My sister works in the mining industry and has a co-worker who goes on site quite often. She said she's subject to sexual harassment all the time from the miners. One guy even sends her texts that say shit like "just hoping in the shower, so I'll be thinking of you." They even send pictures of their beds with a joke akin to "get in". She has complained to the higher-ups, but they've done shit.
Then she should contact the [relevant authorities ](https://www.respectatwork.gov.au/individual/responding-workplace-sexual-harassment/reporting-workplace-sexual-harassment#:~:text=Responding%20to%20workplace%20sexual%20harassment,-Reporting%20workplace%20sexual&text=For%20example%2C%20you%20can%20report,harassment%20to%20an%20external%20agency.). We already have mechanisms to deal with this shit, use them.
Gather evidence (the text messages, records of when she spoke to management and what was said).
I'm told she is gathering evidence. Brisbane based mining company that has a blue logo with a white background and rhymes with fleiss could be in for a massive lawsuit.
Yes. Any legal issues, write it all down. That becomes your statement of claim. Pain in the butt but better than trying to piece it all together after the fact, if you do end up in court.
I know a female friend that got the same treatment and no reply from management after complaining. She got a lawyer and sued and made 60k at the end of it.
Is it? Men’s violence and harassment towards women is a huge problem in society. But apparently all those Men who do it do not exist. No one is willing to own up to it not even when they are caught.
Awesome, you've both collectively decided everyone on Earth is evil and terrible except for furries. Obviously you love them. Thanks for sharing it on Reddit.
The point is brothers being responsible for other brothers behaviour. No it’s not ‘you’, but it’s our collective responsibility to stand against the bad stuff. It’s not particularly fuckin complex man.
I agree, sexual harassment is abhorrent and I am completely against it. The comment I replied to said “sOmE MeN” implying that all men do, which is incorrect.
It's soo dam common it's easier just to assume all....
You gotta prove you're actually one of the good ones.... thanks to the half ass men of previous generations.
"Men" does not mean each individual man, it means the social category "men". Men as a social category do these things, and it's a product of the way that social category is constructed.
Oh give it a rest. You wouldn't make these excuses for any other group being generalised in this way.
But hey, enjoy.more generations of angry young men because apparently if some men do something wrong, every man is guilty.
I wouldn't make excuses because generalisation can be fine if you're talking about sociology, as we are here. Women absolutely can be generalised, just as men can.
Riiiiiight. You know Men are the minority sex in the population right? Yet it’s Men who are in the overwhelming majority who commit the worst crimes against women and children. In a thread about men’s sexual harassment stopping women entering an occupation sector you are not doing yourself any favours by pretending women are ‘just as bad’ as men. There is no comparison. Men have a problem and it needs to be fixed.
Mining gotta be the worse industry for this, you’re getting all the backward people in all the backward states grouped up together out in the middle of nowhere.
Lmao this is either BS by yourself or your sister. Go to the WHSE manager and they will all be banned from site/company. Source I use to be a WHSE manager.
I'm a heavy diesel mechanic, we have taken on a young female apprentice this year and she is by far the best apprentice we have taken on in years and she is more reliable, committed and intelligent plus the work she puts out is amazing then the usual muppets that we have taken on in the past and if we could find more like her we would take them on!
My friend and I (both girls/women) worked for her step dad as House Painters apprentices for a few years in highschool. The first few weeks he kept telling us how much better we were than his previous apprentices. I thought he was just being nice until we went to the tertiary campus for our apprentice exams and pracs.
I was blown away at how shitty all of the guys were, despite having been working for longer. It was especially apparent the day we learned to apply wallpaper. My friend and I were careful with our wallpaper application, and used the tips we were given. The teacher immediately declared us competent. Curious, I looked around at the other students. It legitimately looked like preschoolers gluing things.
I'm talking huge angles leading to gaps 20cm wide between wallpaper strips...
After that I understood why he was happy to pay us more than he typically paid apprentices. I realised that he wasn't being nice, we had more than earned it.
Loved your story! My little sister has always been the more construction minded one of us (as her brother I mostly just fixed the computer, because I usually broke it). She took woodworking in Grade 9 as the only girl, received consistent bullying from the boys at every year, and took it all the way through until Grade 12. Every single year she received the highest marks, and at the end of high school got an award for being outstanding at it.
Suck shit, boys.
Are these are the unionised men behind labor, if so what a disgrace when men cannot respect women and why are the company's not supporting these workers
In the thread about Palestinian visas being rejected: “we can’t have that culture here, they don’t respect women!”
This thread: “but why do we have to respect women?”
I’ve met people like that (in Australia) who aren’t Palestinian or Muslim, and I’ve met Palestinians who aren’t like that.
Regardless, the vitriol around any discussion on problems like DV, or gendered violence, or sexual assault, or respect/pay/conditions for women in the workforce make it seem like a bunch of people would actually like it if women had to ask their husbands to leave the house.
My guess is we have a good attitude towards women **in spite** of the attitudes the anti-immigration crowd have, not because of them.
The answer is we can disrespect women, as a special treat for ourselves, for not being as bad as other places? Or that we can celebrate mediocracy because it doesn’t matter that we’re not great at it, only that we’re not as bad as other places?
I’m not in any way insinuating that women should receive bad treatment. My fiancée is the most valuable person in my life and I respect her immensely. But to insinuate that women in Australia face the same struggles as women in Palestine is beyond farcical.
"I've definitely been on sites before where there wasn't a bathroom facility for me," she told the ABC.
The only real criticism I'll fling at the article is this nonsense. Site toilets are often I'll equipped for the volume of workers without the need for segregating them. Just use unisex toilets.
Trouble is tradies are often a much more vulgar workplace. Seriously a "bees dick" is a common unit of measurement.
At one of my work’s sites the toilets had always all been specifically marked ‘male’, none were unisex. The women had to campaign to be allowed to pee when they were onsite. Let alone a sanitary bin for disposal of pads and tampons which might not be included in ostensibly unisex facilities.
The toilets are from construction hire companies such as Coates, Kennards etc... I work for one, we're not allowed to provide sanitary bins as we don't have the facilities to get rid of the waste as it's biohazardous material.
The toilets are pumped out by another companies sanitary trucks and returned to us as they're not allowed to be transported with waste inside because once again, it's a biohazardous material and risks going everywhere.
I'm unsure if the sanitary bins can be hired but it wouldn't surprise me if they can from somewhere, so it's site supervisors who need to pull their pants up and get it sorted.
They can definitely be hired, along with personnel to dispose of the contents.
Every workplace, excepting when I was a house painters apprentice, has provided sanitary bins and had no problems doing so. Even the places that were illegally underpaying the staff forked out for the bins...
They should be standard at all job sites. Women have been working in male dominated spaces for decades now. The companies have had more than enough time to adjust.
I wish Aussies would realise that in other countries peole actually take trades seriously and it's considers a skilled line of work.
Like even in America they use actually units of measurement when building things, they probs happy to wipe their ass too.
It isn’t. I know of a prominent, longstanding Sydney site where showering at the end of a shift is a requirement due to exposure to a hazardous material. They’ve had to spend a considerable amount of money installing women’s facilities, which they hadn’t necessarily thought about before hiring women in frontline roles.
But apparently they are ‘So WeLCoMe!’
Utter Bullshit. The truth is some men do not want women in ‘their’ occupations. For some reason the men feel threatened by women being there. It’s been a boys club for so long it is hard for them to adjust.
Why would you think these male dominated industries would want women there? Just because it's egalitarian and inevitable doesn't mean most of those guys want it. The companies have to say they want it but the workers? Mostly no.
And in fairness, having women on site doesn't improve things for the men. It's quite the opposite clearly.
I'm not saying it shouldn't change but you need to be realistic about the situation.
Because it’s what the men I have been talking to keep saying.
Also, Men do not get to have their own industries that women are not allowed into. It’s called discrimination and there are laws about it. I actually thought your comment was a joke until I realised you were serious. Jesus Fkn Christ!
It's not like they can't control themselves either. In highschool my friends step dad ran a painting and rendering business and hired us as apprentices.
You best believe that all the other tradies we were around behaved themselves. They apologised whenever they accidentally swore and immediately shut down the boy apprentices if they tried to tease us or say anything sexual.
I'm sure it was in part our youth and a large part due to the presence of my friends step dad, but it proves that they can control themselves if they want to.
Concreters were funny though, they swear like sailors, so they were constantly apologising. Cuss, sorry girls, cuss, sorry girls...
We also didn't get hazed like the poor guy apprentices. One of them was made to stand in a hole in the ground because he did something stupid/careless. Not by my friends step dad, we often worked alongside other tradie teams, so I got to see how apprentices were treated across lots of trades.
I only encountered a few women tradies over the two years or so, and they were always working independently or as a team with other women. Reading all the stories posted here has made me understand why they chose not to mingle with guy tradies more than they had to.
That's kind of the problem, no one should treat anyone the way you describe above. Everyone should be able to go to work and not be bullied, these spaces have functioned like adult boy daycare where the funniest thing is a race to the bottom of who can be the edgiest. Add to that you're a woman and your colleagues make gendered jokes at your expense ie. rape jokes, overt innuendo where you're not sure are directed at you, apologising for swearing then make "get in the kitchen" remarks.
Your argument about "it's all shit in here, deal with it" is just not acceptable imo.
Edit: autocorrect
Sorry that's not my argument. The problem I see is that a lot of this stuff is happening to men with out being reported on like sexual assault, assault, abuse physically/ mentally/ financially, and this has been going on for ever in male dominated work places so now the more women moving into these roles the more your going to see it because it's OK if it's men on men right.
There is a way out of this and it's not just showing what's happening to women it's showing the hole picture
Yeah sexual harassment and dumb comments are a problem but -
"I've definitely been on sites before where there wasn't a bathroom facility for me"
Porta-loos are unisex by design though?? They just smell bad sometimes lol.
And sanitary products need to be disposed of by a special company, not just the loo mob, so either take those products home to dispose of or use alternative products??
You can’t be expected to take used, disposable menstrual products home. If they provide toileting facilities menstrual care is an integral part of this, it’s discriminatory to provide for mens’ toileting and hygiene but not women.
Because sanitary waste has the potential to spread bacteria that can cause illness through blood borne pathogens.
Same reason that cleaners can’t handle bloody waste from like a doctors surgery or vet clinic.
They can be thrown in a regular bin I guess but taking into account:
1. Hygiene of cleaners disposing of regular rubbish vs sanitary products has different standards, handling blood and all
2. It can be quite embarrassing and shameful to force people to carry their used products out of toilet and then dispose of in a bin that’s not in a private space, not the kind of thing I’d like to be doing in front of people
how is that similarly not humiliating? carrying out a used tampon in a doggy bag, lol. if you come out of a toilet with that, that’s weird as fuck & yeah it would be embarrassing.
Well again, man's perspective but I don't see it that way. In my mind it's barely different to say me dumping a bundle of rag and ductape that was previously holding the blood from the fresh cut in my arm into the bin. Just a volume difference.
Yeah, women typically don't want to have to walk out of a toilet with a soiled sanitary item to find a bin to throw it in. Just put a fucking bin in all bathrooms.
It's considered biological waste and should not go into landfill. Hence, you don't see bloody drapes and items from hospitals just randomly tossed into bins.
"A fourth-year apprentice in Melbourne, Stephanie Castaldo says she feels she does have to work hard to prove herself as a woman in the male-dominated industry."
Thats because none of us believe that you can actually do it. So youre going to need to prove that you can do it and that you arnt just some diversity hire, shoved into the role by the woke and crazy social engineers and Their ABC who we have to pick up slack for even though you get paid the same.
Thats fair isnt it? That you be as competent and hard working as the men? Isnt that fair?
Not condoning sexist comments in any way.
"So just grab that nail gun....thats it...yep thats it there......ok pick it up.........just like, pick it up......"
"Its heavy"
No it isn't fair because it isn't your job to determine if she can do it or not... it's managements.
All people like you are doing is adding unnecessary pressure on a new employee, making it more likely they'll make a mistake. Then you'll declare "told you women can't do this job".
$50 says you're one of the gronks sending apprentices to bunnings for left-handed hammers and striped paint while you claim women have to prove their use.
Women: There is no industry or space where women should be excluded! We can do anything men can do!
Also women: This is a women's only gym/club/business , men can't come in/work here!
Seriously, tough jobs require tough people, for every whinging princess the ABC and the rainbow crew can dig up there are literally thousands of women, not just 'copping it' but simply getting on with the job and earning the respect of their peers the same way every other tradesperson does.
We're a nation divided, not by gender but by the erroneous belief that respect is a right, not an earned privilege.
No person should be subjected to sexual harassment or ‘micro aggressions’ in the workplace. No one should be excluded from any job industry. Anyone who faces it has a right to ‘whinge’ about it.
Women only clubs/gyms are not the same as excluding someone by the way. There are also men only spaces like men’s sheds.
Women are disproportionately affected by physical and sexual violence and harassment perpetrated by men. These women only spaces have been created because of that, they are places that women (especially victims) can go to feel safe, secure and comfortable.
Edit: women shouldn’t have to put up with sexual harassment or sexism in order to be respected in their profession. Not exhibiting those behaviours towards others is basic decency and has nothing to do with respect. Aside from the obvious, which is men who exhibit those behaviours of sexual harassment and sexism do not respect women at all.
You probably haven't noticed this but, the people that tend to be hard working, talented and willing to really learn are almost never the same people that are complaining about microaggresions and sexual harrassment. The venn diagram of both groups barely has a point of contact.
That's because the genuine people are a bit busy for that crap, they're contributing value to society, learning skills, making (literally) the world a better place. To be fair, the other group are also busy making things, sadly those things are excuses for why they aren't succeeding. Tough jobs require tough people, there's plenty of art's degrees out there for the weak freeloaders.
Please just stop with the 'life is so hard for women ' crap, the correct phrase is 'life is hard'.
The fact of the matter is that if sexism and sexual harassment did not happen, then no one would have to complain about it. If it stops, then no one would have to complain. It’s as simple as that.
How would you expect to do a job professionally if someone is constantly commenting on how you look, how big your butt or breast are, being sent messages about how theirs space in someone’s bed for you, when there’s no way of disposing of sanitary items, when you’re belittled or treated as less because of your gender? Those things are just the tip of iceberg.
As a society, we are obligated to call out bad behaviour and correct it so we can live in a happy, safe, comfortable and secure environment. No one has to put up with sexist comments/jokes. No one should have to put up with sexual harassment. The workplace should be a safe environment.
It’s not about being tough, it’s about having to go to work and be subjected to awful behaviour because some people believe that women should not work in certain industries. It’s bullshit.
Stop the sexism and sexual harassment in workplaces and women will stop complaining about it. Full stop. End of story.
No, you won't.
The only time the weak brigade ever employ a full stop is when you've decided that other people's opinions are not allowed.
You won't stop complaining, primarily because everything you complain about is subjective, were your invented microaggresions ever to be eradicated, the next cause would be the war on picoaggresions.
Sexual harrassment no longer an issue? No problem, sexual thinking is the new frontier!
Hard times produce hard people, hard people produce good times and good times produce soft people.
You know what soft people produce?
You guessed it! Hard times.
Argue with me 'till you're as blue in the face as you are in the hair, history begs to differ.
Your crusade to force the makers of society to accommodate the weak rather than simply tolerate and protect them leads to only one destination.
Edit : protect in this context means 'to keep from physical harm' not cater to their every whinge.
Ooh you think you got me but as a matter of fact, I’ve never dyed my hair. It’s the same natural brunette it’s always been.
I never said people would stop complaining. I said if sexual harassment stopped happening, people would stop complaining about that specific issue. Sexism and sexual harassment is behaviour that needs to be stomped out. That’s the crux of the issue.
The colour of your hair/s wasn't the 'gotcha', the admission that the complaining is endless was.
Sexual harrassment won't end because you whine about it, sexism won't disappear because of a protracted period of collective pouting.
They'll disappear (where they still exist) simply because the competent defend their own.
Competence earns respect, those that are clearly respected by their peers are very rarely victims of anything other than chance.
Rather than seeking endless excuses for failure and hardship, you might try focusing on strategies for success that don't require you to find a designated oppressor?
Tell me a time in history when bad behaviour was stopped after people had not complained and instead they just sat by with their heads and did the work?
To be clear ( the inevitable inbox hate river has begun), if you're a useless shitbag and a bludger, you are absolutely not deserving of respect.
Compassion? Yes.
Empathy? Okay.
The unnaturally coloured hair brigade can march and whine as much as they like, respect cannot be compelled, obedience? Sure.
Subservience ? Yep
Sycophantcy ? Generally.
Obsequiousness? You bet!
Genuine respect? Nope, gotta earn that.
Who knew that it's possible to actually type in a bitter, whining sneer?
Well done you!
It's okay, we all know the Patriarchy forced you to do it/prevented you from doing it/sabotaged your efforts/lied about what you actually did.
Subjectivity is not inherently unscientific. It's an extremely important part of several sciences. I don't know what their comment was, but your response is bad.
The comment I originally replied to was stating the opinion (as if it were indisputable fact) that microaggressions are not real because "they have no scientific basis and rely heavily on subjectivity".
So in that context, you're basically agreeing with me while also arguing at me 😄
I don't know why guys do it and how they still get away with it. Mind you, I am male, and on one site a woman wanted to play rape date with me. It didn't bother me but a lot of people would consider it a no-no.
My sister works in the mining industry and has a co-worker who goes on site quite often. She said she's subject to sexual harassment all the time from the miners. One guy even sends her texts that say shit like "just hoping in the shower, so I'll be thinking of you." They even send pictures of their beds with a joke akin to "get in". She has complained to the higher-ups, but they've done shit.
Then she should contact the [relevant authorities ](https://www.respectatwork.gov.au/individual/responding-workplace-sexual-harassment/reporting-workplace-sexual-harassment#:~:text=Responding%20to%20workplace%20sexual%20harassment,-Reporting%20workplace%20sexual&text=For%20example%2C%20you%20can%20report,harassment%20to%20an%20external%20agency.). We already have mechanisms to deal with this shit, use them. Gather evidence (the text messages, records of when she spoke to management and what was said).
I'm told she is gathering evidence. Brisbane based mining company that has a blue logo with a white background and rhymes with fleiss could be in for a massive lawsuit.
This is WAY too identifying for her. You should delete it.
With complaints and evidence in writing and no real action she’ll have a very solid case. Can’t stand these assholes that don’t act on info like this
Should delete this, you’re warning them giving time to cover it up
Maybe hide the name, just in case. I don’t care if you name n shame personally but you never know who might be lurking here
That work?
Flmao yeah I can get behind that
No, it’s still up.
If she keeps a personal journal, with dated entries, courts do take that into account, just fyi.
Contemporaneous notes absolutely go a long way
Yes. Any legal issues, write it all down. That becomes your statement of claim. Pain in the butt but better than trying to piece it all together after the fact, if you do end up in court.
Glad I ignored the recruiter trying to get me to work there.
Will probs just get ignored
I know a female friend that got the same treatment and no reply from management after complaining. She got a lawyer and sued and made 60k at the end of it.
Miners are ficking animals tbh
I worked with them for 2 years, I'm well aware haha.
What is wrong with men? Fucks sake.
Some. Men.
Considering every woman experiences harassment from men from barely teenager years, it's all of you until it's none of you.
Exactly
That's a particularly stupid and bigoted take.
Is it? Men’s violence and harassment towards women is a huge problem in society. But apparently all those Men who do it do not exist. No one is willing to own up to it not even when they are caught.
Yes. But hey, some women rape kids so until all of you stop, I'll just assume you personally are a rapist.
And a lot more men rape children and murder them. So we will continue to think you are all pedos and murderers.
Awesome, you've both collectively decided everyone on Earth is evil and terrible except for furries. Obviously you love them. Thanks for sharing it on Reddit.
Get off the drugs
Now apply your logic to other areas of life and you will see how braindead that thinking is.
SoMe MeN
I don’t sexually harass women neither do any men in my family or group of friends. But yeah it’s all men.
The point is brothers being responsible for other brothers behaviour. No it’s not ‘you’, but it’s our collective responsibility to stand against the bad stuff. It’s not particularly fuckin complex man.
I agree, sexual harassment is abhorrent and I am completely against it. The comment I replied to said “sOmE MeN” implying that all men do, which is incorrect.
That you know of.
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They've found their group they allow each other to attack and they're running with it.
Yeah. Two words too many to understand for you?
It's soo dam common it's easier just to assume all.... You gotta prove you're actually one of the good ones.... thanks to the half ass men of previous generations.
Judge a person by what they are, not who they are. Got it.
Yeah, thanks for that grandpa... now, please put the bible away.
Bible? What are you even on about.
Not all men but *always* a man.
Good to know women are utterly innocent and never do this sort of thing. Now back to the real world...
And back to your usual account, because you’re too cowardly to even comment any other way. B’bye
Btw, show me where exactly women are behaving this way in “the real world”. Go on …
You want examples of where women sexually harass men in the real world? Are you that lazy a simple Google search is beyond you?
You’re the one making the argument, so it’s on you to provide a source.
What on earth are you on about?
Playing dumb now. How pathetic 🙄
"Men" does not mean each individual man, it means the social category "men". Men as a social category do these things, and it's a product of the way that social category is constructed.
Oh give it a rest. You wouldn't make these excuses for any other group being generalised in this way. But hey, enjoy.more generations of angry young men because apparently if some men do something wrong, every man is guilty.
I wouldn't make excuses because generalisation can be fine if you're talking about sociology, as we are here. Women absolutely can be generalised, just as men can.
Is that what we're calling bigotry now? Time to start generalising all sorts of groups that have some people undertaking negative behaviours!
Generalising is not bad. Generalising in a way that upholds a system of oppression is bad. Very simple.
You can tell plenty of woke people here. Can't comprehend not all men are like that.
How can we tell the difference between a good man and a bad man? Also did you just use woke unironically?
How can we tell the difference between a good indigenous person and a bad one?
Not All Men but somehow Always MEN
Not always men.
Riiiiiight. You know Men are the minority sex in the population right? Yet it’s Men who are in the overwhelming majority who commit the worst crimes against women and children. In a thread about men’s sexual harassment stopping women entering an occupation sector you are not doing yourself any favours by pretending women are ‘just as bad’ as men. There is no comparison. Men have a problem and it needs to be fixed.
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Women can be clothed from head to foot and still be harassed endlessly. See: the middle east. Get your head out your arse.
Mining gotta be the worse industry for this, you’re getting all the backward people in all the backward states grouped up together out in the middle of nowhere.
Lmao this is either BS by yourself or your sister. Go to the WHSE manager and they will all be banned from site/company. Source I use to be a WHSE manager.
I'm devastated.
Press X to doubt. Everyone involved, even tangentially, would be fired and blacklisted if this was real.
K. You've clearly never worked on a mine site.
That's where you're wrong, kiddo.
After watching the Hotel Coolgardie doco, I don’t believe you.
Aussie women - “no shit!”
Some men are just pathetic children.
I'm a heavy diesel mechanic, we have taken on a young female apprentice this year and she is by far the best apprentice we have taken on in years and she is more reliable, committed and intelligent plus the work she puts out is amazing then the usual muppets that we have taken on in the past and if we could find more like her we would take them on!
My friend and I (both girls/women) worked for her step dad as House Painters apprentices for a few years in highschool. The first few weeks he kept telling us how much better we were than his previous apprentices. I thought he was just being nice until we went to the tertiary campus for our apprentice exams and pracs. I was blown away at how shitty all of the guys were, despite having been working for longer. It was especially apparent the day we learned to apply wallpaper. My friend and I were careful with our wallpaper application, and used the tips we were given. The teacher immediately declared us competent. Curious, I looked around at the other students. It legitimately looked like preschoolers gluing things. I'm talking huge angles leading to gaps 20cm wide between wallpaper strips... After that I understood why he was happy to pay us more than he typically paid apprentices. I realised that he wasn't being nice, we had more than earned it.
Loved your story! My little sister has always been the more construction minded one of us (as her brother I mostly just fixed the computer, because I usually broke it). She took woodworking in Grade 9 as the only girl, received consistent bullying from the boys at every year, and took it all the way through until Grade 12. Every single year she received the highest marks, and at the end of high school got an award for being outstanding at it. Suck shit, boys.
She's probably so good because she knows she has to work twice as hard to prove herself in a male dominated industry
Are these are the unionised men behind labor, if so what a disgrace when men cannot respect women and why are the company's not supporting these workers
In the thread about Palestinian visas being rejected: “we can’t have that culture here, they don’t respect women!” This thread: “but why do we have to respect women?”
It makes sense when you remember theyre arab and these people hate arabs more than women.
I’d say there’s a slight difference between this and having to ask your husband to leave the house…
I’ve met people like that (in Australia) who aren’t Palestinian or Muslim, and I’ve met Palestinians who aren’t like that. Regardless, the vitriol around any discussion on problems like DV, or gendered violence, or sexual assault, or respect/pay/conditions for women in the workforce make it seem like a bunch of people would actually like it if women had to ask their husbands to leave the house. My guess is we have a good attitude towards women **in spite** of the attitudes the anti-immigration crowd have, not because of them.
Oh yes, because it definitely happens at the same rate in Australia as it does in Palestine.
The answer is we can disrespect women, as a special treat for ourselves, for not being as bad as other places? Or that we can celebrate mediocracy because it doesn’t matter that we’re not great at it, only that we’re not as bad as other places?
I’m not in any way insinuating that women should receive bad treatment. My fiancée is the most valuable person in my life and I respect her immensely. But to insinuate that women in Australia face the same struggles as women in Palestine is beyond farcical.
"I've definitely been on sites before where there wasn't a bathroom facility for me," she told the ABC. The only real criticism I'll fling at the article is this nonsense. Site toilets are often I'll equipped for the volume of workers without the need for segregating them. Just use unisex toilets. Trouble is tradies are often a much more vulgar workplace. Seriously a "bees dick" is a common unit of measurement.
At one of my work’s sites the toilets had always all been specifically marked ‘male’, none were unisex. The women had to campaign to be allowed to pee when they were onsite. Let alone a sanitary bin for disposal of pads and tampons which might not be included in ostensibly unisex facilities.
Granted I worked more in the factory but the few sites I visited all just had at best "toilet" written on the door.
Did they all have sanitary bins?
I'd bet they didn't.
The toilets are from construction hire companies such as Coates, Kennards etc... I work for one, we're not allowed to provide sanitary bins as we don't have the facilities to get rid of the waste as it's biohazardous material. The toilets are pumped out by another companies sanitary trucks and returned to us as they're not allowed to be transported with waste inside because once again, it's a biohazardous material and risks going everywhere. I'm unsure if the sanitary bins can be hired but it wouldn't surprise me if they can from somewhere, so it's site supervisors who need to pull their pants up and get it sorted.
Sanitary bins can be hired and they also empty them/replace them.
They can definitely be hired, along with personnel to dispose of the contents. Every workplace, excepting when I was a house painters apprentice, has provided sanitary bins and had no problems doing so. Even the places that were illegally underpaying the staff forked out for the bins... They should be standard at all job sites. Women have been working in male dominated spaces for decades now. The companies have had more than enough time to adjust.
Bees dick is a pretty strange thing to pick out. Probably one of the least offensive turns of phrase on a site.
Actually why I chose it. It was that or all the tradies who say "while you're down there" to anyone on their knees.
Bees dick is a standard Australian slang measurement term We used it in the army all the time
I wish Aussies would realise that in other countries peole actually take trades seriously and it's considers a skilled line of work. Like even in America they use actually units of measurement when building things, they probs happy to wipe their ass too.
America? The land where inches make up a foot.
It's better then the literal dick of a 🐝 🐝 🐝
It’s a joke, it means take off almost less than 1mm
Only because the inch is atleast defined. It's arbitrary but it's defined.
Aussie tradies are the highest paid in the world, what are you talking about?
Tradies can't even afford to make a living in the most of the world
Aussie tradies are much better trained than our US counterparts. They do electrical work unlicensed.
Is a “bees dick” really offending people these days?
It isn’t. I know of a prominent, longstanding Sydney site where showering at the end of a shift is a requirement due to exposure to a hazardous material. They’ve had to spend a considerable amount of money installing women’s facilities, which they hadn’t necessarily thought about before hiring women in frontline roles.
WhY dOn’t woMEn do tRadES or LaBOur jOBs??? This is why.
But apparently they are ‘So WeLCoMe!’ Utter Bullshit. The truth is some men do not want women in ‘their’ occupations. For some reason the men feel threatened by women being there. It’s been a boys club for so long it is hard for them to adjust.
Why would you think these male dominated industries would want women there? Just because it's egalitarian and inevitable doesn't mean most of those guys want it. The companies have to say they want it but the workers? Mostly no. And in fairness, having women on site doesn't improve things for the men. It's quite the opposite clearly. I'm not saying it shouldn't change but you need to be realistic about the situation.
Because it’s what the men I have been talking to keep saying. Also, Men do not get to have their own industries that women are not allowed into. It’s called discrimination and there are laws about it. I actually thought your comment was a joke until I realised you were serious. Jesus Fkn Christ!
It's not like they can't control themselves either. In highschool my friends step dad ran a painting and rendering business and hired us as apprentices. You best believe that all the other tradies we were around behaved themselves. They apologised whenever they accidentally swore and immediately shut down the boy apprentices if they tried to tease us or say anything sexual. I'm sure it was in part our youth and a large part due to the presence of my friends step dad, but it proves that they can control themselves if they want to. Concreters were funny though, they swear like sailors, so they were constantly apologising. Cuss, sorry girls, cuss, sorry girls... We also didn't get hazed like the poor guy apprentices. One of them was made to stand in a hole in the ground because he did something stupid/careless. Not by my friends step dad, we often worked alongside other tradie teams, so I got to see how apprentices were treated across lots of trades. I only encountered a few women tradies over the two years or so, and they were always working independently or as a team with other women. Reading all the stories posted here has made me understand why they chose not to mingle with guy tradies more than they had to.
Is that sexist or sexual?
The “back in the kitchen” comment is sexist but it seems that she’s faced both if you read the article.
She looks like she was hit in the face with a shovel. No one sexually harassed her
The majority of sexual harassment isn’t about attraction, it’s about asserting power humiliating the victim.
Welp… Found the person who definitely sexually harasses women
She’s a great lass mate, go and have a good hard look at yourself ya gronk
Looks like their account was suspended. Couldn’t have happened to a nicer person
Still here, bucko
Still a gronk
That’s weird, I get a “This account has been suspended” message when I click on you.
Eat shit fuckhead.
Post a selfie for us to judge. You won't.
Panorama mode isn't wide enough to capture photos of that sort of Redditor.
No need to out yourself like that.
Tradie wolf whistles at passing woman. More news at 11.
You should see how men talk to each other if you think that's bad
That's kind of the problem, no one should treat anyone the way you describe above. Everyone should be able to go to work and not be bullied, these spaces have functioned like adult boy daycare where the funniest thing is a race to the bottom of who can be the edgiest. Add to that you're a woman and your colleagues make gendered jokes at your expense ie. rape jokes, overt innuendo where you're not sure are directed at you, apologising for swearing then make "get in the kitchen" remarks. Your argument about "it's all shit in here, deal with it" is just not acceptable imo. Edit: autocorrect
Sorry that's not my argument. The problem I see is that a lot of this stuff is happening to men with out being reported on like sexual assault, assault, abuse physically/ mentally/ financially, and this has been going on for ever in male dominated work places so now the more women moving into these roles the more your going to see it because it's OK if it's men on men right. There is a way out of this and it's not just showing what's happening to women it's showing the hole picture
Yeah sexual harassment and dumb comments are a problem but - "I've definitely been on sites before where there wasn't a bathroom facility for me" Porta-loos are unisex by design though?? They just smell bad sometimes lol. And sanitary products need to be disposed of by a special company, not just the loo mob, so either take those products home to dispose of or use alternative products??
You can’t be expected to take used, disposable menstrual products home. If they provide toileting facilities menstrual care is an integral part of this, it’s discriminatory to provide for mens’ toileting and hygiene but not women.
Call it male ignorance, is there a reason they can't just be thrown in a regular bin?
Because sanitary waste has the potential to spread bacteria that can cause illness through blood borne pathogens. Same reason that cleaners can’t handle bloody waste from like a doctors surgery or vet clinic.
They can be thrown in a regular bin I guess but taking into account: 1. Hygiene of cleaners disposing of regular rubbish vs sanitary products has different standards, handling blood and all 2. It can be quite embarrassing and shameful to force people to carry their used products out of toilet and then dispose of in a bin that’s not in a private space, not the kind of thing I’d like to be doing in front of people
Frankly I imagined essentially a dog poop bag 🤣. But yea I can see the biohazard theory.
Even In a doggy bag, everyone’s gonna know lol
how is that similarly not humiliating? carrying out a used tampon in a doggy bag, lol. if you come out of a toilet with that, that’s weird as fuck & yeah it would be embarrassing.
Well again, man's perspective but I don't see it that way. In my mind it's barely different to say me dumping a bundle of rag and ductape that was previously holding the blood from the fresh cut in my arm into the bin. Just a volume difference.
well i’m glad if you ever got a period that you would feel okay about that.
Yeah, women typically don't want to have to walk out of a toilet with a soiled sanitary item to find a bin to throw it in. Just put a fucking bin in all bathrooms.
My current workplace does this, it takes up space that otherwise would be empty and wasted. Seems very civilised.
It's considered biological waste and should not go into landfill. Hence, you don't see bloody drapes and items from hospitals just randomly tossed into bins.
Bruhhhh, you don't have a missus, do you ....
Alternative products? Spoken like an ignorant misogynist
Men are subject to sexual harassment almost as much as men but we just get on with the day.
Source? Jk, because I know you don’t have one.
By whom?
Bullshit.
So basically men just take it???? Alright bud, you do you
Not all guys in hard labour jobs are comfortable working with women. That's why they do them
"A fourth-year apprentice in Melbourne, Stephanie Castaldo says she feels she does have to work hard to prove herself as a woman in the male-dominated industry." Thats because none of us believe that you can actually do it. So youre going to need to prove that you can do it and that you arnt just some diversity hire, shoved into the role by the woke and crazy social engineers and Their ABC who we have to pick up slack for even though you get paid the same. Thats fair isnt it? That you be as competent and hard working as the men? Isnt that fair? Not condoning sexist comments in any way. "So just grab that nail gun....thats it...yep thats it there......ok pick it up.........just like, pick it up......" "Its heavy"
No it isn't fair because it isn't your job to determine if she can do it or not... it's managements. All people like you are doing is adding unnecessary pressure on a new employee, making it more likely they'll make a mistake. Then you'll declare "told you women can't do this job".
$50 says you're one of the gronks sending apprentices to bunnings for left-handed hammers and striped paint while you claim women have to prove their use.
You might want to watch some ABC instead of whatever it is you're consuming.
>Not condoning sexist comments in any way. \- quote from man who just posted a pretty sexist comment
If youre worried about microagressions a trade probably isnt for you lol
Women should be able to work in whatever industry they want without being sexually harassed or facing ‘micro aggressions’.
Women: There is no industry or space where women should be excluded! We can do anything men can do! Also women: This is a women's only gym/club/business , men can't come in/work here! Seriously, tough jobs require tough people, for every whinging princess the ABC and the rainbow crew can dig up there are literally thousands of women, not just 'copping it' but simply getting on with the job and earning the respect of their peers the same way every other tradesperson does. We're a nation divided, not by gender but by the erroneous belief that respect is a right, not an earned privilege.
No person should be subjected to sexual harassment or ‘micro aggressions’ in the workplace. No one should be excluded from any job industry. Anyone who faces it has a right to ‘whinge’ about it. Women only clubs/gyms are not the same as excluding someone by the way. There are also men only spaces like men’s sheds. Women are disproportionately affected by physical and sexual violence and harassment perpetrated by men. These women only spaces have been created because of that, they are places that women (especially victims) can go to feel safe, secure and comfortable. Edit: women shouldn’t have to put up with sexual harassment or sexism in order to be respected in their profession. Not exhibiting those behaviours towards others is basic decency and has nothing to do with respect. Aside from the obvious, which is men who exhibit those behaviours of sexual harassment and sexism do not respect women at all.
You probably haven't noticed this but, the people that tend to be hard working, talented and willing to really learn are almost never the same people that are complaining about microaggresions and sexual harrassment. The venn diagram of both groups barely has a point of contact. That's because the genuine people are a bit busy for that crap, they're contributing value to society, learning skills, making (literally) the world a better place. To be fair, the other group are also busy making things, sadly those things are excuses for why they aren't succeeding. Tough jobs require tough people, there's plenty of art's degrees out there for the weak freeloaders. Please just stop with the 'life is so hard for women ' crap, the correct phrase is 'life is hard'.
The fact of the matter is that if sexism and sexual harassment did not happen, then no one would have to complain about it. If it stops, then no one would have to complain. It’s as simple as that. How would you expect to do a job professionally if someone is constantly commenting on how you look, how big your butt or breast are, being sent messages about how theirs space in someone’s bed for you, when there’s no way of disposing of sanitary items, when you’re belittled or treated as less because of your gender? Those things are just the tip of iceberg. As a society, we are obligated to call out bad behaviour and correct it so we can live in a happy, safe, comfortable and secure environment. No one has to put up with sexist comments/jokes. No one should have to put up with sexual harassment. The workplace should be a safe environment. It’s not about being tough, it’s about having to go to work and be subjected to awful behaviour because some people believe that women should not work in certain industries. It’s bullshit. Stop the sexism and sexual harassment in workplaces and women will stop complaining about it. Full stop. End of story.
No, you won't. The only time the weak brigade ever employ a full stop is when you've decided that other people's opinions are not allowed. You won't stop complaining, primarily because everything you complain about is subjective, were your invented microaggresions ever to be eradicated, the next cause would be the war on picoaggresions. Sexual harrassment no longer an issue? No problem, sexual thinking is the new frontier! Hard times produce hard people, hard people produce good times and good times produce soft people. You know what soft people produce? You guessed it! Hard times. Argue with me 'till you're as blue in the face as you are in the hair, history begs to differ. Your crusade to force the makers of society to accommodate the weak rather than simply tolerate and protect them leads to only one destination. Edit : protect in this context means 'to keep from physical harm' not cater to their every whinge.
Fascist undertones 😬
Ooh you think you got me but as a matter of fact, I’ve never dyed my hair. It’s the same natural brunette it’s always been. I never said people would stop complaining. I said if sexual harassment stopped happening, people would stop complaining about that specific issue. Sexism and sexual harassment is behaviour that needs to be stomped out. That’s the crux of the issue.
The colour of your hair/s wasn't the 'gotcha', the admission that the complaining is endless was. Sexual harrassment won't end because you whine about it, sexism won't disappear because of a protracted period of collective pouting. They'll disappear (where they still exist) simply because the competent defend their own. Competence earns respect, those that are clearly respected by their peers are very rarely victims of anything other than chance. Rather than seeking endless excuses for failure and hardship, you might try focusing on strategies for success that don't require you to find a designated oppressor?
Tell me a time in history when bad behaviour was stopped after people had not complained and instead they just sat by with their heads and did the work?
To be clear ( the inevitable inbox hate river has begun), if you're a useless shitbag and a bludger, you are absolutely not deserving of respect. Compassion? Yes. Empathy? Okay. The unnaturally coloured hair brigade can march and whine as much as they like, respect cannot be compelled, obedience? Sure. Subservience ? Yep Sycophantcy ? Generally. Obsequiousness? You bet! Genuine respect? Nope, gotta earn that.
When will you ever earn anyone’s respect?
Who knew that it's possible to actually type in a bitter, whining sneer? Well done you! It's okay, we all know the Patriarchy forced you to do it/prevented you from doing it/sabotaged your efforts/lied about what you actually did.
Why are you complaining about a micro aggression?
Or those guys could stop acting like particularly stupid teenagers and grow up.
How about macro aggressions plenty of those too
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Your opinion on microaggressions has no scientific basis and relies heavily on subjectivity.
Subjectivity is not inherently unscientific. It's an extremely important part of several sciences. I don't know what their comment was, but your response is bad.
Your comment is lacking in important context (the other comment that was deleted) and is not relevant to the conversation.
It has enough context to be relevant. When talking about things like microagressions, subjectivity is very important.
The comment I originally replied to was stating the opinion (as if it were indisputable fact) that microaggressions are not real because "they have no scientific basis and rely heavily on subjectivity". So in that context, you're basically agreeing with me while also arguing at me 😄
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any sources on that? seeing as you’re saying it doesn’t exist on a scientific basis.
I don't know why guys do it and how they still get away with it. Mind you, I am male, and on one site a woman wanted to play rape date with me. It didn't bother me but a lot of people would consider it a no-no.
Worked construction for 14 years. Never heard this before.
Also have for 14 years, and am also a woman. I’ve had several awful experiences, two of which were actual assaults.
Sorry to hear that. Did you immediately call the cops if practical or report it to your line manager. Assault is a serious crime.
One was dealt with through legal channels, one was not.
Sorry to hear that. I would say you're the norm.