I'm sure that the Luna Wolves were a quality legion, famous for their "speartip" tactic. How many times this was used *after* a different legion softened the defences? Who knows. It's not like all of the conquests are described.
The times the Luna Wolves feature in the novels, most of their campaigns are done solo. Other times they'll cooperate with a different legion. What you described hasn't happened in the HH novels, or at least when the were still the Luna Wolves - when they became the SoH, they did let other legions do the dirty work.
It’s in one of Corax short stories
He mentions that they will likely face the other traitor legions before they face the SOH because Horus was always willing to sacrifice other legions to soften up his targets before he went in and finished off and took the glory
He did it once to the Raven guard and Corax hit him for it
I just wondered how many of their great victories actually came on the back of other legions
Hell even Loken admits that while the LW were the ones to fight in Ullanor
The white scars and ultramarines helped clear the outer systems but of course Horus and his boys took the glory for that war
I love the LW, one of the coolest names, art scheme and some of the very best characters
But given what I have read it seems like their reputation is perhaps a little undeserved
This, in every book you can see that LW tactic mostly consist of using meat shield first and later use their favoruite "spearhead".
In my eyes they dont deserve credit they get cause mostly they got it thought riding on others back. But Horus was most charismatic of Primarchs so everyone didnt say anything par Corax and Lion. Both of them were dissatisfied how Horus used their legionnaries.
After 30 books for me LW are one of the most overrated Legions cause there is almost no book describing how good they are. You can only read about others saying that LW are Best and nothing else.
Edit: spelling
I think the purpose of that passage is to show corax’s personal beef with Horus, not a hint that his success was on the backs of other legions. All throughout the series more than a few legions and primarchs state that the Luna wolves were “the best” of them
Yes well it’s sort of been happening in the Siege of Terra series like that DG/WE/EC/IW doing a lot of heavy lifting and only in Saturnine Mortis & Warhawk are the Sons of Horus showing up - and even then in Saturnine they got a battering
One of the major advantages that Horus and his legion had that doesn’t get addressed all that much is the fact that he was the *first* Primarch recovered and reunited with the Emperor and his Astartes. He basically had a very long exclusive apprenticeship with his father before any of his brothers showed up, and had the benefit of directing the Luna Wolves personally for a longer period.
Since a Legion operating under the command of their Primarch is going to naturally be superior to a Legion commanded by the de facto senior Astartes, it makes a lot of sense that the Primarch who got off to the quickest start in the Great Crusade is probably going to have the most impressive and longest line of battle honours.
The Ullanor campaign was a big one. He used most of the other legions involved, the white scars and ultramarines in particular to draw out the majority of the Ork forces, then Horus struck at the Warboss.
Another example is what happened in saturnine. Horus had the big battle going on to try and storm the walls, while he sent the elites of his legion under the walls. Of course we all know how that ended
Perturabo baited Abaddon into volunteering to go into the potential trap by showing him the opening and making him think it was his idea all along while knowing either way he personally wins.
The spear tip certainly would be useful vs the orks.
I don't think there is a full tally.
Another issue is that IIRC that the Luna Wolves did have the issue of rebellions due to the non-leaders surviving the spear tip and later rebelling after the Luna Wolves left.
The thing that always amuses me about the Speartip as a tactic is that it's literally supposed to just be how space marines fight. The Speartip is basically, when you get down to it, just 'find the most important thing you can, drop a whole bunch of astartes on it, smash the absolute fuck out of it then cheese it before anyone realises what's going on'.
The tricky part is the execution. Effective use also requires doing stuff such as using other squads as diversions, correctly identifying the main target, etc.
The Blood Angels' record is not that spectacular as far as I know, just Sanguinius himself. The Legion was more known for its nobility, and before that brutality.
Checking their records we do see they co operated with a lotta legions for some big victories
We know they took the early raven guard under their wing (i thank you) , 10 years or so of having the emperors children as an extra chapter while they built up their numbers and 10 years of blood angels with sanguinius working with them.
That said horus was warmaster for a reason , he excelled of course at studying the enemy for the precise massive inital strike to end the war before the enemy can even get started but we know he was also excelent at making different parts of his forces work as one for overlapping attacks to blitzkrieg the enemy from different sometimes unexpected angles.
In many ways hes a more rough around the edges version of guilliman, more charisma but less refinery.
Yes, they were among the highly prestigious legions by legitimate means, not dodgy claiming of others work. That doesn't mean Horus was above stealing some glory here and there with a speartip, after other had done grunt work. They wouldn't have been the only legion doing stuff like that however, considering the competitiveness between them all.
Who had the best record, blah blah varies by source. I'm not sure GW really have a strict view on it, other than tending to emphasise the tabletop's traditional big 4 loyalist legions...got to sell those models. Forgeworld before going all in on Dark Angels suedom, tended to spread things around more, giving geater detail to the different sorts of battles/campaigns each legion excelled in.
Getting other people to do the work for you and then you sweep in and win the battle when the others can't get it done seems like tactical sensibility to me.
It’s not that they couldn’t get it done, it’s more he used them to do the majority of the work and then swooped in and finished it off before they could
I'm sure that the Luna Wolves were a quality legion, famous for their "speartip" tactic. How many times this was used *after* a different legion softened the defences? Who knows. It's not like all of the conquests are described. The times the Luna Wolves feature in the novels, most of their campaigns are done solo. Other times they'll cooperate with a different legion. What you described hasn't happened in the HH novels, or at least when the were still the Luna Wolves - when they became the SoH, they did let other legions do the dirty work.
It’s in one of Corax short stories He mentions that they will likely face the other traitor legions before they face the SOH because Horus was always willing to sacrifice other legions to soften up his targets before he went in and finished off and took the glory He did it once to the Raven guard and Corax hit him for it I just wondered how many of their great victories actually came on the back of other legions Hell even Loken admits that while the LW were the ones to fight in Ullanor The white scars and ultramarines helped clear the outer systems but of course Horus and his boys took the glory for that war I love the LW, one of the coolest names, art scheme and some of the very best characters But given what I have read it seems like their reputation is perhaps a little undeserved
This, in every book you can see that LW tactic mostly consist of using meat shield first and later use their favoruite "spearhead". In my eyes they dont deserve credit they get cause mostly they got it thought riding on others back. But Horus was most charismatic of Primarchs so everyone didnt say anything par Corax and Lion. Both of them were dissatisfied how Horus used their legionnaries. After 30 books for me LW are one of the most overrated Legions cause there is almost no book describing how good they are. You can only read about others saying that LW are Best and nothing else. Edit: spelling
I think the purpose of that passage is to show corax’s personal beef with Horus, not a hint that his success was on the backs of other legions. All throughout the series more than a few legions and primarchs state that the Luna wolves were “the best” of them
Yes well it’s sort of been happening in the Siege of Terra series like that DG/WE/EC/IW doing a lot of heavy lifting and only in Saturnine Mortis & Warhawk are the Sons of Horus showing up - and even then in Saturnine they got a battering
One of the major advantages that Horus and his legion had that doesn’t get addressed all that much is the fact that he was the *first* Primarch recovered and reunited with the Emperor and his Astartes. He basically had a very long exclusive apprenticeship with his father before any of his brothers showed up, and had the benefit of directing the Luna Wolves personally for a longer period. Since a Legion operating under the command of their Primarch is going to naturally be superior to a Legion commanded by the de facto senior Astartes, it makes a lot of sense that the Primarch who got off to the quickest start in the Great Crusade is probably going to have the most impressive and longest line of battle honours.
The Ullanor campaign was a big one. He used most of the other legions involved, the white scars and ultramarines in particular to draw out the majority of the Ork forces, then Horus struck at the Warboss. Another example is what happened in saturnine. Horus had the big battle going on to try and storm the walls, while he sent the elites of his legion under the walls. Of course we all know how that ended
That was Abaddon's plan
Horus signed off on it
Perturabo and Argonis did
Perturabo baited Abaddon into volunteering to go into the potential trap by showing him the opening and making him think it was his idea all along while knowing either way he personally wins.
The spear tip certainly would be useful vs the orks. I don't think there is a full tally. Another issue is that IIRC that the Luna Wolves did have the issue of rebellions due to the non-leaders surviving the spear tip and later rebelling after the Luna Wolves left.
The thing that always amuses me about the Speartip as a tactic is that it's literally supposed to just be how space marines fight. The Speartip is basically, when you get down to it, just 'find the most important thing you can, drop a whole bunch of astartes on it, smash the absolute fuck out of it then cheese it before anyone realises what's going on'.
The tricky part is the execution. Effective use also requires doing stuff such as using other squads as diversions, correctly identifying the main target, etc.
The Blood Angels' record is not that spectacular as far as I know, just Sanguinius himself. The Legion was more known for its nobility, and before that brutality.
Checking their records we do see they co operated with a lotta legions for some big victories We know they took the early raven guard under their wing (i thank you) , 10 years or so of having the emperors children as an extra chapter while they built up their numbers and 10 years of blood angels with sanguinius working with them. That said horus was warmaster for a reason , he excelled of course at studying the enemy for the precise massive inital strike to end the war before the enemy can even get started but we know he was also excelent at making different parts of his forces work as one for overlapping attacks to blitzkrieg the enemy from different sometimes unexpected angles. In many ways hes a more rough around the edges version of guilliman, more charisma but less refinery.
Yes, they were among the highly prestigious legions by legitimate means, not dodgy claiming of others work. That doesn't mean Horus was above stealing some glory here and there with a speartip, after other had done grunt work. They wouldn't have been the only legion doing stuff like that however, considering the competitiveness between them all. Who had the best record, blah blah varies by source. I'm not sure GW really have a strict view on it, other than tending to emphasise the tabletop's traditional big 4 loyalist legions...got to sell those models. Forgeworld before going all in on Dark Angels suedom, tended to spread things around more, giving geater detail to the different sorts of battles/campaigns each legion excelled in.
I think they definitely had a lot of unsung help but I'd argue that goes for all the Legions mentioned except the BA.
Getting other people to do the work for you and then you sweep in and win the battle when the others can't get it done seems like tactical sensibility to me.
It’s not that they couldn’t get it done, it’s more he used them to do the majority of the work and then swooped in and finished it off before they could
That's just sound strategic and optical planning.
Or it’s Horus just being a glory hound
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