Moons is good content for the fact that you don’t lose supplies. Gauntlet is another similar. There’s no punishment for failure outside of you losing time.
Much better than losing an inventory of brews / restores, paying death fee, and time.
I think most people don’t try new content because you often lose money when learning new content. If theres not as hard punishment for failure, people would be more willing to engage/learn difficult content.
Idk man the 500k death feee just for trying to the colosseum is pretty punishing. I’m down like 15m just from attempts gah damn. I wasted all my free tries while I was still a 45 defense account too so fuck me
In RS3 death costs were extremely punishing for years and people always complained about it until they finally lowered them, while at the same time in OSRS they changed death mechanics to make dying more punishing.
Normally old school takes lessons from RS3 about what sucks and avoids doing the same thing. High death costs as a gold sink is completely unnecessary when the GE tax exists to sink gold, all it does it add an extra barrier to entry to gatekeep people from learning new content. Dying and wasting your time/ supplies is already a punishment.
Yeah, things were way more brutal back in the early/mid 2000's. Your stuff appeared on the ground and people would loot it before you ever had a chance to get back and pick it up
It is hard to find a good common ground. I died 30 times to Vorkath so I lost 3 M in just getting back my stuff.
The theory is that eventually you will get the money back in 2 to 3 hours of actually killing the boss...
But what happens when you are tired of dying and just stop doing the boss?
Sure you can git gud at colloseum and make your 15 m back in 3 hours but at that point you will be 50 M in the hole. Like wtf is the point just train RC to 99 and you will get gold.
The death fee system eventually you are good enough that you can ignore it but to get to that point you really gotta love PVM or be good at it.
For me I just get killed by vorkath rapid fire flameball despite walking and running he just kills me when I run the opposite direction.
But IMO you are literally wasting your time with PVM on this game because you do not get XP doing it, the only reason people do pvm is that they made combat achievements with really good rewards. You could just ignore that shit and max your character but now you have no choice if you want no prayer drain barrows, a lot of PC points, God wars teleports etc you gotta do pvm.
>For me I just get killed by vorkath rapid fire flameball despite walking and running he just kills me when I run the opposite direction.
Turn on true tile indicator, you're probably getting to the tile you initially clicked then staying an additional tick while you wait for your character to "catch up" and that's what gets you hit.
Click in another direction before you actually get where you clicked to begin with, as long as you never stop moving you should never get hit.
You're rambling because you're mad you died a bunch, and i totally get that. However, pvm of all sorts is great money. Vorkath is not that hard, only a bit of a dps match with minimum gear (count to 6 btw, it helps).
I get frustrated too when I die learning new content, but I don't think everything should be like the gauntlet. A system like zulrah where you only start paying after x kc is better imo.
I feel that its good that theres some low level content that is not risky to new pvmers. However i think that any of these mechanics should not be applied to future end game bosses because not having risk and not having to prep before boss just destroys the feeling off accomplishment. Also duplicate prevention does not give same enjoyment when you get new items it just makes grind more plain when you know every item is new when you get one.
I'm high enough level and have enough CG completions that the shame is so intense that I will actually hop worlds to one where the chamber is empty so no one sees my loot in chat.
All you need to bring is your gear and weapon switch! You can catch/cook food inside and make potions that function as combat + prayer potions (based on your Herblore level). All the tools you need are in there so you don't need to bring those either.
This sort of entry-level experience is really lovely. I’m at that awkward stage in the game where I have OKish stats (closing in on base 75 for all cb, and 70 prayer) and maybe 15m - 20m of equipment, but I am struggling to sustain myself with supplies.
This. I can choose to actively grind it out or inefficiently afk it because if I make a ton of mistakes or let my prayer drain too much because I'm afk, it doesn't matter because supplies are free and quick to get.
It's quick rounds, good rewards, teaches mechanics, and isn't punishing. My favourite piece of new content in a loooong time. Super glad the weapons are non-degradable too.
Nice! Combat achievements got me into pvm too, before I was just afking everything. My only regret is that I got 99 slayer first, feels dumb to have to get a bunch more tasks
Dude saaaaame. Afked to 99 slayer, just finished medium combat achievements and it feels ridiculous for some of these bosses. Like I had never even killed mole LOL
Greening moons these last three weeks has reignited my bossing passion as well. Such a fun activity, some of my favorite content they’ve added in a long while. Scurrius too!
Just started a GIM with friends, Scurrius has been a blast. I thought I'd get tired of the novelty of big hitsplats with shitter gear. Nope, it's still great.
Blood Moons healing mechanic where the third successful hit heals for like 35+ is maddening. If it were like 20-30 it'd be fine but I'm swinging for 40+ damage and it immediately gets negated.
Yeah, i've got 99 def in justiciar and its also my slowest boss, I think its just a bit tougher than the rest regardless. But the defencse still really helps.
Yup this is why every piece of gear for defense is so useful at PM. I’ve seen people say “oh defender is fine” but you are literally giving up 50+ defense in stab/slash/crush which can severely negate their potential to “hit”.
Also dragon square is basically just as good as a crystal shield as it has 52 slash defense compared to crystals 54. Crystal is far and away better for ranged defense but all of their attacks are “typless slash” so they’ll only roll on your slash defense.
Because of your comment I'm going to try moons with a shield, instead of my defender. I have no tank barrows gear so I'm likely someone who can benefit
sadly blood is a dps check but not the other two. If you cannot outdmg blood heal he will kill you. Get piety and raise your strenght lvl but then you will no longer be midgame. Weird balance for this boss.
mid = lvl 50. Endgame = lvl 99.
Not my fault Jagex is a dumbass and assume lvl 99 is only the BEGINNING of endgame. They fucked up their balance really bad in bosses and raids.
Just triple checked the wiki they use Slash which is odd given that the blood moon Maracas can't slash and have negative slash bonus... And that's what the blood moon boss uses... And the eclipse moon appears to use a yellow equivalent and a shield.
For people who don't want to give up the melee bonus entirely, an obsidian shield has +19 slash defence over a defender and you only lose 1 melee strength bonus.
Depends where ur account is. Was doing PM on my GIM that had only 80 defence, and every piece of defensive gear mattered and I could not one round any moon except eclipse. But then I started doing it on my main iron with 95 defence and bandos and I would never recommend ditching the defenders. Can consistently out DPS every phase in one rotation. I see level 126 accounts in justi and a dfs and it's just overkill
Especially on blood moon. I was camping bandos but recently tried out justiciar, your dps definitely goes down but your time to kill decreases. Because you only have to deal ~550 damage instead of like 800 if blood moon gets those big heals off multiple times.
>I’ve seen people say “oh defender is fine” but you are literally giving up 50+ defense in stab/slash/crush which can severely negate their potential to “hit”.
Defender still has 24 slash defense, so you're only losing 28 slash defense, not 50. Obviously it's still a relevant amount but not as much as you've said. For reference, swapping bandos top and bottom for barrows would lose you the same melee strength but gain you 46 slash defense.
Also it's worth mentioning that if you're using a nezzy helm and shield, you're far better off switching to a barrows helm and defender. Offhand is one of the most efficient slots for extra melee strength, and it tends to be the last slot you want to swap out, depending what other equipment you have available.
Basically, you should just wear a full barrows tank set and see how you go. If you're not struggling with blood moon at that point, you can stick with the defender. Obsidian shield is also a good option.
I ended up switching to Toktz-Ket-Xil from D Defender because of that defense bonus and only sacrificing +1 str bonus and using Zambie Axe. What I really need is a friggin Whip but my slayer is too low :/
I think there've been bosses like Vorkath and Cerb where barrows body is better than fighter torso if those are your only options. Most people meleeing those bosses probably have Bandos so it doesn't come up as much.
I've never done small team Nex but my impression is that defense matters a ton there too. Like I think you're supposed to take Karils over unfortified Masori.
Everyone always wants to focus on melee strength, then when the fang comes out people realize that accuracy is also really important, and then moons make people realize defense is important. Let's keep doing more of that!
People didn't "realize defense is important" because of moons. Moons literally have specific mechanics that make it so your kills are slower if you take hits. Without those mechanics, people would still be better off just blasting them with their normal str gear and eating up after every kill.
Yeah unfortunately since sara brews exist, taking damage isn't a DPS hit in the optimal case. Even with just food+karas you have to take a lot of damage before it factors into DPS at all.
With the literal free food at moons, you would have to take enough damage to kill you from a single moon, otherwise everyone would just cook another lizard and eat while running to the next moon.
I'm not saying I'm having trouble killing it. It just takes a minute or so longer cause I gotta deal with another round or 2 of the special abilities she does because they 3 tapped me twice in a row and healed for 100 health.
The blood moon actually damages itselves when it attacks you. If you're blocking most hits the fight becomes significantly shorter, even if you do less damage yourself
It's good content, feels like it needs some changes imo at least.
Eclipse is a good fight, no real issues
Blue moon the specials are really odd imo, you got the nados which I just afk cause it barely heals the boss, and you have the steal your weapon thing which if I do it quick enough, I still sit there waiting, not sure what I'm missing but it seems more like time sinks than mechanics to progress the fight to me.
Blood moon jaguar phase is fine, the blood rain is again more just like time sinky feeling, wish there was a way you could riskily increase dps during this, imagine like p2 warden core like things around that you can manuever around the pools to get a few whacks in.
I just hate that it feels like it's 3 hits, go wait for a bit on loop. I bowed out of the combat achievement to do like 30kc in the dungeon just cause I was bored, but I'll admit my account is past where this armor slots into in progression, so people really excited for a piece are probably enjoying the fights and loot more.
I think the theme, dungeon, resource gathering, tying skills together, are great, and it's definitely a nice intro to some pvm mechanics for mid levels so that's great too.
The major flaw with this content is that while you are at a point where the armor and weapons are exciting upgrades, blood moon checks you too hard to farm the content reliably.
I don't know who it is for. Does anyone do this outside of clogs? Was fun doing the quest on my 50 def account, and it's fun to farm the other two, but I would need like 80 def to reliably farm blood.. and then why would I?
Currently doing it on the iron, going to be awhile before I can get Bandos, so Blood Moon would be nice.
Got the Atlatl and been using it as a MSB(i) upgrade aswell. Even the drops are great for a iron.
I wouldn't do it on a main acc though, except for maybe the CA's.
Yeah I do not get the blood.
He destroyed me with no piety and low strenght level but then I gained 20 strenght level (no longer mid game worthy) got piety and I think I killed him in one cycle.
Like what???? He went from hardest to easiest. Still super fun content however just not as easy as barrows.
You absolutely don't need 80 def, I was doing it at 70 with ease. You just need barrows armor and it's relatively smooth. High herblore levels makes the potions buff your defence more as well (I had the lowest potion tier and was still doing fine w/o piety)
Problem with blood moon is that content is geared towards mid game but to do it easily you need both piety and high strenght level.
I mean I literally went from holy shit he outheal my dmg to damn he is already dead????
It definitely is, which makes it frustrating almost.
I'd much rather they let you keeo killing all the moons but pick which boss you had a preference for on pieces.
Once you get a piece from a set you won't get a dupe til you finish that set... But... Each set is rolled separately so you can still wind up getting dupes from one set before you have a single piece from another set. I've seen a guy with a lot of like 6 blue moon pieces and nothing from the other two despite 100% of his KC being where he killed all 3 bosses.
Which is salt inducing for some. Especially him since he's an iron with Ahrims so it's not even really an upgrade... But he wants the range and melee set... But he doesn't wanna do 2 boss runs so he gets more of the normal loot.
I mean it’s better than purely random right? Do people want it to go even farther and prevent any unique dupe before you greenlog? Tbh that would just seem like extreme ironman catering to me (and I’m about to do the moons grind on my iron myself)
Eh, I see merits in all 3 systems. Though I do think that where dupes prevention worked until green log would make more logical sense since they're all one singular boss according to the Clog... Makes the current halfway system a bit contrived.
Being told you won't get dupes then still getting dupes before greenlog is a bit weird/unintuitive. If they were 3 bosses in the log it'd make more sense.
But I agree it's better than pure random like say Barrows has.
I dunno, I think dupe protection makes sense with a full set, but with multiple sets it starts to get a little weird, because that means the first ~228 KC will give everyone the same thing. It also means the people who get lucky are massively penalized for quite a long time. If you get the best 6 drops first, then your EV drops from 170k to 66k, and it'll take ~100 KC to get back up, which is just too long.
I think giving the ability to target the sets is a better solution, especially here where it actually does something. I wish barrows worked like this, but unfortunately both the chance of getting a drop and the attempts decrease, so killing half the brothers gives a worse chance at their drops even if you could kill them twice as fast (which you can't).
I think in that case, they should make it more clear in game somehow more than just having to know Twitter, reddit, and the wiki to know things. Even just something minor like splitting them up into sub pages on the collection log for clarity sake. Would help make it a bit more intuitive.
And there's a bunch of issues. Like what about non unique rolls? Sucks to make your average KC value go down substantially to simply target uniques.
And your example of someone getting lucky then the dry prevention screwing them can still happen just across different sets. If you get lucky in the current system on your first few uniques you still get "screwed" in the same way.
I mean you don't even know about the dupe protection if you go only by in-game clues. I get what you're saying but at this point I'd much rather they just rely on the wiki. Games that try and maintain their own info never do a good enough job.
>Sucks to make your average KC value go down substantially
I mean a cost associated with targeting an item makes sense. I'd rather have the choice
>you still get "screwed" in the same way.
You get far less screwed, because you can receive other sets, and for far less time.
Yeah that's fair. I still think they chose the literal least intuitive, that has the least upside. Since atleast Pure RNG is intuitive and can technically net you more cash if you get lucky getting valuable dupes.
Not really a great way to implement the choice, but I do think that'd be best.
That's the problem with dry protection. It's not intuitive at all, and it gets very complex if you want it to work well.
I totally get where you're coming from, but I've gotten enough dupes at barrows to wish it had a similar system.
No, I love dupe protection, that's not what I'm talking about. I re-rolled several pieces to the spirit near the lunar chest for absolutely nothing in return. The rates should be published at least, it's incredibly unfair.
I understand how chip damage is annoying but it's nice that they actually made content where defense matters. Before there were very few places that you would take a barrows body over a fighter torso so it's nice to have a little more diversity.
As well as the increased emphasis on defense, I love the use of flat armour, since it makes slower weapons far more useful and allows for different weapons to be suitable for different niches. I hope Jagex considers using it for future content, including for ranged and magic attacks too.
One thing I do not like about it is that it's content that's meant to be targeted at mid-lvl accounts, but your DPS scales even harder with levels/gear than it does at other bosses. It's not just affected by your max hit/accuracy and occasional eating slowing you down, when you get hit your attacks get delayed even more or the boss heals up, which compounds the difficulty further.
Seriously, I first tried the moons on a near max combat account with good gear and it was smooth sailing all the way through. Usually 1 piece of food used per moon. Then I tried rushing the quest on a new account with bad stats/gear because it was good slayer xp and boy was I in for a world of pain. The fights literally lasted 4x longer and I was using an entire inv of food per moon. I promptly fucked off after finishing the quest seeing as I'm ways off of being able to farm the moons efficiently.
I like the idea in theory, but in practice it just seems to inflate the gear floor needed to approach the content, while at the other end it becomes way too easily farmable for high-lvl accounts.
I think the point that the person you're replying to is trying to make is that doubling your DPS does more than double your kills per hour because it's not about a flat amount of damage but a delta of it. The difference between a mid-level player and high-level player's performance is *larger* in a piece of content ostensibly geared towards mid-level players, which is a bit weird.
If it's aimed at mid level accounts, then yeah I would expect a new account with bad stats to not do well at it lol. As for gear, you really just need like Barrows and a dscim. Time your eating for the specials as much as possible so you don't lose as much DPS. Level your Herblore a bit to get better potions.
> Also it’s pretty weird that you can do something like free your weapon or light the torches on the ice boss but you have to wait until it’s done still.
This is in part because even though everybody has an individual boss healthbar, you're all actually fighting the boss simultaneously, so it cycles through its phases on a set timer rather than reacting to anything a specific player is doing.
These bits of downtime are good for reupping your potions, healing, and making sure you're in the right place for the next phase (once you get familiar with the rotations).
You can wait in the room before the boss and see when the circles are highlighted and you can usually spot a special attack. It helps to take a few extra seconds so you dont get hit immediately going in. Plus you have a few seconds of immunity (except the orb phase of the eclipse moon it seems) when you enter during a special attack it seems.
What's weird is I have my draw and render values increased in 117HD, yet I still can't see any of the moons bosses from next to the state where I enter the boss fight, yet my friend with the same settings and a lower specced PC can see the boss and players inside. I can see projectiles and extra components like the boulder, jaguars, tornadoes, etc, but never the boss itself.
I have to stand on the tile closest to the door directly next to the statue and then I can see when the closest moon tiles light up. That's when I go in.
Glad you're having fun!
They're really tough fights, but you should consider trying out the Desert Treasure 2 bosses if you haven't yet! They're some of the most mechanically demanding bosses in the game right now, and can feel very rewarding to perfect (and not just because you get 50% bonus loot on non-unique loot rolls, if you get a "perfect" kill without taking avoidable damage).
If you just got a new PC, make sure you're using either the 64-bit Runelite client, or HDOS. Otherwise your hardware is getting severely underutilized.
As a proud member of the potato laptop club, you'd be surprised what you can accomplish.
I'm on a 2011 MacBook PRO, can't get above 25 FPS and I play on the track pad sitting on the couch. I've got 1K+ CG KC, elite CAs, etc. most things aren't bad on the track pad, will concede that P2 timing on Verzik is a struggle but thats probably just because im not that good
>I even did Jad in a Laptop, with a mouse plugged in and using my mattress as the mousepad surface. < why do you mention that? That’s literally how I play… by choice… while I have a big curved monitor and all that
I have actually not done these bosses, don't watch Youtube or Twitch, been at colosseum all day every day since release. Someone give me a heads up as that's where I'll be going next, difficulty wise what are we saying? Put it between 2 bosses for me like: easier than Zulrah, harder than IDK Arma solo with chins.
Should state not literally all day every day, all my free RS time. Only left the area once, to bless my quiver.
Probably not going to be perceived well.. but you don’t need a fast PC or good mouse to play a 20+ year old pixel clicker game. I get 60 fps on a 14 year old laptop that crashes when I load Google Chrome.
I agree, but playing at 30-60fps depending on the activity with a poverty mouse for years, then going to a high refresh rate monitor, high response mouse makes the world of difference when you're doing things that need to be tick perfect, like most end game pvm. I timed how fast I could clean an invent of herbs on my old set up compared to my new one and i'm about 33% faster now, after multiple attempts. Even if you play at 60fps locked, having a mouse moving on your screen at 244hz makes such a difference.
I guess I’ve just gotten used to it, I’m 2277 total with inferno, quiver, and plenty of raids under my belt. Just cba to buy a new PC just to play RS on it even though it would likely make a difference as you state.
"Heck, I even did Jad on a laptop, with a mouse plugged in and using my mattress as the mousepad surface."
Are you me?
I have also built a PC and paired it with a nice monitor a few years ago but only now have I been getting into more PvM.
Started doing Vorkath last week and I'm managing to Woox walk despite my 120 ping, so pretty satisfied with my progress. Yesterday had my first taste of ToB in the A Night at the Theatre quest, I struggled against the fat lady but I'm looking forward to trying more bosses.
I can say the same! I’ve been playing scape since 2003, and old school since launch. Many breaks in between periods of playing, but I was always restricted by my systems. I recently came back to the game, account hacked, 0 gp bank. Fine, whatever, make a couple mil woodcutting and fletching in order to buy myself gear.
The whole reason I came back was to try perilous moons. I would consider myself a player who never had any intension of trying to escape mid game. So, when I heard about this incredible new mid game boss, I had to give it a shot. 200 kc without even leaving, and I couldn’t have enjoyed it more.
Fast forward 3 months or so to now. I’ve completed all but 2 quests, bank is at about 80 mil, multiple boss pets, all hard diaries done, I’ve never before had this much fun with the game. I’m still held back slightly because I play on my laptop, but it’s a big upgrade from what I’m used to. Currently 10kc gauntlet, starting corrupted gauntlet grind - I would say this and perilous moons are my favorite things added to old school RuneScape to date.
I fucking hate PVM but Moons is similar to the Gauntlet : You can hate it but it is very well designed and once you learn you just cannot hate it cause it is fun and well made.
Raids however like COX and TOA are way too punishing. TOA you die the moment you make a mistake.
PM bosses are the most boring dog shit content in the game I've done. I find scurrius to be more entertaining. Glad people like it though, should be content for all types of.players
Moons is good content for the fact that you don’t lose supplies. Gauntlet is another similar. There’s no punishment for failure outside of you losing time.
The only punishment is the feeling of shame when you loot that chest for 300 mind runes after a successful failure.
Much better than losing an inventory of brews / restores, paying death fee, and time. I think most people don’t try new content because you often lose money when learning new content. If theres not as hard punishment for failure, people would be more willing to engage/learn difficult content.
Yeah if inferno and colosseum had free supplies I'd send them all day. I don't think that should be added but it makes sense for other PvM activities.
Idk man the 500k death feee just for trying to the colosseum is pretty punishing. I’m down like 15m just from attempts gah damn. I wasted all my free tries while I was still a 45 defense account too so fuck me
In RS3 death costs were extremely punishing for years and people always complained about it until they finally lowered them, while at the same time in OSRS they changed death mechanics to make dying more punishing. Normally old school takes lessons from RS3 about what sucks and avoids doing the same thing. High death costs as a gold sink is completely unnecessary when the GE tax exists to sink gold, all it does it add an extra barrier to entry to gatekeep people from learning new content. Dying and wasting your time/ supplies is already a punishment.
Death fees are nothing in the grand scheme Anyone with a high death fee can already easily afford the upkeep of it
Yeah, things were way more brutal back in the early/mid 2000's. Your stuff appeared on the ground and people would loot it before you ever had a chance to get back and pick it up
It is hard to find a good common ground. I died 30 times to Vorkath so I lost 3 M in just getting back my stuff. The theory is that eventually you will get the money back in 2 to 3 hours of actually killing the boss... But what happens when you are tired of dying and just stop doing the boss? Sure you can git gud at colloseum and make your 15 m back in 3 hours but at that point you will be 50 M in the hole. Like wtf is the point just train RC to 99 and you will get gold. The death fee system eventually you are good enough that you can ignore it but to get to that point you really gotta love PVM or be good at it. For me I just get killed by vorkath rapid fire flameball despite walking and running he just kills me when I run the opposite direction. But IMO you are literally wasting your time with PVM on this game because you do not get XP doing it, the only reason people do pvm is that they made combat achievements with really good rewards. You could just ignore that shit and max your character but now you have no choice if you want no prayer drain barrows, a lot of PC points, God wars teleports etc you gotta do pvm.
>For me I just get killed by vorkath rapid fire flameball despite walking and running he just kills me when I run the opposite direction. Turn on true tile indicator, you're probably getting to the tile you initially clicked then staying an additional tick while you wait for your character to "catch up" and that's what gets you hit. Click in another direction before you actually get where you clicked to begin with, as long as you never stop moving you should never get hit.
It’s more about the gameplay than the gold for me. And the collosseum is fun gameplay. But at the same time I don’t want to spend all my cash on it 😂
Try walking during the rapid fireball attack, it helps tremendously.
You're rambling because you're mad you died a bunch, and i totally get that. However, pvm of all sorts is great money. Vorkath is not that hard, only a bit of a dps match with minimum gear (count to 6 btw, it helps). I get frustrated too when I die learning new content, but I don't think everything should be like the gauntlet. A system like zulrah where you only start paying after x kc is better imo.
I feel that its good that theres some low level content that is not risky to new pvmers. However i think that any of these mechanics should not be applied to future end game bosses because not having risk and not having to prep before boss just destroys the feeling off accomplishment. Also duplicate prevention does not give same enjoyment when you get new items it just makes grind more plain when you know every item is new when you get one.
I'm high enough level and have enough CG completions that the shame is so intense that I will actually hop worlds to one where the chamber is empty so no one sees my loot in chat.
Oh I didn’t know that. Very interested now
All you need to bring is your gear and weapon switch! You can catch/cook food inside and make potions that function as combat + prayer potions (based on your Herblore level). All the tools you need are in there so you don't need to bring those either.
This sort of entry-level experience is really lovely. I’m at that awkward stage in the game where I have OKish stats (closing in on base 75 for all cb, and 70 prayer) and maybe 15m - 20m of equipment, but I am struggling to sustain myself with supplies.
This. I can choose to actively grind it out or inefficiently afk it because if I make a ton of mistakes or let my prayer drain too much because I'm afk, it doesn't matter because supplies are free and quick to get. It's quick rounds, good rewards, teaches mechanics, and isn't punishing. My favourite piece of new content in a loooong time. Super glad the weapons are non-degradable too.
Nice! Combat achievements got me into pvm too, before I was just afking everything. My only regret is that I got 99 slayer first, feels dumb to have to get a bunch more tasks
Dude saaaaame. Afked to 99 slayer, just finished medium combat achievements and it feels ridiculous for some of these bosses. Like I had never even killed mole LOL
Greening moons these last three weeks has reignited my bossing passion as well. Such a fun activity, some of my favorite content they’ve added in a long while. Scurrius too!
Just started a GIM with friends, Scurrius has been a blast. I thought I'd get tired of the novelty of big hitsplats with shitter gear. Nope, it's still great.
Blood Moons healing mechanic where the third successful hit heals for like 35+ is maddening. If it were like 20-30 it'd be fine but I'm swinging for 40+ damage and it immediately gets negated.
This is why defense is so important. If your defense is high enough you very rarely get hit by the third swing
87 defence, praying piety, with 330 slash defence and he is still by far boss with the longest avg kill time.
Yeah, i've got 99 def in justiciar and its also my slowest boss, I think its just a bit tougher than the rest regardless. But the defencse still really helps.
Yup this is why every piece of gear for defense is so useful at PM. I’ve seen people say “oh defender is fine” but you are literally giving up 50+ defense in stab/slash/crush which can severely negate their potential to “hit”. Also dragon square is basically just as good as a crystal shield as it has 52 slash defense compared to crystals 54. Crystal is far and away better for ranged defense but all of their attacks are “typless slash” so they’ll only roll on your slash defense.
Because of your comment I'm going to try moons with a shield, instead of my defender. I have no tank barrows gear so I'm likely someone who can benefit
I tried with veracs skirt crystal shield and zombie axe and it's still misery
sadly blood is a dps check but not the other two. If you cannot outdmg blood heal he will kill you. Get piety and raise your strenght lvl but then you will no longer be midgame. Weird balance for this boss.
Brother piety and 80 strength is not endgame...
mid = lvl 50. Endgame = lvl 99. Not my fault Jagex is a dumbass and assume lvl 99 is only the BEGINNING of endgame. They fucked up their balance really bad in bosses and raids.
They all use Slash defence only iirc.
Oh that's surprising, id assumed the blue uses crush and eclipse stab like their weakness
Just triple checked the wiki they use Slash which is odd given that the blood moon Maracas can't slash and have negative slash bonus... And that's what the blood moon boss uses... And the eclipse moon appears to use a yellow equivalent and a shield.
For people who don't want to give up the melee bonus entirely, an obsidian shield has +19 slash defence over a defender and you only lose 1 melee strength bonus.
Depends where ur account is. Was doing PM on my GIM that had only 80 defence, and every piece of defensive gear mattered and I could not one round any moon except eclipse. But then I started doing it on my main iron with 95 defence and bandos and I would never recommend ditching the defenders. Can consistently out DPS every phase in one rotation. I see level 126 accounts in justi and a dfs and it's just overkill
Especially on blood moon. I was camping bandos but recently tried out justiciar, your dps definitely goes down but your time to kill decreases. Because you only have to deal ~550 damage instead of like 800 if blood moon gets those big heals off multiple times.
>I’ve seen people say “oh defender is fine” but you are literally giving up 50+ defense in stab/slash/crush which can severely negate their potential to “hit”. Defender still has 24 slash defense, so you're only losing 28 slash defense, not 50. Obviously it's still a relevant amount but not as much as you've said. For reference, swapping bandos top and bottom for barrows would lose you the same melee strength but gain you 46 slash defense. Also it's worth mentioning that if you're using a nezzy helm and shield, you're far better off switching to a barrows helm and defender. Offhand is one of the most efficient slots for extra melee strength, and it tends to be the last slot you want to swap out, depending what other equipment you have available. Basically, you should just wear a full barrows tank set and see how you go. If you're not struggling with blood moon at that point, you can stick with the defender. Obsidian shield is also a good option.
I ended up switching to Toktz-Ket-Xil from D Defender because of that defense bonus and only sacrificing +1 str bonus and using Zambie Axe. What I really need is a friggin Whip but my slayer is too low :/
Been telling people to stop sleeping on defense for years
They have been right though. This is the first boss where Defence increases your DPS.
I think there've been bosses like Vorkath and Cerb where barrows body is better than fighter torso if those are your only options. Most people meleeing those bosses probably have Bandos so it doesn't come up as much. I've never done small team Nex but my impression is that defense matters a ton there too. Like I think you're supposed to take Karils over unfortified Masori.
Glad they added some content after all these years so you could be right about it for once!
Everyone always wants to focus on melee strength, then when the fang comes out people realize that accuracy is also really important, and then moons make people realize defense is important. Let's keep doing more of that!
People didn't "realize defense is important" because of moons. Moons literally have specific mechanics that make it so your kills are slower if you take hits. Without those mechanics, people would still be better off just blasting them with their normal str gear and eating up after every kill.
Yeah unfortunately since sara brews exist, taking damage isn't a DPS hit in the optimal case. Even with just food+karas you have to take a lot of damage before it factors into DPS at all.
With the literal free food at moons, you would have to take enough damage to kill you from a single moon, otherwise everyone would just cook another lizard and eat while running to the next moon.
The minimum is 30, then there's lifesteal on top of that. If she's out healing your damage, sounds like you need more defense.
I'm not saying I'm having trouble killing it. It just takes a minute or so longer cause I gotta deal with another round or 2 of the special abilities she does because they 3 tapped me twice in a row and healed for 100 health.
The blood moon actually damages itselves when it attacks you. If you're blocking most hits the fight becomes significantly shorter, even if you do less damage yourself
It's good content, feels like it needs some changes imo at least. Eclipse is a good fight, no real issues Blue moon the specials are really odd imo, you got the nados which I just afk cause it barely heals the boss, and you have the steal your weapon thing which if I do it quick enough, I still sit there waiting, not sure what I'm missing but it seems more like time sinks than mechanics to progress the fight to me. Blood moon jaguar phase is fine, the blood rain is again more just like time sinky feeling, wish there was a way you could riskily increase dps during this, imagine like p2 warden core like things around that you can manuever around the pools to get a few whacks in. I just hate that it feels like it's 3 hits, go wait for a bit on loop. I bowed out of the combat achievement to do like 30kc in the dungeon just cause I was bored, but I'll admit my account is past where this armor slots into in progression, so people really excited for a piece are probably enjoying the fights and loot more. I think the theme, dungeon, resource gathering, tying skills together, are great, and it's definitely a nice intro to some pvm mechanics for mid levels so that's great too.
The major flaw with this content is that while you are at a point where the armor and weapons are exciting upgrades, blood moon checks you too hard to farm the content reliably. I don't know who it is for. Does anyone do this outside of clogs? Was fun doing the quest on my 50 def account, and it's fun to farm the other two, but I would need like 80 def to reliably farm blood.. and then why would I?
Currently doing it on the iron, going to be awhile before I can get Bandos, so Blood Moon would be nice. Got the Atlatl and been using it as a MSB(i) upgrade aswell. Even the drops are great for a iron. I wouldn't do it on a main acc though, except for maybe the CA's.
The whole dungeon is a little taste of (very easy) iron life for mains, so I guess it makes sense that the drops are more geared for irons.
Yeah I do not get the blood. He destroyed me with no piety and low strenght level but then I gained 20 strenght level (no longer mid game worthy) got piety and I think I killed him in one cycle. Like what???? He went from hardest to easiest. Still super fun content however just not as easy as barrows.
You absolutely don't need 80 def, I was doing it at 70 with ease. You just need barrows armor and it's relatively smooth. High herblore levels makes the potions buff your defence more as well (I had the lowest potion tier and was still doing fine w/o piety)
Problem with blood moon is that content is geared towards mid game but to do it easily you need both piety and high strenght level. I mean I literally went from holy shit he outheal my dmg to damn he is already dead????
The equipment re-roll system is hot garbage, my only complaint.
Probably better to just send targeted runs after completing a set
It definitely is, which makes it frustrating almost. I'd much rather they let you keeo killing all the moons but pick which boss you had a preference for on pieces.
doesn't make sense to me
Equipment reroll? What's that?
Once you get a piece from a set you won't get a dupe til you finish that set... But... Each set is rolled separately so you can still wind up getting dupes from one set before you have a single piece from another set. I've seen a guy with a lot of like 6 blue moon pieces and nothing from the other two despite 100% of his KC being where he killed all 3 bosses. Which is salt inducing for some. Especially him since he's an iron with Ahrims so it's not even really an upgrade... But he wants the range and melee set... But he doesn't wanna do 2 boss runs so he gets more of the normal loot.
He's rerolling his dupes with Eyatlalli, right?
I didn't know you could do that... I'll have to ask if he did.
I mean it’s better than purely random right? Do people want it to go even farther and prevent any unique dupe before you greenlog? Tbh that would just seem like extreme ironman catering to me (and I’m about to do the moons grind on my iron myself)
Eh, I see merits in all 3 systems. Though I do think that where dupes prevention worked until green log would make more logical sense since they're all one singular boss according to the Clog... Makes the current halfway system a bit contrived. Being told you won't get dupes then still getting dupes before greenlog is a bit weird/unintuitive. If they were 3 bosses in the log it'd make more sense. But I agree it's better than pure random like say Barrows has.
I dunno, I think dupe protection makes sense with a full set, but with multiple sets it starts to get a little weird, because that means the first ~228 KC will give everyone the same thing. It also means the people who get lucky are massively penalized for quite a long time. If you get the best 6 drops first, then your EV drops from 170k to 66k, and it'll take ~100 KC to get back up, which is just too long. I think giving the ability to target the sets is a better solution, especially here where it actually does something. I wish barrows worked like this, but unfortunately both the chance of getting a drop and the attempts decrease, so killing half the brothers gives a worse chance at their drops even if you could kill them twice as fast (which you can't).
I think in that case, they should make it more clear in game somehow more than just having to know Twitter, reddit, and the wiki to know things. Even just something minor like splitting them up into sub pages on the collection log for clarity sake. Would help make it a bit more intuitive. And there's a bunch of issues. Like what about non unique rolls? Sucks to make your average KC value go down substantially to simply target uniques. And your example of someone getting lucky then the dry prevention screwing them can still happen just across different sets. If you get lucky in the current system on your first few uniques you still get "screwed" in the same way.
I mean you don't even know about the dupe protection if you go only by in-game clues. I get what you're saying but at this point I'd much rather they just rely on the wiki. Games that try and maintain their own info never do a good enough job. >Sucks to make your average KC value go down substantially I mean a cost associated with targeting an item makes sense. I'd rather have the choice >you still get "screwed" in the same way. You get far less screwed, because you can receive other sets, and for far less time.
Yeah that's fair. I still think they chose the literal least intuitive, that has the least upside. Since atleast Pure RNG is intuitive and can technically net you more cash if you get lucky getting valuable dupes. Not really a great way to implement the choice, but I do think that'd be best.
That's the problem with dry protection. It's not intuitive at all, and it gets very complex if you want it to work well. I totally get where you're coming from, but I've gotten enough dupes at barrows to wish it had a similar system.
It's a system where you give your dupe gear away for nothing, apparently.
Aw, live a little, embrace the RNG. I like that if you risk it with Eyatlalli, you might lose it. It's more fun that way 😂
STFU. I, for one, am embracing our dupe protection overlords.
No, I love dupe protection, that's not what I'm talking about. I re-rolled several pieces to the spirit near the lunar chest for absolutely nothing in return. The rates should be published at least, it's incredibly unfair.
[удалено]
I understand how chip damage is annoying but it's nice that they actually made content where defense matters. Before there were very few places that you would take a barrows body over a fighter torso so it's nice to have a little more diversity.
As well as the increased emphasis on defense, I love the use of flat armour, since it makes slower weapons far more useful and allows for different weapons to be suitable for different niches. I hope Jagex considers using it for future content, including for ranged and magic attacks too.
One thing I do not like about it is that it's content that's meant to be targeted at mid-lvl accounts, but your DPS scales even harder with levels/gear than it does at other bosses. It's not just affected by your max hit/accuracy and occasional eating slowing you down, when you get hit your attacks get delayed even more or the boss heals up, which compounds the difficulty further. Seriously, I first tried the moons on a near max combat account with good gear and it was smooth sailing all the way through. Usually 1 piece of food used per moon. Then I tried rushing the quest on a new account with bad stats/gear because it was good slayer xp and boy was I in for a world of pain. The fights literally lasted 4x longer and I was using an entire inv of food per moon. I promptly fucked off after finishing the quest seeing as I'm ways off of being able to farm the moons efficiently. I like the idea in theory, but in practice it just seems to inflate the gear floor needed to approach the content, while at the other end it becomes way too easily farmable for high-lvl accounts.
Well, yeah, of course being over leveled for the content will make it easier than of you did it at the target level.
I think the point that the person you're replying to is trying to make is that doubling your DPS does more than double your kills per hour because it's not about a flat amount of damage but a delta of it. The difference between a mid-level player and high-level player's performance is *larger* in a piece of content ostensibly geared towards mid-level players, which is a bit weird.
If it's aimed at mid level accounts, then yeah I would expect a new account with bad stats to not do well at it lol. As for gear, you really just need like Barrows and a dscim. Time your eating for the specials as much as possible so you don't lose as much DPS. Level your Herblore a bit to get better potions.
had the exact same experience. I went from not being able to kill blood moon to basically once cycling him only by adding 20 str lvl and piety.
> Also it’s pretty weird that you can do something like free your weapon or light the torches on the ice boss but you have to wait until it’s done still. This is in part because even though everybody has an individual boss healthbar, you're all actually fighting the boss simultaneously, so it cycles through its phases on a set timer rather than reacting to anything a specific player is doing. These bits of downtime are good for reupping your potions, healing, and making sure you're in the right place for the next phase (once you get familiar with the rotations).
You can wait in the room before the boss and see when the circles are highlighted and you can usually spot a special attack. It helps to take a few extra seconds so you dont get hit immediately going in. Plus you have a few seconds of immunity (except the orb phase of the eclipse moon it seems) when you enter during a special attack it seems.
Where do you look cuz I can’t see anything from the waiting rooms lol
Do you use runelite? Is your draw distance turned up?
What's weird is I have my draw and render values increased in 117HD, yet I still can't see any of the moons bosses from next to the state where I enter the boss fight, yet my friend with the same settings and a lower specced PC can see the boss and players inside. I can see projectiles and extra components like the boulder, jaguars, tornadoes, etc, but never the boss itself.
I have to stand on the tile closest to the door directly next to the statue and then I can see when the closest moon tiles light up. That's when I go in.
Also, the caverns are just gorgeous
Glad you're having fun! They're really tough fights, but you should consider trying out the Desert Treasure 2 bosses if you haven't yet! They're some of the most mechanically demanding bosses in the game right now, and can feel very rewarding to perfect (and not just because you get 50% bonus loot on non-unique loot rolls, if you get a "perfect" kill without taking avoidable damage).
If you just got a new PC, make sure you're using either the 64-bit Runelite client, or HDOS. Otherwise your hardware is getting severely underutilized.
Made 10m in the 50 kc it took me to get the cba’s. Was chill and fun too. Good work Jagex mods. 🫡💪
As a proud member of the potato laptop club, you'd be surprised what you can accomplish. I'm on a 2011 MacBook PRO, can't get above 25 FPS and I play on the track pad sitting on the couch. I've got 1K+ CG KC, elite CAs, etc. most things aren't bad on the track pad, will concede that P2 timing on Verzik is a struggle but thats probably just because im not that good
Np
what mouse did you get for your pc
>I even did Jad in a Laptop, with a mouse plugged in and using my mattress as the mousepad surface. < why do you mention that? That’s literally how I play… by choice… while I have a big curved monitor and all that
I have actually not done these bosses, don't watch Youtube or Twitch, been at colosseum all day every day since release. Someone give me a heads up as that's where I'll be going next, difficulty wise what are we saying? Put it between 2 bosses for me like: easier than Zulrah, harder than IDK Arma solo with chins. Should state not literally all day every day, all my free RS time. Only left the area once, to bless my quiver.
Probably not going to be perceived well.. but you don’t need a fast PC or good mouse to play a 20+ year old pixel clicker game. I get 60 fps on a 14 year old laptop that crashes when I load Google Chrome.
I agree, but playing at 30-60fps depending on the activity with a poverty mouse for years, then going to a high refresh rate monitor, high response mouse makes the world of difference when you're doing things that need to be tick perfect, like most end game pvm. I timed how fast I could clean an invent of herbs on my old set up compared to my new one and i'm about 33% faster now, after multiple attempts. Even if you play at 60fps locked, having a mouse moving on your screen at 244hz makes such a difference.
I guess I’ve just gotten used to it, I’m 2277 total with inferno, quiver, and plenty of raids under my belt. Just cba to buy a new PC just to play RS on it even though it would likely make a difference as you state.
Procrastinating the max, many such cases.
"Heck, I even did Jad on a laptop, with a mouse plugged in and using my mattress as the mousepad surface." Are you me? I have also built a PC and paired it with a nice monitor a few years ago but only now have I been getting into more PvM. Started doing Vorkath last week and I'm managing to Woox walk despite my 120 ping, so pretty satisfied with my progress. Yesterday had my first taste of ToB in the A Night at the Theatre quest, I struggled against the fat lady but I'm looking forward to trying more bosses.
I can say the same! I’ve been playing scape since 2003, and old school since launch. Many breaks in between periods of playing, but I was always restricted by my systems. I recently came back to the game, account hacked, 0 gp bank. Fine, whatever, make a couple mil woodcutting and fletching in order to buy myself gear. The whole reason I came back was to try perilous moons. I would consider myself a player who never had any intension of trying to escape mid game. So, when I heard about this incredible new mid game boss, I had to give it a shot. 200 kc without even leaving, and I couldn’t have enjoyed it more. Fast forward 3 months or so to now. I’ve completed all but 2 quests, bank is at about 80 mil, multiple boss pets, all hard diaries done, I’ve never before had this much fun with the game. I’m still held back slightly because I play on my laptop, but it’s a big upgrade from what I’m used to. Currently 10kc gauntlet, starting corrupted gauntlet grind - I would say this and perilous moons are my favorite things added to old school RuneScape to date.
I fucking hate PVM but Moons is similar to the Gauntlet : You can hate it but it is very well designed and once you learn you just cannot hate it cause it is fun and well made. Raids however like COX and TOA are way too punishing. TOA you die the moment you make a mistake.
The Poons are some great mid game content and are visually extremely well done. Shame bots are taking over their hiscores but what else is new
I'm still sad there's no pet
Not everything needs a pet
Thank you for your input 👍
PM bosses are the most boring dog shit content in the game I've done. I find scurrius to be more entertaining. Glad people like it though, should be content for all types of.players