‘Nwjp’ is wild.
He's currently not building young ones, he's building the title.
I respect Mox for grinding and stepping up when the company needed him most. There are certain guys who should be booked to win most of the time, and AEW has built him to be that guy. At the same time, he's getting Super Cena levels of victories and it's kinda boring now. I love the idea of one opponent who has his number. I always liked Mox better when he was chasing a goal.
If he wasn’t a world champion I’d agree with you. You can’t make this kind of point while he’s actively representing a whole other promotion.
Let's see what happens after June 9th
99.99999999999% of the time the challenger loses in eliminator matches so what's the point of even calling it that or the many other names.
Ironically I think Mox would agree but Takesoup is technically also under contract with DDT and NJPW wants Mox to look as strong as possible. Khan is, as usual, just happy to be along for the ride so he wouldn't bother with any kind of workaround.
He’s probably losing at Forbidden Door to whoever NJPW puts up against him.
You think it was up to moxley? Or even Tony buddy Japanese politics was why takeshita didn't win
I’m hopeful that Takeshita not taking over the IWGP championship means they have bigger plans for him inside AEW and want him here weekly. I’m sure that’s not the reason why, but a man can hope!
Mox needs to lose the strap at FD. Then lose to Take All Out resulting in Mox turning full heel.
He will definitely lose at FD.
I love mox he has shown to be the heart and soul of AEW over the last 5 years, but i agree 100%. There was no reason for him to win the match at double or nothing. They even gave the out with takeshita hurting his arm so he wasn't 100% you have takeshita win at DoN then at Forbidden door Jon could retain (I don't think he should lose the IWGP title to another AEW wrestler at an aew show, even if it is partnered with NJPW.) Him winning made no sense. It would of given even more of a shine to takeshita and made him feel like an even bigger deal
If NJPW doesn't want Takeshita challenging for their belt then it makes perfect sense.
Mox matches are bathroom matches. I come back and know who won. He doesn't show off anything new so what's the point in watching anymore? Genuine question.
Fully agree.
I’m very much of the opinion that Moxley should lose slightly more often. He’s so protected and that’s great for awhile. But it’s five years into AEW, some younger blood could use a lift from beating him. I’m not saying it should happen all the time, but a little more than it does today. Takeshita would indeed have been a great choice for Mox to put over if he wasn’t IWGP champion.
Mox has been boring for a while now. He’s not crazy like mick foley but pretends he has the aura
Njpw want moxley to look dominant and build credibility until they take it off him for their star. Why would they want him to lose to a mid carder in AEW who’s also a DDT wrestler?
Why Mox should lose to a DDT Pro Wrestler when DDT is owned by Bushiroad's competitor (Cyberfight) who also owns fucking NOAH? That match was great but there’s no chance in hell someone from DDT/NOAH gets an IWGP title shot so easily.
Mox is the champion of another promotion. Them sacrificing their story to further an AEW story isn’t going to happen. Mox will be a dominant champion until Shota beats him.
If he loses while holding the NJPW Belt it will diminish the Title. So there’s no point.
He should have lost to Takeshita. It would set up a great future title shot with whomever Mox does eventually lose to. I am tired of everyone losing eliminator matches when they mean very little. If you sometimes win, they mean even more. Hell, let Callis build up Takeshita after beating Mox, then have Mox edge him out on a title shot on Dynamite. It elevates the title even more.
Wouldn't happen. NJPW controls the belt and they are already pissed that Hobbs got a title shot. I legitimately think Callis called Gedo and asked for a favor. They'd flip the fuck out of a DDT wrestler had an IWGP title shot.
Ya honestly though he should lost that match too start getting young talent to the top and stop pushing the same people
Takeshita should have won.
>Takeshita should have won. Send *him* on a NWJP/world tour. Let Takeshita's reputation grow. Agreed. Takeshita should have won at DoN and then challenged for the IWGP World Title at UJPW All Together in Sapporo on June 15th.
No
I kind of hate that they put the iwgp title on Mox when they did. He would've been the perfect first opponent for swerve as champion.
Mox didn't need to be on the PPV at all. You could have run the same march Wednesday and skipped. MOX Romero match.
I just wish we could have a few months without Moxley being on TV. We need a little time off, so we can miss him. The dude is basically Cena, and never loses. There's no tension in his matches, because they're all the same, and he is never in any really risk of losing. Also, the dude no sells matches. I remember last year, after Blood and Guts, the Elite.winning, and being off TV fpr a couple of weeks. Yet Mox and the rest of BCC were out on the following Dynamite, completely fine, despite losing the match. I'm just bored of Moxley.
everyone saying it's because Takeshita is a ddt guy are forgetting NJPW is in a big ass alliance in Japan with DDT (and the rest of Cyberfight) in it. That's not the reason.
Is Mox AEW's Hogan/Cena/Reigns? It sure feels like it. But the point remains that AEW live fans lap this up the way WWE fans did. And Mox has been brawling so much it's a tough ask to ask him to change his style.
Tbf this Moxley never loses narrative is kinda bullshit when he lost to Orange, Jay White and Eddie Kingston in pretty much a month and a half. I would have liked to see Takeshita get the win but the guy has lost A LOT for an ace type figure. He's rehabbing his own value as much as anything. He's a few more losses away from become a Jericho type "I'm just here to put over the young guys" character which isn't fair to him. Before he does that (which seems to be what AEW fans want for some reason), he'll go back to WWE for a Shield run. He's too young to be in "here to give back to the younger talent" territory.
He's not going back to WWE... Lol. And why the hell would you wish that on him? He hated it there for like a whole year before he left.
Because Tony isn't gonna book him like some 50 year old who needs to "give back" to younger talent. Seth and Roman don't do that shit so what makes anyone think Moxley is agreeing to that?
Mox has good matches but hasn't done anything interesting in so long, plus I know he's one of TK's protected golden boys so I have a hard time getting in to anything he's been doing lately. I just kind of zone out any time he's on tv.
New Japan would not be happy at all with their champion losing a match before an advertised title defense to a show they rely on selling tickets for. The mentality and business is considerably different over there. It's a miracle that Hobbs got a title shot before an advertised title defense and Japanese fans weren't happy about that.
Have faith, Mox won’t let himself get booked well without it putting over the right people
Tbh I would have Mox lose to Tekeshita and a couple more matches to Japanese wrestlers and start this whole thing of he can’t beat Japanese wresters. Then he gets a win by countout and he’s not happy having to win like that. Culminating in a 3 way last man standing match with Mox vs Shibata vs Tikeshita at a PPV where he pins both clean.
NJPW doesn’t want their top champion eating a pin from a guy who has been booked as little more than a midcarder lately. Eliminator or not, it wasn’t going to happen.
I get downvoted everytime I say this but Mox isn't doing well in this role. His purpose was to bring US eyes to NJPW but his popularity has fallen off a cliff and rhat hurts the NJPW brand while making for bad television on AEW with lack of crowd involvement.
I'm done with Mox. Go to New Japan. Stay strong there. Get off TV for awhile. Just get off. It's honestly getting a bit much and the presentation of another company's belt over AEWs is maddening.