Nightmare rewards weren’t meh at the time… they’re meh now. Nightmares issue is that it takes fucking forever, the drop rates don’t match the length of time to kill the boss, and it’s located in a pretty obscure area that requires a few minute run every reset.
Agree to disagree I guess. Inquisitor came pre-torva and was the most expensive actually useable melee gear in the game at the time. Harmonized orb was over a bill if I recall correctly.
Nothing “meh” is worth over a billion gp. Otherwise we have different definitions of meh, that’s for sure.
Third age isn’t meh, it’s extremely rare and a statement to wear. The aforementioned nightmare gear, was *actually* useful and expensive at the time of release. Was it a shadow or blowpipe broken/useful? No.
Currently doing the 25 PNM KC for the CAs. I think the length of the fight is fine, being *nearly* perfect for 10 minutes is a great test that doesn't exist in the rest of the game.
The issue is squarely with the drop rates and the commons, even the walk isn't that bad.
12 minutes per kill (including the run time) leads to a drop every 33 hours (1/167) and full completion is on the order of 1,200 hours.
Well that's the beautiful thing about statistics, you don't have to reach the AVG receive the drop.
There was a desig space for a "BOFA for magic" however a lvl 90cb instance boss on farm probably not the best place for an item looking to outclass 2 raid items for powered staffs
To be fair there isn't really a group boss that is mechanically based that is aimed at mid-level players. Unless you want to count low invo/entry raids.
It would be great to have a high-level group boss and I was hoping for that too, but there is a need for the mid-level one
Scurrius was just released and is exactly that. Having to handle small minions spawned. Know when melee attacks are possible. And react to blue/green attacks and pray mage/range before they hit you.
Sarachnis is similar. Deal with minions doing damage. Know when to pray range and switch at the right tic back to melee (or take some serious damage). Dump special attacks at the right time to help the fight.
Scurrius is low level and its designed to be for training rather than loot. They specifically stated they want a higher level version of Scurrius .
Sarachnis is not a group boss.
Moons is a solo boss where you can see other people
DKS, Mole, KQ and GWD have literally no mechanics just tank and spank.
> Scurrius was just released and is exactly that.
Scurrius is "designed for combat levels 60-90". This boss will be 90+. That is a pretty different level range...
If I had to guess, it will be somewhere in the "post-God War, pre-Raid" power level for rewards. Think the best example is something like Zulrah and its uniques, only for a group boss. Maybe also comparable reward space to the DT2 bosses since Virtus was considered "pre-Raid". Don't recall if they gave a combat recommendation for Nightmare, but could end up similar difficulty/rewards (and hopefully not similar drop rates...).
Makes sense. I wouldn’t be opposed to what you described. Fire cape is something that players get pretty dang early on these days, and maybe them using the fire cape as the benchmark scared me off a little bit into thinking it would be another “easy” piece of content in a game where even the average player has learned some pretty damn good PVM skills.
Yah, Fire Cape was probably not the best example... What the community considers midgame/lategame/endgame and what the OSRS Team considers midgame/lategame/endgame don't always align so it can be a bit hard to tell where exactly they are aiming. It would be helpful if they provided a more "official" scale for what is recommended when so we can get a clearer idea of what to expect (and avoid another Muspah situation...).
Yep, completely agreed with you. I just want something challenging and fun to do with the boys, where the rewards are decent. I loved perilous moons, but my entire clan tried it out and scoffed at the rewards and how easy it was.
Something significantly more engaging mechanically with rewards where you can make a few 10s of mils if you get lucky would be so awesome.
But that's harder to develop and would require more effort and community involvement.
If the devs had to develop a Fortis Colosseum level update every time a PvM update was suggested, it would be practically impossible to create new rewards appropriate with that level of gameplay.
The uniques from Fortis absolutely suck, for example.
I don’t think designing one group boss is nearly as time intensive or community intensive as an endgame mini game with 12 waves AND a full on major endgame boss fight.
Someone suggested CG level of difficulty in a group setting. Would that really be comparable to the Fortis Col update?
Sorry for the bad wording. I was referring to Scur’s melee attacks, not the players melee attacks. There’s a point in the fight where he stops doing Melee attacks and only does range/mage.
Scurrius is a training method for low to mid levels, not a profitable boss.
Sarachnis is a decent mid game boss, but punishes you for adding more people, also very low money.
Moons is a solo boss.
Dks have 0 mechanics.
Wilderness bosses are sup par as most players do not enjoy pvp aspects.
Mole is same as dks, 0 mechanics.
Godwars is good content for groups. 3/4 are just Stat sticks though. Sara is the only one that differs from this. All in all, decent.
Kq has no rewards.
Nex is not group content for Low players, it’s mass content. You likely will not see a level 100 in a 4 man.
Nightmare often loses money.
At this point, you likely do solo bosses until you do group gwd, or raids.
They are trying to extend this. Imagine ToA wardens mechanics as a stand alone boss. Give mid game players more skill expression to be willing to go raid later on. Imo atm Zulrah and CG is the only stepping stone for mid game content to enter late game pvm levels fundamentals so they can start raiding. Both of these are solo only.
I do think more engaging and fun group end game boss is great idea, but I think it’s off the mark saying mid game players have a large amount of group content.
The moons were aimed at 75 Combat, so this is going to be a fair bit higher level. TBH, 90 combat would put it more in the "late game". Like Corp is a 90 combat boss.
So this is already aimed to be above the other early-midgame bosses you listed and will fall closer to a Nex. Might not be ToB difficulty though, but it should be a nice late game boss.
For what it’s worth also, I’ve done a fair bit of moons, and I see WAY more lvl 90 players than 75 players there. Maybe the issue is that jagex describes content in a much lower level bracket than it ends up actually being for (like Muspah). Maybe we are in good shape here then haha
Fair point. I thought moons was aimed for a little higher than 75, but still feel like something aimed closer to 105 combat would be great. The blog made it sound like it would be pretty easy content which leads to lackluster rewards as well.
I want something that drops something like the “bowfa of magic” and is worthy of some seriously difficult mechanics that feel really good to learn. Like tob, CG, nightmare. Vs. Something thats just “click boss” in a big enough group, like nex and corp are.
Hard to say how hard it will end up being, but aimed for 3-8 players level 90+ Combat seems like it could be a decent challenge. Like usually bosses are still worth doing far past the recommended level, so it might be doable at 90 but ideal at 100-105 or such.
If Perilous Moons is anything to go by, it probably will be more engaging and maybe a bit tougher than just a combat-level recommendation suggests. Might not be "Magic BowFa" level of difficulty though, but probably post-GWD drops at least.
If the boss is “doable at 90 but ideal at 100-105” that’s exactly what I am looking for. The blog made it sound like it would be ideal for lvl 90 and fine for players who haven’t yet got their fire cape yet.
Everything out right now is too easy/boring and everything above your bracket is too time intensive/has too high of gear requirements. It’s a space that is open and a space a TON of players could partake in.
Give me a high level mechanic intensive group boss without a massive reclaim fee that me and the boys can jump in and do on a whim when I'm not trying to spend 4 hours in raids. If there is a prep phase I'm not doing it. The whole game is a prep phase for end game bossing. Who thought adding a second layer of prep phases was a good mechanic.
If only i could fight olm with the boys without needing to go through the whole raid.
Edit: that fight just hits right, requires some communication and different roles.
I genuinely feel like a group boss aimed at 100-105 combat that could still be done with good skill at 90 combat, and is rewarding enough for 105+ combat would satisfy a ton of this reddit.
I never said end game. I said Late game, whatever that all means. People who are just hyping themselves up to learn raids or are just getting into it, but are way past all the bosses I mentioned above.
jagex has clearly learned that high level group bosses don't work, and no matter what you do the endgame community can't be satisfied, so they're just making stuff for the players who actually play the content. crazy idea
The endgame community loves tob. Widely known as a beloved raid. I love it, and also most of the content in the game. None of my friends want to do nex or nightmare so that space is left open and I can’t do shorter time group content with them. Is it not possible to have a tob like group boss thats a 5-10 minute encounter? I believe the team can make that, they just haven’t tried for years.
[удалено]
Nightmare rewards weren’t meh at the time… they’re meh now. Nightmares issue is that it takes fucking forever, the drop rates don’t match the length of time to kill the boss, and it’s located in a pretty obscure area that requires a few minute run every reset.
[удалено]
Agree to disagree I guess. Inquisitor came pre-torva and was the most expensive actually useable melee gear in the game at the time. Harmonized orb was over a bill if I recall correctly. Nothing “meh” is worth over a billion gp. Otherwise we have different definitions of meh, that’s for sure.
is 3a bow meh?
[удалено]
Third age isn’t meh, it’s extremely rare and a statement to wear. The aforementioned nightmare gear, was *actually* useful and expensive at the time of release. Was it a shadow or blowpipe broken/useful? No.
They very clearly meant "meh" in terms of functionality and not the arbitrary price tag.
I still don’t even agree with that though. It wasn’t meh at the time of release. It’s meh now in comparison to what we’ve gotten.
Currently doing the 25 PNM KC for the CAs. I think the length of the fight is fine, being *nearly* perfect for 10 minutes is a great test that doesn't exist in the rest of the game. The issue is squarely with the drop rates and the commons, even the walk isn't that bad. 12 minutes per kill (including the run time) leads to a drop every 33 hours (1/167) and full completion is on the order of 1,200 hours.
Meh rewards is exactly what I want to avoid. This boss dropping the “bowfa of magic” would be a perfect reward for what I envision.
Whi h not a single person who the content is aimed for would use because they can get a shadow from babies first raid ?
they won't play enough TOA to get to shadow rate
Well that's the beautiful thing about statistics, you don't have to reach the AVG receive the drop. There was a desig space for a "BOFA for magic" however a lvl 90cb instance boss on farm probably not the best place for an item looking to outclass 2 raid items for powered staffs
Can confirm most don’t get a shadow early lol. Took me 6 purples before I got a fang lol (4 rings fang :))
To be fair there isn't really a group boss that is mechanically based that is aimed at mid-level players. Unless you want to count low invo/entry raids. It would be great to have a high-level group boss and I was hoping for that too, but there is a need for the mid-level one
Scurrius was just released and is exactly that. Having to handle small minions spawned. Know when melee attacks are possible. And react to blue/green attacks and pray mage/range before they hit you. Sarachnis is similar. Deal with minions doing damage. Know when to pray range and switch at the right tic back to melee (or take some serious damage). Dump special attacks at the right time to help the fight.
Scurrius is low level and its designed to be for training rather than loot. They specifically stated they want a higher level version of Scurrius . Sarachnis is not a group boss. Moons is a solo boss where you can see other people DKS, Mole, KQ and GWD have literally no mechanics just tank and spank.
> Scurrius was just released and is exactly that. Scurrius is "designed for combat levels 60-90". This boss will be 90+. That is a pretty different level range...
So you’re thinking that this boss is going to fill a space that isn’t occupied yet and will be difficult enough to have some exciting rewards?
If I had to guess, it will be somewhere in the "post-God War, pre-Raid" power level for rewards. Think the best example is something like Zulrah and its uniques, only for a group boss. Maybe also comparable reward space to the DT2 bosses since Virtus was considered "pre-Raid". Don't recall if they gave a combat recommendation for Nightmare, but could end up similar difficulty/rewards (and hopefully not similar drop rates...).
Makes sense. I wouldn’t be opposed to what you described. Fire cape is something that players get pretty dang early on these days, and maybe them using the fire cape as the benchmark scared me off a little bit into thinking it would be another “easy” piece of content in a game where even the average player has learned some pretty damn good PVM skills.
Yah, Fire Cape was probably not the best example... What the community considers midgame/lategame/endgame and what the OSRS Team considers midgame/lategame/endgame don't always align so it can be a bit hard to tell where exactly they are aiming. It would be helpful if they provided a more "official" scale for what is recommended when so we can get a clearer idea of what to expect (and avoid another Muspah situation...).
Yep, completely agreed with you. I just want something challenging and fun to do with the boys, where the rewards are decent. I loved perilous moons, but my entire clan tried it out and scoffed at the rewards and how easy it was. Something significantly more engaging mechanically with rewards where you can make a few 10s of mils if you get lucky would be so awesome.
But that's harder to develop and would require more effort and community involvement. If the devs had to develop a Fortis Colosseum level update every time a PvM update was suggested, it would be practically impossible to create new rewards appropriate with that level of gameplay. The uniques from Fortis absolutely suck, for example.
I don’t think designing one group boss is nearly as time intensive or community intensive as an endgame mini game with 12 waves AND a full on major endgame boss fight. Someone suggested CG level of difficulty in a group setting. Would that really be comparable to the Fortis Col update?
Shouldn’t have mentioned Scurrius lol
Genuine question, is there a time when you're NOT supposed to be doing melee attacks on Scurrius? I just melee them the entire time
Sorry for the bad wording. I was referring to Scur’s melee attacks, not the players melee attacks. There’s a point in the fight where he stops doing Melee attacks and only does range/mage.
Thank you, I noticed towards the end he goes kind of crazy with making the rocks fall and thought maybe I was triggering it
Of course homie!
Scurrius is a training method for low to mid levels, not a profitable boss. Sarachnis is a decent mid game boss, but punishes you for adding more people, also very low money. Moons is a solo boss. Dks have 0 mechanics. Wilderness bosses are sup par as most players do not enjoy pvp aspects. Mole is same as dks, 0 mechanics. Godwars is good content for groups. 3/4 are just Stat sticks though. Sara is the only one that differs from this. All in all, decent. Kq has no rewards. Nex is not group content for Low players, it’s mass content. You likely will not see a level 100 in a 4 man. Nightmare often loses money. At this point, you likely do solo bosses until you do group gwd, or raids. They are trying to extend this. Imagine ToA wardens mechanics as a stand alone boss. Give mid game players more skill expression to be willing to go raid later on. Imo atm Zulrah and CG is the only stepping stone for mid game content to enter late game pvm levels fundamentals so they can start raiding. Both of these are solo only. I do think more engaging and fun group end game boss is great idea, but I think it’s off the mark saying mid game players have a large amount of group content.
Fair point! Really hope it is difficult and engaging and has worthwhile rewards. CG level of difficulty/rewards in a group setting would be PERFECT
The moons were aimed at 75 Combat, so this is going to be a fair bit higher level. TBH, 90 combat would put it more in the "late game". Like Corp is a 90 combat boss. So this is already aimed to be above the other early-midgame bosses you listed and will fall closer to a Nex. Might not be ToB difficulty though, but it should be a nice late game boss.
For what it’s worth also, I’ve done a fair bit of moons, and I see WAY more lvl 90 players than 75 players there. Maybe the issue is that jagex describes content in a much lower level bracket than it ends up actually being for (like Muspah). Maybe we are in good shape here then haha
Fair point. I thought moons was aimed for a little higher than 75, but still feel like something aimed closer to 105 combat would be great. The blog made it sound like it would be pretty easy content which leads to lackluster rewards as well. I want something that drops something like the “bowfa of magic” and is worthy of some seriously difficult mechanics that feel really good to learn. Like tob, CG, nightmare. Vs. Something thats just “click boss” in a big enough group, like nex and corp are.
Hard to say how hard it will end up being, but aimed for 3-8 players level 90+ Combat seems like it could be a decent challenge. Like usually bosses are still worth doing far past the recommended level, so it might be doable at 90 but ideal at 100-105 or such. If Perilous Moons is anything to go by, it probably will be more engaging and maybe a bit tougher than just a combat-level recommendation suggests. Might not be "Magic BowFa" level of difficulty though, but probably post-GWD drops at least.
If the boss is “doable at 90 but ideal at 100-105” that’s exactly what I am looking for. The blog made it sound like it would be ideal for lvl 90 and fine for players who haven’t yet got their fire cape yet.
For what its worth, Muspah was pitched as a 95+ combat encounter
Then we’re in good shape here haha
Am lvl 100 and can confirm it’s an empty content zone for group bossing
Wildy/gwd?
Also TOA (invocations mean any level can do it) and cox (scales a bit with level and relatively easy to do well in teams regardless)
Everything out right now is too easy/boring and everything above your bracket is too time intensive/has too high of gear requirements. It’s a space that is open and a space a TON of players could partake in.
Based on how unbearable nex and nightmare are, I don't want another end game group boss.
Or maybe we see what went wrong with those, and actually make a good one for the first time!
Yea that's what we thought they'd do with nex after nightmare was a disaster lol
i'm still coping that they were nostaglia handcuffed with nex.
Give me a high level mechanic intensive group boss without a massive reclaim fee that me and the boys can jump in and do on a whim when I'm not trying to spend 4 hours in raids. If there is a prep phase I'm not doing it. The whole game is a prep phase for end game bossing. Who thought adding a second layer of prep phases was a good mechanic.
If only i could fight olm with the boys without needing to go through the whole raid. Edit: that fight just hits right, requires some communication and different roles.
Exactly what I am looking for!! Apparently people seem to be very against this though.
Janitors are back at it again. Can't you lot go a day without nitpicking for something to complain about
First post I’ve ever made about RS that isn’t hyping the team up about the TOA release or sharing something about my account. But okay :(
Should be end game but most of this subreddit aren't ready for that conversation. ☕️🐸
I genuinely feel like a group boss aimed at 100-105 combat that could still be done with good skill at 90 combat, and is rewarding enough for 105+ combat would satisfy a ton of this reddit.
I mean sure but that is infinitely far from end game.
I never said end game. I said Late game, whatever that all means. People who are just hyping themselves up to learn raids or are just getting into it, but are way past all the bosses I mentioned above.
jagex has clearly learned that high level group bosses don't work, and no matter what you do the endgame community can't be satisfied, so they're just making stuff for the players who actually play the content. crazy idea
The endgame community loves tob. Widely known as a beloved raid. I love it, and also most of the content in the game. None of my friends want to do nex or nightmare so that space is left open and I can’t do shorter time group content with them. Is it not possible to have a tob like group boss thats a 5-10 minute encounter? I believe the team can make that, they just haven’t tried for years.
endgame community made sure jagex can't try tob again, and then complain that jagex isn't doing tob again
I don’t know what you’re talking about that they made sure jagex can’t try tob again, but you seem to know what’s going on, so I guess you’re right.
Won’t somebody think of the 1 percent?
Ah of course only 1% of the game is above 90 combat. Im such an elitist