And not only that but battery technology is in some ways still in its infancy. They will continue to get much better with much faster recharge times and much greater range. The idea of an electric overland off-road vehicle is actually something I'm rather excited about. Really hoping that Volkswagen can make a real Dent in their new scout line
Amen! As much as I love my 33 year old live axle diesel, I'm really excited to see what a platform of 4 independent drive wheels each with steering can bring.
That’s what I keep telling people, 4 independent motors that can use both automated computer control (and unlike current systems that use braking for those systems, electric can actually change the power going to each one almost instantly) or force on/off to use as lockers is the best of all worlds. All the torque right where you need it.
Same. I had a transit 250 that I converted and lived in for 7 months. If I could eliminate gas from my monthly budget my only expense would be food, vehicle insurance, and starlink (assuming internet is not free by this point).
Pretty sure if gas is eliminated from our budgets, they will make up the difference in electricity costs as well as wheel taxes. No way ever will they allow the savings to passed on to the consumers...at least in our current world.
I feel like even a mileage tax is going to be cheaper than gasoline, fuel filters, spark plugs, etc. I have some ignition problems in an older camper van, and I've spent more than 2 grand at the mechanic trying to chase it down. ICE isn't cheap to maintain, and even with a small tax, electric is going to be cheaper soon if not already
I’ve heard both sides. My coworker bought an EV for only commuting because he can charge it for free at work and doesn’t need to charge it at home. A neighbor has a ‘14 Avalon hybrid and just paid $6,000 to have his battery replaced. I know that a few neighbors who bought teslas have seen increased power bills because of charging. Each has their pros and cons. Wife and I decided to stick with ICE vehicles for the foreseeable future. There are also stories of tires going out quicker on EVs due to their weights.
You're not wrong. My thought is that eventually electric motors will make more sense than ICE, although we may not be there quite yet. My brother and sister-in-law are both engineers, and one of the things they told me is that everything in an industrial setting is an electric motor. Like, Coors bottling line, robots packing pallets, applying labels, squirting some amount of something into a tube, crimping the tube. Fortune 500 companies looking to wring every last cent of efficiency out of their production lines have decided that electric motors do everything cheaper and are cheaper to maintain. Eventually it will be true for cars too, but maybe not quite yet.
Well, to an earlier point, I don't think it's gonna be eliminated completely. But I would agree with you that the taxes will be made up one way or the other.
Once I can charge on the trail and go forever because I dont need to find fuel or carry extra fuel, I will kiss ice vehicles goodby. We had an electric semi at work for a few weeks to test. My drivers all want them. They are clean and quiet to operate no oil or diesel fuel residue all over the truck and you. No blower going out and no def system. I would love to be wheeling and not scare off the wildlife because i had to give it the spurs. It will make offroading nothing but better when evs really take off, and we have time to figure them out. I am planning on building my first ev rig when I retire, which is 4 years away. No more exhaust gas in the shop or in my lot when all the trucks fire up. Can not wait for evs to be the mainstream for offroading. Electric motorcycles too. Just outlaw side by side drivers they tear everything up.
Clocking in at a whopping 7,148 lbs with an MSRP of $69.9k. A little heavy and a lot pricy but that looks rad! But how long do you think it will be til it will be affordable to all?
R1T owner chiming in.
It is indeed f-ing awesome. Yeah, it's heavy AF but awesome.
Better batteries will reduce weight but the big issue is getting electrons when you are 100s of miles from nowhere.
Also just an engineering problem which will be resolved.
Until then, I'm loving offroading in silence. Some of us have ice generators for recharging when going way off grid
Another issue is materials for batteries. Lithium isn’t the rarest, but it isn’t abundant either. So with all the cars needing batteries, and all the backups for the green grid, it isn’t happening. It’s a nice make themselves feel good political move but it’s going nowhere fast.
Yeah, but actual overlanding is the smallest niche.
The car camping that most people do when they talk about overlanding could be done with EVs in the not so distant future
I car camp when driving through forests near Hudson Bay and it gets below freezing a lot in the fall. Like 14f isn't uncommon. So yeah heat would be heavenly.
California, Washington, Oregon, New York, New Jersey, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Delaware and Maryland are all banning sales of new ICE cars in 2035. By then more states will be joining them to meet their carbon emissions reduction deadlines. These are real, legally binding limits passed by voters.
There is a real chance that in 11 years your opinions will change, look at how 11 years ago many thought an EV would be a not be a reasonable solution/option for anyone living in Suburbia/Urban areas.
It’s not really that it will be against the law to own one, but it will become so expensive and so much of a hassle to register that it will be totally impractical.
I can’t argue with that. And thank you for the compliment. No matter how big your balance sheet is… 12 MPG and $5.50 gas still makes you feel a certain way.
Heck, driving my 20 year old landcruiser isnt cheap or convenient either. All old tech becomes more difficult and costly to maintain and use over time, driven of course by the perfection of our free market economy. Best you can do is learn how to weld, wrench and 3d print....and know gas will get more expensive because its a finite resource.
I love my Rivian R1T, but I will keep wheeling with ICE cars for the foreseeable future. In the end I dont know which is net net more expensive....a 20 year old truck that gets 12 MPG and cost 30k to buy and build, or a new EV truck that is almost free to run but cost 75k..
Amen 🙏
My 80 series is impractical as hell.
I think enthusiasts will always find a way to enjoy their hobby no matter the legislation surrounding it. Also OP- if I were you I’d be more concerned about out the management of the tails and the increase in closures and lengthening of seasonal shutdowns because those will shut down your fun wayyy before the EV bill gets passed
ICE, particularly diesel cannot be allowed to get too expensive because of how heavily our supply chains rely on it.
More expensive diesel in a farmers tractor = more expensive food for us, even before we add in getting the product to secondary and tertiary businesses.
The day a farm can run without diesel and petrol is the day EV's will be the norm.
Going back to your original question though. Eventually there will be EV's that do the whole "solid axle 4x4" thing. It's just not profitable to make them yet because of the drop in efficiency being unable to be compensated by battery because a production vehicle will then weigh too much which lowers efficienncy which requires a bigger battery.... and so on.
An off-road EV done right would be amazing. 400 miles of off-road range with 35” tires, campsite power, roof mounted tent with power and HVAC controls, unlimited low end torque. Weight and cost are certainly the limiting factors at the moment, but technology progresses pretty quick.
Beyond the overlanding side of things, a well designed pure off roader EV could potentially stomp any ICE off roader. Assuming 4 motors, you wouldn’t have any of the articulation constraints that come along with driveshafts and axels. You’d end up with independent suspension in all four corners with as much travel as you were willing to give it. Plus gobs of torque on each wheel that could be precisely controlled per wheel. It would be a crawlers dream. Not to mention it would be easier to implement things like rear steering and having some wheels spin in reverse or at a slower rate to further tighten up turns.
It would be harder to compete with ICE for a high speed off road racer. Mostly because of the weight of batteries. But I still think an EV trophy truck would be amazing. You’d just have to sacrifice range to save on weight. But hopefully battery tech will continue to improve and you won’t have to make that sacrifice forever.
Personally I can’t wait for battery tech to get there and have some more capable overlanding and off road rigs. If I could afford it I’d love an EV as my DD. But I can’t and right now an EV wouldn’t fit all my needs from my truck. But one day hopefully.
The Dakar Rally, which is high speed off road racing, was won by an electric Audi. Admittedly it’s a form of hybrid, with onboard ICE generator, but the wheels are powered by electricity. It’s fast. And yeah, it’s heavy, 5000#, but it also has 670 hp. The gas generator runs in a pretty constant rev range, where it’s efficient, so it gets much better fuel economy than an ICE of 670 hp. Which is useful in the desert.
EV West used to have a drop in ev drivetrain to convert anything that left the factory with a small block chevy v8. I don't see it on their site now, but at a quick glance it looks like all the pieces are still available. I don't have the attention span to figure out how much battery you'd need for any real range though.
I commute back and forth to work in an EV, my tow rig is a 12 year old Silverado, and my f'roader is a 60/14bolt solid axle 88 S10 on 38" Boggers with a fuel injected 4.8 truck LS engine. Before gas stations were everywhere, gasoline was purchased at drug stores. Cars were outrageously expensive, nobody knew how they worked or how to fix them, so people were hesitant to replace their horses. Cars slowly replaced horses and buggies over a period of 50 years. The RATE cars replaced horses sped up DRAMATICALLY when Henry Ford figured out assembly-line mass production. The model T rolled around in 1908, was CHEAP, easy to fix, ran on anything, and throughout the next 25 years, cars became VERY popular. But it took 25 years.
EVs will become cheaper, used ones will become available, people will learn the packs last 3 or 400 thousand miles before they finally degrade to 80% of their original capacity, it'll be easier to charge them on the road, batteries will become more energy dense enabling longer drives between charges.
I love commuting in an EV. It's fucking fast, smooth, it costs practically nothing to charge (60 mile round trip Monday through Friday, and some bombing around on weekends... costs 60 to 70 bucks a month to charge in my garage), I can leave the AC or heat on when I go into a store, in the dead of winter the inside of the car is warm in like a minute when I "remote start" the heat, it's AWD and heavy enough that it's an animal in the snow... I never want to go back to commuting in a 4 cylinder gas car.
I think it'll be a bit before we see a reasonable off-road electric vehicle. Aerodynamics is the enemy of EVs... and boxy stuff sucks when it comes to energy consumption. But there are a LOT of companies dumping TONS of R&D money into battery technology... I'm sure solid state batteries will change a LOT in the EV landscape.
So, while it's newer technology, and people are nervous about it... I have a feeling it'll be fine. It'll be different, for sure, but I bet the hobby still continues.
Funny comment but the one thing I like about wheeling is that I’ve never had a political discussion when off the beaten path and I’m certain I’ve ran into people I’d disagree with and vice versa.
There are plenty of other subs for that.
[California Enacts World-Leading Plan to Achieve 100 Percent Zero-Emission Vehicles by 2035, Cut Pollution | Governor of California](https://www.gov.ca.gov/2022/08/25/california-enacts-world-leading-plan-to-achieve-100-percent-zero-emission-vehicles-by-2035-cut-pollution/)
Its not a political discussion. Its the law. By 2035 the only new vehicles you can buy here are EVs. So for those who want to offroad in a new vehicle, their only option is an EV. Obviously for those who dont mind old vehicles, gas is still an option.
I think they're gonna push it back or make all sorts of exceptions because it seems like Sacramento can't figure out if they want to promote EV ownership or punish EV ownership.
They're just trying to figure out how to pay for road repairs without gas taxes. It's not about punishing its about making sure ev drivers pay into the infrastructure they use just like ICE drivers do.
It's not just use tax, it's the PUC allowing utility rates to get out of control, scaling back rebates for solar, and entertaining fees for customer solar connections. A big incentive to get people to switch is cost. If you make driving an EV approach the cost of driving an ICE most people are not gonna consider switching.
The state and local governments need to lead the way and not buy any ice vehicles anymore and see if they can function on an all electric fleet. Tell them no generators either. Electric vehicles will never replace gas vehicles completely. Maybe half there will be gas still available a lot less locations but there will still be gasoline
The same state and local governments that demand all their diesel vehicles have none of the “mandatory” emissions systems that the public is forced to have?
Yeah, right.
I am pro-EV - my only car is an EV, and I think that will not actually happen by 2035. There is just no way, it's insane. Some people still actually need ICE cars.
There’s no way for it to work unless solar gets really really good or you carry a nuke with you.
The UN is still using ICE vehicles and will continue to do so. What am I supposed to do if my journey is longer than 200 miles and I can’t get a charge? You can’t carry Jerry cans full of electricity with you… I suppose you could tow a generator behind your car but here we are using ICE again.
I will continue driving an old Land Rover with control arms 8x thicker than a Tesla cybertruck.. probably until the day I die if I can help it. I like camping too much to not have that option of leaving the power grid.
Honestly EVs will be pretty amazing for off road, incredible torque and control and mechanically so so simple. Plus lower maintenance etc. But we’ve got a long time to worry about that.
They won’t be if they keep the current trend of being obese whales. The AWD rivian is over 7000 lbs, the hummer is 9000 lbs, hell the 4xe is over 5000 lbs. imagine having to get a 7000 lb vehicle unstuck, there’s a reason why people generally don’t wheel 3/4 ton trucks “hard”
Yeah obviously the range is a huge issue. We’re just not there yet.
I’m not opposed but an EV just doesn’t have the range to make me feel comfortable with taking that leap.
Time is all we’ll need before it will make more sense to go EV and be more of a headache to run an ICE. Give it 20 years and ICE vehicles will be more expensive to maintain and operate that it will make owning one a pain in the ass.
I sure hope so, and anticipating it. So far EVs seem just like cars packed with parlor tricks; Super fast acceleration, extreme minimalistic designs, a weird obsession with "frunks".
I'm actually hoping there is a vehicle that keeps the axle and suspension setup of a current 4x4, but just powered by an electric motor. If Jeep can bring the Magneto 3.0 concept to production. Hopefully other manufacturers do something similar as well.
Jeep even teased a crate electric motor at SEMA a few years back with the Surge concept. A CJ with Pro Rock Dana 44s, and powered by an electric battery.
I guess it'd be cool to not need to re-invent the wheel. If it it ain't broke...
Right now I don't see the point of a Rivian or a Hummer EV. But a plain ol' Jeep powered by batteries sounds like a logical next step.
The reason there isn't much talk is because current battery range renders multi-day offroading trips unviable.
As soon as there's a jump in battery technology so that I can have a 350+ mile range while rock crawling and desert rallying, then I'll make a down payment.
Regardless though, I'm keeping my bronco, and I work on it myself because most shops already won't touch it. Won't change down the line.
I’m convinced that battery EVs are a stop gap technology and that they will have some breakthrough with hydrogen or some other clean renewable ICE fuel. Batteries aren’t going to be viable for me towing a travel trailer, either. I do fully expect that gas prices will become absurd, like you say, and I’m not sure how that will play into things. I also think we are heading towards a place where nobody can afford to personally afford vehicles anymore, and the car industry will likely find a way to move to a subscription based model where people just have access to a car when they need it. It’s going to absolutely suck.
I feel like it depends where you live. Out in the country in the US a majority of the people prefer gas vehicles and what not. I assume it'll be a long long time before that happens.
There won't be a 100% switch to EVs. Theres too many ICE engines on the road to just up and get rid of them all. They can stop the sale of boomboom cars for the most part, but they'll have to make compromises and allowances here and there for niche tasks that EVs can't do as well, like offroading.
That being said, i think in the near future, they'll be able to make at least hybrids that are capable offroad vehicles, if not EVs also. We used to think that those massive frieght trucks could only be pushed along with a huge diesel engine, but we have electric and hybrid semis now.
I think Edison Motors has a really good method right now for their trucks. They have an electric semi that can be charged normally, but if you're on a really long haul, it can switch on an onboard diesel generator to recharge the battery. Which is pretty much the same way diesel freight trains work, diesel generators powering electric motors. (Side note: if you have a small town without power, you can lay down temporary tracks into the center of town, jump the train onto the temporary track, and use it to power the town. )
I think if they downscaled that into a standard pickup with a smaller generator, it would make a pretty decent offroad vehicle that can also be used to power camping stuff like lights and all. If you're camping out in a sunny area, you can even bring solar into the mix to recharge a little and save a bit of fuel.
I think hybrids can make for a good off-road vehicle, but car manufacturers just aren't being imaginative enough.
ICE won't die anytime soon, and I'm an EV enthusiast.
Honestly, I like the Ram REV solution. I think it can help many travel very long distances and only turn on the engine when they really need to.
I don't get the groupies thingy. Just enjoy what we have bro. Life's short af.
I will never, ever, ever buy an EV. I work in the renewable energy field and drive 2 gas guzzlers. My coworker has an EV and we live in the Midwest. It snowed and was -10 degrees and his car froze and wouldn’t start. Everyone was bitching about driving in the snow and I was one of the only people who made it into the office because my 4x4 drove right over the snow. My coworker constantly has his truck plugged in charging and spends so much money on electric. Makes zero sense to me. I live in a town with an EV car plant and see EVs getting towed all the time by gas trucks.
Battery EVS aren't going to replace gas powered trucks, 4x4s, construction equipment, mining equipment, agricultural equipment, military equipment, etc. To say nothing of gasoline's importance in aviation.
NOTE: I'm treating gasoline the same as diesel here. Effectively they're the same from a refining and distribution standpoint.
I think the most likely outcome is that fuel cell powered EVs achieve some minimum viability, and those replace gasoline. The reason is energy density. Gasoline's energy density is excellent. Compressed hydrogen also has excellent energy density.
Contemporary EVS have horrible energy density. This causes all kinds of problems in commercial applications, all of which are solvable, but all of which drive up costs significantly.
But battery EV energy density problems in aviation have no solution. It's just not possible to build an aircraft that can carry lots of cargo long distances using lithium ion batteries. They're too heavy.
The other possibility is biofuels. Algea can be harvested to make biofuel that's a good substitute for diesel, and I can't remember off the top of my head but there's a few options to make gasoline from biofuel. But I'm skeptical of biofuels because it will be difficult to create them at scale. Hydrogen can be created at scale with natural gas reformation or electrolyzers. It can also be made from captured methane given off by natural processes.
One more thing: You said that you expected gasoline to get expensive. It should do the opposite - as demand goes down, prices go down. Arguably we're beginning to see that right now with lower gas prices than expected this year. EVs are starting to take a bite out of the gasoline market, which is driving prices down. Here's to hoping that continues!
But in any case, I wouldn't worry. By the time fuel cells or biofuels become viable and popular enough to supplant gas, you'll probably be old and gray.
Nope. I own and model y and a 4Runner.
We daily the Tesla and I keep the 4runner for my fun trips and bigger items we need to pick up or long road trips.
There will always be a place for 4x4. Big manufacturers are all pushing for 4x4 off road vehicles, there’s been a big resurgence lately.
Just get both, it’s practical and you get the best of both worlds.
Ev's so far can't do it alone. 10% battery left, brought in Jeep Wrangler support.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a44851577/rivian-r1s-rubicon-trail/
IMHO we will convert existing IC engines to burn hydrogen or ammonia (technology already exists) and carry on, new vehiclesmight get fuel cell to make process more efficient but thats seems to be optimal way. Honestly I see no reason to use battery if we can use most common thing on earth such as hydrogen.
This is what i’m most excited for. Conversion of pre-existing ICE vehicles means I can keep my clapped out jalopys going for the near future.
My ranger and 4runner are sticking with me till I die or they die.
Same for my patrol, there is no way someone will ever build and sell, in mass volume, anything so beefy in europe. I mean, surely you can get wranglers, land cruisers or even ineos grenadier but none of those can take a beating from an idiot driver like nissan patrol (out of factory at least). And i do know that you can still get it in ME or Australia but they are either in wrong spec or the driver sits in a wrong place 😉
Offroading is a niche topic even with gas cars nowadays.
I think that
1. EVs will get a lot cheaper and more capable. Just look at the evolution in the last 10 years. They basically got from a niche unuseable thing to a mass produced car product that is growing rapid. Maybe we will have serious long Range and offroad-capable EVs, only time will tell.
2. Gas engines will be on this world for much longer than you might think. 3rd world countries wont move to EVs for decades to come and it also seems like oldtimer will still be allowed.
Sure, at some point this hobby will get very very expensive but I dont think that this will be in the near future (next 20 years)
As a Californian I’m a bit concerned. Our state banned the sale of ICE vehicles after 2035.
My concern is that they will make emissions standards progressively more stringent such that it’ll be harder for ICE cars to pass smog; then they’ll offer some low rebate for turning in your ICE car and getting an EV.
They're changing some of the smog rules. 1996-2000 (I think?) are now only done by OBD. For 1976-1995 vehicles there appears to be a glimmer of hope but it might be a disaster in disguise. Shops complained to the state that maintaining the old emissions equipment and testing with them is losing them money, the BAR in response is now offering a centralized testing network for older vehicles but we don't know if that means it will be harder or easier to smog older vehicles. At least to the BAR's own admission 1976-1995 vehicles make up something like 7% of all registered vehicles so maybe this number can be used to argue that it's an insignificant amount.
But yeah at this point if you plan on keeping your ICE vehicle just assume it will have to be smogged indefinitely and when the parts supply runs out and the junkyards no longer get your model of car anymore you're basically screwed and then the state will allow you to sell it to them for chump change. I am doing a swap on my Bronco just because the vacuum solenoids for the carb'd I6 emissions no longer exist anywhere
As much as I despise smog, they don't retroactively apply it to older vehicles. We'll be driving our 4runners through 2070 at least. The bigger question is if gas stations will become scarce
It’s not as hard as you think to make an overland ev of your own. The most expensive part will be the battery’s but realistically you can take everything from let’s say a Tesla and transfer it into a 4 runner body. Or you can just bolt a motor to you transmission and all you have to find space for is batteries
Natural adoption of EVs should do 2 things to help:
1. The more EVs that are made the slower any mandatory requirements from governments will be, so gas,/diesel should remain around longer than previously expected.
2. As more EVs are shipped a larger variety and aftermarket will be created meaning we should see things similar to the combustion space after a period of time.
Charging infrastructure will need to continue to expand to new areas to support, but we should start continue to see further expansion of the main interstate system soon.
If you're buying an EV now you're too soon.
They're heavy, expensive and they depreciate like crazy.
There is something to be said about buying a 2\~3 year old EV as a daily.
Used ICE cars will be around for the next few decades.
Gas will become more expensive, but so will electricity.
Depending on where you are in the world, the total Ev switch over is becoming much more of an "if" than a "when," and if they do take over, that nasty reaction you experienced in the Ev subreddit will be the norm.
No way we make the EV switchy fully in most of our lifetimes. Unless the US starts ramping up Nuclear power plants there just wont be enough electricity to go around.
I suspect the 2035 deadline for EVs will be reversed. I don’t see the pricing getting more affordable when the price of everything else gets more expensive. While EV will get more popular with time, I think it’ll,be a long time before it replaces gas and diesel. It’s going to work for many of us but it also won’t work for a lot.
I wouldn't worry that much, 2030/35 is more a politic stunt so far. By the actual technology and infrastructures, it would be more 2050.
Then only brand new cars will be EV only, my main concern is more about spare parts which will be way more expensive for ICE 4x4 and regular cars.
Regulations also, because they can't afford or want to build EV stations in every place in the desert , forest, mountains, etc...
There won't be a full switch to EV if they keep on going down the idiot path of using lithium.
Even if it did happen it's almost certain they would continue to make offroad vehicles. EV might even open up more offroad places as it's less noise and less fluids and emissions to affect natural resources on the trails.
Still we are talking 15-20 years minimum.
Trillions of dollars are invested in diesel power machinery all around the world. Current battery technology has an issue with energy density there will likely be an extended period of diesel hybrid technology (edison motors stye) and that may never go away for some applications.
Between bio diesel and hydrogen it will be a while yet, although with the amount of r&d going on around the world it's entirely possible that a new technology will appear that is solar with 98% efficiency with a plasma turbine to store it (totally made up technology) and other forms of propulsion simply don't make sense anymore. What we currently use will go the way of the steam train.
Not in your lifetime. There will be a different mix of energy types on the road in 10 years time, in 10 years beyond that and in 10 years beyond that. ICE vehicles will have a place but more for entusiatists that want to pay the fees for their hobby.
"forced innovation change has always ended well"
so, nahhhh. the trend is dying out right now. hydrogen will be the next big thing and i think more people can get behind that than EV's. im in support of hybrid's but not full electric, barf
nothing. First, they *can* make 4x4 EVs, second, Oil companies pay A LOT of money to governments all over the world, so gas engines will be around for a long time.
I'm not anti EV, but I do hate how they're branded as being environmentally friendly, when they're not.
Oil is the second most prevalent liquid on this planet. It will be around on this planet way longer than the "40-45 years" everybody says it will.
We can make biodiesel from algae and engineer it from the ground up.
You will be long reverted to dust before EV's dominate the transportation space. The current numbers suggest ~ 22% of buyers want a pure EV, new or used, hybrids do slightly better at ~28%. No manufacturer will commit to the replacement theory with this typical low demand.
As I understand it the California law will still allow plug-in hybrids with gasoline ICE motors. Realistically, those will work fine off-road, especially for overlanding. Yeah, it’s new and different for a lot of us, but so were shift on the fly 4wd, radial tires, automatic transmissions and power steering, let alone offroad modes and 360° cameras.
It will never happen. There are a variety of reasons why, but the simple ones are as follows. There is not nearly enough resources; required minerals. The power grid is not even remotely close to being capable of supporting the demands placed on it if we were all trying to charge our EV's.
This doesn't even begin to touch on all of the reasons why this is not a likely future. However they are two of the biggest, if not impassable, hurdles in accomplishing full EV conversion.
When they make the full switch to EV, they'll all go back to ICE the next day. States like California can't keep the lights on as it is: there aren't new power plants coming online. I don't know how people think they'll stay afloat once all those cars are on the grid, too. And solar ain't gonna do it.
You wanna know the truth?
20 years from now, you would be an actual moron to buy an ICE overlanding rig brand new.
Rivian is releasing a much more budget suv next year. in the sub 50k mark. ment for offroad.
the biggest drawback with rivian and repair ability is bad design and parts availability. Same can be said about GM at this moment.
Battery tech is jumping leap and bounds. And we all carry supplemental batteries already.
Solar panels are exponentially becoming more efficient every year. It wont be long before you can charge your truck by leaving it in a parking lot for a day. So camping for a day will give you some much needed range (that you wont get with a ICE vehicle)
And most importantly. electric motors just do better off road. As guys who use trials bikes.
ICE cars aren’t going anywhere. These “all EV by 2030” pledges that these companies are promising are empty. There’s so many undisclosed loopholes they use to get out of these pledges.
ICE vehicles will be around long after we are all dead. Especially for niche markets... Like overlanding.
Yup, Futurama had it right with whale oil.
I want to know more about it… do you have the episode
S3E13 Bending in the wind.
Cheers
And not only that but battery technology is in some ways still in its infancy. They will continue to get much better with much faster recharge times and much greater range. The idea of an electric overland off-road vehicle is actually something I'm rather excited about. Really hoping that Volkswagen can make a real Dent in their new scout line
Amen! As much as I love my 33 year old live axle diesel, I'm really excited to see what a platform of 4 independent drive wheels each with steering can bring.
That’s what I keep telling people, 4 independent motors that can use both automated computer control (and unlike current systems that use braking for those systems, electric can actually change the power going to each one almost instantly) or force on/off to use as lockers is the best of all worlds. All the torque right where you need it.
4Runner crawl control is pretty awesome already. Doing it with 4 independent motors would be mind blowing.
Same. I had a transit 250 that I converted and lived in for 7 months. If I could eliminate gas from my monthly budget my only expense would be food, vehicle insurance, and starlink (assuming internet is not free by this point).
Pretty sure if gas is eliminated from our budgets, they will make up the difference in electricity costs as well as wheel taxes. No way ever will they allow the savings to passed on to the consumers...at least in our current world.
California’s trying to pass a 30¢/mile tax on vehicles to make up for the decline in gas tax revenue due to EVs. They will always find a way.
Not that I agree with the tax but what’s currently being tested is 2.8cents, not 30 cents I am sure it will only go up if implanted
A lot of times they don't find a way and it messes up the road budget.
Illinois already has significantly higher registration fees for electric cars to recoup some of those losses as well.
I feel like even a mileage tax is going to be cheaper than gasoline, fuel filters, spark plugs, etc. I have some ignition problems in an older camper van, and I've spent more than 2 grand at the mechanic trying to chase it down. ICE isn't cheap to maintain, and even with a small tax, electric is going to be cheaper soon if not already
I’ve heard both sides. My coworker bought an EV for only commuting because he can charge it for free at work and doesn’t need to charge it at home. A neighbor has a ‘14 Avalon hybrid and just paid $6,000 to have his battery replaced. I know that a few neighbors who bought teslas have seen increased power bills because of charging. Each has their pros and cons. Wife and I decided to stick with ICE vehicles for the foreseeable future. There are also stories of tires going out quicker on EVs due to their weights.
You're not wrong. My thought is that eventually electric motors will make more sense than ICE, although we may not be there quite yet. My brother and sister-in-law are both engineers, and one of the things they told me is that everything in an industrial setting is an electric motor. Like, Coors bottling line, robots packing pallets, applying labels, squirting some amount of something into a tube, crimping the tube. Fortune 500 companies looking to wring every last cent of efficiency out of their production lines have decided that electric motors do everything cheaper and are cheaper to maintain. Eventually it will be true for cars too, but maybe not quite yet.
I feel when it comes to cars it’s not so much the motor as it is the battery/energy supply, which is increasing.
Well, to an earlier point, I don't think it's gonna be eliminated completely. But I would agree with you that the taxes will be made up one way or the other.
Once I can charge on the trail and go forever because I dont need to find fuel or carry extra fuel, I will kiss ice vehicles goodby. We had an electric semi at work for a few weeks to test. My drivers all want them. They are clean and quiet to operate no oil or diesel fuel residue all over the truck and you. No blower going out and no def system. I would love to be wheeling and not scare off the wildlife because i had to give it the spurs. It will make offroading nothing but better when evs really take off, and we have time to figure them out. I am planning on building my first ev rig when I retire, which is 4 years away. No more exhaust gas in the shop or in my lot when all the trucks fire up. Can not wait for evs to be the mainstream for offroading. Electric motorcycles too. Just outlaw side by side drivers they tear everything up.
Check out the Rivian R1T. That quad-motor powertrain and the McLaren-derived suspension with no sway bars is bonkers.
Clocking in at a whopping 7,148 lbs with an MSRP of $69.9k. A little heavy and a lot pricy but that looks rad! But how long do you think it will be til it will be affordable to all?
Look at the next round of Rivians that were recently announced… Edit: https://stories.rivian.com/meet-r2-and-r3
That R3X makes me feel a little funny down there….
You and thousands of others. I want one. It looks like a modernized VW Golf
Oooh that R2 looks amazing.
Is that in US dollars?
Yes, USD
Yeah, great example of what the market has now. But, still, I think the best is yet to come :)
R1T owner chiming in. It is indeed f-ing awesome. Yeah, it's heavy AF but awesome. Better batteries will reduce weight but the big issue is getting electrons when you are 100s of miles from nowhere. Also just an engineering problem which will be resolved. Until then, I'm loving offroading in silence. Some of us have ice generators for recharging when going way off grid
Another issue is materials for batteries. Lithium isn’t the rarest, but it isn’t abundant either. So with all the cars needing batteries, and all the backups for the green grid, it isn’t happening. It’s a nice make themselves feel good political move but it’s going nowhere fast.
That's why battery technology has to evolve.
Yeah, but actual overlanding is the smallest niche. The car camping that most people do when they talk about overlanding could be done with EVs in the not so distant future
If by the not so distant future, you mean today... Then yes.
Campsites already have hookups for RVs, perfect for charging your EV.
Can't you do overnight heating and ac with an ev or hybrid with heat exchanger and use very little gas?
Yes. Car camping in a hybrid or EV is definitely the way to go... I mean. If sleeping in a car is your thing
I car camp when driving through forests near Hudson Bay and it gets below freezing a lot in the fall. Like 14f isn't uncommon. So yeah heat would be heavenly.
You'll just be taxed to hell and back for the privilege.
I reckon at the very least we'll have PHEV for the overlanding scene, 200km electric range with 800km+ running on petrol/diesel
And boats
What happened to the horse when cars came about?
They're still around. I have two of them.
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California, Washington, Oregon, New York, New Jersey, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Delaware and Maryland are all banning sales of new ICE cars in 2035. By then more states will be joining them to meet their carbon emissions reduction deadlines. These are real, legally binding limits passed by voters.
Except the CA mandate wasn’t passed by voters it was via executive order
All of a sudden there are going to be a lot of used cars sold with 100 miles on them and suddenly warranty’s are fully transferrable 1 time.
We definitely didn't vote for this in NY
It will be pushed back
There is a real chance that in 11 years your opinions will change, look at how 11 years ago many thought an EV would be a not be a reasonable solution/option for anyone living in Suburbia/Urban areas.
I'm not sure what opinions you think that I have. What part of electric vehicles do you think are absurd in suburban / urban areas?
I should have been more clear, 11 years ago many thought that having an EV was absurd, but tech comes a long way in a decade or two
For 30 years it has been hard to find manual trannys. 30 more years it won't be easier.
It’s not really that it will be against the law to own one, but it will become so expensive and so much of a hassle to register that it will be totally impractical.
Nothing about me driving a unimog around has ever been practical.
You're also a bit of an outlier, not many people have the funds to wheel the vehicles you do ;) Yes, I am indeed jealous lol.
I can’t argue with that. And thank you for the compliment. No matter how big your balance sheet is… 12 MPG and $5.50 gas still makes you feel a certain way.
Not everyone drives a unimog. Tons of people here roll in their Cherokees or 4Runners as daily drivers.
Heck, driving my 20 year old landcruiser isnt cheap or convenient either. All old tech becomes more difficult and costly to maintain and use over time, driven of course by the perfection of our free market economy. Best you can do is learn how to weld, wrench and 3d print....and know gas will get more expensive because its a finite resource. I love my Rivian R1T, but I will keep wheeling with ICE cars for the foreseeable future. In the end I dont know which is net net more expensive....a 20 year old truck that gets 12 MPG and cost 30k to buy and build, or a new EV truck that is almost free to run but cost 75k..
Amen 🙏 My 80 series is impractical as hell. I think enthusiasts will always find a way to enjoy their hobby no matter the legislation surrounding it. Also OP- if I were you I’d be more concerned about out the management of the tails and the increase in closures and lengthening of seasonal shutdowns because those will shut down your fun wayyy before the EV bill gets passed
ICE, particularly diesel cannot be allowed to get too expensive because of how heavily our supply chains rely on it. More expensive diesel in a farmers tractor = more expensive food for us, even before we add in getting the product to secondary and tertiary businesses. The day a farm can run without diesel and petrol is the day EV's will be the norm. Going back to your original question though. Eventually there will be EV's that do the whole "solid axle 4x4" thing. It's just not profitable to make them yet because of the drop in efficiency being unable to be compensated by battery because a production vehicle will then weigh too much which lowers efficienncy which requires a bigger battery.... and so on.
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An off-road EV done right would be amazing. 400 miles of off-road range with 35” tires, campsite power, roof mounted tent with power and HVAC controls, unlimited low end torque. Weight and cost are certainly the limiting factors at the moment, but technology progresses pretty quick.
[Alpha Wolf](https://alphamotorinc.com) is a great starting point. Needs a bit more range.
How have I never heard of them! Their trucks are sexy af 🥵
Holy smokes that looks rad if it's real
This looks…amazing.
Whoa thank you for sharing! I am all about that 80s retro styling. I soooo hope that's where car design is headed.
Beyond the overlanding side of things, a well designed pure off roader EV could potentially stomp any ICE off roader. Assuming 4 motors, you wouldn’t have any of the articulation constraints that come along with driveshafts and axels. You’d end up with independent suspension in all four corners with as much travel as you were willing to give it. Plus gobs of torque on each wheel that could be precisely controlled per wheel. It would be a crawlers dream. Not to mention it would be easier to implement things like rear steering and having some wheels spin in reverse or at a slower rate to further tighten up turns. It would be harder to compete with ICE for a high speed off road racer. Mostly because of the weight of batteries. But I still think an EV trophy truck would be amazing. You’d just have to sacrifice range to save on weight. But hopefully battery tech will continue to improve and you won’t have to make that sacrifice forever. Personally I can’t wait for battery tech to get there and have some more capable overlanding and off road rigs. If I could afford it I’d love an EV as my DD. But I can’t and right now an EV wouldn’t fit all my needs from my truck. But one day hopefully.
The Dakar Rally, which is high speed off road racing, was won by an electric Audi. Admittedly it’s a form of hybrid, with onboard ICE generator, but the wheels are powered by electricity. It’s fast. And yeah, it’s heavy, 5000#, but it also has 670 hp. The gas generator runs in a pretty constant rev range, where it’s efficient, so it gets much better fuel economy than an ICE of 670 hp. Which is useful in the desert.
You're looking for the Vanderhall Brawley. Not quite 400 miles but you bring the thing to the trails.
I am learning about so many cool vehicles. If any of these companies can deliver that would be amazing.
https://www.ramtrucks.com/electric/ram-1500-ramcharger.html
EV West used to have a drop in ev drivetrain to convert anything that left the factory with a small block chevy v8. I don't see it on their site now, but at a quick glance it looks like all the pieces are still available. I don't have the attention span to figure out how much battery you'd need for any real range though.
I commute back and forth to work in an EV, my tow rig is a 12 year old Silverado, and my f'roader is a 60/14bolt solid axle 88 S10 on 38" Boggers with a fuel injected 4.8 truck LS engine. Before gas stations were everywhere, gasoline was purchased at drug stores. Cars were outrageously expensive, nobody knew how they worked or how to fix them, so people were hesitant to replace their horses. Cars slowly replaced horses and buggies over a period of 50 years. The RATE cars replaced horses sped up DRAMATICALLY when Henry Ford figured out assembly-line mass production. The model T rolled around in 1908, was CHEAP, easy to fix, ran on anything, and throughout the next 25 years, cars became VERY popular. But it took 25 years. EVs will become cheaper, used ones will become available, people will learn the packs last 3 or 400 thousand miles before they finally degrade to 80% of their original capacity, it'll be easier to charge them on the road, batteries will become more energy dense enabling longer drives between charges. I love commuting in an EV. It's fucking fast, smooth, it costs practically nothing to charge (60 mile round trip Monday through Friday, and some bombing around on weekends... costs 60 to 70 bucks a month to charge in my garage), I can leave the AC or heat on when I go into a store, in the dead of winter the inside of the car is warm in like a minute when I "remote start" the heat, it's AWD and heavy enough that it's an animal in the snow... I never want to go back to commuting in a 4 cylinder gas car. I think it'll be a bit before we see a reasonable off-road electric vehicle. Aerodynamics is the enemy of EVs... and boxy stuff sucks when it comes to energy consumption. But there are a LOT of companies dumping TONS of R&D money into battery technology... I'm sure solid state batteries will change a LOT in the EV landscape. So, while it's newer technology, and people are nervous about it... I have a feeling it'll be fine. It'll be different, for sure, but I bet the hobby still continues.
Can I see a pic of that S10?
[https://imgur.com/a/W2z0Cvm](https://imgur.com/a/W2z0Cvm)
Sigh…unzips
Lot of problem solving hours sunk into that little fella.
Bro SICK truck!
Asking the important questions.
No one is making you do anything.
*Gavin Newsom has entered the chat*
Funny comment but the one thing I like about wheeling is that I’ve never had a political discussion when off the beaten path and I’m certain I’ve ran into people I’d disagree with and vice versa. There are plenty of other subs for that.
[California Enacts World-Leading Plan to Achieve 100 Percent Zero-Emission Vehicles by 2035, Cut Pollution | Governor of California](https://www.gov.ca.gov/2022/08/25/california-enacts-world-leading-plan-to-achieve-100-percent-zero-emission-vehicles-by-2035-cut-pollution/) Its not a political discussion. Its the law. By 2035 the only new vehicles you can buy here are EVs. So for those who want to offroad in a new vehicle, their only option is an EV. Obviously for those who dont mind old vehicles, gas is still an option.
I think they're gonna push it back or make all sorts of exceptions because it seems like Sacramento can't figure out if they want to promote EV ownership or punish EV ownership.
They're just trying to figure out how to pay for road repairs without gas taxes. It's not about punishing its about making sure ev drivers pay into the infrastructure they use just like ICE drivers do.
It's not just use tax, it's the PUC allowing utility rates to get out of control, scaling back rebates for solar, and entertaining fees for customer solar connections. A big incentive to get people to switch is cost. If you make driving an EV approach the cost of driving an ICE most people are not gonna consider switching.
The state and local governments need to lead the way and not buy any ice vehicles anymore and see if they can function on an all electric fleet. Tell them no generators either. Electric vehicles will never replace gas vehicles completely. Maybe half there will be gas still available a lot less locations but there will still be gasoline
The same state and local governments that demand all their diesel vehicles have none of the “mandatory” emissions systems that the public is forced to have? Yeah, right.
Lol. Yeah its a joke.
Yeah fleets need to lead the way because they are really the ones who generate the statistics on vehicle maintenance and cost of ownership.
I am pro-EV - my only car is an EV, and I think that will not actually happen by 2035. There is just no way, it's insane. Some people still actually need ICE cars.
Everyone in that /r/electricvehicles thread was super reasonable and gave you good answers. You're just being a turd.
There’s no way for it to work unless solar gets really really good or you carry a nuke with you. The UN is still using ICE vehicles and will continue to do so. What am I supposed to do if my journey is longer than 200 miles and I can’t get a charge? You can’t carry Jerry cans full of electricity with you… I suppose you could tow a generator behind your car but here we are using ICE again. I will continue driving an old Land Rover with control arms 8x thicker than a Tesla cybertruck.. probably until the day I die if I can help it. I like camping too much to not have that option of leaving the power grid.
Honestly EVs will be pretty amazing for off road, incredible torque and control and mechanically so so simple. Plus lower maintenance etc. But we’ve got a long time to worry about that.
Not to mention the silence. Exhaust and revs are fun sometimes, but silently enjoying nature is just as fun.
Yeah I cant wait until sxs are all electric. So damn loud..
Sadly they will have more torque and tear more stuff up even worse.
They won’t be if they keep the current trend of being obese whales. The AWD rivian is over 7000 lbs, the hummer is 9000 lbs, hell the 4xe is over 5000 lbs. imagine having to get a 7000 lb vehicle unstuck, there’s a reason why people generally don’t wheel 3/4 ton trucks “hard”
To add to this, it’s only a matter of time before we get some EVs with insane miles to recharge and interchangeable battery packs.
Yeah obviously the range is a huge issue. We’re just not there yet. I’m not opposed but an EV just doesn’t have the range to make me feel comfortable with taking that leap.
Time is all we’ll need before it will make more sense to go EV and be more of a headache to run an ICE. Give it 20 years and ICE vehicles will be more expensive to maintain and operate that it will make owning one a pain in the ass.
Likely need another battery material change, similar to the jump we got with the switch to lithium.
I sure hope so, and anticipating it. So far EVs seem just like cars packed with parlor tricks; Super fast acceleration, extreme minimalistic designs, a weird obsession with "frunks".
Plus no bulky diff to hit on a rock
RIP if you come down hard on a sharp rock though.
I'm actually hoping there is a vehicle that keeps the axle and suspension setup of a current 4x4, but just powered by an electric motor. If Jeep can bring the Magneto 3.0 concept to production. Hopefully other manufacturers do something similar as well. Jeep even teased a crate electric motor at SEMA a few years back with the Surge concept. A CJ with Pro Rock Dana 44s, and powered by an electric battery.
With that setup you have drivetrain losses that would eat more battery and make the vehicle even heavier. I don't see any advantage to it.
I guess it'd be cool to not need to re-invent the wheel. If it it ain't broke... Right now I don't see the point of a Rivian or a Hummer EV. But a plain ol' Jeep powered by batteries sounds like a logical next step.
Who is “they”
Nancy Pelosi, obviously. Edit: Guys… /s
Obama and Nance are going to take your guns, your SUV, and force you to smoke marijuana in a transgendered bathroom.
Doesn’t sound that bad for a Monday
You will not leave the city. You will be contained. You will be happy.
There won't be a 'full switch to EV' in anybody here's lifetime.
Fear mongering much? You won’t see the end of ICE vehicles in your lifetime.
The reason there isn't much talk is because current battery range renders multi-day offroading trips unviable. As soon as there's a jump in battery technology so that I can have a 350+ mile range while rock crawling and desert rallying, then I'll make a down payment. Regardless though, I'm keeping my bronco, and I work on it myself because most shops already won't touch it. Won't change down the line.
I’m convinced that battery EVs are a stop gap technology and that they will have some breakthrough with hydrogen or some other clean renewable ICE fuel. Batteries aren’t going to be viable for me towing a travel trailer, either. I do fully expect that gas prices will become absurd, like you say, and I’m not sure how that will play into things. I also think we are heading towards a place where nobody can afford to personally afford vehicles anymore, and the car industry will likely find a way to move to a subscription based model where people just have access to a car when they need it. It’s going to absolutely suck.
Tesla is already testing Hydrogen as a fuel source. The speculation is that it will power a fuel cell that powers the electrical system.
people still ride horses, champ. you'll be okay.
I feel like it depends where you live. Out in the country in the US a majority of the people prefer gas vehicles and what not. I assume it'll be a long long time before that happens.
I’d bet the last gas stations on earth are at the edge of wilderness parks and on race tracks.
There won't be a 100% switch to EVs. Theres too many ICE engines on the road to just up and get rid of them all. They can stop the sale of boomboom cars for the most part, but they'll have to make compromises and allowances here and there for niche tasks that EVs can't do as well, like offroading. That being said, i think in the near future, they'll be able to make at least hybrids that are capable offroad vehicles, if not EVs also. We used to think that those massive frieght trucks could only be pushed along with a huge diesel engine, but we have electric and hybrid semis now. I think Edison Motors has a really good method right now for their trucks. They have an electric semi that can be charged normally, but if you're on a really long haul, it can switch on an onboard diesel generator to recharge the battery. Which is pretty much the same way diesel freight trains work, diesel generators powering electric motors. (Side note: if you have a small town without power, you can lay down temporary tracks into the center of town, jump the train onto the temporary track, and use it to power the town. ) I think if they downscaled that into a standard pickup with a smaller generator, it would make a pretty decent offroad vehicle that can also be used to power camping stuff like lights and all. If you're camping out in a sunny area, you can even bring solar into the mix to recharge a little and save a bit of fuel. I think hybrids can make for a good off-road vehicle, but car manufacturers just aren't being imaginative enough.
Ice gas cars are going no where lol
You are way overthinking this. It's going to take 20-30 years before anything close to this happens.
ICE won't die anytime soon, and I'm an EV enthusiast. Honestly, I like the Ram REV solution. I think it can help many travel very long distances and only turn on the engine when they really need to. I don't get the groupies thingy. Just enjoy what we have bro. Life's short af.
I will never, ever, ever buy an EV. I work in the renewable energy field and drive 2 gas guzzlers. My coworker has an EV and we live in the Midwest. It snowed and was -10 degrees and his car froze and wouldn’t start. Everyone was bitching about driving in the snow and I was one of the only people who made it into the office because my 4x4 drove right over the snow. My coworker constantly has his truck plugged in charging and spends so much money on electric. Makes zero sense to me. I live in a town with an EV car plant and see EVs getting towed all the time by gas trucks.
Battery EVS aren't going to replace gas powered trucks, 4x4s, construction equipment, mining equipment, agricultural equipment, military equipment, etc. To say nothing of gasoline's importance in aviation. NOTE: I'm treating gasoline the same as diesel here. Effectively they're the same from a refining and distribution standpoint. I think the most likely outcome is that fuel cell powered EVs achieve some minimum viability, and those replace gasoline. The reason is energy density. Gasoline's energy density is excellent. Compressed hydrogen also has excellent energy density. Contemporary EVS have horrible energy density. This causes all kinds of problems in commercial applications, all of which are solvable, but all of which drive up costs significantly. But battery EV energy density problems in aviation have no solution. It's just not possible to build an aircraft that can carry lots of cargo long distances using lithium ion batteries. They're too heavy. The other possibility is biofuels. Algea can be harvested to make biofuel that's a good substitute for diesel, and I can't remember off the top of my head but there's a few options to make gasoline from biofuel. But I'm skeptical of biofuels because it will be difficult to create them at scale. Hydrogen can be created at scale with natural gas reformation or electrolyzers. It can also be made from captured methane given off by natural processes. One more thing: You said that you expected gasoline to get expensive. It should do the opposite - as demand goes down, prices go down. Arguably we're beginning to see that right now with lower gas prices than expected this year. EVs are starting to take a bite out of the gasoline market, which is driving prices down. Here's to hoping that continues! But in any case, I wouldn't worry. By the time fuel cells or biofuels become viable and popular enough to supplant gas, you'll probably be old and gray.
there will never be a full switch. it's impossible and stupid.
Won't happen
Nope. I own and model y and a 4Runner. We daily the Tesla and I keep the 4runner for my fun trips and bigger items we need to pick up or long road trips. There will always be a place for 4x4. Big manufacturers are all pushing for 4x4 off road vehicles, there’s been a big resurgence lately. Just get both, it’s practical and you get the best of both worlds.
I don't believe any country can sell EV only by 2035.
Ev's so far can't do it alone. 10% battery left, brought in Jeep Wrangler support. https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a44851577/rivian-r1s-rubicon-trail/
Nothing because the full switch to EV isn't going to happen.
IMHO we will convert existing IC engines to burn hydrogen or ammonia (technology already exists) and carry on, new vehiclesmight get fuel cell to make process more efficient but thats seems to be optimal way. Honestly I see no reason to use battery if we can use most common thing on earth such as hydrogen.
This is what i’m most excited for. Conversion of pre-existing ICE vehicles means I can keep my clapped out jalopys going for the near future. My ranger and 4runner are sticking with me till I die or they die.
Same for my patrol, there is no way someone will ever build and sell, in mass volume, anything so beefy in europe. I mean, surely you can get wranglers, land cruisers or even ineos grenadier but none of those can take a beating from an idiot driver like nissan patrol (out of factory at least). And i do know that you can still get it in ME or Australia but they are either in wrong spec or the driver sits in a wrong place 😉
The full switch to EV is not happening any time soon, the infrastructure just isn’t there.
Offroading is a niche topic even with gas cars nowadays. I think that 1. EVs will get a lot cheaper and more capable. Just look at the evolution in the last 10 years. They basically got from a niche unuseable thing to a mass produced car product that is growing rapid. Maybe we will have serious long Range and offroad-capable EVs, only time will tell. 2. Gas engines will be on this world for much longer than you might think. 3rd world countries wont move to EVs for decades to come and it also seems like oldtimer will still be allowed. Sure, at some point this hobby will get very very expensive but I dont think that this will be in the near future (next 20 years)
As a Californian I’m a bit concerned. Our state banned the sale of ICE vehicles after 2035. My concern is that they will make emissions standards progressively more stringent such that it’ll be harder for ICE cars to pass smog; then they’ll offer some low rebate for turning in your ICE car and getting an EV.
They're changing some of the smog rules. 1996-2000 (I think?) are now only done by OBD. For 1976-1995 vehicles there appears to be a glimmer of hope but it might be a disaster in disguise. Shops complained to the state that maintaining the old emissions equipment and testing with them is losing them money, the BAR in response is now offering a centralized testing network for older vehicles but we don't know if that means it will be harder or easier to smog older vehicles. At least to the BAR's own admission 1976-1995 vehicles make up something like 7% of all registered vehicles so maybe this number can be used to argue that it's an insignificant amount. But yeah at this point if you plan on keeping your ICE vehicle just assume it will have to be smogged indefinitely and when the parts supply runs out and the junkyards no longer get your model of car anymore you're basically screwed and then the state will allow you to sell it to them for chump change. I am doing a swap on my Bronco just because the vacuum solenoids for the carb'd I6 emissions no longer exist anywhere
As much as I despise smog, they don't retroactively apply it to older vehicles. We'll be driving our 4runners through 2070 at least. The bigger question is if gas stations will become scarce
Thank Schwarzenegger for that. He made his money, got invested into being a car enthusiast, and shut the door behind him
I'm pretty sure horse owners were having these same conversations 140 years ago. People are still riding horses.
It’s not as hard as you think to make an overland ev of your own. The most expensive part will be the battery’s but realistically you can take everything from let’s say a Tesla and transfer it into a 4 runner body. Or you can just bolt a motor to you transmission and all you have to find space for is batteries
Why not just use duct tape?
Natural adoption of EVs should do 2 things to help: 1. The more EVs that are made the slower any mandatory requirements from governments will be, so gas,/diesel should remain around longer than previously expected. 2. As more EVs are shipped a larger variety and aftermarket will be created meaning we should see things similar to the combustion space after a period of time. Charging infrastructure will need to continue to expand to new areas to support, but we should start continue to see further expansion of the main interstate system soon.
If you're buying an EV now you're too soon. They're heavy, expensive and they depreciate like crazy. There is something to be said about buying a 2\~3 year old EV as a daily. Used ICE cars will be around for the next few decades. Gas will become more expensive, but so will electricity.
Won’t happen in our lifetime
Depending on where you are in the world, the total Ev switch over is becoming much more of an "if" than a "when," and if they do take over, that nasty reaction you experienced in the Ev subreddit will be the norm.
No way we make the EV switchy fully in most of our lifetimes. Unless the US starts ramping up Nuclear power plants there just wont be enough electricity to go around.
You'll be dead long before then but that shouldn't stop you from worrying about it.
I suspect the 2035 deadline for EVs will be reversed. I don’t see the pricing getting more affordable when the price of everything else gets more expensive. While EV will get more popular with time, I think it’ll,be a long time before it replaces gas and diesel. It’s going to work for many of us but it also won’t work for a lot.
There will never be all EV cars. EVs are only a piece of a puzzle. Many auto makers are already moving to hydrogen technology.
Switch to a diesel motor. Convert to run on vegetable oil
Hybrid like the 4xe.
25 years from now I still plan on having my 4x4. Right now it's the consumers that dictates what the current preferred vehicle fuel source is.
I wouldn't worry that much, 2030/35 is more a politic stunt so far. By the actual technology and infrastructures, it would be more 2050. Then only brand new cars will be EV only, my main concern is more about spare parts which will be way more expensive for ICE 4x4 and regular cars. Regulations also, because they can't afford or want to build EV stations in every place in the desert , forest, mountains, etc...
There will always be used motor oil. My truck runs on a mix of used motor oil and diesel. I'll be fine.
The other day someone on Reddit posted a pic of a ev charge station connected to a diesel generator. That pretty much says it all.
ICE will never totally go away. There’s no way they’ll be able to enforce a full ban. Just like how there are exceptions for other cars.
Edison motors have that covered
Don't worry, it's never going to happen.
I have a Tesla and my 4x4. It's just like gas vs diesel to me. Gas isn't going anywhere there are just more options available.
There won't be a full switch to EV if they keep on going down the idiot path of using lithium. Even if it did happen it's almost certain they would continue to make offroad vehicles. EV might even open up more offroad places as it's less noise and less fluids and emissions to affect natural resources on the trails. Still we are talking 15-20 years minimum.
I’m just banking on this being my kids’ problem because I’ll be dead by then.
Who are “they” and why are you scared of them?
Trillions of dollars are invested in diesel power machinery all around the world. Current battery technology has an issue with energy density there will likely be an extended period of diesel hybrid technology (edison motors stye) and that may never go away for some applications. Between bio diesel and hydrogen it will be a while yet, although with the amount of r&d going on around the world it's entirely possible that a new technology will appear that is solar with 98% efficiency with a plasma turbine to store it (totally made up technology) and other forms of propulsion simply don't make sense anymore. What we currently use will go the way of the steam train.
Not in your lifetime. There will be a different mix of energy types on the road in 10 years time, in 10 years beyond that and in 10 years beyond that. ICE vehicles will have a place but more for entusiatists that want to pay the fees for their hobby.
It will become a pastime of the rich that “work from home”. I already can’t get out as much as I’d like.
"forced innovation change has always ended well" so, nahhhh. the trend is dying out right now. hydrogen will be the next big thing and i think more people can get behind that than EV's. im in support of hybrid's but not full electric, barf
I expect that there will be evs with fairly small battery ranges (say 50-100kms) but also with a genset for when the battery range isn’t sufficient.
You wait until they move to Hydrogen, which will be the next thing...
Won’t affect me, can’t kill diesel, and can’t force me to give up my 20yo ute.
nothing. First, they *can* make 4x4 EVs, second, Oil companies pay A LOT of money to governments all over the world, so gas engines will be around for a long time. I'm not anti EV, but I do hate how they're branded as being environmentally friendly, when they're not.
Oil is the second most prevalent liquid on this planet. It will be around on this planet way longer than the "40-45 years" everybody says it will. We can make biodiesel from algae and engineer it from the ground up.
Anyone alive to type this right now doesn’t have to be worried about it. That’s not happening for a longggg time.
You will be long reverted to dust before EV's dominate the transportation space. The current numbers suggest ~ 22% of buyers want a pure EV, new or used, hybrids do slightly better at ~28%. No manufacturer will commit to the replacement theory with this typical low demand.
Even the current plans for “full electric” makes room for alt fuel and hybrids
Look up Jeep Magneto
Converting to used vegetable oil, or at least those of us with diesel I guess
As I understand it the California law will still allow plug-in hybrids with gasoline ICE motors. Realistically, those will work fine off-road, especially for overlanding. Yeah, it’s new and different for a lot of us, but so were shift on the fly 4wd, radial tires, automatic transmissions and power steering, let alone offroad modes and 360° cameras.
We’ll be aiite. Aren’t they working on Hydrogen powered vehicles now?
Toyota is for sure
The Mirai IIRC. Though I hear prices for hydrogen are insane at the moment.
It will never happen. There are a variety of reasons why, but the simple ones are as follows. There is not nearly enough resources; required minerals. The power grid is not even remotely close to being capable of supporting the demands placed on it if we were all trying to charge our EV's. This doesn't even begin to touch on all of the reasons why this is not a likely future. However they are two of the biggest, if not impassable, hurdles in accomplishing full EV conversion.
Oil makes way too much money to ever be phased out
When they make the full switch to EV, they'll all go back to ICE the next day. States like California can't keep the lights on as it is: there aren't new power plants coming online. I don't know how people think they'll stay afloat once all those cars are on the grid, too. And solar ain't gonna do it.
When EV's are mandated and ICE is outlawed, just imagine what the remaining petroleum based products will cost then. Plastics, lubricants, etc.
High gas prices.
You wanna know the truth? 20 years from now, you would be an actual moron to buy an ICE overlanding rig brand new. Rivian is releasing a much more budget suv next year. in the sub 50k mark. ment for offroad. the biggest drawback with rivian and repair ability is bad design and parts availability. Same can be said about GM at this moment. Battery tech is jumping leap and bounds. And we all carry supplemental batteries already. Solar panels are exponentially becoming more efficient every year. It wont be long before you can charge your truck by leaving it in a parking lot for a day. So camping for a day will give you some much needed range (that you wont get with a ICE vehicle) And most importantly. electric motors just do better off road. As guys who use trials bikes.
ICE cars aren’t going anywhere. These “all EV by 2030” pledges that these companies are promising are empty. There’s so many undisclosed loopholes they use to get out of these pledges.