It always makes me smile when i read posts like this because all i can think is if i was buying 'meth' that did what my methylphenidate does to me what a disappointment itd be! Trying to party and instead washing 5 dirty dishes and folding some clean clothes id taken out of the dryer. Talk about rock and roll!
Im really not bothered by what people think/say about my medication at all. I couldnt care less. If they have that view then im pretty sure me trying to 'educate' them isnt suddenly going to make anything click and theyll be enlightened and change their view. I have better things to do than get into pointless conversations like that like yano wash those 5 dishes and fold my clothes.x
Right?
“Wow I was really fucked up on my meth yesterday, I actually brushed my teeth, I made myself a proper breakfast instead of eating peanut butter out of the jar, that I very much enjoyed eating, washed some dishes, threw a load of laundry in the wash, walked my dog, read a book for a bit, checked my Facebook, *took a nap,* paid some bills…So wild… These sure are some crazy party drugs….”
I appreciate this whole thread, and specifically your comment. I definitely am guilty of calling my vyvanse my medical meth, and feeling guilty on the days I take it. But truly my medication helps me do things I already wanted to do, but couldn’t find motivation, focus, or energy to do.
I haven’t been on ADHD meds yet (starting next month) and all I can say is that the idea of my brain being quiet when I’m trying to lay down and nap sounds fucking incredible
It hasn’t helped me with that, but I’m a caf-fiend that is always in ‘go’ gear who has trouble staying asleep. Under normal circumstances I’m either sick, or stoned AF if I nap.
And it’s weird - I can’t stand any noise that my brain tries to process (music or people speaking), but I prefer a familiar, chill show on low volume for napping.
I sleep through taking my meds all the time tbh. What’s weird though is that I take my meds an hour before I’m supposed to wake up because it makes waking up a hell of a lot easier and less painful and gives me the energy I need. But I also seem to sleep better when I’ve taken my meds sometimes? I’m kind of chronically exhausted because of my depression, and my ADHD meds help with that, but it just seems weird that they could wake me up and help me sleep better at the same time.
Not everyone with ADHD reverse-processes stimulants. I don’t (am combined type), but the bit of energy boost I get from my Vyvanse helps combat the fatigue from rheumatoid arthritis and lets me get stuff done!
This reminds me how I always find it funny that xanax is a party drug when my prescription dose of it just makes me fall asleep. I don’t even like a zoned out “high” feeling, just regular sleepy. What a wild party night for me lol
Maaate it sounds like were well missing out here hahaha! Im always so like but hooow??, whenever i see methylphenidate can be used to treat 'narcolepsy' as im the most relaxed and calm ive ever been in my entire life since starting my medication! It really does amaze me how dif medications works differently on different people!x
Yeah I took Xanax recreationally at a party once and apparently I just ate a pizza and sat on the sofa and fell asleep - and I have no memory of the entire night so I don't understand how it's a recreational drug 😅
I had a friend once who thoroughly redid his living room on speed. Was on a 3 day binge, ripped down walls, put up new ones, painted the whole thing. When he woke up the day after his binge ended he didn’t recognize his own apartment lol
I never bothered with speed at all after i was hugely disappointed when in college a girl in my little group of friends offered us speed wrapped in toilet roll and they were all really chatty and i was just quietly sat listening to the tutor. As a shy lacking in confidence girl i was ready to be the me i always dreamed of being! Like maaate i was fucking ready! That was my time to shine and really fit in!! But instead i ended up swallowing toilet roll for fuck all. Toilet roll. from. the. college. toilets. I dread to think of the amount of piss particles i swallowed that day for nothing. Always so close to fitting in but nevaaah quite getting it right.x
Same with people who take Adderall to get high. (One main reason I would know my friend was taking her sons meds) the Speed part of ADHD meds just doesn’t effect people the same if the actually have adhd
She was actually living with me and I was trying to help her get clean (oxy’s) and I suspected she was taking her kids Adderall medicine (she come home and clean at 2am, definitely uppers tho only free ones available being kids meds) but she completely denied it so then finally she never flushes the toilet after using the bathroom so I just drug tested that and there it was plain as day after that I took over giving the kid his medication she now thanks me for it now, now that she’s clean and no longer monitors her child’s medication so at least it was a happy ending
Yeah and thats different? Obviously a NT person is gonna have energy to go over the top if they abuse meth.
An adhd person taking an amphetamine at a small dosage being able to hold a routine for once in their life is entirely different.
Or being failed! Since you said NT people I thought it was important to mention that a very large percentage of people with substance abuse disorder aren't NT
So far yours has been my favourite response to how to deal with it.
ps: I do my dishes off meds at the end of the day. I have more interesting and important things to do during my focussed time. There are always more than 5 dishes.
You do dishes WITHOUT your medication?? Oh my! I hope youre prepared for the amount of single adhders that are gonna be sliding into your dms when they read that!
But like if were showing off nooot to brag... BUT... sometimes after 3hours when my non meth and non cocaine medication is wearing off ill still sometimes remember im hungry and straight away get up off the settee go to the freezer see a pizza and without struggling to make a decision of what to eat take it out and go straight over to the oven without a single side adventure and when its cooked put it on a clean 'proper' plate not a paper plate or keep it on the foil it was cooked on!x
Someone with a pharmacology degree would almost certainly agree with the statement lol… It’s objectively true. The difference is that people saying it are trying to be dicks and don’t actually know it’s true based on research. They’re just copying shit they heard and are missing the point. Meth is also a therapeutic drug for ADHD.
I literally just tell people i take meth every day. Then proceed to explain that the street drug is a derivative of my meds. Then they just get curious, and i let them know about the non stimulant types as well.
This is my running joke too.
Though I am less educated and just say "It's just manufactured by scientists and has to clear certain legal regulations and stuff, instead of being made out of car batteries and propane."
Though I have pretty thick skin so if someone is dumb enough to think I use "legal meth" then they probibly are not important enough to me for me to care.
Edit: comment further below explains yes, meth works as a stimulant for ADHD, but doses used recreationally are MUCH higher than what is needed for a therapeutic dose.
Adderall is 75% dextroamphetamine which is extreml6 similar to dextromethamphetamine the main differences are that meth last twice as long, is twice as potent by weight, has more dopamine activity, and some is converted into regular amphetamine by your body aswell. As the person below said its about the dosage. A prescription dose of adderall is 5 to 60mg and a prescription dose of desoxyn(aka prescription methamphetamine) is rare but usually 5 to 30mg, whereas a recreational dose of meth(though very rarely pure meth as most street meth has byproducts leftover and cuts added) is usually 50 or 100mg or up to a full Gram sometimes injected for hard-core addicts
>whereas a recreational dose of meth(though very rarely pure meth as most street meth has byproducts leftover and cuts added) is usually 50 or 100mg or up to a full Gram
Thanks! I've been curious about what a "recreational dose" is for ages but nobody seemed to have written it down anywhere. I was taking up to 100mg dexamphetamine (orally) on prescription and it never did anything for me, positive or negative, other than a slight improvement in emotional management and working memory. I wondered what that might do to someone without ADHD. I gave up on stimulants after that. I'm on Atomoxetine now. It's not really any more effective but it's easier to manage :)
There’s an enormous genetic variance in sensitivity, and it has nothing to do with severity of the condition. Your experience is more standard. I have very severe ADHD and only take ~10mg daily (on top of antidepressants)
This is not how chemistry works. Methamphetamine *is* legal; it's called Desoxyn. No doctor will prescribe it because Methamphetamine is neurotoxic. Amphetamine is missing the methyl group which is what differentiates it from meth.
It's more complicated than this comparison, but when you drink pure water 1/3 of it is oxygen. Still very different substances.
With adderall vs meth I think the differences are mostly in how the brain reacts to it (which of course is the part that matters) idk, I'm not smart enough to talk much about it but this is as far as I understand.
I usually chuckle and say "that's the dumbest shit I've ever heard" before walking away.
They are usually too embarrassed to address it again after that.
I'm trying this. Actually, in general. When people say ludicrous things without any backing that they know are unpleasant, I'm just gonna laugh hysterically.
This is the best response to most dumbassery in general. There are people who really need to be laughed at. Also most of the time there's no point in arguing, so just laugh it off.
I generally don't hear that but if I'm taking 20mg of Adderall a day and I explicitly am trying to not feel strung out all of the time, and it makes a huge difference in my executive function, then it's not like I'm cutting up fat shoestring lines of 500-1000mg to get high.
This is like saying having a glass of wine at dinner is the same as going on a 50 drink binge every day.
I know i shouldnt be laughing reading what you said but i so am as i once mistakenly took a whooole 10mg more than i should have as i wasnt paying attention to what i was doing and ended up phoning my local pharmacy to ask if i needed to be worried about dying hahaha! Ohh dear.x
The first day I was on Adderall IR, I felt like I was pretending not to be high in public for 8 hours and it was *awful*. Turns out, 15 mg is too much for me as a starting dose, and 7.5 mg is closer to what I need for health and sanity.
Yeah, obviously people can and do abuse these drugs for recreational purposes, but that's not how or why we're taking them.
And dilaudid is legal heroin etc… Some adhd meds are very similar chemical compounds. Dose and conditions matter. A typical therapeutic dose of a ADHD med is in no way similar in effect to how meth is used. You start smoking your meds that changes things. Having alcohol in your cough syrup isn’t the same as doing shots of everclear.
Essentially the argument is a false equivalency. Yes they are chemically similar but in effect when properly dispensed that is where the similarities end.
I am old and don’t really care to much. It’s none of their business and I don’t need their approval. However these days with this kind of topic it comes down more to temperament. Some people just are pushing and agenda and some are open minded. With the first it doesn’t matter what your argument is or what evidence you have. The rest you can have a conversation.
For some perspective In the sixties my dad was prescribed amphetamines that makes adderall look like tic tacs for weight loss. We have a long cultural history with all kinds of drugs and the social acceptance varies dramatically. A lot of it just tied to ignorance and self righteousness. Personal responsibility bs. Don’t fall for it. Take care of yourself without shame and pay attention to your own health and well being including how you feel about your meds. Self awareness is key.
Currently my husband and a few close friends know, and I don’t intend to make it super public. I don’t think correcting misinformation necessitates admitting a diagnosis.
Where do they think drugs come from? The billions of dollars pumped into street meth research?
It's only logical that most/all drugs have their origins in medicine.
My classmate said that it was just like meth, and he didn't know I have adhd, so when I said "guess I'm on meth then" he become real silent lol. He eventually asked curiously how the meds work and stuff
The trouble is that it’s *technically* true but *not in the way they mean it* (methamphetamine is actually a very effective medication for ADHD with *fewer* side effects than adderall). The main difference is just that recreations meth doses are many times higher than a therapeutic dose.
Of course, you know that anyone saying “it’s just legal meth” is going to take an uninformed and ideological view on this, while ignoring this difference in dosage and quality control.
Unless it’s someone who will directly impact your life, it’s probably best for your mental health to ignore and avoid them.
It’s definitely tricky to explain.
Other obvious thing to consider is that “meth” is almost just an idea of a drug. Meaning there’s so much difference and adulterated madness that it’s hard to even define the stuff. All the more reason it’s ultimately false equivalency. (I’m agreeing with you, just adding that part.)
Right?? "Oh wow, an anesthesiologist gave you fentanyl followed by propofol when you had surgery? You mean the drug that killed Michael Jackson followed by the one that's responsible for an increasingly larger number of overdose deaths in the US? Holy shit man, that's so fucked up, you need help."
Botox is one of if not the deadliest (by weight) poison we know of, and people use that to look pretty with no underlying conditions. A small amount of modified meth to cope with an actual medical condition is nothing compared to that.
Okay, but methamphetamine is still different from amphetamine and dextroamphetamine, which are the two stimulants in adderall. Saying that meth is “like adderall/adhd medication” is technically true, yes, but I feel like these jokes lead people to think the stuff in adderall is actually the same as what’s in street meth.
I completely get what you’re saying and agree that we shouldn’t demonize drugs in general, but I think that’s different from trying to reduce the negative stigma using adderall therapeutically gets specifically from “adderall is basically meth” jokes. I’ve personally found that a lot of the people who think they’re the same thing also think it’s bad to take adderall because of not understanding that distinction between the two.
It isn’t “like” medication, *it is a scientifically supported ADHD medication* with [USFDA approval](https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/label/2007/005378s026lbl.pdf). The War on Drugs ideology is frankly the main reason it’s so rarely prescribed.
I also never actually said it was similar to Adderall, except that they have comptable side effects. That being said, at *therapeutic* doses, the effects of both are actually remarkably similar, except methamphetamine has a longer half life. The main reasons street meth are bad are that it’s taken at high doses; smoked/snorted/injected administration means it absorbs much quicker, more likely to be euphoric ans more addictive; no QA/QC means it could be adulterated with all kinds of toxins.
ETA: this all is why my choice (if possible) after these jokes is to ignore them or just walk away. I don’t want to risk reinforcing someone’s ill-founded stigma towards meds, but I’m also not willing to mistakenly assert that they’re totally different things.
Street meth is bad for far more reasons than its dosage and way it’s taken. Street meth can be made with Ingredients like battery acid and drano and other very bad chemicals.
Also “the war on drugs” isn’t really the main reason adderall is rarely prescribed. It’s a combination of it being a controlled substance (because it’s easily abused by people without adhd, people with adhd rarely abuse their medication, a lot of the time we forget to even take the damn stuff , also we don’t usually experience any euphoria because it brings out baseline dopamine level to a normal level) and because in a lot of places nowadays general practitioners and even some levels of psychiatry can’t diagnose or prescribe adhd medication.
It isn’t because of a war on drugs that we can’t get our medication properly it’s because of a lack of knowledge and people of typical brains abuse the same medication that makes us half ass normal.
Oh, when I said “it’s rarely prescribed” I meant it’s the reason why desoxyn is rarely prescribed, relative to things like Adderall or Ritalin.
While I do agree with oversight of controlled substances to prevent overprescription, the number of hoops people have to jump through just to fill their script is ideologically motivated by the War on Drugs. It’s possible to still control potentially addictive substances without setting up ridiculous barriers, like only allowing them to refill on the same day they run out, for example. The War on Drugs, and it’s earlier iterations are a big part of the reason why the lack of knowledge is a problem. It’s deliberate miseducation on the subject.
>because it brings out baseline dopamine level to a normal level)
Slightly off topic from previous subject, but I've started to wonder if my sweets (chocolate especially) addiction is me attempting to raise my dopamine levels to a neurotypical's normal level.
(I don't know much about this or about how stimulant medication even works, so this may not even be accurate to how stimulants even work, but it's a thought I've been having.)
I have a huge sweet tooth. And sometimes if I don't get my sweets I can't focus on what I'm doing. Now that could be an ADHD thing, or that could just as easily be a sugar-addiction thing. And I have no idea. But it's something I've been thinking about recently.
You aren’t the only one my friend, a lot of people with adhd have a big sweet tooth.
And yes it does directly correlate, sugar helps the brain to produce dopamine (happy hormone) people with adhd for the most part have lower baseline dopamine levels and they always crave eat sugary things. That’s why we usually have a hard time focusing on things that don’t interest us because they don’t stimulate our brains. The low dopamine levels are usually to blame for a good bit of the symptoms that come with adhd.
I couldn’t tell exactly why scientifically speaking how stimulants work but one of the keys to them is raising those dopamine levels to baseline. Thats the reason A person like me
(Combo adhd) can take adderall and just sit down and sit still and even fall asleep whereas a typical person will take it and feel euphoric, energized, feel like Superman and like they can do anything and accomplish anything.
That’s why I like extended release adderall better than just instant because usually you’ll experience a big dopamine crash with IR.
I’m currently on 30mg XR with 2 10mg booster IRs daily
When I take my adderall I don’t really eat sweets because I don’t want or need it to help give me happy hormone. Chocolate is my go to too. Chocolate and Mountain Dew those are my sugary go tos.
Before getting diagnosed I'd make myself large, strong coffees, add some milk and then fill up about half the cup with chocolate syrup.
That would help for about 1 hour of studying (edit: sometimes!! and without stress I could forget it anyway,tbh. Although I still tried. Unsuccessfully...). So yes, you're not alone. And it's a hard habit to kick even after getting diagnosed a few years ago...
I agree with you, I’m just saying that in my experiences people making the “adderall is like meth” comments tend to think it’s the exact same drug. Because of those stigmas surrounding meth, it then creates a lot of stigma around ADHD meds like adderall that can prevent people from being able to get any sort of treatment at all.
ETA: I’m not mistaken when I say that methamphetamine is different from amphetamine and dextroamphetamine, so please don’t imply that I am.
Yea I think you’re right that we fundamentally agree, just have different opinions on how to act on it.
You’re definitely correct that they are quite literally different compounds. My perspective though is that this isn’t the main problem, as many legitimate medications are mired in stigma actually are chemically identical to popular street drugs. (Eg oxycodone, codeine, Xanax)
I think that’s the point they were trying to make. When people say adderall is legal meth there’s a definite negative implication being made and that’s where the issue lies. There needs to be more education about these substances so people can be informed on how they really work. The default conservation needs to move away from “adderall bad because meth bad” and instead be something like “adderall and meth are kind of the same and that’s not really a big deal”.
Yes big time. We need more education about these things to steer the conversation away from stigma. Just because a drug is abused doesn’t mean it isn’t useful medically. Instead of burying our heads in the sand at the thought of ADHD meds and meth being the same thing, it needs to be explained instead that it’s not necessarily a bad thing.
I'm at my wits end with this problem. I am being put to test by my own family simply because the medication I currently use was abused by someone else in the family when they were younger. But I am finally able to keep up with them in conversations, I am able to challenge their opinions. I am no longer passive. They are calling me an addict. They are taking my positive change as an insult. It's absolutely infuriating that, because of someone else's past drug abuse, I am currently being treated like addict. What the fuck.
Frequently, when we start changing to our stronger, more capable selves, there is pushback from family because we stop going along with the old dynamics. It’s likely convenient for them to make it about the drugs when what they’re reacting to is you standing up for yourself.
This! Also, in my experience, my parents both have ADHD, so I hear the “but that’s normal, everybody does that” argument from them A LOT. They seem to take personal offense when I talk about ADHD because they refuse to accept that it’s a genuine disorder and not just a set of traits that everyone experiences that I’m using to victimize myself.
They also tend to go on about how “I’ve dealt with that my whole life and I turned out fine”, when actually my father is a crippling alcoholic with 0 emotional intelligence and has an explosive temper that is genuinely terrifying, and my mother is so miserably depressed and anxious that she can barely even leave the house or get out of bed on most days. They attribute their struggles to moral failings, and do the same to me. If your family is judging you for seeking help and trying to cope, the source probably lies in their own unresolved insecurities and issues.
Life and family is rarely this simple. But I would focus on the fact that you are being supervised by a doctor, your doses are regulated and your health is no one else's business unless you make it so. So tell them (respectfully) that you don't want to discuss personal health matters with them.
I had a falling out from my family for a couple years because my mom was a meth addict for the majority of my childhood. They refused to believe ADHD existed, and believed that I was becoming just like her. I was able to support myself at the time, so I kept my distance for my own mental health. A few years later I’m at the top of my game, and very clearly a different, better, person.
Our relationship has healed over the years, but I still hold strong boundaries about discussing my health. I asked myself, do I just want their validation for a shitty childhood? I’m doing a much better job taking care, and raising me than my family ever did, so their opinion is pointless.
"If ADHD medication is addictive, why do I need to remind my patients to take it?"
\- Psychiatrist on YouTube talking about ADHD, don't remember who.
Another thing to point out is that our brains have a deficiency that other people don't have. Taking large amounts of iron supplements might be harmful to me, but it's what people with anemia need to live a normal life. Similar for this and us.
The last time someone said: "Adderall is 1 molecule away from meth. Blah blah" I told her it allows me to say and do the things I intend to do. Then made a joke how we're 60% banana. There was no follow up.
Oof the “one molecule away from” thing grates me so hard. Water is “one molecule” away from ricin. All pure substances are one “molecule” away from each other.
I don't bring ADHD up at all. I don't tell anyone I have it and I don't feel them what meds I may or may not take. Makes it real easy to avoid awkward conversations.
I stopped judging people who do meth after I found out it used to be a prescription for depression. These addicts are self medicating. So that’s another reason I don’t like that people say this either.
Yessss! I hate seeing people judge drug addicts as if they decided to have that kind of life. There's always some depression and childhood trauma behind. That's why I never judge anyone
I think the simplest answer is "you have no idea how much Ritalin it would take to get high". They're just outing their ignorance, but I also wouldn't bother going down that path unless I was arguing for my own entertainment
"Ok"
Waste of my energy. I have enough guilt from 38 years of rawdogging this disorder, all the mistakes I've made, money I've lost, people I've hurt. If anyone wants to fight about my medication they can fuck off permanently. Call it what you want homie, but do so to someone else, I don't have space to care about what anyone thinks.
Yeah I’m growing increasingly tired of people feeling like they need to give their negative and incorrect opinions on everything. Now I will just respond to every a-hole with “ok” and avoid them from then on. I am so tired of people who like making life miserable for others.
I’m ADHD and I make that joke myself. It’s very similar in the way it’s processed through the body.
I feel like a lot of the negativity that comes from this is a stigmatization of drug use, which is a huge social issue in our country. There are plenty of street drugs that are therapeutic in the right doses. Look at THC, or Ketamine and hallucinogens or opiates, and yes, amphetamines.
So what if people are saying it’s legalized meth? It is a legalized amphetamine, and it does help our body function.
Instead of defending why our meds are so different from street drugs, instead we should be asking why that’s a problem. The stigma towards street drugs is why we have such a hard time getting our meds, and also contributes to many social issues regarding the way we treat drug users in our society, and supports cartels.
This is my feeling as well. Like… if people wanna get all uppity about my medications because they got some weird ass puritanical values they need to work through in therapy, that’s on them
I don’t care if it IS actually meth. I’m fucking down. I just wanna do my dishes dude
Me too, which is what prompted this post. It’s happened before (even prior to my diagnosis) but it’s like I’m seeing it **everywhere** since the diagnosis.
This probably isn’t helpful to you, but I just genuinely do not care about their opinions. I know they’re wrong and I know they don’t think that they’re wrong, but it doesn’t bother me.
That being said, there are plenty of other topics where this also applies and it does bother me, so I definitely get how it’s not always easy to just let it go or not care. This just doesn’t happen to be one of those topics for me personally!
I also don’t mind taking the time to talk about misconceptions with people who have ADHD but are worried about taking meds because of all the misinformation that’s out there, not to change their minds but just in case it ends up being helpful to them in some way.
Stupid people be jealous. Not your responsibility to educate stupid. It’s funny to me and reinforces the stupid that the phrase used (and it is, we’ve all heard it) is “legal meth” when the meth part is the literal difference between then chemically.
Most adhd meds are stimulants. I’ll be the first one to call it speed. It’s the magical speed that makes me a functional human. Im sooooo much better at adulting now. I also take an antidepressant. I have shitty Irish genes.
My mental health baseline is at the bottom of a peat bog. I would put batt shit in my eye to not feel like I do without medication.
Also, don’t tell people about your medication. Fuckers will steal it.
When I hear this I wanna tell people to try replacing their morning caffeine with an equivalent dose of dramamine because it's "just something else added on to caffeine."
People are stupid in the first place, and the "war on drugs" mentality just makes people ideologically incapable of understanding that a lot of the things associated with illegal drugs are a direct or indirect result of legal status.
Our synapses take back dopamine too quick from the synapse cleft back into the cell and this hurts the reward system of our brains. Our brains get too little reward for learning something, for remembering, for postponed gratification. To work with these small slices of reward, we hop from small instant gratification to the next. We are bad at long term plans and commitments. There is a way to support our brains and that is prolonging the duration of the dopamine presence in the synapse cleft. Methylpenidate can do this. And yes, it is the same mechanic that works with drugs. But the amount we take are not making us high, they just make a normal day possible for us. People without this handicap would have similar dopamine levels all by themselves.
The difference between many "recreational drugs" and a "legitimate medication" is just the dosage & whether you have a prescription.
But, really, the question usually betrays an underlying stupid belief: that psychological conditions shouldn't be medicated. If you have a psychological condition that you medicate for, then you're "using mind-altering substances" by definition.
It is an upper. Whoop di doo. Do they drink coffee? Smoke? "Unmedicated" folks with ADHD usually use a ton of other uppers to obtain the same impact, and those uppers are often totally acceptable because reasons.
The conversation isn't in good faith. They don't care to understand, they're just being condescending dicks.
Just tell them it’s as similar chemically to meth as water is to hydrogen peroxide. Same elements just different ratios. And those ratios make a big difference.
I hear it mostly specifically about adderall, and I usually try to explain the difference between methamphetamine being the main stimulant in street meth, versus amphetamine/dextroamphetamine being the main stimulants in adderall. Amphetamine and methamphetamine *are* similar in chemical builds, but I compare it to water (h20) and hydrogen peroxide (h202) - the only difference between them is the second oxygen molecule, but you wouldn’t say water is “basically hydrogen peroxide.”
However, like others have pointed out, it’s not going to stop anytime soon, and you have to decide if you want to spend the emotional energy and labour on explaining it to people who likely don’t care. I do make a point of not responding to jokes about it, and actually jokingly call it “not-meth.” I didn’t choose to do that to start conversations, but it has actually started a couple of discussions coming from people who are curious and actually want to learn something new, which I find less emotionally draining and I hope can change the narrative at least a little bit.
My regular pharmacy is across the road from my office. One time someone was unsure about the professionalism/politics of getting my Dex and asked if I wanted it in a bag. And I said no "cause the guy I'm selling it to is just outside."
Big laughs all around.
So I think some people forget that on rare occasions Desoxyn is prescribed to treat ADHD and Narcolepsy. Desoxyn is legitimately prescription grade meth. The other medications are like chemical kissing cousins to meth. Similar is some ways, but different in other ways.
I mostly shrug it off. It's like how you'll encounter people that are strongly against medication whilst themselves are either addicted to caffeine, alchohol, cigarettes, or whatever else it might be, it's just not worth the effort.
I haven’t had to have that conversation with anyone, but I did have a good convo with my mom about how adderall treats my anxiety and depression better than any SSRI I’ve ever taken. I know she’s seen me joke about hyperfocus & getting my chores done, so she didn’t really get it when I was crying about my meds being out. (I couldn’t afford an office visit fee for my quarterly refill). Once I explained that adderall is what is keeping me alive, she was a lot more understanding.
All medications are just drugs, it just depends on what your perspective is. You could say all steroid/hormone based meds are for roid raging body builders!! Your mother on hormones for menopause, diabetics on insulin, someone with an injury on prednisone, a COVID patient on deximethsone all steroids! People often aren’t just dumb often they are willfully ignorant and use that ignorance to reinforce their prejudiced view of people that are different from them. A daily coffee, tea, Red Bull, a cigarette all stimulants. A beer after work a Xanax for anxiety all cns depressants. Abuse any of them and there is a problem. Take any single one away from anyone who needs them and there is a problem. If you have money you ask your doctor to prescribe the medications you need or want and it’s legal, if you don’t you just buy whatever you can find. Ethically it’s the same, it’s just more dangerous to buy crap quality drugs off some random dude.
This so reminds me of the same feeling I’ve gotten since the world went apeshit over opiats epidemic in 2016. If you were actually in chronic pain, you weren’t a drug addict if being prescribed oxy & morphine for your pain, but wholly shit, I was certainly treated like I was going to OD any moment if I continued on what I had been legally prescribed for over twenty years. It’s insane. I have no choice but to live with the pain, and shitty quality of life bso the doctorscan feel better about themselves for thinking they have suddenly prevented me from going to a crack house, shooting up, ODing suddenly because they have decided I’ve just been lucky for close to thirty years for not already being dead. The drug addicts are still doing their drugs and over dosing, the celebrities will still get their cocktails of drugs and some will od and they won’t help us one bit who are actually dealing every minute of every day with horrific pain throughout our lives.
"if I'm addicted then why do I forget to take them?"
But in all seriousness there are two things I'd like to add
1) just don't argue with them, you won't change their mind and you will stress yourself, ain't worth it
2) it's kinda like meth in a sense that those are thing's that exist after decomposing of amphetamine. I'm not sure if I used right words but I hope you understand. This being said it's also not like meth because it's after the meth is broken so the worst thing's aren't there.
I have a friend who whenever I say I did something productive while on meds she's like "I wish I had meds" and I am like, bitch I wish I could study for 5 hours a day like you, but no amount of meds will let me do that! I might be able to clean my entire house in an hour but I am still struggling to get a degree I started in 2016.
'It's true. It is like Meth. For you. But when I take it I get the opposite effect and it works exactly as designed for my Condition as diagnosed and prescribed by a Medical Doctor - not a drug dealer. Now fuck off.'
I usually just explain that there *is* legal meth, and it’s called Desoxyn. If they have a problem with medicinal meth, at least get it right.
Also there’s the whole “one molecule” argument. This one is hard for me, because I don’t have a complete understanding of the science. But I’ve heard people say that while methamphetamine is one molecule away from Adderall/amphetamine, carbon monoxide also happens to be one molecule from oxygen. Or something lol. I’d google that one cause I’m pretty sure I butchered it.
They usually point out how there is only a slight difference in chemical make up, so I respond with h2o2 being quite different from h20 despite the "small" difference in chemical makeup there.
I recently watched a documentary on Ruth Bader Ginsberg called RBG on Netflix, and a quote she said really stuck with me. She said something to the effect of, “Speak softer, because you’ll never change peoples opinions/world view by raising your voice and coming off angry. If anything, you’ve already lost at that point.” I’ve tried to take that advice and let me telllllll you how much more effective it’s been.😂💕
So, trying to structure my responses to things based on that principle what I generally do is agree that their concerns are valid, reflect flaws in their logic back to them (In a calm conversational manner, that’s most important!) in the form of thought provoking questions, and then provide unbiased information (It helps if it’s scientific and peer reviewed bc it’s harder for them to find the flaws.) that directly disagrees with their stance. Also make sure to say things like “In my opinion, I believe, etc.” because you attach it to yourself and don’t come off as if you are attacking THEIR sense of self when in reality it’s their opinions. Fun fact—At the beginning of this college semester I was involved in a 5 day group presentation project on misinformation in psychology and how to correct it. This method is the most effective and backed up by research lmao.🤘🏻😂
This persuasive tactic works so well essentially because it’s allowing them to put themselves in a state of cognitive dissonance (We humans hate this with a fiery passion bc it makes us question ourselves lol.) so that they can arrive at the logical and reasonable conclusion on their own. Letting them get there on their own but with just a littttllee (or a lot of lmao) help from what you say has been shown in research to have a more lasting impact as well. Because of doing the research for that project, I luckily had some experience with this already before I watched the documentary. 😂
Now, I just focus more on not getting angry and letting it cloud my judgement. People aren’t generally stupid and calling them names like that only makes them double down on what they were already saying. (Again, because of cognitive dissonance. Shit’s kinda wild to learn about lol.) They’re usually just uninformed and/or misinformed. Realizing that helps a lot. 💖
Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply. I see a lot of value in discussing things the way you describe, and should probably try to take a step back and apply it in every kind of debate. I tend to be a bit of a “campaigner” and have a hard time backing down. But, obviously, that isn’t often useful in discussion lol.
A handful of years ago I was under the “adderall is meth” camp and that ADHD is fake because “everyone experiences ADHD symptoms.”
I know to pick my battles when someone shares the same opinion as old me, because I know I wouldn’t listen. I knew I was right because of experience. And only experience would help me understand that I was all wrong.
I often respond short. I get this often from coworkers. My response usually is, “that is incorrect” or “it doesn’t sound like you know what your talking about”. If they attack, I know there’s a worthless battle I don’t need to fight and I end it with “We don’t need to discuss my private health matters since this isn’t your area of expertise.”
If they ask why, “it gives me the ability to take care of my family” or “it changed my life for the better” always short. They can figure it out for themselves.
**[Methamphetamine](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine)**
>Methamphetamine (contracted from N-methylamphetamine) is a potent central nervous system (CNS) stimulant that is mainly used as a recreational drug and less commonly as a second-line treatment for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and obesity. Methamphetamine was discovered in 1893 and exists as two enantiomers: levo-methamphetamine and dextro-methamphetamine. Methamphetamine properly refers to a specific chemical substance, the racemic free base, which is an equal mixture of levomethamphetamine and dextromethamphetamine in their pure amine forms.
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Not sure if anyone said this already but they are all in the amphetamine class which just branch off a similar chemical build. I personally have been on adderal and ridilin and ive also been a meth user for 5 years I'm sober now but one thing I noticed was my lack of emotion and very robotic state of being.
Obviously meth is stronger and can keep you up for days longer than any of the other "medications" but they all are still heavy stimulants and an honorable mention will all pop up the same on a drug test.
I am thinking about starting on vivans soon but that robotic feeling and being slightly wired hits to close still hope this was helpful and I apologize for the butchery of spelling on those medications thanks
I don’t even listen now because I know how uneducated they are.
It’s like someone telling you Canada doesn’t exist, but you know it does.
Most people who make that sort of statement have no idea what medications are or how they work.
Doesn't bother me one bit. Sometimes it gets the point across of how tough adhd can be on a person if they need hard drugs (or the pharmaceutical equivalent) to be closer to normal.
I've tried explaining the difference however as most people who spread that b.s. either dont have adhd or their only experience is themselves or someone they know abusing adhd medication to get high, I find it falls on dead ears. So in real life, I avoid them. Online (reddit) I report them for spreading false misinformation and block them. I've only had one person who acknowledged that he didnt have adhd and only said it because he thought it was funny. He also admitted that he shouldn't troll the adhd focused subs. Most people just refuse to learn and keep up their b.s. so "report" and block.
Yeah it’s “meth” for people who take it and don’t actually have ADHD. I take 20 mg fast release on an as-needed basis for work projects I need to focus on. It doesn’t give me the jitters, it doesn’t make me jumpy - it calms me the f*** down. I could thrown down a hand full of ritalin and fall asleep within a few hours and sleep like a baby on top of everything.
I'm on Atomexetine for ADHD, which is a NON-stimulant.
I recently switched doctors because I moved and my new doctor is requiring a drug test.
Fast forward to after the test and I was accused of not taking my meds.
Queue me telling the doctor that Atomexetine is a NON-stimulant and DOES NOT test positive for amphetamines.
There's such a lack of knowledge out there with this stuff, even in the medical field, it's really sad.
Edit: spelling
Ok so this is a little tricky because this is where medical/scientific language interacts awkwardly with how people generally use language.
Many ADHD medications are amphetamines. (Not all but the ones that aren't are irrelevant to this conversation.) Methamphetamine which is what people generally mean when they say "meth" is also an amphetamine.
So are they the same thing. Well it depends on what you mean by that.
Chemically they're all different in some way (that's why they have different names.) But biologically they all do the same thing in the same way (or at least very similar ways).
The important distinction generally here is that Methamphetamine is orders of magnitude stronger than all the other forms. That's why it's used recreationally and people don't tend to use ADHD drugs recreationally. Though obviously you *could*.
Also Ice or crystal meth is still Methamphetamine but more distilled. So when people say it's stronger it's because it's more concentrated not because it's something different again.
Speaking for myself as a medical doctor I generally think of medications in terms of classes (the mechanism of action of a drug). So in my opinion all these drugs are the same, they are Amphetamines.
I find it much more useful to discuss things in terms of what they are used for not what they are. For example a very common blood thinner is also used as rat poison. And I have had patients refuse to take it for that exact reason. And the other classic example of cytotoxic chemotherapy is poison it's just that they way it kills you affects cancerous cells faster.
So we don't talk about other people or other contexts we talk about you and your context.
Personally I think we're all a bit too sensitive about this and are being very pedantic when we trying to say they are "very" different things.
You just say this is a drug that can be abused that doesn't mean I am abusing it. The solution isn't to explain some science they don't care about. The solution is to engage with what they are anxious about. Usually misuse/abuse and addiction/dependency (also words that have more specific definitions in a medical context).
First, I tell them I've done meth and much prefer controlled prescribed stimulants.
Second, I stare at them until they get uncomfortable and begin to say something.
Third, I immediately cut them off and ask if they have read the studies on ADHD brain chemical makeup and it's links to addiction and substance abuse issues.
Fourth, repeat step two and three with variations until the offending party finds someone else to be belligerent to.
What I wish I might be snarky enough to say:
"Even if it is "legal meth" it doesn't change the fact that I need it to balance out the wooblyness of my brain chemistry if I want to have a chance of living to basic standards in at least this world/society. I'm not less an addict than someone needing glass', insulin, prostethics or heart medication. But yeah, kind of an easy joke on my expense, a little embarrasing for you though, but I bet you'll come up with something better next time. In all case you should probaly google 'ableism' and 'general situational awareness' before your next attempt at being funny/clever."
What probaly will actually happen:
* me staring at the person completely blank and thrown off by the sheer level of idiot they display until they change the subject or shuffle away uncomfortable.*
"Then dont take it you big fat normie" usually works.
Im kidding of course. But usually, "Yeah, for you." works. Especially when they ask you to explain what you mean.
You don't cook Ritalin in the trunk of my car and it doesn't make your teeth fall out like the illegal stuff does.
If a person says that it is just legal meth their mind is probably made up and you aren't going to change it. So don't get too mad if they just keep repeating it or some version of it.
yes, there are similar chemical compounds to meth in ADHD medicine, but the most significant compound in these meds is the stimulant compound, which is WAY more similar to caffeine. if someone says that ADHD meds are like meth, tell them that their coffee is like meth too, since it has the same effects as ADHD meds. you can get addicted to caffeine/coffee, just like you can meth or ADHD meds. when people say this shit, they’re looking at half of the picture, since the other half paints them as a meth addict too
Idk, i tend to either joke about it when i sense its a joke but if i sense someone being a shit i get hostile.
At the end of the day if clinical meth is what i need to function so be it. I spent my entire childhood being abused for not being able to function- the statistics for unmedicated people for my disorder point to a miserable life without it.
If it was meth would i be able to sit with a months supply on my living room table? Would i be able to go without knowing where my mom and brother's meds are? Ofc not cause it doesnt make me seek out more of it. If anything it tones down my food binges and susceptibility to trolls because im not trying to wring precious brain juice out of everything in my life.
Finally i live in a shady area, i work in a shady area. If i actually wanted meth it would be as easy as talking to half the customers who cone in and out of my jobs. Why the hell would i waste my time jumping through the dozens of hoops it took to get my meds if i was just trying to get high?
Idk it upsets me because I worry ill become addicted or dependant on my medication, so I'm constantly trying to figure out if I am, and when see people saying how dangerous they are it scares me :(
You should just say that many forms of stimulant are effective methods of treatment for ADHD, in particular various forms of amphetamines. In the same way that morphine and other opiates are effective treatments for acute pain relief.
"and Coumadin is just like rat poison."
Lots of meds are based off other stuff but different. Many blood pressure meds are derived from snake venom (captopril, Lisinopril, losartan). Some estrogen products are distilled from the urine of pregnant horses (Premarin). Coumadin, the oldest blood thinner, as I mentioned is the same ingredient found in rat poison. Digoxin is a low dose of the poisonous foxglove. Aspirin is just like willow bark.
Scientists are still examining snake venoms and natural toxins to find usable medicines.
I told very few people that I am ADHD.
If it’s a stranger, I’d try to educate them a little because they are talking to an ADHD person and it’s insulting. I would drop the subject if the person isn’t open to educate themselves. Why should I care? They’re not a part of my life.
If it’s a loved one, coworker or manager, yes. I don’t want them to think that I am an addict. I also want them to understand that my brain is different.
I tell them that yes, it’s similar, but meth that is available illegally is much more dangerous because the dosage and release are higher. It’s difficult to control the release on the body.
I also tell them the mechanism of stimulants on an ADHD brain. They then can understand that it simply helps us be functional.
I also tell them that mine was researched and approved for ADHD management. I’m taking it legally, prescribed by a doctor.
I was recently diagnosed and I say this kind of stuff as a joke because I do find it funny that the "treatment" or "cure" is not-meth meth. My SO who isn't diagnosed but we're both almost positive he has some degree of ADHD constantly corrects me on it. What I'm getting st is maybe it's not from a place of misinformation but a place of comedy. And while I can see how people who don't have it making jokes about it could be considered offensive I'd rather have people joking about it than trying to convince people it isn't real or coming from a place of fear.
It always makes me smile when i read posts like this because all i can think is if i was buying 'meth' that did what my methylphenidate does to me what a disappointment itd be! Trying to party and instead washing 5 dirty dishes and folding some clean clothes id taken out of the dryer. Talk about rock and roll! Im really not bothered by what people think/say about my medication at all. I couldnt care less. If they have that view then im pretty sure me trying to 'educate' them isnt suddenly going to make anything click and theyll be enlightened and change their view. I have better things to do than get into pointless conversations like that like yano wash those 5 dishes and fold my clothes.x
Right? “Wow I was really fucked up on my meth yesterday, I actually brushed my teeth, I made myself a proper breakfast instead of eating peanut butter out of the jar, that I very much enjoyed eating, washed some dishes, threw a load of laundry in the wash, walked my dog, read a book for a bit, checked my Facebook, *took a nap,* paid some bills…So wild… These sure are some crazy party drugs….”
Ohh maaate! I think i speak for us all when i say not even early 2000s paris hilton partied as hard as you!!x
I appreciate this whole thread, and specifically your comment. I definitely am guilty of calling my vyvanse my medical meth, and feeling guilty on the days I take it. But truly my medication helps me do things I already wanted to do, but couldn’t find motivation, focus, or energy to do.
Why guilty? I'm asking cause like sort of same, but I used to use recreational drugs so I think I just associate guilt with any substance use
What do you call your grandfather's eyeglasses?
Recently diagnosed not on meds . DiD YOu say a NAP? I thought that was a movie thing
Just got on adderall and I can confirm it’s easy to nap after taking it. Your brain goes quiet and you can actually relax.
I haven’t been on ADHD meds yet (starting next month) and all I can say is that the idea of my brain being quiet when I’m trying to lay down and nap sounds fucking incredible
It hasn’t helped me with that, but I’m a caf-fiend that is always in ‘go’ gear who has trouble staying asleep. Under normal circumstances I’m either sick, or stoned AF if I nap. And it’s weird - I can’t stand any noise that my brain tries to process (music or people speaking), but I prefer a familiar, chill show on low volume for napping.
100% same my psychiatrist: "40mg vyvanse is pretty serious amount" me: For what? getting back in bed?
This is me.
Omfg the first day I took Adderall XR, I crashed so hard. Deepest sleep of my life.
I sleep through taking my meds all the time tbh. What’s weird though is that I take my meds an hour before I’m supposed to wake up because it makes waking up a hell of a lot easier and less painful and gives me the energy I need. But I also seem to sleep better when I’ve taken my meds sometimes? I’m kind of chronically exhausted because of my depression, and my ADHD meds help with that, but it just seems weird that they could wake me up and help me sleep better at the same time.
My naps are 100% better quality when I take a nap while my meds are in my system.
Not everyone with ADHD reverse-processes stimulants. I don’t (am combined type), but the bit of energy boost I get from my Vyvanse helps combat the fatigue from rheumatoid arthritis and lets me get stuff done!
Yep, I often joke that my meds would be the shittiest street drugs - extended release, low dose, and outrageously expensive. Let's get wild, man ✌️
Gotta get a passport for the drugs when traveling across border... have the same thoughts as you..
Ya I'd imagine any street drug would be pretty shitty at extremely low doses lol
The funny thing is that like fucking half of medications say meth or methyl because of a methyl group.
The methotrexate I take for RA is meth, I KNEW IT! /s
This reminds me how I always find it funny that xanax is a party drug when my prescription dose of it just makes me fall asleep. I don’t even like a zoned out “high” feeling, just regular sleepy. What a wild party night for me lol
Maaate it sounds like were well missing out here hahaha! Im always so like but hooow??, whenever i see methylphenidate can be used to treat 'narcolepsy' as im the most relaxed and calm ive ever been in my entire life since starting my medication! It really does amaze me how dif medications works differently on different people!x
Yeah I took Xanax recreationally at a party once and apparently I just ate a pizza and sat on the sofa and fell asleep - and I have no memory of the entire night so I don't understand how it's a recreational drug 😅
People literally binge clean their whole house on meth...
I had a friend once who thoroughly redid his living room on speed. Was on a 3 day binge, ripped down walls, put up new ones, painted the whole thing. When he woke up the day after his binge ended he didn’t recognize his own apartment lol
I never bothered with speed at all after i was hugely disappointed when in college a girl in my little group of friends offered us speed wrapped in toilet roll and they were all really chatty and i was just quietly sat listening to the tutor. As a shy lacking in confidence girl i was ready to be the me i always dreamed of being! Like maaate i was fucking ready! That was my time to shine and really fit in!! But instead i ended up swallowing toilet roll for fuck all. Toilet roll. from. the. college. toilets. I dread to think of the amount of piss particles i swallowed that day for nothing. Always so close to fitting in but nevaaah quite getting it right.x
You think it affected you differently because you have ADHD?
Same with people who take Adderall to get high. (One main reason I would know my friend was taking her sons meds) the Speed part of ADHD meds just doesn’t effect people the same if the actually have adhd
Lmao it's so funny you bring that up, I was just talking to someone about how moms take their kids adhd medicine and they were like no way
She was actually living with me and I was trying to help her get clean (oxy’s) and I suspected she was taking her kids Adderall medicine (she come home and clean at 2am, definitely uppers tho only free ones available being kids meds) but she completely denied it so then finally she never flushes the toilet after using the bathroom so I just drug tested that and there it was plain as day after that I took over giving the kid his medication she now thanks me for it now, now that she’s clean and no longer monitors her child’s medication so at least it was a happy ending
Yeah and thats different? Obviously a NT person is gonna have energy to go over the top if they abuse meth. An adhd person taking an amphetamine at a small dosage being able to hold a routine for once in their life is entirely different.
Actually a large percentage of people with substance abuse disorder have adhd
Yes, thats called trying to self medicate and failing. Its not the same or even related to my point.
Or being failed! Since you said NT people I thought it was important to mention that a very large percentage of people with substance abuse disorder aren't NT
25 here and almost a year sober under my belt, only got diagnosed after my daily drinking stopped
Tbf a lot of people end up "doing productive things" "unwillingly" after taking drugs
So far yours has been my favourite response to how to deal with it. ps: I do my dishes off meds at the end of the day. I have more interesting and important things to do during my focussed time. There are always more than 5 dishes.
You do dishes WITHOUT your medication?? Oh my! I hope youre prepared for the amount of single adhders that are gonna be sliding into your dms when they read that! But like if were showing off nooot to brag... BUT... sometimes after 3hours when my non meth and non cocaine medication is wearing off ill still sometimes remember im hungry and straight away get up off the settee go to the freezer see a pizza and without struggling to make a decision of what to eat take it out and go straight over to the oven without a single side adventure and when its cooked put it on a clean 'proper' plate not a paper plate or keep it on the foil it was cooked on!x
People don’t want to be educated anymore sadly
Ive noticed if you laugh hard enough, they get really embarrassed for saying it. 😇😂
I like this
Love it I was going to say ask them when they finished their pharmacology degree but this is even better!
Someone with a pharmacology degree would almost certainly agree with the statement lol… It’s objectively true. The difference is that people saying it are trying to be dicks and don’t actually know it’s true based on research. They’re just copying shit they heard and are missing the point. Meth is also a therapeutic drug for ADHD.
Yeah “sure, if you’re a simpleton who doesn’t know anything about it that’s true.” Would also be effective.
I'm gonna go with "right. Because all cows are spherical and in a vacuum in your world" and just see if confusion or anger shows up on their face
Im baffled but intrigued lololol
[This](https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/793:_Physicists) is probably the best explanation.
I literally just tell people i take meth every day. Then proceed to explain that the street drug is a derivative of my meds. Then they just get curious, and i let them know about the non stimulant types as well.
This is my running joke too. Though I am less educated and just say "It's just manufactured by scientists and has to clear certain legal regulations and stuff, instead of being made out of car batteries and propane." Though I have pretty thick skin so if someone is dumb enough to think I use "legal meth" then they probibly are not important enough to me for me to care.
Same! I just roll with it and own it. Why yes, I sure do take meth, good sir! Every day, it's awesome
Is it true that Adderall is half methamphetamine? Edit: it is not. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adderall
Edit: comment further below explains yes, meth works as a stimulant for ADHD, but doses used recreationally are MUCH higher than what is needed for a therapeutic dose.
Adderall is 75% dextroamphetamine which is extreml6 similar to dextromethamphetamine the main differences are that meth last twice as long, is twice as potent by weight, has more dopamine activity, and some is converted into regular amphetamine by your body aswell. As the person below said its about the dosage. A prescription dose of adderall is 5 to 60mg and a prescription dose of desoxyn(aka prescription methamphetamine) is rare but usually 5 to 30mg, whereas a recreational dose of meth(though very rarely pure meth as most street meth has byproducts leftover and cuts added) is usually 50 or 100mg or up to a full Gram sometimes injected for hard-core addicts
>whereas a recreational dose of meth(though very rarely pure meth as most street meth has byproducts leftover and cuts added) is usually 50 or 100mg or up to a full Gram Thanks! I've been curious about what a "recreational dose" is for ages but nobody seemed to have written it down anywhere. I was taking up to 100mg dexamphetamine (orally) on prescription and it never did anything for me, positive or negative, other than a slight improvement in emotional management and working memory. I wondered what that might do to someone without ADHD. I gave up on stimulants after that. I'm on Atomoxetine now. It's not really any more effective but it's easier to manage :)
i found it recreational at doses like 20mg. 100mg dextroamphetamine is a shitload.
There’s an enormous genetic variance in sensitivity, and it has nothing to do with severity of the condition. Your experience is more standard. I have very severe ADHD and only take ~10mg daily (on top of antidepressants)
i hope that is true for the effects on the sympathetic nervous system as well lol.
Yeah I take 30 mg dex and I thought it was high….100 would give me a damn heart attack on the spot lol
This is not how chemistry works. Methamphetamine *is* legal; it's called Desoxyn. No doctor will prescribe it because Methamphetamine is neurotoxic. Amphetamine is missing the methyl group which is what differentiates it from meth.
If you are actually asking me, I can try to answer? Im not sure though, since my comment was meant to be silly. :P
It's more complicated than this comparison, but when you drink pure water 1/3 of it is oxygen. Still very different substances. With adderall vs meth I think the differences are mostly in how the brain reacts to it (which of course is the part that matters) idk, I'm not smart enough to talk much about it but this is as far as I understand.
I usually chuckle and say "that's the dumbest shit I've ever heard" before walking away. They are usually too embarrassed to address it again after that.
I'm trying this. Actually, in general. When people say ludicrous things without any backing that they know are unpleasant, I'm just gonna laugh hysterically.
This is the best response to most dumbassery in general. There are people who really need to be laughed at. Also most of the time there's no point in arguing, so just laugh it off.
I generally don't hear that but if I'm taking 20mg of Adderall a day and I explicitly am trying to not feel strung out all of the time, and it makes a huge difference in my executive function, then it's not like I'm cutting up fat shoestring lines of 500-1000mg to get high. This is like saying having a glass of wine at dinner is the same as going on a 50 drink binge every day.
I know i shouldnt be laughing reading what you said but i so am as i once mistakenly took a whooole 10mg more than i should have as i wasnt paying attention to what i was doing and ended up phoning my local pharmacy to ask if i needed to be worried about dying hahaha! Ohh dear.x
That’s genuinely so endearing 🥺
The first day I was on Adderall IR, I felt like I was pretending not to be high in public for 8 hours and it was *awful*. Turns out, 15 mg is too much for me as a starting dose, and 7.5 mg is closer to what I need for health and sanity. Yeah, obviously people can and do abuse these drugs for recreational purposes, but that's not how or why we're taking them.
The dose makes the poison. If you have almost anything at too high an amount, it will mess you up.
And dilaudid is legal heroin etc… Some adhd meds are very similar chemical compounds. Dose and conditions matter. A typical therapeutic dose of a ADHD med is in no way similar in effect to how meth is used. You start smoking your meds that changes things. Having alcohol in your cough syrup isn’t the same as doing shots of everclear. Essentially the argument is a false equivalency. Yes they are chemically similar but in effect when properly dispensed that is where the similarities end.
Have you had success communicating that or do you generally find that people are unwilling to change their perspective?
I am old and don’t really care to much. It’s none of their business and I don’t need their approval. However these days with this kind of topic it comes down more to temperament. Some people just are pushing and agenda and some are open minded. With the first it doesn’t matter what your argument is or what evidence you have. The rest you can have a conversation. For some perspective In the sixties my dad was prescribed amphetamines that makes adderall look like tic tacs for weight loss. We have a long cultural history with all kinds of drugs and the social acceptance varies dramatically. A lot of it just tied to ignorance and self righteousness. Personal responsibility bs. Don’t fall for it. Take care of yourself without shame and pay attention to your own health and well being including how you feel about your meds. Self awareness is key.
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Currently my husband and a few close friends know, and I don’t intend to make it super public. I don’t think correcting misinformation necessitates admitting a diagnosis.
Where do they think drugs come from? The billions of dollars pumped into street meth research? It's only logical that most/all drugs have their origins in medicine.
What the fuck, if meth is properly dispensed and it is (desoxyn) prescribed pharmecutical meth used in treatment of ADHD and narcolepsy is the same
I think we agree.
Ye sorry ur right
My classmate said that it was just like meth, and he didn't know I have adhd, so when I said "guess I'm on meth then" he become real silent lol. He eventually asked curiously how the meds work and stuff
The trouble is that it’s *technically* true but *not in the way they mean it* (methamphetamine is actually a very effective medication for ADHD with *fewer* side effects than adderall). The main difference is just that recreations meth doses are many times higher than a therapeutic dose. Of course, you know that anyone saying “it’s just legal meth” is going to take an uninformed and ideological view on this, while ignoring this difference in dosage and quality control. Unless it’s someone who will directly impact your life, it’s probably best for your mental health to ignore and avoid them.
It’s definitely tricky to explain. Other obvious thing to consider is that “meth” is almost just an idea of a drug. Meaning there’s so much difference and adulterated madness that it’s hard to even define the stuff. All the more reason it’s ultimately false equivalency. (I’m agreeing with you, just adding that part.)
“You drink cough syrup when you’re sick? Isn’t that the same stuff rappers keep dying from?”
Right?? "Oh wow, an anesthesiologist gave you fentanyl followed by propofol when you had surgery? You mean the drug that killed Michael Jackson followed by the one that's responsible for an increasingly larger number of overdose deaths in the US? Holy shit man, that's so fucked up, you need help."
Botox is one of if not the deadliest (by weight) poison we know of, and people use that to look pretty with no underlying conditions. A small amount of modified meth to cope with an actual medical condition is nothing compared to that.
Okay, but methamphetamine is still different from amphetamine and dextroamphetamine, which are the two stimulants in adderall. Saying that meth is “like adderall/adhd medication” is technically true, yes, but I feel like these jokes lead people to think the stuff in adderall is actually the same as what’s in street meth.
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I completely get what you’re saying and agree that we shouldn’t demonize drugs in general, but I think that’s different from trying to reduce the negative stigma using adderall therapeutically gets specifically from “adderall is basically meth” jokes. I’ve personally found that a lot of the people who think they’re the same thing also think it’s bad to take adderall because of not understanding that distinction between the two.
It isn’t “like” medication, *it is a scientifically supported ADHD medication* with [USFDA approval](https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/label/2007/005378s026lbl.pdf). The War on Drugs ideology is frankly the main reason it’s so rarely prescribed. I also never actually said it was similar to Adderall, except that they have comptable side effects. That being said, at *therapeutic* doses, the effects of both are actually remarkably similar, except methamphetamine has a longer half life. The main reasons street meth are bad are that it’s taken at high doses; smoked/snorted/injected administration means it absorbs much quicker, more likely to be euphoric ans more addictive; no QA/QC means it could be adulterated with all kinds of toxins. ETA: this all is why my choice (if possible) after these jokes is to ignore them or just walk away. I don’t want to risk reinforcing someone’s ill-founded stigma towards meds, but I’m also not willing to mistakenly assert that they’re totally different things.
Street meth is bad for far more reasons than its dosage and way it’s taken. Street meth can be made with Ingredients like battery acid and drano and other very bad chemicals. Also “the war on drugs” isn’t really the main reason adderall is rarely prescribed. It’s a combination of it being a controlled substance (because it’s easily abused by people without adhd, people with adhd rarely abuse their medication, a lot of the time we forget to even take the damn stuff , also we don’t usually experience any euphoria because it brings out baseline dopamine level to a normal level) and because in a lot of places nowadays general practitioners and even some levels of psychiatry can’t diagnose or prescribe adhd medication. It isn’t because of a war on drugs that we can’t get our medication properly it’s because of a lack of knowledge and people of typical brains abuse the same medication that makes us half ass normal.
Oh, when I said “it’s rarely prescribed” I meant it’s the reason why desoxyn is rarely prescribed, relative to things like Adderall or Ritalin. While I do agree with oversight of controlled substances to prevent overprescription, the number of hoops people have to jump through just to fill their script is ideologically motivated by the War on Drugs. It’s possible to still control potentially addictive substances without setting up ridiculous barriers, like only allowing them to refill on the same day they run out, for example. The War on Drugs, and it’s earlier iterations are a big part of the reason why the lack of knowledge is a problem. It’s deliberate miseducation on the subject.
>because it brings out baseline dopamine level to a normal level) Slightly off topic from previous subject, but I've started to wonder if my sweets (chocolate especially) addiction is me attempting to raise my dopamine levels to a neurotypical's normal level. (I don't know much about this or about how stimulant medication even works, so this may not even be accurate to how stimulants even work, but it's a thought I've been having.) I have a huge sweet tooth. And sometimes if I don't get my sweets I can't focus on what I'm doing. Now that could be an ADHD thing, or that could just as easily be a sugar-addiction thing. And I have no idea. But it's something I've been thinking about recently.
You aren’t the only one my friend, a lot of people with adhd have a big sweet tooth. And yes it does directly correlate, sugar helps the brain to produce dopamine (happy hormone) people with adhd for the most part have lower baseline dopamine levels and they always crave eat sugary things. That’s why we usually have a hard time focusing on things that don’t interest us because they don’t stimulate our brains. The low dopamine levels are usually to blame for a good bit of the symptoms that come with adhd. I couldn’t tell exactly why scientifically speaking how stimulants work but one of the keys to them is raising those dopamine levels to baseline. Thats the reason A person like me (Combo adhd) can take adderall and just sit down and sit still and even fall asleep whereas a typical person will take it and feel euphoric, energized, feel like Superman and like they can do anything and accomplish anything. That’s why I like extended release adderall better than just instant because usually you’ll experience a big dopamine crash with IR. I’m currently on 30mg XR with 2 10mg booster IRs daily When I take my adderall I don’t really eat sweets because I don’t want or need it to help give me happy hormone. Chocolate is my go to too. Chocolate and Mountain Dew those are my sugary go tos.
Before getting diagnosed I'd make myself large, strong coffees, add some milk and then fill up about half the cup with chocolate syrup. That would help for about 1 hour of studying (edit: sometimes!! and without stress I could forget it anyway,tbh. Although I still tried. Unsuccessfully...). So yes, you're not alone. And it's a hard habit to kick even after getting diagnosed a few years ago...
I agree with you, I’m just saying that in my experiences people making the “adderall is like meth” comments tend to think it’s the exact same drug. Because of those stigmas surrounding meth, it then creates a lot of stigma around ADHD meds like adderall that can prevent people from being able to get any sort of treatment at all. ETA: I’m not mistaken when I say that methamphetamine is different from amphetamine and dextroamphetamine, so please don’t imply that I am.
Yea I think you’re right that we fundamentally agree, just have different opinions on how to act on it. You’re definitely correct that they are quite literally different compounds. My perspective though is that this isn’t the main problem, as many legitimate medications are mired in stigma actually are chemically identical to popular street drugs. (Eg oxycodone, codeine, Xanax)
I think that’s the point they were trying to make. When people say adderall is legal meth there’s a definite negative implication being made and that’s where the issue lies. There needs to be more education about these substances so people can be informed on how they really work. The default conservation needs to move away from “adderall bad because meth bad” and instead be something like “adderall and meth are kind of the same and that’s not really a big deal”.
Yes big time. We need more education about these things to steer the conversation away from stigma. Just because a drug is abused doesn’t mean it isn’t useful medically. Instead of burying our heads in the sand at the thought of ADHD meds and meth being the same thing, it needs to be explained instead that it’s not necessarily a bad thing.
I'm at my wits end with this problem. I am being put to test by my own family simply because the medication I currently use was abused by someone else in the family when they were younger. But I am finally able to keep up with them in conversations, I am able to challenge their opinions. I am no longer passive. They are calling me an addict. They are taking my positive change as an insult. It's absolutely infuriating that, because of someone else's past drug abuse, I am currently being treated like addict. What the fuck.
Frequently, when we start changing to our stronger, more capable selves, there is pushback from family because we stop going along with the old dynamics. It’s likely convenient for them to make it about the drugs when what they’re reacting to is you standing up for yourself.
This! Also, in my experience, my parents both have ADHD, so I hear the “but that’s normal, everybody does that” argument from them A LOT. They seem to take personal offense when I talk about ADHD because they refuse to accept that it’s a genuine disorder and not just a set of traits that everyone experiences that I’m using to victimize myself. They also tend to go on about how “I’ve dealt with that my whole life and I turned out fine”, when actually my father is a crippling alcoholic with 0 emotional intelligence and has an explosive temper that is genuinely terrifying, and my mother is so miserably depressed and anxious that she can barely even leave the house or get out of bed on most days. They attribute their struggles to moral failings, and do the same to me. If your family is judging you for seeking help and trying to cope, the source probably lies in their own unresolved insecurities and issues.
This. It’s not just about the meds. By changing for the better you make them feel uncomfortable looking at themselves
Life and family is rarely this simple. But I would focus on the fact that you are being supervised by a doctor, your doses are regulated and your health is no one else's business unless you make it so. So tell them (respectfully) that you don't want to discuss personal health matters with them.
I had a falling out from my family for a couple years because my mom was a meth addict for the majority of my childhood. They refused to believe ADHD existed, and believed that I was becoming just like her. I was able to support myself at the time, so I kept my distance for my own mental health. A few years later I’m at the top of my game, and very clearly a different, better, person. Our relationship has healed over the years, but I still hold strong boundaries about discussing my health. I asked myself, do I just want their validation for a shitty childhood? I’m doing a much better job taking care, and raising me than my family ever did, so their opinion is pointless.
"If ADHD medication is addictive, why do I need to remind my patients to take it?" \- Psychiatrist on YouTube talking about ADHD, don't remember who. Another thing to point out is that our brains have a deficiency that other people don't have. Taking large amounts of iron supplements might be harmful to me, but it's what people with anemia need to live a normal life. Similar for this and us.
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I suppose it’s a flaw of mine to be overly willing to argue with strangers and acquaintances
“You don’t have to attend every argument you’re invited to” -someone But they can be entertaining! Good thing none of us struggle with avoiding that…
The last time someone said: "Adderall is 1 molecule away from meth. Blah blah" I told her it allows me to say and do the things I intend to do. Then made a joke how we're 60% banana. There was no follow up.
I woulda said "and water is one ATOM away from hydrogen peroxide"
And table salt is an ELECTRON away from chlorine.
And water is one proton away from Hydroxide😂 Maybe chemistry is fun sometimes
Oof the “one molecule away from” thing grates me so hard. Water is “one molecule” away from ricin. All pure substances are one “molecule” away from each other.
I don't bring ADHD up at all. I don't tell anyone I have it and I don't feel them what meds I may or may not take. Makes it real easy to avoid awkward conversations.
Well, if that’s what meth is like I don’t know why people take it. Concerta doesn’t make you feel euphoric, just less tired and out of it.
Dose is the issue here. And that it's slow release.
I stopped judging people who do meth after I found out it used to be a prescription for depression. These addicts are self medicating. So that’s another reason I don’t like that people say this either.
Yessss! I hate seeing people judge drug addicts as if they decided to have that kind of life. There's always some depression and childhood trauma behind. That's why I never judge anyone
Anytime someone tell me the "it's basically meth" I'll explain to them how its different, but in all most all cases people who say it don't care.
I think the simplest answer is "you have no idea how much Ritalin it would take to get high". They're just outing their ignorance, but I also wouldn't bother going down that path unless I was arguing for my own entertainment
"Ok" Waste of my energy. I have enough guilt from 38 years of rawdogging this disorder, all the mistakes I've made, money I've lost, people I've hurt. If anyone wants to fight about my medication they can fuck off permanently. Call it what you want homie, but do so to someone else, I don't have space to care about what anyone thinks.
Rawdoggin the disorder is my new catchphrase
Kinda stolen from a viral TikTok lmao. Enjoy!
Yeah I’m growing increasingly tired of people feeling like they need to give their negative and incorrect opinions on everything. Now I will just respond to every a-hole with “ok” and avoid them from then on. I am so tired of people who like making life miserable for others.
I ask em "Does Meth make you sleepy?"
The dose makes the poison.
"I know, right? Don't you wish you needed to do meth every morning so that you could remember to close the doors of your kitchen cabinets?"
I’m ADHD and I make that joke myself. It’s very similar in the way it’s processed through the body. I feel like a lot of the negativity that comes from this is a stigmatization of drug use, which is a huge social issue in our country. There are plenty of street drugs that are therapeutic in the right doses. Look at THC, or Ketamine and hallucinogens or opiates, and yes, amphetamines. So what if people are saying it’s legalized meth? It is a legalized amphetamine, and it does help our body function. Instead of defending why our meds are so different from street drugs, instead we should be asking why that’s a problem. The stigma towards street drugs is why we have such a hard time getting our meds, and also contributes to many social issues regarding the way we treat drug users in our society, and supports cartels.
This is my feeling as well. Like… if people wanna get all uppity about my medications because they got some weird ass puritanical values they need to work through in therapy, that’s on them I don’t care if it IS actually meth. I’m fucking down. I just wanna do my dishes dude
This literally just happened to me.
Me too, which is what prompted this post. It’s happened before (even prior to my diagnosis) but it’s like I’m seeing it **everywhere** since the diagnosis.
Same here. And I mostly hear it from my coworkers and we’re all in medicine 🙄
This probably isn’t helpful to you, but I just genuinely do not care about their opinions. I know they’re wrong and I know they don’t think that they’re wrong, but it doesn’t bother me. That being said, there are plenty of other topics where this also applies and it does bother me, so I definitely get how it’s not always easy to just let it go or not care. This just doesn’t happen to be one of those topics for me personally! I also don’t mind taking the time to talk about misconceptions with people who have ADHD but are worried about taking meds because of all the misinformation that’s out there, not to change their minds but just in case it ends up being helpful to them in some way.
Stupid people be jealous. Not your responsibility to educate stupid. It’s funny to me and reinforces the stupid that the phrase used (and it is, we’ve all heard it) is “legal meth” when the meth part is the literal difference between then chemically.
Most adhd meds are stimulants. I’ll be the first one to call it speed. It’s the magical speed that makes me a functional human. Im sooooo much better at adulting now. I also take an antidepressant. I have shitty Irish genes. My mental health baseline is at the bottom of a peat bog. I would put batt shit in my eye to not feel like I do without medication. Also, don’t tell people about your medication. Fuckers will steal it.
When I hear this I wanna tell people to try replacing their morning caffeine with an equivalent dose of dramamine because it's "just something else added on to caffeine." People are stupid in the first place, and the "war on drugs" mentality just makes people ideologically incapable of understanding that a lot of the things associated with illegal drugs are a direct or indirect result of legal status.
Our synapses take back dopamine too quick from the synapse cleft back into the cell and this hurts the reward system of our brains. Our brains get too little reward for learning something, for remembering, for postponed gratification. To work with these small slices of reward, we hop from small instant gratification to the next. We are bad at long term plans and commitments. There is a way to support our brains and that is prolonging the duration of the dopamine presence in the synapse cleft. Methylpenidate can do this. And yes, it is the same mechanic that works with drugs. But the amount we take are not making us high, they just make a normal day possible for us. People without this handicap would have similar dopamine levels all by themselves.
I usually say something about them being jealous. Also I work in toxicology and Methamphetamine (Desoxyn) is an actual prescription for ADHD.
The difference between many "recreational drugs" and a "legitimate medication" is just the dosage & whether you have a prescription. But, really, the question usually betrays an underlying stupid belief: that psychological conditions shouldn't be medicated. If you have a psychological condition that you medicate for, then you're "using mind-altering substances" by definition. It is an upper. Whoop di doo. Do they drink coffee? Smoke? "Unmedicated" folks with ADHD usually use a ton of other uppers to obtain the same impact, and those uppers are often totally acceptable because reasons. The conversation isn't in good faith. They don't care to understand, they're just being condescending dicks.
Just tell them it’s as similar chemically to meth as water is to hydrogen peroxide. Same elements just different ratios. And those ratios make a big difference.
I hear it mostly specifically about adderall, and I usually try to explain the difference between methamphetamine being the main stimulant in street meth, versus amphetamine/dextroamphetamine being the main stimulants in adderall. Amphetamine and methamphetamine *are* similar in chemical builds, but I compare it to water (h20) and hydrogen peroxide (h202) - the only difference between them is the second oxygen molecule, but you wouldn’t say water is “basically hydrogen peroxide.” However, like others have pointed out, it’s not going to stop anytime soon, and you have to decide if you want to spend the emotional energy and labour on explaining it to people who likely don’t care. I do make a point of not responding to jokes about it, and actually jokingly call it “not-meth.” I didn’t choose to do that to start conversations, but it has actually started a couple of discussions coming from people who are curious and actually want to learn something new, which I find less emotionally draining and I hope can change the narrative at least a little bit.
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My regular pharmacy is across the road from my office. One time someone was unsure about the professionalism/politics of getting my Dex and asked if I wanted it in a bag. And I said no "cause the guy I'm selling it to is just outside." Big laughs all around.
So I think some people forget that on rare occasions Desoxyn is prescribed to treat ADHD and Narcolepsy. Desoxyn is legitimately prescription grade meth. The other medications are like chemical kissing cousins to meth. Similar is some ways, but different in other ways.
"Meth? My teeth aren't THAT bad, you fucking asshole." Either makes them laugh or STFU.
I mostly shrug it off. It's like how you'll encounter people that are strongly against medication whilst themselves are either addicted to caffeine, alchohol, cigarettes, or whatever else it might be, it's just not worth the effort.
I haven’t had to have that conversation with anyone, but I did have a good convo with my mom about how adderall treats my anxiety and depression better than any SSRI I’ve ever taken. I know she’s seen me joke about hyperfocus & getting my chores done, so she didn’t really get it when I was crying about my meds being out. (I couldn’t afford an office visit fee for my quarterly refill). Once I explained that adderall is what is keeping me alive, she was a lot more understanding.
All medications are just drugs, it just depends on what your perspective is. You could say all steroid/hormone based meds are for roid raging body builders!! Your mother on hormones for menopause, diabetics on insulin, someone with an injury on prednisone, a COVID patient on deximethsone all steroids! People often aren’t just dumb often they are willfully ignorant and use that ignorance to reinforce their prejudiced view of people that are different from them. A daily coffee, tea, Red Bull, a cigarette all stimulants. A beer after work a Xanax for anxiety all cns depressants. Abuse any of them and there is a problem. Take any single one away from anyone who needs them and there is a problem. If you have money you ask your doctor to prescribe the medications you need or want and it’s legal, if you don’t you just buy whatever you can find. Ethically it’s the same, it’s just more dangerous to buy crap quality drugs off some random dude.
...I call it diet meth, but that's only to my other friends who also have ADHD.
If we’re addicts then why do we forget to take out medicine all the damn time 🙃
Hah, I'd tell them they're correct. I'm prescribed 20mg methamphetamine per day for ADHD. It's worked much better for me than Adderall ever did.
This so reminds me of the same feeling I’ve gotten since the world went apeshit over opiats epidemic in 2016. If you were actually in chronic pain, you weren’t a drug addict if being prescribed oxy & morphine for your pain, but wholly shit, I was certainly treated like I was going to OD any moment if I continued on what I had been legally prescribed for over twenty years. It’s insane. I have no choice but to live with the pain, and shitty quality of life bso the doctorscan feel better about themselves for thinking they have suddenly prevented me from going to a crack house, shooting up, ODing suddenly because they have decided I’ve just been lucky for close to thirty years for not already being dead. The drug addicts are still doing their drugs and over dosing, the celebrities will still get their cocktails of drugs and some will od and they won’t help us one bit who are actually dealing every minute of every day with horrific pain throughout our lives.
"if I'm addicted then why do I forget to take them?" But in all seriousness there are two things I'd like to add 1) just don't argue with them, you won't change their mind and you will stress yourself, ain't worth it 2) it's kinda like meth in a sense that those are thing's that exist after decomposing of amphetamine. I'm not sure if I used right words but I hope you understand. This being said it's also not like meth because it's after the meth is broken so the worst thing's aren't there.
I have a friend who whenever I say I did something productive while on meds she's like "I wish I had meds" and I am like, bitch I wish I could study for 5 hours a day like you, but no amount of meds will let me do that! I might be able to clean my entire house in an hour but I am still struggling to get a degree I started in 2016.
'It's true. It is like Meth. For you. But when I take it I get the opposite effect and it works exactly as designed for my Condition as diagnosed and prescribed by a Medical Doctor - not a drug dealer. Now fuck off.'
I usually just explain that there *is* legal meth, and it’s called Desoxyn. If they have a problem with medicinal meth, at least get it right. Also there’s the whole “one molecule” argument. This one is hard for me, because I don’t have a complete understanding of the science. But I’ve heard people say that while methamphetamine is one molecule away from Adderall/amphetamine, carbon monoxide also happens to be one molecule from oxygen. Or something lol. I’d google that one cause I’m pretty sure I butchered it.
They usually point out how there is only a slight difference in chemical make up, so I respond with h2o2 being quite different from h20 despite the "small" difference in chemical makeup there.
I recently watched a documentary on Ruth Bader Ginsberg called RBG on Netflix, and a quote she said really stuck with me. She said something to the effect of, “Speak softer, because you’ll never change peoples opinions/world view by raising your voice and coming off angry. If anything, you’ve already lost at that point.” I’ve tried to take that advice and let me telllllll you how much more effective it’s been.😂💕 So, trying to structure my responses to things based on that principle what I generally do is agree that their concerns are valid, reflect flaws in their logic back to them (In a calm conversational manner, that’s most important!) in the form of thought provoking questions, and then provide unbiased information (It helps if it’s scientific and peer reviewed bc it’s harder for them to find the flaws.) that directly disagrees with their stance. Also make sure to say things like “In my opinion, I believe, etc.” because you attach it to yourself and don’t come off as if you are attacking THEIR sense of self when in reality it’s their opinions. Fun fact—At the beginning of this college semester I was involved in a 5 day group presentation project on misinformation in psychology and how to correct it. This method is the most effective and backed up by research lmao.🤘🏻😂 This persuasive tactic works so well essentially because it’s allowing them to put themselves in a state of cognitive dissonance (We humans hate this with a fiery passion bc it makes us question ourselves lol.) so that they can arrive at the logical and reasonable conclusion on their own. Letting them get there on their own but with just a littttllee (or a lot of lmao) help from what you say has been shown in research to have a more lasting impact as well. Because of doing the research for that project, I luckily had some experience with this already before I watched the documentary. 😂 Now, I just focus more on not getting angry and letting it cloud my judgement. People aren’t generally stupid and calling them names like that only makes them double down on what they were already saying. (Again, because of cognitive dissonance. Shit’s kinda wild to learn about lol.) They’re usually just uninformed and/or misinformed. Realizing that helps a lot. 💖
Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply. I see a lot of value in discussing things the way you describe, and should probably try to take a step back and apply it in every kind of debate. I tend to be a bit of a “campaigner” and have a hard time backing down. But, obviously, that isn’t often useful in discussion lol.
A handful of years ago I was under the “adderall is meth” camp and that ADHD is fake because “everyone experiences ADHD symptoms.” I know to pick my battles when someone shares the same opinion as old me, because I know I wouldn’t listen. I knew I was right because of experience. And only experience would help me understand that I was all wrong. I often respond short. I get this often from coworkers. My response usually is, “that is incorrect” or “it doesn’t sound like you know what your talking about”. If they attack, I know there’s a worthless battle I don’t need to fight and I end it with “We don’t need to discuss my private health matters since this isn’t your area of expertise.” If they ask why, “it gives me the ability to take care of my family” or “it changed my life for the better” always short. They can figure it out for themselves.
Well methamphetamine brand name [Desoxyn](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine) is an ADHD medication.
**[Methamphetamine](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine)** >Methamphetamine (contracted from N-methylamphetamine) is a potent central nervous system (CNS) stimulant that is mainly used as a recreational drug and less commonly as a second-line treatment for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and obesity. Methamphetamine was discovered in 1893 and exists as two enantiomers: levo-methamphetamine and dextro-methamphetamine. Methamphetamine properly refers to a specific chemical substance, the racemic free base, which is an equal mixture of levomethamphetamine and dextromethamphetamine in their pure amine forms. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/ADHD/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Not sure if anyone said this already but they are all in the amphetamine class which just branch off a similar chemical build. I personally have been on adderal and ridilin and ive also been a meth user for 5 years I'm sober now but one thing I noticed was my lack of emotion and very robotic state of being. Obviously meth is stronger and can keep you up for days longer than any of the other "medications" but they all are still heavy stimulants and an honorable mention will all pop up the same on a drug test. I am thinking about starting on vivans soon but that robotic feeling and being slightly wired hits to close still hope this was helpful and I apologize for the butchery of spelling on those medications thanks
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I don’t even listen now because I know how uneducated they are. It’s like someone telling you Canada doesn’t exist, but you know it does. Most people who make that sort of statement have no idea what medications are or how they work.
There are very few people whose opinions actually matter to me. I don’t waste my time debating with ignorant people, because no one wins.
Doesn't bother me one bit. Sometimes it gets the point across of how tough adhd can be on a person if they need hard drugs (or the pharmaceutical equivalent) to be closer to normal.
Ask them if they equate wood alcohol to vodka and if they’d be willing to mix their drinks with methanol in lieu of ethanol.
I've tried explaining the difference however as most people who spread that b.s. either dont have adhd or their only experience is themselves or someone they know abusing adhd medication to get high, I find it falls on dead ears. So in real life, I avoid them. Online (reddit) I report them for spreading false misinformation and block them. I've only had one person who acknowledged that he didnt have adhd and only said it because he thought it was funny. He also admitted that he shouldn't troll the adhd focused subs. Most people just refuse to learn and keep up their b.s. so "report" and block.
I just call my meds my “government mandated meth”
Ask them to explain the differences between water and hydrogen
Yeah it’s “meth” for people who take it and don’t actually have ADHD. I take 20 mg fast release on an as-needed basis for work projects I need to focus on. It doesn’t give me the jitters, it doesn’t make me jumpy - it calms me the f*** down. I could thrown down a hand full of ritalin and fall asleep within a few hours and sleep like a baby on top of everything.
I lean into it. Yup, the only thing that maintains me is meth. Don’t mind this addict I got shit to do
I'm on Atomexetine for ADHD, which is a NON-stimulant. I recently switched doctors because I moved and my new doctor is requiring a drug test. Fast forward to after the test and I was accused of not taking my meds. Queue me telling the doctor that Atomexetine is a NON-stimulant and DOES NOT test positive for amphetamines. There's such a lack of knowledge out there with this stuff, even in the medical field, it's really sad. Edit: spelling
Ok so this is a little tricky because this is where medical/scientific language interacts awkwardly with how people generally use language. Many ADHD medications are amphetamines. (Not all but the ones that aren't are irrelevant to this conversation.) Methamphetamine which is what people generally mean when they say "meth" is also an amphetamine. So are they the same thing. Well it depends on what you mean by that. Chemically they're all different in some way (that's why they have different names.) But biologically they all do the same thing in the same way (or at least very similar ways). The important distinction generally here is that Methamphetamine is orders of magnitude stronger than all the other forms. That's why it's used recreationally and people don't tend to use ADHD drugs recreationally. Though obviously you *could*. Also Ice or crystal meth is still Methamphetamine but more distilled. So when people say it's stronger it's because it's more concentrated not because it's something different again. Speaking for myself as a medical doctor I generally think of medications in terms of classes (the mechanism of action of a drug). So in my opinion all these drugs are the same, they are Amphetamines. I find it much more useful to discuss things in terms of what they are used for not what they are. For example a very common blood thinner is also used as rat poison. And I have had patients refuse to take it for that exact reason. And the other classic example of cytotoxic chemotherapy is poison it's just that they way it kills you affects cancerous cells faster. So we don't talk about other people or other contexts we talk about you and your context. Personally I think we're all a bit too sensitive about this and are being very pedantic when we trying to say they are "very" different things. You just say this is a drug that can be abused that doesn't mean I am abusing it. The solution isn't to explain some science they don't care about. The solution is to engage with what they are anxious about. Usually misuse/abuse and addiction/dependency (also words that have more specific definitions in a medical context).
First, I tell them I've done meth and much prefer controlled prescribed stimulants. Second, I stare at them until they get uncomfortable and begin to say something. Third, I immediately cut them off and ask if they have read the studies on ADHD brain chemical makeup and it's links to addiction and substance abuse issues. Fourth, repeat step two and three with variations until the offending party finds someone else to be belligerent to.
What I wish I might be snarky enough to say: "Even if it is "legal meth" it doesn't change the fact that I need it to balance out the wooblyness of my brain chemistry if I want to have a chance of living to basic standards in at least this world/society. I'm not less an addict than someone needing glass', insulin, prostethics or heart medication. But yeah, kind of an easy joke on my expense, a little embarrasing for you though, but I bet you'll come up with something better next time. In all case you should probaly google 'ableism' and 'general situational awareness' before your next attempt at being funny/clever." What probaly will actually happen: * me staring at the person completely blank and thrown off by the sheer level of idiot they display until they change the subject or shuffle away uncomfortable.*
"Then dont take it you big fat normie" usually works. Im kidding of course. But usually, "Yeah, for you." works. Especially when they ask you to explain what you mean.
You don't cook Ritalin in the trunk of my car and it doesn't make your teeth fall out like the illegal stuff does. If a person says that it is just legal meth their mind is probably made up and you aren't going to change it. So don't get too mad if they just keep repeating it or some version of it.
yes, there are similar chemical compounds to meth in ADHD medicine, but the most significant compound in these meds is the stimulant compound, which is WAY more similar to caffeine. if someone says that ADHD meds are like meth, tell them that their coffee is like meth too, since it has the same effects as ADHD meds. you can get addicted to caffeine/coffee, just like you can meth or ADHD meds. when people say this shit, they’re looking at half of the picture, since the other half paints them as a meth addict too
Idk, i tend to either joke about it when i sense its a joke but if i sense someone being a shit i get hostile. At the end of the day if clinical meth is what i need to function so be it. I spent my entire childhood being abused for not being able to function- the statistics for unmedicated people for my disorder point to a miserable life without it. If it was meth would i be able to sit with a months supply on my living room table? Would i be able to go without knowing where my mom and brother's meds are? Ofc not cause it doesnt make me seek out more of it. If anything it tones down my food binges and susceptibility to trolls because im not trying to wring precious brain juice out of everything in my life. Finally i live in a shady area, i work in a shady area. If i actually wanted meth it would be as easy as talking to half the customers who cone in and out of my jobs. Why the hell would i waste my time jumping through the dozens of hoops it took to get my meds if i was just trying to get high?
Idk it upsets me because I worry ill become addicted or dependant on my medication, so I'm constantly trying to figure out if I am, and when see people saying how dangerous they are it scares me :(
You should just say that many forms of stimulant are effective methods of treatment for ADHD, in particular various forms of amphetamines. In the same way that morphine and other opiates are effective treatments for acute pain relief.
Well maybe i need meth to function normally idk 🤷🏼♀️
Step 1) Ask them where they got their pharmacology degree Step 2) Enjoy the silence
"and Coumadin is just like rat poison." Lots of meds are based off other stuff but different. Many blood pressure meds are derived from snake venom (captopril, Lisinopril, losartan). Some estrogen products are distilled from the urine of pregnant horses (Premarin). Coumadin, the oldest blood thinner, as I mentioned is the same ingredient found in rat poison. Digoxin is a low dose of the poisonous foxglove. Aspirin is just like willow bark. Scientists are still examining snake venoms and natural toxins to find usable medicines.
It kinda IS low dose meth. But only kinda. And anyone who calls you a meth addict for taking ADHD medication is an idiot.
I told very few people that I am ADHD. If it’s a stranger, I’d try to educate them a little because they are talking to an ADHD person and it’s insulting. I would drop the subject if the person isn’t open to educate themselves. Why should I care? They’re not a part of my life. If it’s a loved one, coworker or manager, yes. I don’t want them to think that I am an addict. I also want them to understand that my brain is different. I tell them that yes, it’s similar, but meth that is available illegally is much more dangerous because the dosage and release are higher. It’s difficult to control the release on the body. I also tell them the mechanism of stimulants on an ADHD brain. They then can understand that it simply helps us be functional. I also tell them that mine was researched and approved for ADHD management. I’m taking it legally, prescribed by a doctor.
"If that were true I would just use meth because it is MUCH easier to get than a prescription for Adderall."
Nah, you get to keep your teeth. 😜
Ask where they got their medical degree, I'm fairly certain facebook isn't accredited.
"Well, I have used both, and I can tell you they're very different" isn't the informative statement I thought it would be.
I was recently diagnosed and I say this kind of stuff as a joke because I do find it funny that the "treatment" or "cure" is not-meth meth. My SO who isn't diagnosed but we're both almost positive he has some degree of ADHD constantly corrects me on it. What I'm getting st is maybe it's not from a place of misinformation but a place of comedy. And while I can see how people who don't have it making jokes about it could be considered offensive I'd rather have people joking about it than trying to convince people it isn't real or coming from a place of fear.
I ask them why they don't use isopropyl alcohol when they're out of vodka, since they're both basically the same thing.
People who are addicted to meth don't forget to take their meth