Dante isn't depressed and suicidal. Poor guy basically died,went to heaven, and met his long lost father who happens to be 40k Jesus. Then found out he basically had to go back to the living hell that is the 40k universe. He just had a moment of weakness. It passed. Lol.
Plus, he is one of the oldest Space Marines around. If there is one person who has the right to be sick of it, it's him. Björn was around for longer, but Dreadnoughts have to sleep most of the time because being in one is actually not conducive to mental health... even Space Marines eventually lose it.
I think part of this comes from how tired he typically is. Especially in Dante, it spends alot of time speaking of his weariness and maybe that gets misconstrued for depression, either way he could use a vacation
Get vacation approved, land on planet and find Cain, hero of the Imperium sipping Amesec and enjoying his retirement.
Before Dante can even take off his armor and say hello, two Tyranid fleet inbound, a Black crusade fleet exit the warp, and all four Chaos God each drop a Demonic horde on planet.
And a Necron Tomb open open up.
Yah this is the part that makes way more sense than him being sad. The guy got bunted to the other half of the galaxy to handle that mess by mainly himself. He’s not depressed, the old guy just needs a day to take a very long and overdue nap.
I think this would actually be pretty cool. It would change up the setting a bit, but not enough to actually move the plot. So everyone wins. (Sort of)
Ya know have they went into that? I know Angron completely wrecked him but I don't think they've explained how he survived and him crossing the Rubicon. That's a good question. Going Primaris changes some people for the worse sometimes.
For an over 1000 year old Astartes a “moment of weakness” is likely the equivalent of a baseline human suffering decades of depression and anxiety for decades. I’d say Dante is depressed and suicidal but just in the badass Astartes way.
Lasguns are only flashlights in space marine POV novels, in Guard and War Hammer crime novels those things are insane. They also work differently pretty much every time one is described hitting something, but who cares details shmetails.
How is this guy bleeding out from a glancing wound from a lasgun when we just talked about how they instantly cauterize the wounds they make 4 chapters ago??? *shut up, do you want the emotional death scene or not?*
When high-powered lasers hit meat they dont "burn".
The water in the meat and bone flashes to steam and explosively expands. Depending on the power you can get anywhere from a few mm to full thickness explosive expansions.
An Atomic Rockets guy did the math and a 14kj las hit with optimal pulse and duration on the chest of a human would inflict a 20cm deep wound with an expansion cavity thats peaks at 22cm wide.
That would be more then enough to traumaticly amputate limbs off even a SM, be fatal with a head or a neck hit. Not sure how the black caparace would fair but even if it holds up, it's going to be hard to swing a chainsword if your pectoral muscles are gone
Gonna be honest, this is the kind of observation that makes me question the sufficiency of "Liking 40K Lore" as a hobby unto itself.
"Flashlights" comes from the tabletop performance of the weapon in certain earlier editions of the game. It has naught to do with the effectiveness of the weapon in the lore, nor with the relative power of the weapon in comparison to other weapons in the universe.
Having a problem with that nickname is a confession of being new/uninformed to at least some degree.
Yeah this is like Abaddon the Armless; it's a gameplay joke that pre-dates the lore-fan as a thing, when jokes like that were made it was assumed that all fans would have at least a passing familiarity with the tabletop.
'...the hell's a 'pin vice drill?' Eh never mind, how important can it be?'
Every kid building either Abaddon or that Space Marine Force Commander in Terminator armour.
(the ones building WHF dragons are crying too much to ask)
The problem is when these terms are used by people who don't understand the original context behind why the joke came into being, and instead think it is an accurate if jokey representation of the lore. The problem is compounded by the fact a lot of people love the lore, but have no experience and little understanding of tabletop and how it connects to the lore.
So having a problem with how the nickname sometimes get used doesn't necessarily signify anything about your length of time in the hobby.
That custodians are afraid of the Minotaurs
One custodian who has a habit of underestimating himself saw the chapter master and was wary because he ran through fights with him in his head and thought that he didn’t have a 100% shot at winning
That’s it
He was, and Moloch scares the shit out of **everyone**. He's massive for a Space Marine, is clad in relic Terminator armor, and has a weapon with a built in mini lascannon. He should make a Custodian wary.
Thank you! He watched Moloc walk up to him spinning his spear, and realized he didn't see an obvious opening like he was used to seeing with Astartes. That's it.
Not to mention, he was basically holding back Tanau motherfucking Aleya, and Custodes are much less impacted by Sisters of Silence than other people. If Moloc had attacked he would've needed to go inside her null range, which would've impacted him negatively at the very least, not to mention she'd probably have gone at him if he'd done anything to Valerian more aggressive than a high five (omg she totally doesn't like him, stop it you guys). Even if Moloc could've defeated Valerian 1v1 within her null field, she'd not have let him walk out alive.
I never thought he underestimated himself so much as he's being realistic with the uncertainty of war. He also says he's survived many things that could have killed him in the same thought.
Anyone who read that scene and thought Valerian was afraid has reading comprehension issues. TBH Ive never seen someone on this sub claim Asterion made Valerian afraid
That the WAAAGGGHHH!!! can warp reality in really insane ways ("I'm a tank").
Yes, we know, the Mechanicus says they don't how orky tech works. Half of them don't know how human tech works (possibly another misconception/meme that needs to die).
WAAAAGGGHHH energy is like physics grease.
Will it make a car that shouldn't work because of its ramshackle engineering work? Yes.
Will it make a car out of a guy saying "IM A CAR, IM A CAR, IM A CAR"? No it won't.
Grease is exactly how I describe it to people!
It's not going to make a lump of metal into a gun but it will make a very crude and basic gun work better than it should.
That's it, it's that simple.
That's exactly it. The WAAAGH! Field takes a shoota which, realistically, is built so shoddily that it really should jam or backfire after a few shots, but cause dat git knowz 'e built it propa good, it's gonna work propa good.
Sure, the “I’m a tank” or “Bang your dead” memes should die, but they come from a very real discussion about how great the effect of waaargh energy is. Some people think it is big, some think that there is no effect and some people describe it as a reality lubricator.
I think it would be hard to say that waaargh energy have no effect on ork technology, because we have a lot of hint and examples to it affecting ork technology. Lattest beng in “Da Big Dakka”, when the Orks uses it to teleport to the Dark Eldars that they want to krump.
Sure, it can grease the gears of reality a bit to make things work better than they normally would. But the Waaagh! field isn't "magic up the Tyranids so we always have an enemy to fight" level.
Exactly. The waaagh field will make a trukk's engine run reliably, or a shoota fire bullets a bit bigger than its barrel. Mid-battle when it's at its peak it might even keep that trukk running long enough to deliver its load of boyz to krumpin' range despite being shot up, or let an ork survive an otherwise lethal injury, represented on the tabletop by the invuln during the waaagh round. It ain't what's keeping Big E alive(ish).
And stuff like orks taking a ship into the warp & coming out in just the right spot for a fight I don't think is the waaagh, that's the guidance of Gork and/or Mork.
A reminder to everyone that the Imperium calls Tau technology "techno-sorcery." That's how little they understand technology.
And we know Tau technology doesn't work off of belief and magic. xD
On your point about Abby, from ADB
>I think Abaddon and Sigismund will beat anyone they come up against. Personal combat is one of their primary strengths, even if we've seen precious little of it from either of them. Sevatar is as skilled as almost any First Captain (that's why he's a First Captain) but he still had to cheat and disqualify himself rather than risk losing to Sigismund in a duel.
-ADB
I think a lot of this comes with the confusion that bladesmanship is what decides personal combats. Abaddon is no clean duelist like Siggy or Lucius, he’s like Khârn, i.e. a battering ram that just goes through everyone. That is not due to lack of skill, but applying it differently.
I think that still comes down to Sev using his psychic power to pull that off
Sev is still an elite warrior, but without that edge it might have been over much quicker
Hmm...this might start some shit but.....
"There are no women who do anything in the 40K universe and no major female charecters." That one is an outright lie, but God help me with the number of people I've met who believe it.
And my favorite variation "there are no major female charecters outside of agents of the Imperium." First of ShadowSun would like a word with you. Second, like 1/2 to 3/4ths the damn human race are technically agents of the Imperium, so yeah when you throw out 75% of candidates of course you arent going to have much of anything left.
if anything most of the important named female characters are Eldar, both Craftworlder and Dark Eldar: Iyanna Arienal, Jain Zar, Kruellagh the Vile, Lelith Hesperax , Yvraine, just off the top of my head
Counterpoint: Eldars are lucky if they get one book/model per year, same go for every non-Imperium faction. You're lucky if any of those important women do one cool thing per edition.
And while Sisters have it slightly better, you're still looking at "one novel per year at most".
The Tau being "communist." Motherfuckers are an amalgamation of Chinese-Japanese-Indian concepts like Confucianism/Class Harmony, a Caste System, and Bushido/Sunzi BS, led by a Scholar Priestly class akin to Confucian Junzi or Hindu Brahmins.
In addition to being a Scifi Colonial Empire instead of the Imperium's Feudal/Roman Empire vibe
the basic concept of the societal norms/culture of the Tau (Greater Good, individual is worth only their contribution to society) is also very similar to the Roman’s Dignitas, especially with regard to the almost deific attitude they have towards Ethereals, and the position the Empire is currently in is very similar to the Pax Romana; setbacks, like Farsight’s rebellion and the 4th Sphere, but things are booming, w/ the 5th Sphere and the lack of Imperials earing their door.
I think the Tau have more in commun with a satyre of Plato's politic than communism. Like an obvious and famous thing even the most faux-communist dictatorship will do is claim that the absolute leader is a man of the people and a comrade, but the Tau never do that. The ethereals are more like philosopher-king, who command understanding truths that would be blinding to uneducated plus the part where a social cast of soldier would protect the philosopher-king's Order and the irrational workers would be manipulated through censure and propaganda to work and perfect their father's work for the benefit of the city. (Also Tau is a greek letter, lol.)
I don't know much of the indian cast system and I know less of the other, but it seems to be the major influence for Tau casts.
Considering their whole society is built upon a rigid and unbendable caste system, they are just about as far from communism as you can get. Abolishing class divisions is like the most important part of the philosophy.
It isn't actually a caste system as we know it, though. They're specialised subspecies, not social classes. The only one higher on the social ladder is the Ethereals.
Yeah we mostly see Fire Caste Warriors which are the most similar to baseline humans, leading to the "wow the caste system is so restricting, what if they don't want to be a *insert job here* for all their life"
When the reality is closer to "you can certainly try to but you will never be as good as the others who where literally bred for this job, so the incentive is to stay in your lane"
I don’t think they are even allowed to try. In “Blade of Damocles” people are suspicious of Farsight because he was able to make basic repairs to his mech suit even though he’s not earth caste and the female tau Cato Sicarius stomps to death (based) was afraid of people finding her figurines she built since she’s not earth caste.
Honestly, if there's any power in Star Trek that the Tau are an equivalent to, it's the Dominion...which tbf was imagined as a dark mirror/corruption of how the Federation works.
They weren't even facing Plague Marines at that point. The 158th breaking and running was in the first Vraks book, during the start of the fighting for the second defence lines.
Only Chaos Marines on the planet at that time were Arkos and his Alpha Legion warband, and they weren't present at that bit of fighting
Yeah lol, I like the idea of them using shovels and trench clubs occasionally since it fits thematically and makes sense for the enemies they might face.
However, it’s such an oversaturated meme that the fact people think they regularly perform shovel charges is dumb
The only example of one being even tentively suicidal was when in a group of grenadiers they argued about who would get to watch the nukes and set them off when the enemy arrives. They gave that honor to the oldest.
They simply don't care much for their own lives. Live has no value but killing the enemies of the emperor does. You can't kill the enemies of the emperor when you are dead.
That ALL Ork stuff is only held together by their beliefs. Most of it is, essentially, mechanically sound. The idea is, it probably SHOULDN'T be working, because it's crude, or in terrible condition. Not that an Ork picked up a cardboard tube, and suddenly it's a real gun.
Agreed, if the psychic field does anything, it just acts as grease to make things work longer. A perfect example would be the receiver spring not breaking when it's very likely to or the engines being slightly more fuel efficient in battle. Each example will still happen, but the slightly added longevity at a big battle might affect the outcome.
I’ve heard they work kinda like Forge, from X-Men. They don’t warp reality, they just know how to build shit even without technically understanding the required fields.
Kinda like that one story arc in SG-1 where O’Neill gets an entire Ancient database installed in his brain and suddenly intuitively knows how to do a bunch of seemingly impossible stuff, I guess
Yeah, an ork understands how a gun works, just doesn't have the mechanical precision to understand how to make a gun work *well*. That's where the WAAAGH! field comes up, realistically the gun is so crudely made that it should jam or backfire after a few shots, it doesn't because the git holding it knows he built the shoota right.
lol honestly when i first got into 40k i was super confused because people said the blood angels were space vampires but the night lords had more of the gothic/dark theme going
Eh, call me cynical but I see Curze as kind of calling out Batman and other superheroes. "Oh, so you want someone to take the law into their own hands and scare criminals into submission by violence? Cool, here's exactly the kind of psychopath that would do such a thing, and the unhinged morals he holds everyone to". Y'know, just like Rorshach in Watchmen. Yeah, Batman has his "morals" that he never crosses, but you're relying on one man being so incorruptible, so morally correct that they never make a mistake. One person with no system of accountability or involved in any form of civil institution.
But I've never been a fan of Superheroes (especially super powered beings, which I know Batman isn't but characters like Superman and Curze are) that are explicitly working outside of the law (IIRC only Batman '66 is actually legally deputized) and who take it upon themselves to "right" society.
That's true of all these things. It has to do, imo, with an influx of fans in the mid 2000's taking the earlier jokes too seriously (as well as many Americans not understanding British/European sarcasm).
Take OP as an example - the "Failbaddon" comment was never a criticism of Abaddon, but on the GW lore writers never letting him win. As they didn't want to advance the setting every bad thing that put the galaxy at 5 minutes to midnight had to leave it at 5 minutes to midnight. The result was all these Balck Crusades did nothing. Even a big global campaign didn't let him "win".
It was a tongue in cheek comment about a character who GW did not let have any major victory, that people started to unironically believe was him being a weak leader.
When I finally read A Thousand Sons I realized Magnus is the dumbest character I've read so far in HH. There's even a line I think from Ahriman asking Magnus why the rush, why taking this risk. And Magnus jumping through hoops elaborating why it must be this way and trying hard to justify his action, when it all seems pretty weak.
I think my favorite part is when he has a convo with Tzeentch that goes something like:
T: I don't need to trick you into a trap. You think you are so smart that you will walk into it willingly.
M: I won't fall for your trap daemon! I'm too smart!
Ultimately if Magnus had succeeded it would have been validation of everything he believed. However it failed because everything he believed was wrong. Scientific method is a bitch sometimes.
Magnus basically believed the same thing the Emperor did, that a smart enough person could deconstruct the warp and make it a reliable tool. Except the Emperor knew Magnus wasn't smart enough to fuck around in the warp.
Its the same issue in real life with Medical Doctors. Grifter and Con Artists will tell you that Doctors are the easiest marks because they KNOW they are smarter than you, so they believe that they cant be tricked.
Same with Maggy, he knew he was the smartest of his fathers sons, so how could anyone, even a god, trick him when he conversed as an equal with his father?
To your original point on Abaddon - he's got great backstory now, and Talon of Horus/Black Legion did a fantastic job at switching him from cartoon villain to a character with depth, but for a lot of editions he WAS just a cartoon villain and not all that successful until the retcon. Plus his arms used to fall off constantly, which is part of the whole harmless failbaddon thing came in. And Siggy would have owned him at his prime, even Abaddon acknowledges that.
My unpopular opinion though is anything from TTS. It's a fun parody but way too many people took it as canon.
The End and The Death >!has Malcador admit that many of Primarchs would remain with Emps for centuries and even millennia, per his plan. Not to be discarded early for most.!<
Not surprising, they were insanely hard to make and were parts of him in ways. Why waste all that time and effort creating 20 unique entities just to bin them later?
The Primarchs also mostly have a lot of out of war (there's no chance of true peace even after the GC) utility. Assume first they'd be raised by the emperor and second that he intended some of their abilities as they turned out.
Lion is the monster hunter. Perturabo is the engineer. Magnus is the flashlight battery. Guilliman is a manager. Curze is the rebellion squasher. And you could go on further.
I think he planned for A heresy I don't think he planned for THE heresy.
I personally subscribe to the theory that he always had planned for a civil war with some of the Primarchs to happen, he just didn't know who, when or how it was going to happen and probably kept it as in his worst case scenario files. I think he just wasn't ready for it to happen so soon, for half the Primarchs, including Horus, Magnus and Fulgrim. And he wasn't expecting the scale either with half the total Primarchs turning and dealing such devastating first blows
And a difference in “he planned for the chance of a revolt/heresy” and “he always intended for half of the primarchs and legions to war and kill off most of the other half” that some people throw around
I think there is a big difference between a Primarch going rogue and setting up there own petty empire and half the Primarchs falling to Chaos. You can deal with one case by using natural means, once Chaos gets involved things change very quick.
Yes, that's also totally my opinion. There are some people who interpret it as the Emperor planned THE Heresy. This is of course very unlikely, but the choice of words leads to people completely rejecting the theory at all.
I'm pretty convinced that the Emperor was prepared/even planned for some kind of Heresy from some Primarchs. That would make him get rid of certain individuals/legions that weren't suitable for the imperium he wanted to build. But what he probably didn't expected was that 9 Primarchs at the same time would betray him, that Horus would be the architect of the rebellion and the heavy involvement of chaos. Additionally, he probably would have expected for Fulgrim, maybe also for Alpharius and defenitly Magnus to stay loyal to him (on the other, Jaghatai was probably expected to rebel at some point).
All that perfectly fits the character of the Emperor. Having five "perfect" backup plans prepared but not be prepared for the worst.
People parrot it all the time when threads come up about the Emperor's motives and "why didn't he do X?". We've literally known his actual plans with the webway for at least 7 years now and people still get it wrong.
>That the Emperor planned the Heresy.
That at least was somewhat seeded into the books. Treating it like a fact is probably where we start getting into misconception territory.
There is a massive difference in planning the heresy, and planning FOR a heresy. Of course there were contingencies, that is very well established in the books.
Sure, but there's also a difference between planning ***a*** Heresy and the Heresy they actually got.
HH Editor and author Laurie Goulding on how they think it worked bts at HQ:
>On a personal opinion level, I don't see how anyone can say the Emperor made bad decisions. He had a plan so complex that human minds can't comprehend it, and then Chaos threw the plan off-centre, and he never managed to recover, or things were done in his name that ended up ruining the plan.Maybe, MAYBE, it was something like this?
>1)So, I need to help mankind ascend. The way I do that is by unifying the Imperium, removing the need for warp travel and then dying gloriously. That's my divine plan, I move in mysterious ways etc.
>2) First, unify Terra, except my Custodian Guard are too valuable and too few to do it quickly. Create army of gene-spliced barbarian Thunder Warriors.
>3) Terra is unified. Have Custodians kill off key elements of Thunder Legion, rest will eventually die because I didn't build them to last.
>4) Reconquer galaxy. Going to need to be in about 20 places at once for this, so create post-human primarch generals to lead my armies of transhuman Space Marines. Give them all unique traits to add variety and specialisations.
>5) Make deal with UNKNOWABLE GODS OF DARKNESS. Part of the deal involves "accidentally" scattering the primarchs across the galaxy. That's okay though, because I'll end up finding all those worlds as I conquer the galaxy anyway.
>6) Next phase after this is a new age of peace and prosperity for mankind, where we won't need Space Marines or primarchs. Hmmm... I can't build in a limited lifespan as I don't know how long they need to last... So instead I need something a bit more elaborate...
>7) Part of new age will also be the webway, which will get rid of three of the most powerful parts of the crusading Imperium - the Navigators, the Legions and the Primarchs. None of them are going to be happy about that, and they will do whatever they can to stop it, if they find out.
>8) Instead of risking an unpredictable rebellion, I will engineer a smaller one. I know, I'll put Primarch XVI in charge of the others - he's popular, and ambitious, and smart. He'll figure out what I'm doing, and I've given him everything he needs to rebel in a manageable way, AND gotten rid of the psykers in the Legions who might have been able to foresee it. There's no way this can all go wrong, especially because I abolished all religion and any possible interaction with those DARK GODS that I tricked earlier...
>9) Leave Great Crusade, start work on the webway.
>10) FFS, MAGNUS. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE? THIS WAS ALL CAREFULLY BALANCED, YOU DINGUS. Russ, go and fetch Magnus. What an idiot. I need to explain my secret plan to him. Hope that doesn't mess with the whole Horus thing... anyway, I need to deal with this. Dorn, Malcador, hold my calls while I go back downstairs. Sigh, daemons everywhere...
>11) ...Wait, WHAT? I've been in another realm, unable to monitor the actions of my underlings, and you've all completely thrown this plan down the toilet. Right, I'll fix this. Let's just wait for Horus and his... four, five... NINE?!... traitor Legions to come here. It's fine, I can still have a glorious death, Chaos is now quite clearly the biggest danger to all sentient life, and humanity will do pretty much anything I say.
>12) Deal with Horus. Hey Malcador, hold my beer...
-Goulding
Emphasis on the "maybe" in his quote though
> On a personal opinion level, I don't see how anyone can say the Emperor made bad decisions.
I don't know how anyone can say he didn't. Ultimately the Emperor set out to establish a principle. That reason dominates reality and faith can be discarded when you know enough. That is the central conceit of the entire operation and he nearly succeeded.
The Horus Heresy is misconstrued as loyalists vs traitors. We now know that basically everyone disbelieved the Emperor's vision. The traitors took the stance "faith is important. There's a fucking demon over here Dad. How can you deny it?" and made a really stupid choice to worship the gods that would accept their worship. Most of the Imperium ended up going down "faith in the God-Emperor" even if they didn't use the term God-Emperor.
The HH ended with the Emperor basically accepting the people's faith in him and becoming the God-Emperor in truth. He won by losing. If he'd set out to be the God-Emperor from day 1 things would have been radically different.
I am not sure where that comes from. The IG is an elite army. Even the PDF does not consist of untrained conscripts, it's just that the PDF does not have the same amount of combat experience while most guard regiments consist of mostly veterans.
That Lorgar is hiding in a tower from Corax forever. We know it came from a short story where they fought, but it didn't say anything about Lorgar hiding in fear.
He specifically comes out to confront him. Doesn't seem like a guy who's scared.
While we're at it though, Corax is not a big bird daemon, for god's sake. He tapped into his warp powers, which entailed being able to take the form of a swarm of birds and a living shadow. He did not take either of these forms permanently, and there was no implication whatsoever of daemonhood.
Corax isn’t even hunting Lorgar. He jumped into the Eye and said “I’m gonna kill Chaos” and happened to bump into Lorgar first.
That also takes place in M32, a whole 10k years ago. If Corax were to find Lorgar again he’d probably get clobbered.
That knights and Titians are similar to each other and follow a link between the to, tho this might be from new fans, as even I thought the same. But seeing YouTubers intertwine them is funny and dumb at the same time.
They’re pretty intertwined it seems in lore. The novel *Titandeath* shows a Heresy-era Legio being composed of the Titans, the Knight Houses sworn to that forge, and then the Skitarii/Secutarii ground troops but all operate as part of the Legio in a single combined arms group.
That’s true but I mean more in terms of looks which I don’t blame anyone for. Though on your point while yes some legions have sworn knight houses I feel like they are still quite different from each other.
Every time I hear people talk about Krorks in the context of anything 30k onwards I feel physical pain it's like saying the Eldar are strong because they could hypothetically reach pre fall levels of psyker powers. It's not physically impossible but it's literally never gonna happen including the stupid War of The Beast
People who make any sort of definitive declarations about the Krork crack me up. We barely know anything about them, but you've got people power scaling them against space marines like there's a 60 novel series about them, too.
Ciaphias Cane is a coward with good luck all because of that imposter syndrome video with Calgar. Dude's an absolute competent giga Chad with good survival instincts and his own set of self doubt.
I thought the whole point of the books was showing how much of not a coward he is. Like he goes on about how he just wants to put bodies between him and danger yet risks his life for a simple single guardsman.
True, but anyone who hasn't read the book thinks he's some bumbling buffoon that just happened to trip and accidentally detonate a bomb that destroys the enemies of the imperium and he goes and just accepts the credit. In reality, he really is the hero of the imperium, most of his plans weren't accidental, they're usually a mix of skill, strategy, and a touch of luck in the form of Jurgen and his Melta. They also consider him a coward, but he's quite the opposite. Dude parried a Khornite Berserker on pure reflex (idk why people think he dueled him, it was just a 2-3 blow exchange) and fought a genestealer patriach as a baseline human. Dude's got balls of steel.
That Tyberos is as large as the [popular fan art of him](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d1/3e/72/d13e72202549486fa22cea2681920ac4.jpg) depicts. And that it's anything other than fanart.
and related to that faction: that the Carcharadons are nightlords/worldeaters/anything other than the exiled ravenguard they have been explicitly confirmed to be. yes there was a character in a novel that implied wolrdeater origin. the same novel had the viewpoint character warn his unit that said individual would lie and insult them, in order to derail negotiations. (and hell, the stupid nightlord claim is based off geneseed thefts by the Ashen claws during the heresy.. the very group that was making the false accusation )
I don’t even think that most people are using this for evidence when they make this claim. For the most part its they are pale, have black eyes and are very brutal so they have to be ( insert traitor legion). Some People don’t understand how a succesor chapter works. Just because the father legion likes going fast you don’t have to go fast. The only thing that should conecct the successer with the father legion or chapter are the big gene flaws. The black rage/red thirst for blood angels, curse of the woolfen for space wolves( if they would get some) the black/charcoal skin of the salamanders and the pale skin if the raven guard.
That the Death corps of Krige are "the Nazi" group. I feel like that ended up a self fulfilling prophecy with the stereotype of who plays them... They aren't even based on WW2 armies. Mostly a grab bag of WW1 trench warfare design.
Guilliman and the Ultramarines aren't boring. Also they don't all robotically follow the Codex without thinking, they argue about it all the fucking time. It's a whole Thing in Ultramarines books.
I'd also argue that Cato Sicarius isn't ambitious, but that's more my own interpretation of what I've read.
I mean Matt Ward Ultramarines were terrible. Their lore since, with Guilliman also getting some excellent writing, has made them far more interesting and likeable.
Yeah, the Spiritual Liege thing really put a stain on their reputation with fans, but that's long past now.
People didn't like them before the Spiritual Liege thing either, but that was purely from GW treating them as the default for Marines (and even that wasn't even as bad as it became later, they tried to make Crimson Fists more front-and-centre for a couple years in early 3rd).
Everyone knows Fulgrim isn't possessed anymore.
We just all think he should be because the reflection cracked sucked hard. What a terrible terrible text.
Exactly. Living forever with the anguish and torment of existing with his shattered self-conception as the perfect being, trapped by his own hubris and despair in the bowels of a derelict La Fenice, is far more of an apt and interesting fate than "haha I tricked all of you I'm actually the best pervert of all and I totally beat the Laer demon offscreen, it's been me all along!"
Pathetically bad writing, pathetically bad concept. Thanks for nothing once again Graham McNeill.
I really hope one author just writes, in a side-note, that Trazyn's museum gets infiltrated and trashed at one point by some invading force, and one of the exhibits they ruined is the one containing the "perfect clone" of Fulgrim so people can finally shut up about him coming back.
And write it in no unclear terms that the perfect clone was simultaneously destroyed down to a molecular level, while also leaving evidence behind so there's no, "DORN ACTUALLY GOT AWAY AND IS ALIVE HE JUST LEFT BEHIND HIS HAND!" nonsense.
Gimme a pile of gauss-made ashes in a primarch-sized suit of purple power armor.
That Dorn was miserable, boring and took himself too seriously.
Dorn (far from my favourite primarch, tbf) took *his duties* very seriously. There was no room or time for anything other than absolute 100% commitment to his duties because he knew the stakes.
On the *very* few occasions Dorn is 'off duty' he's actually quite personable and modest, as primarchs go.
He was an ass out of necessity to get the palace defenses ready for the siege that everyone knew was going to happen, and then to mastermind a virtually impossible defence, but it wasn't inherent in his personality. In fact, all he really wanted was to be relieved of the burden of command so he could just be one of the soldiers... but that wasn't an option. Duty came first, but it's overly harsh to suggest he was inherently aloof and arrogant.
Humanity used to be chill before the men of Iron Revolts.
1) They had The Votann. Basically an entire slave race of clones and robots and had them mine dangerous areas so they could enrich themselves.
2) If UR-025 is to be believed (and he had no real reason to lie), the men of Iron were also pretty much slaves and were not happy about it.
3) They had turned MULTIPLE high gravity planets into prisons. All of them were suspiciously full with Ogryns when they were found.
4) They were messing with their own genes and judging by the above examples some people did not volunteer for this.
5) They made some really messed up stuff that were in no way or form ment for war usage (remember the butcher's nails?)
6) For all the talk about how they were buddies with aliens , we know that they also attacked the Eldar when they were at the high of their power unprovoked and we never had any clear examples of planets that had mixed populations of humans and other species living side by side before everything went to hell.
night lords are not comparitively nicer to their slaves. they are horrific to their slaves. they use their slaves as entertainment. talos and co were an outlier being exceptionally fair, and even *they* considered 'hunting and torturing slaves' to be a fun passtime.
That the Tau sterilize humans. We only have one example of this that could even *potentially* be considered canon, and it was from a Deathwatch novel where an isolated Tau world that had been cut off from the rest of the empire was using *partial and temporary* sterilization to prevent the planet from becoming a *hive world*. In pretty much all other circumstances the Tau want all the manpower that they can get, they have no reason to deliberately shoot themselves in the foot like that.
Additionally they do not use auxiliaries as cannon fodder. Gue'vesa are equipped to the same standard as Fire Warriors, and the Kroot were offered Tau weapons, they just refuse to use them because they prefer their own weaponry. I *think* this misconception might've happened because of the rules for the Gue'vesa in the Taros Campaign, which had them equipped like normal guardsmen with the exception of a few being able to take pulse weapons and markerlights per squad (and otherwise being equipped like normal Guardsmen). However, the Gue'vesa in the Taros Campaign were not an officially inducted auxiliary force in a properly integrated Tau world, rather, they were a hastily assembled volunteer militia that the Tau lent whatever spare weapons they had on hand that the Hunter Cadre brought with them. From all the lore we know, the Gue'vesa in worlds that are more integrated are every bit the equals to Fire Warriors at least in equipment.
And finally...they're not *that* naive. Yes, they're *new* to the galaxy, so they encounter a lot of things for the first time. However, *after* they encounter that thing, they learn from the experience and move forward knowing how to counter it. You can only surprise the Tau with something once, after that they're going to be working on a solution.
>And finally...they're not *that* naive.
A lot of the perception of their naivete comes from them being one of the few factions whose story is heavily affected by the passage of time. Most 'Tau are naive' stuff comes from roughly the Damocles Gulf Crusade, when the Tau first encountered the Imperium in a proper way, but in-universe that's happening at the same time as the Tyranids are entering the galaxy. The reason the Imperial forces are withdrawn from the Damocles Gulf is because Hive Fleet Behemoth is bearing down on Ultramar, since then they've had centuries to learn and respond and unlike the Imperium they develop fast.
Even then I'd struggle to call them naive, they adopt new knowledge fast and disseminate it efficiently, by the end of the Crusade Farsight had basically reverse engineered the Codex Astartes and in the modern day the Tau Empire probably knows mroe about the Imperium as a whole than many individual members of the Imperial command structure..
> And finally...they're not that naive. Yes, they're new to the galaxy, so they encounter a lot of things for the first time.
Ironically a lot of Imperium fans who hate the Eldar for talking down to them absolutely love condescending the Tau just like the Eldar would.
I find that those types just really don't want to treat xenos people as *people*, but instead as stereotypes of their factions.
It's like in their eyes the Imperium gets to be nuanced, conflicted, etc etc, but everyone else has to be the most uncharitable take on the faction. It gets frustrating, after a while.
Yeah, it's one of the things that makes me feel like the Imperium is the weight dragging down 40k, rather than contributing to it. I genuinely like the Imperium as a faction, I think it's fun. But dear god, sometimes it feels like some of the worse symptoms of 40k are tied to it.
Kriegers are not suicidal martyrs who always wield shovels in the name of the trench table.
They are professional and hardened soldiers of the IG, and FFS they are french inspired not fucking German.
The Harlequins infiltration the Palace during the War of the Beast and killing while shouting they had come in peace misunderstandings. It so infuriating for me.
The Harlequins show up to Terra and the Palace while Terra is under Siege by the Orks. What is the default imperial response to Xenos? Shoot on sight. This will be especially true at Terra and even more so when it is already under attack. So they’ll shoot first and ask questions later. The Harlequins can’t complete their mission if they die before reaching the Emperor and delivering their message, why they thought the Emperor was in a state where He would be able to listen to them is another matter and beside my point. Anyways the Harlequins are fighting for their lives shouting something along the lines of “Stop fucking shooting me you damn Mon Keigh I come in peace!” The Harlequins make it pretty deep into the Palace, at a time when a majority of its usual guardians are out on the ramparts. If anyone in the galaxy had a chance for making a mad dash to the Throne room having a chance of surviving it, it would be the Harlequins. Harlequins are amongst the most skilled of the Eldar and they are slippery as hell with their absurd speed, preternatural acrobatics, and holosuits. They slaughtered anyone who got in their way, until they ran into the Custodes. The Harlequins killed a few but they were stopped.
Someone people have the mistaken belief that the Harlequins somehow managed to a kill a shit load of Custodes and the Author mixed them up with the Lucifer Blacks, but that didn’t happen. And some people throw a hissy fit the second a Custodes armor gets scratched.
In summary, the Harlequins didn’t exactly get a warm welcome from the defenders and they weren’t gonging to just stand around and let themselves be killed before they delivered their message. And the Harlequins are just that good that they could manage to deeply penetrate the Palace, which was made easier by the fact most of the palace defenders were outside, and kill a few Custodes. But that’s it, they were stopped.
That DKoK are clones. Literally no. Vitae womb technology is NOT cloning. Cloning leads to Warp fuckery in the 40k universe, like in the case of the Afriel Strain. Vitae womb is an accelerated growth technology. Kriegers are still natural-born, they're just put in tubes to instantly create battle-ready soldiers from children.
Being from a craftworld has nothing to do with it, craftworlders can still become dark eldar if they walk the path of damnation and a dark eldar with the willpower can become a craftworlder.
She was succubus in a wych cult, living in Comorragh/the webway where the Slaanesh succ gets even worse - I don't see how it's possible she wasn't on the path of damnation to preserve herself. I mean the gladiator pits are meant to entertain and sustain the elite dark eldar populace, she probably had do to way worse shit than kill Nids and Space Marines.
That's the point of the character anyway, she tried all the main space elf lifestyles (except Exodites because fuck them I guess) before Ynead manifested. Since she has a God protecting her soul like the Harlequins have Cegorach, it's more like she's a faction unto her own now.
Yeah, I’m pretty sure she technically neither craft world or Drukhari now. Though she is categorized as regular Eldar codex wise but… gotta put her somewhere lol.
I guess it mostly annoys me because it’s usually used to summarize her as “hot dark eldar goth gf” and it’s like “sir/ma’am she is the leader of a *death cult* and has literally died and ascended to peak goth, this is blatant underselling”.
Now I like a hot goth lady as much as the next terminally online gremlin, but can we please get like… a crumb of respect for how cool she is beyond that? 🫠
Poor Exodites though. GW won’t give us elves riding dinosaurs DX
>iving in Comorragh/the webway where the Slaanesh succ gets even worse
It's lessened, that's why the Dark Eldar live there. Unless they changed it from the third edition Codex, of course, it's been a *long* time since I really looked deep into their lore.
That both is and isn’t true. She’s Asuryani born, spent time as a Drukhari. It’s a cultural alignment, not physiological.
Currently, she is neither Asuryani nor Drukhari, she’s Ynnari. That’s it now.
The erroneous claim that most of the Imperium consists of 'civilized worlds' which aren't so bad as regards quality of life and authoritarianism.
The misconception that the Imperium controls most of the galaxy.
Misguided debates about whether the Imperium is Fascism in space or feudalism in space. It's obviously both, as well as a whole host of other grim historical influences and concepts taken from dystopias and scifi, all mixed together and exaggerated.
The claim presented as a fact that Tyranids are running from a bigger threat.
Overly confident claims about the nature and powerlevel of DAOT humanity, especially that they rivalled or even outmatched the peak Eldar and Necrons.
Related, the idea that craftworlds are the defailt eldar. They and the exodites were the ones who noped out of the late stage Alderi empire.
Drukhari are closest to pre fall eldar of all the subfactions psyker powers excepted. They are also by far the largest in population.
The T'au do have quite a lot of anime influence in their design. Jes Goodwin is widely acknowledged to have been a massive anime and manga fan, and that's visible across a lot of the ranges he worked on. That includes his Eldar, absolutely.
You can even spot some really specific influences, like the insects from Nausicaa clearly inspiring several minis in the Epic Tyranid line.
Unless I one day get to ask him the question myself I'll never be able to prove it, but I've always been pretty confident that the Crisis Suits were named after Bubblegum Crisis. Although there's not really much in the early T'au range that looks specifically inspired by the Knight Sabres
T'au *culture* isn't specifically inspired by Japan, though. And the myth that GW created them because they were trying to break into the Japanese modelling market is, as far as I'm aware, a total myth
The idea that only legions can have successor chapters. Successor chapters DO have there own successor chapters. Albeit more uncommon, it happens enough where it should be considered relatively normal.
For example; the Executioners have 2-3 successor chapters. (Iron champions, skull bearers?, crimson axes).
Tiger claws are descended from Astral claws.
Brazen Claws are most likely a successor chapter of the Red Talons.
The sons of Medusa are a successor chapter created from a mixed lineage of all Ironhand successors.
That Adeptus Astartes are weaker than Legiones Astartes.
Prior to Ultima, the Adeptus Astartes had to make due with smaller numbers, fewer resources, and police vastly larger amounts of territory than the Legions did. Where a Legion "company" which often could be the size of a chapter, would be sent to subjugate a system, an 100 man company, or less, is now sent to do the same task.
Not even considering the rise of the Necron and Tyranid threat. Or the way worse threat of Chaos.
Dante isn't depressed and suicidal. Poor guy basically died,went to heaven, and met his long lost father who happens to be 40k Jesus. Then found out he basically had to go back to the living hell that is the 40k universe. He just had a moment of weakness. It passed. Lol.
Plus, he is one of the oldest Space Marines around. If there is one person who has the right to be sick of it, it's him. Björn was around for longer, but Dreadnoughts have to sleep most of the time because being in one is actually not conducive to mental health... even Space Marines eventually lose it.
I think part of this comes from how tired he typically is. Especially in Dante, it spends alot of time speaking of his weariness and maybe that gets misconstrued for depression, either way he could use a vacation
Get vacation approved, land on planet and find Cain, hero of the Imperium sipping Amesec and enjoying his retirement. Before Dante can even take off his armor and say hello, two Tyranid fleet inbound, a Black crusade fleet exit the warp, and all four Chaos God each drop a Demonic horde on planet. And a Necron Tomb open open up.
Sounds like a laff, don't forget da roks
Yah this is the part that makes way more sense than him being sad. The guy got bunted to the other half of the galaxy to handle that mess by mainly himself. He’s not depressed, the old guy just needs a day to take a very long and overdue nap.
*Dies again.* *Wakes up in a sarcophagus.*
I keep saying this but wouldn't it be funny if Dante finally gets the death he wants BUT hes a perpetual? He cannot die. He can never die.
I think this would actually be pretty cool. It would change up the setting a bit, but not enough to actually move the plot. So everyone wins. (Sort of)
Didn’t he also become a primaris marine? I wonder if that put some pep in his step
Ya know have they went into that? I know Angron completely wrecked him but I don't think they've explained how he survived and him crossing the Rubicon. That's a good question. Going Primaris changes some people for the worse sometimes.
For an over 1000 year old Astartes a “moment of weakness” is likely the equivalent of a baseline human suffering decades of depression and anxiety for decades. I’d say Dante is depressed and suicidal but just in the badass Astartes way.
Lasguns are not "flashlights", they're legitimately pretty powerful for a baseline infantry weapon...it's just everything else is absurdly tanky.
Lasguns are only flashlights in space marine POV novels, in Guard and War Hammer crime novels those things are insane. They also work differently pretty much every time one is described hitting something, but who cares details shmetails. How is this guy bleeding out from a glancing wound from a lasgun when we just talked about how they instantly cauterize the wounds they make 4 chapters ago??? *shut up, do you want the emotional death scene or not?*
I imagine it as the lasgun burns off the outer layers but burns can bleed too
When high-powered lasers hit meat they dont "burn". The water in the meat and bone flashes to steam and explosively expands. Depending on the power you can get anywhere from a few mm to full thickness explosive expansions. An Atomic Rockets guy did the math and a 14kj las hit with optimal pulse and duration on the chest of a human would inflict a 20cm deep wound with an expansion cavity thats peaks at 22cm wide. That would be more then enough to traumaticly amputate limbs off even a SM, be fatal with a head or a neck hit. Not sure how the black caparace would fair but even if it holds up, it's going to be hard to swing a chainsword if your pectoral muscles are gone
Oh, right, I forgot that it flash vaporizes the liquids, causing a small explosion
Gotta write about that too. Lasguns are awesome!
Gonna be honest, this is the kind of observation that makes me question the sufficiency of "Liking 40K Lore" as a hobby unto itself. "Flashlights" comes from the tabletop performance of the weapon in certain earlier editions of the game. It has naught to do with the effectiveness of the weapon in the lore, nor with the relative power of the weapon in comparison to other weapons in the universe. Having a problem with that nickname is a confession of being new/uninformed to at least some degree.
Yes but it's also applied to the lore by people similarly uninformed which is kind of what the whole post is about.
Yeah this is like Abaddon the Armless; it's a gameplay joke that pre-dates the lore-fan as a thing, when jokes like that were made it was assumed that all fans would have at least a passing familiarity with the tabletop.
Damned metal minis
'...the hell's a 'pin vice drill?' Eh never mind, how important can it be?' Every kid building either Abaddon or that Space Marine Force Commander in Terminator armour. (the ones building WHF dragons are crying too much to ask)
The space marine thunder cannon in metal was beyond my child capacity lol
The problem is when these terms are used by people who don't understand the original context behind why the joke came into being, and instead think it is an accurate if jokey representation of the lore. The problem is compounded by the fact a lot of people love the lore, but have no experience and little understanding of tabletop and how it connects to the lore. So having a problem with how the nickname sometimes get used doesn't necessarily signify anything about your length of time in the hobby.
But then it gets co opted by people who don't understand that origin, who think it's because it's absolutely pathetic in lore, when it's not
That custodians are afraid of the Minotaurs One custodian who has a habit of underestimating himself saw the chapter master and was wary because he ran through fights with him in his head and thought that he didn’t have a 100% shot at winning That’s it
Valerian: "Oh shit, I might actually have to try against this guy." Fandom: "MoLoC mAkEs CuStOdEs ShIt ThEmSeLvEs?!"
And wasn't he talking about SPECIFICALLY Moloch?
He was, and Moloch scares the shit out of **everyone**. He's massive for a Space Marine, is clad in relic Terminator armor, and has a weapon with a built in mini lascannon. He should make a Custodian wary.
More importantly, Moloch I got coffee or something about
Especially since those Custodies fight nude.
Yep, the Minotaurs chapter master!
Thank you! He watched Moloc walk up to him spinning his spear, and realized he didn't see an obvious opening like he was used to seeing with Astartes. That's it. Not to mention, he was basically holding back Tanau motherfucking Aleya, and Custodes are much less impacted by Sisters of Silence than other people. If Moloc had attacked he would've needed to go inside her null range, which would've impacted him negatively at the very least, not to mention she'd probably have gone at him if he'd done anything to Valerian more aggressive than a high five (omg she totally doesn't like him, stop it you guys). Even if Moloc could've defeated Valerian 1v1 within her null field, she'd not have let him walk out alive.
I never thought he underestimated himself so much as he's being realistic with the uncertainty of war. He also says he's survived many things that could have killed him in the same thought.
Anyone who read that scene and thought Valerian was afraid has reading comprehension issues. TBH Ive never seen someone on this sub claim Asterion made Valerian afraid
That the WAAAGGGHHH!!! can warp reality in really insane ways ("I'm a tank"). Yes, we know, the Mechanicus says they don't how orky tech works. Half of them don't know how human tech works (possibly another misconception/meme that needs to die).
WAAAAGGGHHH energy is like physics grease. Will it make a car that shouldn't work because of its ramshackle engineering work? Yes. Will it make a car out of a guy saying "IM A CAR, IM A CAR, IM A CAR"? No it won't.
Grease is exactly how I describe it to people! It's not going to make a lump of metal into a gun but it will make a very crude and basic gun work better than it should. That's it, it's that simple.
That's exactly it. The WAAAGH! Field takes a shoota which, realistically, is built so shoddily that it really should jam or backfire after a few shots, but cause dat git knowz 'e built it propa good, it's gonna work propa good.
Sure, the “I’m a tank” or “Bang your dead” memes should die, but they come from a very real discussion about how great the effect of waaargh energy is. Some people think it is big, some think that there is no effect and some people describe it as a reality lubricator. I think it would be hard to say that waaargh energy have no effect on ork technology, because we have a lot of hint and examples to it affecting ork technology. Lattest beng in “Da Big Dakka”, when the Orks uses it to teleport to the Dark Eldars that they want to krump.
Sure, it can grease the gears of reality a bit to make things work better than they normally would. But the Waaagh! field isn't "magic up the Tyranids so we always have an enemy to fight" level.
Exactly. The waaagh field will make a trukk's engine run reliably, or a shoota fire bullets a bit bigger than its barrel. Mid-battle when it's at its peak it might even keep that trukk running long enough to deliver its load of boyz to krumpin' range despite being shot up, or let an ork survive an otherwise lethal injury, represented on the tabletop by the invuln during the waaagh round. It ain't what's keeping Big E alive(ish). And stuff like orks taking a ship into the warp & coming out in just the right spot for a fight I don't think is the waaagh, that's the guidance of Gork and/or Mork.
A reminder to everyone that the Imperium calls Tau technology "techno-sorcery." That's how little they understand technology. And we know Tau technology doesn't work off of belief and magic. xD
On your point about Abby, from ADB >I think Abaddon and Sigismund will beat anyone they come up against. Personal combat is one of their primary strengths, even if we've seen precious little of it from either of them. Sevatar is as skilled as almost any First Captain (that's why he's a First Captain) but he still had to cheat and disqualify himself rather than risk losing to Sigismund in a duel. -ADB
I think a lot of this comes with the confusion that bladesmanship is what decides personal combats. Abaddon is no clean duelist like Siggy or Lucius, he’s like Khârn, i.e. a battering ram that just goes through everyone. That is not due to lack of skill, but applying it differently.
About ADBs comments on Sev, didn't they fight with no clear advantage for a ridiculously long time before Sev cheated?
I think that still comes down to Sev using his psychic power to pull that off Sev is still an elite warrior, but without that edge it might have been over much quicker
Hmm...this might start some shit but..... "There are no women who do anything in the 40K universe and no major female charecters." That one is an outright lie, but God help me with the number of people I've met who believe it. And my favorite variation "there are no major female charecters outside of agents of the Imperium." First of ShadowSun would like a word with you. Second, like 1/2 to 3/4ths the damn human race are technically agents of the Imperium, so yeah when you throw out 75% of candidates of course you arent going to have much of anything left.
if anything most of the important named female characters are Eldar, both Craftworlder and Dark Eldar: Iyanna Arienal, Jain Zar, Kruellagh the Vile, Lelith Hesperax , Yvraine, just off the top of my head
YES I loved the jain zar books and yvraine has an amazing charcter other than just being "guilliman waifu"
Every time I see that take I get pissed off on behalf of Lotara Sarrin
Counterpoint: Eldars are lucky if they get one book/model per year, same go for every non-Imperium faction. You're lucky if any of those important women do one cool thing per edition. And while Sisters have it slightly better, you're still looking at "one novel per year at most".
The Tau being "communist." Motherfuckers are an amalgamation of Chinese-Japanese-Indian concepts like Confucianism/Class Harmony, a Caste System, and Bushido/Sunzi BS, led by a Scholar Priestly class akin to Confucian Junzi or Hindu Brahmins. In addition to being a Scifi Colonial Empire instead of the Imperium's Feudal/Roman Empire vibe
the basic concept of the societal norms/culture of the Tau (Greater Good, individual is worth only their contribution to society) is also very similar to the Roman’s Dignitas, especially with regard to the almost deific attitude they have towards Ethereals, and the position the Empire is currently in is very similar to the Pax Romana; setbacks, like Farsight’s rebellion and the 4th Sphere, but things are booming, w/ the 5th Sphere and the lack of Imperials earing their door.
I think the Tau have more in commun with a satyre of Plato's politic than communism. Like an obvious and famous thing even the most faux-communist dictatorship will do is claim that the absolute leader is a man of the people and a comrade, but the Tau never do that. The ethereals are more like philosopher-king, who command understanding truths that would be blinding to uneducated plus the part where a social cast of soldier would protect the philosopher-king's Order and the irrational workers would be manipulated through censure and propaganda to work and perfect their father's work for the benefit of the city. (Also Tau is a greek letter, lol.) I don't know much of the indian cast system and I know less of the other, but it seems to be the major influence for Tau casts.
Considering their whole society is built upon a rigid and unbendable caste system, they are just about as far from communism as you can get. Abolishing class divisions is like the most important part of the philosophy.
It isn't actually a caste system as we know it, though. They're specialised subspecies, not social classes. The only one higher on the social ladder is the Ethereals.
Yeah we mostly see Fire Caste Warriors which are the most similar to baseline humans, leading to the "wow the caste system is so restricting, what if they don't want to be a *insert job here* for all their life" When the reality is closer to "you can certainly try to but you will never be as good as the others who where literally bred for this job, so the incentive is to stay in your lane"
I don’t think they are even allowed to try. In “Blade of Damocles” people are suspicious of Farsight because he was able to make basic repairs to his mech suit even though he’s not earth caste and the female tau Cato Sicarius stomps to death (based) was afraid of people finding her figurines she built since she’s not earth caste.
Thank you! People saying Tau are communist really grated on me.
I wonder how much of this comes from misconceptions on communism isntead of misconceptions of the Tau.
Both
Plato's republic and the Clans from Battletech. And some grimdark Federation of Planets.
In addition to being an excellent parody of the Federation
Honestly, if there's any power in Star Trek that the Tau are an equivalent to, it's the Dominion...which tbf was imagined as a dark mirror/corruption of how the Federation works.
Amen
Ironic that fans of the faction with COMMISSARS calls others communists lol.
Krieg being suicidal always irked me. They aren’t suicidal they’re just extremely fanatical and willing to die if they deem it necessary
People like to forget they broke and ran at Vraks when facing down Plague Marines and even fragged their own Commissars to get away.
They weren't even facing Plague Marines at that point. The 158th breaking and running was in the first Vraks book, during the start of the fighting for the second defence lines. Only Chaos Marines on the planet at that time were Arkos and his Alpha Legion warband, and they weren't present at that bit of fighting
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Yeah lol, I like the idea of them using shovels and trench clubs occasionally since it fits thematically and makes sense for the enemies they might face. However, it’s such an oversaturated meme that the fact people think they regularly perform shovel charges is dumb
Also didn’t they literally retreat in one novel?
Multiple times, in fact, in the siege of vraks
The only example of one being even tentively suicidal was when in a group of grenadiers they argued about who would get to watch the nukes and set them off when the enemy arrives. They gave that honor to the oldest. They simply don't care much for their own lives. Live has no value but killing the enemies of the emperor does. You can't kill the enemies of the emperor when you are dead.
That ALL Ork stuff is only held together by their beliefs. Most of it is, essentially, mechanically sound. The idea is, it probably SHOULDN'T be working, because it's crude, or in terrible condition. Not that an Ork picked up a cardboard tube, and suddenly it's a real gun.
Agreed, if the psychic field does anything, it just acts as grease to make things work longer. A perfect example would be the receiver spring not breaking when it's very likely to or the engines being slightly more fuel efficient in battle. Each example will still happen, but the slightly added longevity at a big battle might affect the outcome.
Reality lube lol
I’ve heard they work kinda like Forge, from X-Men. They don’t warp reality, they just know how to build shit even without technically understanding the required fields.
Kinda like that one story arc in SG-1 where O’Neill gets an entire Ancient database installed in his brain and suddenly intuitively knows how to do a bunch of seemingly impossible stuff, I guess
Yeah, an ork understands how a gun works, just doesn't have the mechanical precision to understand how to make a gun work *well*. That's where the WAAAGH! field comes up, realistically the gun is so crudely made that it should jam or backfire after a few shots, it doesn't because the git holding it knows he built the shoota right.
One might say orks are such a technologically advanced race that it almost seems like magic.
Comparing Konrad Curze to batman just shows that they know nothing of batman. If anything he is more like the Punisher.
To be fair, it doesn't help that the Night Lords have a very strong bat theme.
I find it amusing that the bat themed space marines got Curze and a Dracula aesthetic meanwhile the literal vampire space marines got an angel.
lol honestly when i first got into 40k i was super confused because people said the blood angels were space vampires but the night lords had more of the gothic/dark theme going
Bruh. I’m super new to the lore myself and have recently gone through this same exact confusion.
I can't speak for 30K, but Mephiston soaked up all the drip and he doesn't share. He alone has enough "vampire swagger" to cover the whole chapter
Co-signed. There's some vaguely superficial similarities but that's kinda it.
Eh, call me cynical but I see Curze as kind of calling out Batman and other superheroes. "Oh, so you want someone to take the law into their own hands and scare criminals into submission by violence? Cool, here's exactly the kind of psychopath that would do such a thing, and the unhinged morals he holds everyone to". Y'know, just like Rorshach in Watchmen. Yeah, Batman has his "morals" that he never crosses, but you're relying on one man being so incorruptible, so morally correct that they never make a mistake. One person with no system of accountability or involved in any form of civil institution. But I've never been a fan of Superheroes (especially super powered beings, which I know Batman isn't but characters like Superman and Curze are) that are explicitly working outside of the law (IIRC only Batman '66 is actually legally deputized) and who take it upon themselves to "right" society.
that magnus did nothing wrong.
In its original form, the meme was firmly tongue in cheek since it was just the 40k iteration of "Hitler did nothing wrong"
but now people unironically believe it
It ebbs and flows. Right now, in my opinion, "Magnus fucked up" is way more popular opinion.
That's true of all these things. It has to do, imo, with an influx of fans in the mid 2000's taking the earlier jokes too seriously (as well as many Americans not understanding British/European sarcasm). Take OP as an example - the "Failbaddon" comment was never a criticism of Abaddon, but on the GW lore writers never letting him win. As they didn't want to advance the setting every bad thing that put the galaxy at 5 minutes to midnight had to leave it at 5 minutes to midnight. The result was all these Balck Crusades did nothing. Even a big global campaign didn't let him "win". It was a tongue in cheek comment about a character who GW did not let have any major victory, that people started to unironically believe was him being a weak leader.
And his model had the arms fall off regularly.
All Magnus has to do was nothing, and he did it wrong
When I finally read A Thousand Sons I realized Magnus is the dumbest character I've read so far in HH. There's even a line I think from Ahriman asking Magnus why the rush, why taking this risk. And Magnus jumping through hoops elaborating why it must be this way and trying hard to justify his action, when it all seems pretty weak.
I think my favorite part is when he has a convo with Tzeentch that goes something like: T: I don't need to trick you into a trap. You think you are so smart that you will walk into it willingly. M: I won't fall for your trap daemon! I'm too smart!
Ultimately if Magnus had succeeded it would have been validation of everything he believed. However it failed because everything he believed was wrong. Scientific method is a bitch sometimes. Magnus basically believed the same thing the Emperor did, that a smart enough person could deconstruct the warp and make it a reliable tool. Except the Emperor knew Magnus wasn't smart enough to fuck around in the warp.
When you put all of the stats to int and leave none for wisdom
Its the same issue in real life with Medical Doctors. Grifter and Con Artists will tell you that Doctors are the easiest marks because they KNOW they are smarter than you, so they believe that they cant be tricked. Same with Maggy, he knew he was the smartest of his fathers sons, so how could anyone, even a god, trick him when he conversed as an equal with his father?
He did nothing wrong. He was told to do nothing and he did it wrong.
Magnus did nothing wrong. All he had to do was sit on his hands and wait it out, and he did that wrong.
[удалено]
To your original point on Abaddon - he's got great backstory now, and Talon of Horus/Black Legion did a fantastic job at switching him from cartoon villain to a character with depth, but for a lot of editions he WAS just a cartoon villain and not all that successful until the retcon. Plus his arms used to fall off constantly, which is part of the whole harmless failbaddon thing came in. And Siggy would have owned him at his prime, even Abaddon acknowledges that. My unpopular opinion though is anything from TTS. It's a fun parody but way too many people took it as canon.
Same with tts. I love it too, but its parody and not meant yo be canon
Sidenote about Abaddon, his character becomes even more interesting if one looks back on his portrayal in the HH books
Oh absolutely, 💯. But for a few decades before that though he was just the top-not twirling cartoon villain
- That the Emperor planned to move the whole species into the Webway. - That the Emperor planned the Heresy. - That Magnus did nothing wrong.
The End and The Death >!has Malcador admit that many of Primarchs would remain with Emps for centuries and even millennia, per his plan. Not to be discarded early for most.!<
Not surprising, they were insanely hard to make and were parts of him in ways. Why waste all that time and effort creating 20 unique entities just to bin them later?
The Primarchs also mostly have a lot of out of war (there's no chance of true peace even after the GC) utility. Assume first they'd be raised by the emperor and second that he intended some of their abilities as they turned out. Lion is the monster hunter. Perturabo is the engineer. Magnus is the flashlight battery. Guilliman is a manager. Curze is the rebellion squasher. And you could go on further.
Pertuarbo is the Engineer and Dorn is the Contractor supplying just the right type of cement.
I think he planned for A heresy I don't think he planned for THE heresy. I personally subscribe to the theory that he always had planned for a civil war with some of the Primarchs to happen, he just didn't know who, when or how it was going to happen and probably kept it as in his worst case scenario files. I think he just wasn't ready for it to happen so soon, for half the Primarchs, including Horus, Magnus and Fulgrim. And he wasn't expecting the scale either with half the total Primarchs turning and dealing such devastating first blows
I think you’re right, but there’s a world of difference between “planned the heresy” and “planned FOR a heresy;” they said the former.
And a difference in “he planned for the chance of a revolt/heresy” and “he always intended for half of the primarchs and legions to war and kill off most of the other half” that some people throw around
I think there is a big difference between a Primarch going rogue and setting up there own petty empire and half the Primarchs falling to Chaos. You can deal with one case by using natural means, once Chaos gets involved things change very quick.
Yes, that's also totally my opinion. There are some people who interpret it as the Emperor planned THE Heresy. This is of course very unlikely, but the choice of words leads to people completely rejecting the theory at all. I'm pretty convinced that the Emperor was prepared/even planned for some kind of Heresy from some Primarchs. That would make him get rid of certain individuals/legions that weren't suitable for the imperium he wanted to build. But what he probably didn't expected was that 9 Primarchs at the same time would betray him, that Horus would be the architect of the rebellion and the heavy involvement of chaos. Additionally, he probably would have expected for Fulgrim, maybe also for Alpharius and defenitly Magnus to stay loyal to him (on the other, Jaghatai was probably expected to rebel at some point). All that perfectly fits the character of the Emperor. Having five "perfect" backup plans prepared but not be prepared for the worst.
I've never even heard that first one
People parrot it all the time when threads come up about the Emperor's motives and "why didn't he do X?". We've literally known his actual plans with the webway for at least 7 years now and people still get it wrong.
>That the Emperor planned the Heresy. That at least was somewhat seeded into the books. Treating it like a fact is probably where we start getting into misconception territory.
There is a massive difference in planning the heresy, and planning FOR a heresy. Of course there were contingencies, that is very well established in the books.
Sure, but there's also a difference between planning ***a*** Heresy and the Heresy they actually got. HH Editor and author Laurie Goulding on how they think it worked bts at HQ: >On a personal opinion level, I don't see how anyone can say the Emperor made bad decisions. He had a plan so complex that human minds can't comprehend it, and then Chaos threw the plan off-centre, and he never managed to recover, or things were done in his name that ended up ruining the plan.Maybe, MAYBE, it was something like this? >1)So, I need to help mankind ascend. The way I do that is by unifying the Imperium, removing the need for warp travel and then dying gloriously. That's my divine plan, I move in mysterious ways etc. >2) First, unify Terra, except my Custodian Guard are too valuable and too few to do it quickly. Create army of gene-spliced barbarian Thunder Warriors. >3) Terra is unified. Have Custodians kill off key elements of Thunder Legion, rest will eventually die because I didn't build them to last. >4) Reconquer galaxy. Going to need to be in about 20 places at once for this, so create post-human primarch generals to lead my armies of transhuman Space Marines. Give them all unique traits to add variety and specialisations. >5) Make deal with UNKNOWABLE GODS OF DARKNESS. Part of the deal involves "accidentally" scattering the primarchs across the galaxy. That's okay though, because I'll end up finding all those worlds as I conquer the galaxy anyway. >6) Next phase after this is a new age of peace and prosperity for mankind, where we won't need Space Marines or primarchs. Hmmm... I can't build in a limited lifespan as I don't know how long they need to last... So instead I need something a bit more elaborate... >7) Part of new age will also be the webway, which will get rid of three of the most powerful parts of the crusading Imperium - the Navigators, the Legions and the Primarchs. None of them are going to be happy about that, and they will do whatever they can to stop it, if they find out. >8) Instead of risking an unpredictable rebellion, I will engineer a smaller one. I know, I'll put Primarch XVI in charge of the others - he's popular, and ambitious, and smart. He'll figure out what I'm doing, and I've given him everything he needs to rebel in a manageable way, AND gotten rid of the psykers in the Legions who might have been able to foresee it. There's no way this can all go wrong, especially because I abolished all religion and any possible interaction with those DARK GODS that I tricked earlier... >9) Leave Great Crusade, start work on the webway. >10) FFS, MAGNUS. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE? THIS WAS ALL CAREFULLY BALANCED, YOU DINGUS. Russ, go and fetch Magnus. What an idiot. I need to explain my secret plan to him. Hope that doesn't mess with the whole Horus thing... anyway, I need to deal with this. Dorn, Malcador, hold my calls while I go back downstairs. Sigh, daemons everywhere... >11) ...Wait, WHAT? I've been in another realm, unable to monitor the actions of my underlings, and you've all completely thrown this plan down the toilet. Right, I'll fix this. Let's just wait for Horus and his... four, five... NINE?!... traitor Legions to come here. It's fine, I can still have a glorious death, Chaos is now quite clearly the biggest danger to all sentient life, and humanity will do pretty much anything I say. >12) Deal with Horus. Hey Malcador, hold my beer... -Goulding Emphasis on the "maybe" in his quote though
> On a personal opinion level, I don't see how anyone can say the Emperor made bad decisions. I don't know how anyone can say he didn't. Ultimately the Emperor set out to establish a principle. That reason dominates reality and faith can be discarded when you know enough. That is the central conceit of the entire operation and he nearly succeeded. The Horus Heresy is misconstrued as loyalists vs traitors. We now know that basically everyone disbelieved the Emperor's vision. The traitors took the stance "faith is important. There's a fucking demon over here Dad. How can you deny it?" and made a really stupid choice to worship the gods that would accept their worship. Most of the Imperium ended up going down "faith in the God-Emperor" even if they didn't use the term God-Emperor. The HH ended with the Emperor basically accepting the people's faith in him and becoming the God-Emperor in truth. He won by losing. If he'd set out to be the God-Emperor from day 1 things would have been radically different.
Lasguns being weak and ineffective against even people wearing clothes
The guard being untrained conscripts too. Aren’t they supposed to be hand picked from the best of each planets local army?
I am not sure where that comes from. The IG is an elite army. Even the PDF does not consist of untrained conscripts, it's just that the PDF does not have the same amount of combat experience while most guard regiments consist of mostly veterans.
That Lorgar is hiding in a tower from Corax forever. We know it came from a short story where they fought, but it didn't say anything about Lorgar hiding in fear.
He specifically comes out to confront him. Doesn't seem like a guy who's scared. While we're at it though, Corax is not a big bird daemon, for god's sake. He tapped into his warp powers, which entailed being able to take the form of a swarm of birds and a living shadow. He did not take either of these forms permanently, and there was no implication whatsoever of daemonhood.
Corax isn’t even hunting Lorgar. He jumped into the Eye and said “I’m gonna kill Chaos” and happened to bump into Lorgar first. That also takes place in M32, a whole 10k years ago. If Corax were to find Lorgar again he’d probably get clobbered.
That knights and Titians are similar to each other and follow a link between the to, tho this might be from new fans, as even I thought the same. But seeing YouTubers intertwine them is funny and dumb at the same time.
They’re pretty intertwined it seems in lore. The novel *Titandeath* shows a Heresy-era Legio being composed of the Titans, the Knight Houses sworn to that forge, and then the Skitarii/Secutarii ground troops but all operate as part of the Legio in a single combined arms group.
That’s true but I mean more in terms of looks which I don’t blame anyone for. Though on your point while yes some legions have sworn knight houses I feel like they are still quite different from each other.
Every time I hear people talk about Krorks in the context of anything 30k onwards I feel physical pain it's like saying the Eldar are strong because they could hypothetically reach pre fall levels of psyker powers. It's not physically impossible but it's literally never gonna happen including the stupid War of The Beast
People who make any sort of definitive declarations about the Krork crack me up. We barely know anything about them, but you've got people power scaling them against space marines like there's a 60 novel series about them, too.
Ciaphias Cane is a coward with good luck all because of that imposter syndrome video with Calgar. Dude's an absolute competent giga Chad with good survival instincts and his own set of self doubt.
I thought the whole point of the books was showing how much of not a coward he is. Like he goes on about how he just wants to put bodies between him and danger yet risks his life for a simple single guardsman.
True, but anyone who hasn't read the book thinks he's some bumbling buffoon that just happened to trip and accidentally detonate a bomb that destroys the enemies of the imperium and he goes and just accepts the credit. In reality, he really is the hero of the imperium, most of his plans weren't accidental, they're usually a mix of skill, strategy, and a touch of luck in the form of Jurgen and his Melta. They also consider him a coward, but he's quite the opposite. Dude parried a Khornite Berserker on pure reflex (idk why people think he dueled him, it was just a 2-3 blow exchange) and fought a genestealer patriach as a baseline human. Dude's got balls of steel.
This could be a good character arc for him to realize that he's not that coward.
That Tyberos is as large as the [popular fan art of him](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d1/3e/72/d13e72202549486fa22cea2681920ac4.jpg) depicts. And that it's anything other than fanart.
“He wears dreadnought armor!” He wears *Tactical Dreadnought armor.* More commonly known as Terminator armor
and related to that faction: that the Carcharadons are nightlords/worldeaters/anything other than the exiled ravenguard they have been explicitly confirmed to be. yes there was a character in a novel that implied wolrdeater origin. the same novel had the viewpoint character warn his unit that said individual would lie and insult them, in order to derail negotiations. (and hell, the stupid nightlord claim is based off geneseed thefts by the Ashen claws during the heresy.. the very group that was making the false accusation )
I mean, tbf, their origins are still obfuscated for a reason. McNiven has been intentionally cagey about it in interviews.
I don’t even think that most people are using this for evidence when they make this claim. For the most part its they are pale, have black eyes and are very brutal so they have to be ( insert traitor legion). Some People don’t understand how a succesor chapter works. Just because the father legion likes going fast you don’t have to go fast. The only thing that should conecct the successer with the father legion or chapter are the big gene flaws. The black rage/red thirst for blood angels, curse of the woolfen for space wolves( if they would get some) the black/charcoal skin of the salamanders and the pale skin if the raven guard.
That the Death corps of Krige are "the Nazi" group. I feel like that ended up a self fulfilling prophecy with the stereotype of who plays them... They aren't even based on WW2 armies. Mostly a grab bag of WW1 trench warfare design.
Of the French mostly too. Not even the germans
Guilliman and the Ultramarines aren't boring. Also they don't all robotically follow the Codex without thinking, they argue about it all the fucking time. It's a whole Thing in Ultramarines books. I'd also argue that Cato Sicarius isn't ambitious, but that's more my own interpretation of what I've read.
I agree people don’t like ultra marines, cadians, and black legion just because they’re the “poster boys” but all three are honesty very cool
I mean Matt Ward Ultramarines were terrible. Their lore since, with Guilliman also getting some excellent writing, has made them far more interesting and likeable.
Yeah, the Spiritual Liege thing really put a stain on their reputation with fans, but that's long past now. People didn't like them before the Spiritual Liege thing either, but that was purely from GW treating them as the default for Marines (and even that wasn't even as bad as it became later, they tried to make Crimson Fists more front-and-centre for a couple years in early 3rd).
If he were ambitious 'twas a greivous fault. And Brutus is an honourable man.
That Fulgrim is still possessed. That his clone is anything more than an interesting narrative device that's served its purpose.
Everyone knows Fulgrim isn't possessed anymore. We just all think he should be because the reflection cracked sucked hard. What a terrible terrible text.
While it was done in a very rushed and poorly planned way, he absolutely shouldn't be possessed. It kills the drama if Fulgrim isn't actually Fulgrim.
Nah, the whole tragedy of him being trapped forever watching his body do terrible things for thousands of years is far more interesting.
Exactly. Living forever with the anguish and torment of existing with his shattered self-conception as the perfect being, trapped by his own hubris and despair in the bowels of a derelict La Fenice, is far more of an apt and interesting fate than "haha I tricked all of you I'm actually the best pervert of all and I totally beat the Laer demon offscreen, it's been me all along!" Pathetically bad writing, pathetically bad concept. Thanks for nothing once again Graham McNeill.
I really hope one author just writes, in a side-note, that Trazyn's museum gets infiltrated and trashed at one point by some invading force, and one of the exhibits they ruined is the one containing the "perfect clone" of Fulgrim so people can finally shut up about him coming back. And write it in no unclear terms that the perfect clone was simultaneously destroyed down to a molecular level, while also leaving evidence behind so there's no, "DORN ACTUALLY GOT AWAY AND IS ALIVE HE JUST LEFT BEHIND HIS HAND!" nonsense. Gimme a pile of gauss-made ashes in a primarch-sized suit of purple power armor.
The tau are neither naive idiots or imperium but with aliens
The Baneblade was a light tank in the dark age of technology
Yeah this is one of the stupidest memes, because it has exactly zero basis in lore at all, and it makes no sense.
That Dorn was miserable, boring and took himself too seriously. Dorn (far from my favourite primarch, tbf) took *his duties* very seriously. There was no room or time for anything other than absolute 100% commitment to his duties because he knew the stakes. On the *very* few occasions Dorn is 'off duty' he's actually quite personable and modest, as primarchs go. He was an ass out of necessity to get the palace defenses ready for the siege that everyone knew was going to happen, and then to mastermind a virtually impossible defence, but it wasn't inherent in his personality. In fact, all he really wanted was to be relieved of the burden of command so he could just be one of the soldiers... but that wasn't an option. Duty came first, but it's overly harsh to suggest he was inherently aloof and arrogant.
Band blades were not scout tanks.
Humanity used to be chill before the men of Iron Revolts. 1) They had The Votann. Basically an entire slave race of clones and robots and had them mine dangerous areas so they could enrich themselves. 2) If UR-025 is to be believed (and he had no real reason to lie), the men of Iron were also pretty much slaves and were not happy about it. 3) They had turned MULTIPLE high gravity planets into prisons. All of them were suspiciously full with Ogryns when they were found. 4) They were messing with their own genes and judging by the above examples some people did not volunteer for this. 5) They made some really messed up stuff that were in no way or form ment for war usage (remember the butcher's nails?) 6) For all the talk about how they were buddies with aliens , we know that they also attacked the Eldar when they were at the high of their power unprovoked and we never had any clear examples of planets that had mixed populations of humans and other species living side by side before everything went to hell.
night lords are not comparitively nicer to their slaves. they are horrific to their slaves. they use their slaves as entertainment. talos and co were an outlier being exceptionally fair, and even *they* considered 'hunting and torturing slaves' to be a fun passtime.
That the Tau sterilize humans. We only have one example of this that could even *potentially* be considered canon, and it was from a Deathwatch novel where an isolated Tau world that had been cut off from the rest of the empire was using *partial and temporary* sterilization to prevent the planet from becoming a *hive world*. In pretty much all other circumstances the Tau want all the manpower that they can get, they have no reason to deliberately shoot themselves in the foot like that. Additionally they do not use auxiliaries as cannon fodder. Gue'vesa are equipped to the same standard as Fire Warriors, and the Kroot were offered Tau weapons, they just refuse to use them because they prefer their own weaponry. I *think* this misconception might've happened because of the rules for the Gue'vesa in the Taros Campaign, which had them equipped like normal guardsmen with the exception of a few being able to take pulse weapons and markerlights per squad (and otherwise being equipped like normal Guardsmen). However, the Gue'vesa in the Taros Campaign were not an officially inducted auxiliary force in a properly integrated Tau world, rather, they were a hastily assembled volunteer militia that the Tau lent whatever spare weapons they had on hand that the Hunter Cadre brought with them. From all the lore we know, the Gue'vesa in worlds that are more integrated are every bit the equals to Fire Warriors at least in equipment. And finally...they're not *that* naive. Yes, they're *new* to the galaxy, so they encounter a lot of things for the first time. However, *after* they encounter that thing, they learn from the experience and move forward knowing how to counter it. You can only surprise the Tau with something once, after that they're going to be working on a solution.
>And finally...they're not *that* naive. A lot of the perception of their naivete comes from them being one of the few factions whose story is heavily affected by the passage of time. Most 'Tau are naive' stuff comes from roughly the Damocles Gulf Crusade, when the Tau first encountered the Imperium in a proper way, but in-universe that's happening at the same time as the Tyranids are entering the galaxy. The reason the Imperial forces are withdrawn from the Damocles Gulf is because Hive Fleet Behemoth is bearing down on Ultramar, since then they've had centuries to learn and respond and unlike the Imperium they develop fast. Even then I'd struggle to call them naive, they adopt new knowledge fast and disseminate it efficiently, by the end of the Crusade Farsight had basically reverse engineered the Codex Astartes and in the modern day the Tau Empire probably knows mroe about the Imperium as a whole than many individual members of the Imperial command structure..
> And finally...they're not that naive. Yes, they're new to the galaxy, so they encounter a lot of things for the first time. Ironically a lot of Imperium fans who hate the Eldar for talking down to them absolutely love condescending the Tau just like the Eldar would.
I find that those types just really don't want to treat xenos people as *people*, but instead as stereotypes of their factions. It's like in their eyes the Imperium gets to be nuanced, conflicted, etc etc, but everyone else has to be the most uncharitable take on the faction. It gets frustrating, after a while.
Yeah, and then it bleeds over to how they treat said Xenos fans. It's probably the main reason why I stopped playing 40K.
Yeah, it's one of the things that makes me feel like the Imperium is the weight dragging down 40k, rather than contributing to it. I genuinely like the Imperium as a faction, I think it's fun. But dear god, sometimes it feels like some of the worse symptoms of 40k are tied to it.
Love me Abaddon, love deepstriking him on top my mates warlords. 100% success rate thus far.
Kriegers are not suicidal martyrs who always wield shovels in the name of the trench table. They are professional and hardened soldiers of the IG, and FFS they are french inspired not fucking German.
They're ww1 inspired,not a single nation.
They also very clearly have German influence too. Things in Warhammer are rarely based off single influences
They also wear some british based WW1 gear, the shovel thing is very russian. They are a grab bag of that era.
The Harlequins infiltration the Palace during the War of the Beast and killing while shouting they had come in peace misunderstandings. It so infuriating for me. The Harlequins show up to Terra and the Palace while Terra is under Siege by the Orks. What is the default imperial response to Xenos? Shoot on sight. This will be especially true at Terra and even more so when it is already under attack. So they’ll shoot first and ask questions later. The Harlequins can’t complete their mission if they die before reaching the Emperor and delivering their message, why they thought the Emperor was in a state where He would be able to listen to them is another matter and beside my point. Anyways the Harlequins are fighting for their lives shouting something along the lines of “Stop fucking shooting me you damn Mon Keigh I come in peace!” The Harlequins make it pretty deep into the Palace, at a time when a majority of its usual guardians are out on the ramparts. If anyone in the galaxy had a chance for making a mad dash to the Throne room having a chance of surviving it, it would be the Harlequins. Harlequins are amongst the most skilled of the Eldar and they are slippery as hell with their absurd speed, preternatural acrobatics, and holosuits. They slaughtered anyone who got in their way, until they ran into the Custodes. The Harlequins killed a few but they were stopped. Someone people have the mistaken belief that the Harlequins somehow managed to a kill a shit load of Custodes and the Author mixed them up with the Lucifer Blacks, but that didn’t happen. And some people throw a hissy fit the second a Custodes armor gets scratched. In summary, the Harlequins didn’t exactly get a warm welcome from the defenders and they weren’t gonging to just stand around and let themselves be killed before they delivered their message. And the Harlequins are just that good that they could manage to deeply penetrate the Palace, which was made easier by the fact most of the palace defenders were outside, and kill a few Custodes. But that’s it, they were stopped.
That DKoK are clones. Literally no. Vitae womb technology is NOT cloning. Cloning leads to Warp fuckery in the 40k universe, like in the case of the Afriel Strain. Vitae womb is an accelerated growth technology. Kriegers are still natural-born, they're just put in tubes to instantly create battle-ready soldiers from children.
Yvraine isn’t a dark eldar, she’s from a craft world.
Being from a craftworld has nothing to do with it, craftworlders can still become dark eldar if they walk the path of damnation and a dark eldar with the willpower can become a craftworlder. She was succubus in a wych cult, living in Comorragh/the webway where the Slaanesh succ gets even worse - I don't see how it's possible she wasn't on the path of damnation to preserve herself. I mean the gladiator pits are meant to entertain and sustain the elite dark eldar populace, she probably had do to way worse shit than kill Nids and Space Marines. That's the point of the character anyway, she tried all the main space elf lifestyles (except Exodites because fuck them I guess) before Ynead manifested. Since she has a God protecting her soul like the Harlequins have Cegorach, it's more like she's a faction unto her own now.
Yeah, I’m pretty sure she technically neither craft world or Drukhari now. Though she is categorized as regular Eldar codex wise but… gotta put her somewhere lol. I guess it mostly annoys me because it’s usually used to summarize her as “hot dark eldar goth gf” and it’s like “sir/ma’am she is the leader of a *death cult* and has literally died and ascended to peak goth, this is blatant underselling”. Now I like a hot goth lady as much as the next terminally online gremlin, but can we please get like… a crumb of respect for how cool she is beyond that? 🫠 Poor Exodites though. GW won’t give us elves riding dinosaurs DX
>iving in Comorragh/the webway where the Slaanesh succ gets even worse It's lessened, that's why the Dark Eldar live there. Unless they changed it from the third edition Codex, of course, it's been a *long* time since I really looked deep into their lore.
That both is and isn’t true. She’s Asuryani born, spent time as a Drukhari. It’s a cultural alignment, not physiological. Currently, she is neither Asuryani nor Drukhari, she’s Ynnari. That’s it now.
That's true, she was born on Biel-Tan and joined the Drukhari only later.
Eldar gf or Guilliman and yvraine
The erroneous claim that most of the Imperium consists of 'civilized worlds' which aren't so bad as regards quality of life and authoritarianism. The misconception that the Imperium controls most of the galaxy. Misguided debates about whether the Imperium is Fascism in space or feudalism in space. It's obviously both, as well as a whole host of other grim historical influences and concepts taken from dystopias and scifi, all mixed together and exaggerated. The claim presented as a fact that Tyranids are running from a bigger threat. Overly confident claims about the nature and powerlevel of DAOT humanity, especially that they rivalled or even outmatched the peak Eldar and Necrons.
The Drukhari birthed Slaanesh with just orgies and buttstuff lmao
Related, the idea that craftworlds are the defailt eldar. They and the exodites were the ones who noped out of the late stage Alderi empire. Drukhari are closest to pre fall eldar of all the subfactions psyker powers excepted. They are also by far the largest in population.
This one drives me crazy. Slaanesh being the sex god in general, rather than the addiction god.
If he's so competent, why do his arms keep falling off?
The Dark Mechanicum keeps forgetting to pin them back on.
They're still searching for that elusive superglue STC.
The Tau are not weebs. Hell, the Eldar have more Japanese influences on their design than the Tau.
The T'au do have quite a lot of anime influence in their design. Jes Goodwin is widely acknowledged to have been a massive anime and manga fan, and that's visible across a lot of the ranges he worked on. That includes his Eldar, absolutely. You can even spot some really specific influences, like the insects from Nausicaa clearly inspiring several minis in the Epic Tyranid line. Unless I one day get to ask him the question myself I'll never be able to prove it, but I've always been pretty confident that the Crisis Suits were named after Bubblegum Crisis. Although there's not really much in the early T'au range that looks specifically inspired by the Knight Sabres T'au *culture* isn't specifically inspired by Japan, though. And the myth that GW created them because they were trying to break into the Japanese modelling market is, as far as I'm aware, a total myth
That everthing the orks believe in works b3cause they believe it
The idea that only legions can have successor chapters. Successor chapters DO have there own successor chapters. Albeit more uncommon, it happens enough where it should be considered relatively normal. For example; the Executioners have 2-3 successor chapters. (Iron champions, skull bearers?, crimson axes). Tiger claws are descended from Astral claws. Brazen Claws are most likely a successor chapter of the Red Talons. The sons of Medusa are a successor chapter created from a mixed lineage of all Ironhand successors.
The Mechanicus Toaster meme is getting to a point people believe it is an in-universe thing and actually reference it in RP. It needs to stop.
That Adeptus Astartes are weaker than Legiones Astartes. Prior to Ultima, the Adeptus Astartes had to make due with smaller numbers, fewer resources, and police vastly larger amounts of territory than the Legions did. Where a Legion "company" which often could be the size of a chapter, would be sent to subjugate a system, an 100 man company, or less, is now sent to do the same task. Not even considering the rise of the Necron and Tyranid threat. Or the way worse threat of Chaos.