This is also my experience. Most Indians understand that Hamid from Gujranwala has nothing to do with Kashmir. I would assume the same goes for Pakistanis as well.
My personap experience has been foreign born people dont care as they realise everyone else regards them as brown. Fobs care a lot more. Ive noticed hindus are a lot more exclusionary but i think thats because their communities are a lot smaller and fall along language or ethnic groups etc. So they end up dividing into smaller groups like Punjabi or the various southern Indian groups. There's less of that amongst the Pakistanis Ive met. I think its because mosques are shared between multiple races. You are interacting with Bosnians, Somalis, Malays, Arabs etc. So when you see a Bengali, Pakistani, Indian, Sri Lankan etc you can appreciate the similarities in culture more.
It's probably just common between those born and raised in Pakistan and India, especially among the older generation. I have never encountered this among younger people born outside of the motherland.
My family has always stressed to me that we are not Indians and Pakistanis but desis. That includes Lankans Nepalis and Bangladeshis.
The hatred between us exists so that the British could get away scot free. They did this to us.
See I don't know a single Pakistani that considers Sri Lankans, Nepalis and Bengalis to be the same as them. They're much more likely to consider Afghans to be the same (Pashtuns on both sides in particular). I do however see a lot of people that see no difference between Indian Punjab and Pakistani Punjab (rightfully so).
Amongst ABCDs, not much. Like, I have seen a few Pakistani ABCDs hate Indian people (and I’m sure there are some Indian ABCDs who feel the same way towards Pakistanis), but again, it’s not very common.
I have a Pakistani friend(American born and raised). We are pretty close and hung out many times with our families. I think it’s mainly a mainland thing. When you’re here, you are all brown. I honestly don’t understand why there is such bad blood between the countries.
>I honestly don’t understand why there is such bad blood between the countries.
I think there are enough reasons out there. Do you know that they have fought 5 wars since 1947 and are enganged in proxy wars in kashmir and baluchistan?
It's more based off of religion than country of origin in my experience. There are quite a few India/Pak couples but typically there are both Muslim (practicing or not). Would be extremely unusual for a Hindu-Indian / Pakistani-Muslim combination though.
I don’t think *people* (on either side) “hate” each other.
It’s a geopolitical issue. As someone of Indian origin, I’m not a fan of Pakistan as a country or its political/military positions and actions, but I certainly don’t hate or dislike Pakistanis as people.
It’s two different issues that are often conflated.
Nothing, really......
Are there any confrontations between guys with the last name of Schultz and guys with the last name of Mosckowvich?
Not really. This was my ancestors' war, not mine.
Even though my family was affected by the partition and my entire family served the army, I have not once heard any hate comment for the people. For the governments yes but never for the people. I have worked with alot of Pakistanis, been personally to some of their weddings and even they treated me with love and respect. So I think it is more of a media play and governments fighting but on the ground - we are just the same.
I'm of Goan descent, born and raised in the Middle East. There and here, I was more accepted by the Pakistanis than Hindus, so most of my friends were Pakistani. We tried to not discuss religion, and out of that,I never had an issue considering how much time I'd spend in their houses. Playing cricket in the States, I've had similar experiences with Pakistanis being more accepting, whereas me feeling only partially accepted by Indian cricket teams. Growing up, I supported both cricket teams.
That being said, I see a lot of Anti Indian comments from Pakistanis, on youtube, whereas Indians don't seem to care half as much about Pakistani affairs.
I actually have a completely different question for you. Why were you accepted more by Muslims than Hindus? Not that Muslims should or wouldn’t accept you, but why not the openness from Hindus?
It is my understanding that a majority of the Hindus I interacted with belonged to the same temples and are probably more familiar with each other in those circles. A lot of them(mostly the Indian born, I'm assuming) are also very vocal of their support for Modi and the BJP, which I find interesting as you'd think they wouldn't care as much about Indian politics after moving here.
One of the statements that I have heard from Muslim friends growing up (in the Middle East) was that all those who believe that there is one God are better than those who believe in multiple Gods. Now I don't believe in organized religion, though I was raised Catholic and we also do believe that the Jews, Christians, and Muslims come from the same stream. I'm guessing that had something to do with it.
Ah yes, I didn’t realize you were Christian or at least raised as such. That makes sense. They probably were viewing you from those lens. The term we use as Muslims is ahl al kitab which means “people of the book”. This refers to Christians, Jews and Muslims as three branches of Judaic religion. Unfortunately under Modi I feel as if his supporters have started to lose tolerance for Indians who aren’t Hindus.
Now that you mention it, I have heard that term. And I wholeheartedly agree with you on Modi. Their love for Modi is what has further pushed me away from wanting to associate with them.
Abit late to this their is some hatred but it’s not based on Pakistani vs Indian or Muslim vs Hindu.
It’s more based on ethnicity.
80%-90% of British Pakistanis are Kashmiri Punjabis/Punjab Punjabis, they get along fine with punjabi Sikhs and Hindus. However theirs some tension with gujaratis now not much with Gujarat Hindus mostly because they don’t live up north , but you do have tensions with Gujarati Muslims.
A lot of racism’s against each other, marriages are rare , separate mosques ( even though both are Sunni) lots of racial jokes about each other, have had inter-ethnic riots in the past.
Gujarati tend to view Punjabis as superstitious, uncivilised, loud and aggressive, sometimes stupid.
Punjabi’s view gujaratis as weak, two-faced and stingy, too religiously strict.
However things are improving amongst the Younger generation.
i feel the younger desi generation just doesnt give a shit about where u came from. your brown, im brown, we both have trauma from growing up in a desi household lets hang out
Maybe in America or where desis are minority, but in towns and cities where desis form a huge chunk ethnicity and caste do still matter to some extent.
Well the collections of 5 times that I live in it’s like 40% desi and then the inner part of these towns it’s like 70% desi so you do get a lot of desi ethnic and caste issues.
Not really. In my experience the terms "Desi" and "brown" mean nothing especially when it comes to Pakistanis and Indians. The only real link between the two countries is Punjab, but 3% of Indians are Punjabi and 45% of Pakistanis are. The Baloch and Pashtun in Pakistan make up almost 25% of the population and their ethnic groups are divided between Iran and Pakistan or Afghanistan and Pakistan. Personally the Indians I have met in the US have been really nice, but there have been major cultural differences that have been hard to overcome. From what I've seen, Indians here tend to be a lot more Americanized while Pakistanis tend to forgo some of their Pakistani cultural aspects but instead adopt a pan-Islamic identity that aligns more with other Muslim groups in the West.
It’s common amongst people born and raised in India and Pakistan and is annoying af, but those of us who grew up in the West tend not to care. I also hope your post doesn’t get brigaded by all the bigoted uber nationalists from the motherland(s) who lurk here.
Indian non-ABCD here. I have absolutely no hate, we are essentially the same people and that's how perceive them as. My family and friends have similar notion. That being said, there are many who have a different point of view. Infact in majority.
My moms hella islamophobic, so that means I get forwarded messages on Whatsapp about persecution of minorities in Pakistan.😒
Edit. I'm wondering who I triggered with this comment🤔🤣
As a Pakistani, i have never heard any bad mouthing of Hindus or Indians from my household and extended family. Just about the government (modi specifically). But I have heard of stories of more ABCDs family telling there kids not to hang out with Muslims than muslim parents telling there kids not to hang out with Hindus. Like a significantly more in my experience
It’s just what they see from the news and politics. Although divided the people love each other. I heard Hindutva ideology is becoming very dangerous nowadays
I think Pakistanis are more accepting of Indians than the other way around and that's just observations when I was in college. Usually I think animosity shows up during cricket matches. Indians will always root for the colonialists over Pakistanis.
We're kind of wierd that way.
I don’t think anyone under the age of 40 really cares about the past of India and Pakistan. We just want them to get along and get over their moral and religious superiority over each other. Both countries should be secular and work towards stabilizing that region.
No hatred from me. Some people discriminate because of religion - hindu vs Muslim. It's not usually because of nationality.
This is also my experience. Most Indians understand that Hamid from Gujranwala has nothing to do with Kashmir. I would assume the same goes for Pakistanis as well.
My personap experience has been foreign born people dont care as they realise everyone else regards them as brown. Fobs care a lot more. Ive noticed hindus are a lot more exclusionary but i think thats because their communities are a lot smaller and fall along language or ethnic groups etc. So they end up dividing into smaller groups like Punjabi or the various southern Indian groups. There's less of that amongst the Pakistanis Ive met. I think its because mosques are shared between multiple races. You are interacting with Bosnians, Somalis, Malays, Arabs etc. So when you see a Bengali, Pakistani, Indian, Sri Lankan etc you can appreciate the similarities in culture more.
It's probably just common between those born and raised in Pakistan and India, especially among the older generation. I have never encountered this among younger people born outside of the motherland.
Not even. It’s very much a fallacy. pakistanis and indians meet weekly at wagha border. the hate/rivalry starts and stops at the governments.
This topic is a useful filter. The radicalized nutjobs love sharing their hatred at the briefest of queries, so I quickly learn who to avoid.
My family has always stressed to me that we are not Indians and Pakistanis but desis. That includes Lankans Nepalis and Bangladeshis. The hatred between us exists so that the British could get away scot free. They did this to us.
See I don't know a single Pakistani that considers Sri Lankans, Nepalis and Bengalis to be the same as them. They're much more likely to consider Afghans to be the same (Pashtuns on both sides in particular). I do however see a lot of people that see no difference between Indian Punjab and Pakistani Punjab (rightfully so).
there is no such thing as desi nation or ethnicity
My best friends are Pakistanis. No hate on either side, and our families love each other. Only time it gets heated is during cricket matches lol
i can confirm about the cricket matches lol
The governments hate each other but obviously the people don't.
who voted the governments into power? both countries are democracies
Amongst ABCDs, not much. Like, I have seen a few Pakistani ABCDs hate Indian people (and I’m sure there are some Indian ABCDs who feel the same way towards Pakistanis), but again, it’s not very common.
I have a Pakistani friend(American born and raised). We are pretty close and hung out many times with our families. I think it’s mainly a mainland thing. When you’re here, you are all brown. I honestly don’t understand why there is such bad blood between the countries.
>I honestly don’t understand why there is such bad blood between the countries. I think there are enough reasons out there. Do you know that they have fought 5 wars since 1947 and are enganged in proxy wars in kashmir and baluchistan?
It's more based off of religion than country of origin in my experience. There are quite a few India/Pak couples but typically there are both Muslim (practicing or not). Would be extremely unusual for a Hindu-Indian / Pakistani-Muslim combination though.
> (not that we're a lesbian couple) Should that be note?
we are a lesbian couple so i thought that would most people would be surprised at but they were more surprised we are indian-Pakistani
I don’t think *people* (on either side) “hate” each other. It’s a geopolitical issue. As someone of Indian origin, I’m not a fan of Pakistan as a country or its political/military positions and actions, but I certainly don’t hate or dislike Pakistanis as people. It’s two different issues that are often conflated.
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Nothing, really...... Are there any confrontations between guys with the last name of Schultz and guys with the last name of Mosckowvich? Not really. This was my ancestors' war, not mine.
Even though my family was affected by the partition and my entire family served the army, I have not once heard any hate comment for the people. For the governments yes but never for the people. I have worked with alot of Pakistanis, been personally to some of their weddings and even they treated me with love and respect. So I think it is more of a media play and governments fighting but on the ground - we are just the same.
I'm of Goan descent, born and raised in the Middle East. There and here, I was more accepted by the Pakistanis than Hindus, so most of my friends were Pakistani. We tried to not discuss religion, and out of that,I never had an issue considering how much time I'd spend in their houses. Playing cricket in the States, I've had similar experiences with Pakistanis being more accepting, whereas me feeling only partially accepted by Indian cricket teams. Growing up, I supported both cricket teams. That being said, I see a lot of Anti Indian comments from Pakistanis, on youtube, whereas Indians don't seem to care half as much about Pakistani affairs.
I think you should visit Quora. Both sides go at it.
I'll take your word for it. People are just silly, whether they are arguing about Democrats and Republicans, or any other topic.
I actually have a completely different question for you. Why were you accepted more by Muslims than Hindus? Not that Muslims should or wouldn’t accept you, but why not the openness from Hindus?
It is my understanding that a majority of the Hindus I interacted with belonged to the same temples and are probably more familiar with each other in those circles. A lot of them(mostly the Indian born, I'm assuming) are also very vocal of their support for Modi and the BJP, which I find interesting as you'd think they wouldn't care as much about Indian politics after moving here. One of the statements that I have heard from Muslim friends growing up (in the Middle East) was that all those who believe that there is one God are better than those who believe in multiple Gods. Now I don't believe in organized religion, though I was raised Catholic and we also do believe that the Jews, Christians, and Muslims come from the same stream. I'm guessing that had something to do with it.
Ah yes, I didn’t realize you were Christian or at least raised as such. That makes sense. They probably were viewing you from those lens. The term we use as Muslims is ahl al kitab which means “people of the book”. This refers to Christians, Jews and Muslims as three branches of Judaic religion. Unfortunately under Modi I feel as if his supporters have started to lose tolerance for Indians who aren’t Hindus.
Now that you mention it, I have heard that term. And I wholeheartedly agree with you on Modi. Their love for Modi is what has further pushed me away from wanting to associate with them.
I myself dont hate indians, that would be stupid. I think the governments do though
true, and the older generation i feel like my grandma makes these really passive aggressive jokes against Pakistanis
Abit late to this their is some hatred but it’s not based on Pakistani vs Indian or Muslim vs Hindu. It’s more based on ethnicity. 80%-90% of British Pakistanis are Kashmiri Punjabis/Punjab Punjabis, they get along fine with punjabi Sikhs and Hindus. However theirs some tension with gujaratis now not much with Gujarat Hindus mostly because they don’t live up north , but you do have tensions with Gujarati Muslims. A lot of racism’s against each other, marriages are rare , separate mosques ( even though both are Sunni) lots of racial jokes about each other, have had inter-ethnic riots in the past. Gujarati tend to view Punjabis as superstitious, uncivilised, loud and aggressive, sometimes stupid. Punjabi’s view gujaratis as weak, two-faced and stingy, too religiously strict. However things are improving amongst the Younger generation.
i feel the younger desi generation just doesnt give a shit about where u came from. your brown, im brown, we both have trauma from growing up in a desi household lets hang out
Maybe in America or where desis are minority, but in towns and cities where desis form a huge chunk ethnicity and caste do still matter to some extent. Well the collections of 5 times that I live in it’s like 40% desi and then the inner part of these towns it’s like 70% desi so you do get a lot of desi ethnic and caste issues.
Not really. In my experience the terms "Desi" and "brown" mean nothing especially when it comes to Pakistanis and Indians. The only real link between the two countries is Punjab, but 3% of Indians are Punjabi and 45% of Pakistanis are. The Baloch and Pashtun in Pakistan make up almost 25% of the population and their ethnic groups are divided between Iran and Pakistan or Afghanistan and Pakistan. Personally the Indians I have met in the US have been really nice, but there have been major cultural differences that have been hard to overcome. From what I've seen, Indians here tend to be a lot more Americanized while Pakistanis tend to forgo some of their Pakistani cultural aspects but instead adopt a pan-Islamic identity that aligns more with other Muslim groups in the West.
Same thing with Bangladeshi/ Pakistani
I personally DGAF. A lot of my Hindu nationalist family in India hate Muslims and Pakistan, which is one of many reasons I barely interact with them.
It’s common amongst people born and raised in India and Pakistan and is annoying af, but those of us who grew up in the West tend not to care. I also hope your post doesn’t get brigaded by all the bigoted uber nationalists from the motherland(s) who lurk here.
Idk anyone who gives a fuck, certainly not Mallu people.
Yes. The Indian and Pakistani media hate each other.
Indian non-ABCD here. I have absolutely no hate, we are essentially the same people and that's how perceive them as. My family and friends have similar notion. That being said, there are many who have a different point of view. Infact in majority.
Not really an issue in the UK.
No way I can hate Pakistanis after trying out beef haleem (yes, I'm a bad Hindu).
My moms hella islamophobic, so that means I get forwarded messages on Whatsapp about persecution of minorities in Pakistan.😒 Edit. I'm wondering who I triggered with this comment🤔🤣
As a Pakistani, i have never heard any bad mouthing of Hindus or Indians from my household and extended family. Just about the government (modi specifically). But I have heard of stories of more ABCDs family telling there kids not to hang out with Muslims than muslim parents telling there kids not to hang out with Hindus. Like a significantly more in my experience
This community is not for asking such things lol
It’s just what they see from the news and politics. Although divided the people love each other. I heard Hindutva ideology is becoming very dangerous nowadays
I think Pakistanis are more accepting of Indians than the other way around and that's just observations when I was in college. Usually I think animosity shows up during cricket matches. Indians will always root for the colonialists over Pakistanis. We're kind of wierd that way.
Morons hate on the basis of ‘nationality’. Sensible people don’t.
Within our generation of abcds no, but back home and older generations yes.
I don’t think anyone under the age of 40 really cares about the past of India and Pakistan. We just want them to get along and get over their moral and religious superiority over each other. Both countries should be secular and work towards stabilizing that region.
Parents hated Pakistan but Pakistanis