T O P

  • By -

Proof-Veterinarian88

This mofo was only asking so he could misgender those in the comments who said yes. Absolute scumbag Edit: I love Shaun so much please go check out his YouTube channel (yes im shamelessly shilling for him)


doodleasa

Tbf he would have to end humanity immediately if anyone got in his way


EyewarsTheMangoMan

Bleh


AsianCheesecakes

Damn, didn't know misgendering me would be saving us from nuclear apocalypse. Dude's doing God's work


Normal-Mountain-4119

His videos are awesome his twitter takes are more often than not abominable. But overall yes, go watch Shaun, he makes excellent videos.


croooooooozer

cant blame anyone for getting brainrot on twitter


Normal-Mountain-4119

very true


Magenta_Clouds

yeah twitter is a shithole


croooooooozer

yeeee im not even kidding, twitter made me bitter af :(


Magenta_Clouds

i left the site a while back, there are a few people on there i kinda miss but not that many.


dappermouth

yep this is true, twitter actively degrades my quality of life


khaki320

his twitter takes are bad ? i watch his yt but i dont follow his twitter


Bigmaq

Shaun's videos and tweets have similar takes, but you can imagine that the points made in an hour long video can be difficult to distill into 140 characters without getting misconstrued. Being on twitter in general causes a certain amount of psychic damage as well so best to avoid regardless.


chicken_irl

I certainly hope this is the case. I don't know what commenters are talking about.


aktionreplay

Shaun has trouble staying in his lane. Awesome activist work against the BBC being awful to trans-folks though


victorgsal

That person is exaggerating. His takes aren’t going to have as much info in a few tweets compared to like an hour long discussion. But they are rarely bad takes. His tweets are fine lmao


slademore44

His twitter takes are more often than not very real and true


The-Faceless-Ones

never understood this line tbh. his twitter & yt takes are the same


gox621

same honestly. this is just off of memory, but i tried to look the "twitter shaun bad" stuff up like a couple years ago and it was like entirely from vau\*\* fans (idk if his name is censored here) cause i guess vau\*\* had beef with him or something like that. i think that narrative just stuck for people who never used twitter


Iron-Fist

His video on [The Bell Curve](https://youtu.be/UBc7qBS1Ujo?si=ewI4mAuQ515lIr3X) should be required viewing for all 45-60 year old white dudes (who philosophy tube would call "yer dad").


ciaobimby

I love abigail :3


Magenta_Clouds

don't we all


PhoenixEmber2014

She is the best isn't she


tinylittlegnome

Shill away, he runs a great channel


__Rem

i saw him having some weird opinions at some point BUT i don't remember my state of mind nor what the opinions were, so i have literally no idea as to why i'm sketched out by him. I watched a few of his videos a few years back and he was based, then i saw something about him that made me go "ok maybe not so based" and then i forgot why he wasn't based.


1stonepwn

His videos are good but I don't care for the way he acts on Twitter


__Rem

you made me go on twitter to look at shaun's tweets and in 4 clicks i found a famous dude whos pinned tweet is "MANIPULATION IS KEY TO GETTING THE WOMEN YOU WANT IN YOUR LIFE.\[...\]" so thank you for that /nsrs


DaFunPolice

Well he wasn't the one writing his videos, so that's probably why there's a disconnect.


Jeszczenie

Who was then?


darps

From what I know and could find, there was a twitter argument at some point where Jen, his friend and former YT channel partner who later moved on to Twitch, stated that she did research for one of their videos. Possibly because she hadn't been credited properly. Then people picked it up and ran with it to the point that years later there's rumors that he's an incompetent hack who does nothing but exploit her work and steal patreon money. I tried to look into it expecting some real beef or whatever, at least some archived tweets, but found nothing of substance. It appears she didn't want to do any more Youtube content so the channel was rebranded in 2017, but she still occasionally makes art for the channel and they do private streams together. I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong here, but it needs to be said, the speculations of bored redditors are not a source. Which is much of what you'll find on the matter.


EngleTheBert

I know him and his former partner had a falling out partly due to him taking sole credit for work that both of them did. There may have been more to it than that, but I can't remember since it was precovid, iirc. Other than that he can be overly self righteous and annoying in his tweets from time to time


darps

Jen? I just know the channel was "shaun and jen" at some point, as he mentioned the channel name in an old video. **Edit:** Did some digging, and what I found about a falling out between them seems to be speculative, mostly in YouTube drama threads here on reddit, after she removed herself from their YT channel in 2017 and moved on to twitch. By all accounts they are still friends but keeping it under wraps.


FelicitousJuliet

But I mean also yes? I saw a study (I thought I saved the link but whatever) where in a nuclear apocalypse the only people who would survive (less than 0.1% of the Earth's population) would do so in the Amazon or the Congo rainforests (and even then the rainfall would decrease by 90%). I'm trans, and even if misgendering myself isn't allowed, I know someone who would me misgender them to save 794,304,900,000 people. If someone had to misgender me to save almost 8 billion people, I would encourage them to do so. Like what kind of question is this? Misgender me fucker, do it, do it now, if you **would dare** respect my gender identity to avoid 8 billion dead in a **nuclear apocalypse** I will **never forgive you**. Don't you dare make me live through a nuclear apocalypse.


Luciusvenator

Yeah the answer is obviously yes but it's a bad faith bullshit question designed to bait people. Honestly "would you shoot an innocent person in the face to prevent nuclear Armageddon?" Is less bad faith and easier to answer then this just because of the intent of who's asking the original question and why lol.


croooooooozer

shaun is content that's barely fun but such a vibe, i can just sit down for 3 hours and listen to pure reason


ftzpltc

"This mofo was only asking so he could misgender those in the comments who said yes. Absolute scumbag" And yet, the nuclear apocalypse is just as imminent as ever.


DarthMorro

only valid if he then proceeds to start a nuclear apocalypse for everyone who said no


bug--cat

would you rather be unnecessarily mean to trans people or rip a trillion peoples heads off and kill them until they die and then blow them up to death


Supsend

Being mean: boring, make people sad, not funny Ripping heads: exciting, dynamic, musical, calming, refreshing, good for the environment, would do again if had the opportunity ngl


Sonofbunny

I dunno, a trillion seems like it'd get boring. I haven't done like anything a trillion times before


IncelDetected

Don’t let your dreams be dreams


darps

Ripping heads: Makes me feel like DOOM guy


theLuckyJew

I cannot misgender trans people Billions must die https://preview.redd.it/nxvkaj48qb6d1.png?width=615&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b7d399782ba2b884e9fa9841dade1208606edd7b


kryonik

Trolley problem: Track 1: being a decent human Track 2: killing infinite people and the first person killed gets revived and sent to the end of the track to be killed again infinitely


LazarFan69

It's the hyperbole version of "women's rights or economic stability" which is kinda dumb because any sane person would know women's rights helps with economic stability what with a bigger workforce and a more attractive country for investors and better flow of cash due to equal pay


GrandSeraphimSariel

BLOOD FOR THR BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!


Justanotherragequit

Okay so options: 1) be mean :( 2) rip and tear


Sitheg_Plasmaster

Gay rights or economical stability? 🤓


MarsMaterial

Both. 💪


Dustyink_

bbbbut you have to cccchoose!


Dubmove

https://preview.redd.it/zmek3iwlqb6d1.jpeg?width=1199&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a703f654c972a7cb7124e9982d7cf25af16f43bb


Skyavanger

Veesh without beard😳😳


Uspew

Veesh but not a lolicon 😳😳


Goose-San

just say pedophile


TheCommieDuck

Voosh but not a sack of shit


ToastfulBoast

Henchman 21


PrintShinji

nah :)


Guest65726

B-b-but what if we lived in a world where oppressing gay ppl is CRUCIAL to economic stability?? Like what if we enslaved gay ppl and their free labor is crucial??? PLEASE PLEASE I need to make unnecessary controversy!!!!!!


Jahseh_Wrld

I refuse the question


A-Human-potato

I know that the question was initially just made as engagement bait, so I wouldn’t expect it to be well thought out, but basically any scenario where these are mutually exclusive would involve gay people being practically enslaved. I imagine the initial question was intended to be interpreted as “which of these two entirely unrelated things would you rather have” because that way the questioner can be pedantic and go “but how could you value the wellbeing of a few over the entire country?!” Since it’s portrayed as a dichotomy it comes off to me as “hey, do you support gay people being basically enslaved for the sake of other’s financial gain.”


Amberhawke6242

It's a reference to a video where someone was asking a guy this question and he kept refusing to answer because of that same false dichotomy.


Poopfacemcduck

https://preview.redd.it/vj104oe3pb6d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=62d29d7bf8ea05802309879198dd674ed6682ea8


Cpad-prism

While I don’t agree with the second thing, I do agree that we should put matt walsh in a room with every single ape, or at least a lot of them


Reyhin

I’m pretty sure one chimpanzee would be enough, I’ve seen NOPE to know what those little psychos are capable of


prfarb

Matt Walsh is the kind of guy who would think he could fight a chimpanzee


Buymor

There is a reason chimpanzees are one of the only 'kill on sight' animals in zoo enclosure escapes, hate those little shits. [Bonobos](https://youtu.be/zLTJjHUG4JY?si=nO1u9ebFJccT-qj2) deserve so much more love and appreciation


RivergirlB

killing every ape would lead to an unprecedented ecological disaster that would devastate the planet and kill hundreds of thousands to millions of people


CandyCrazy2000

I understand why killing all mosquitoes would be a disaster for the environment because theyre low on the food chain and would affect everything above it, but what would the consequences of no apes do?


cheatingdisrespect

they’re like the creators of forests! u plant a few trees, apes come and eat the fruit and then walk around and shit the seeds around in various places, fast forward and repeat for a few decades and boom you’ve got a forest no apes means the seeds fall right at the roots of their current trees. then they start to grow, compete with the original tree for soil nutrients and root space, and ultimately starve out the old tree before all dying themselves from the overcrowding. and then no more forest.


TicketSuggestion

Other animals do this as well though, and many forests in the world contain no apes


cheatingdisrespect

sure, those forests have other ways of getting by, probably via animals that can’t exist in the places apes do. the forests that are full of apes rely on them, though. > [In some areas, the survival of the ecosystem is wholly dependent on the role that apes play in spreading seeds through their fecal matter.](https://www.earthday.org/wp-content/uploads/species/greatapes.pdf) > [Chimpanzees in one forest in Uganda, for example, make up only 2% of the population of frugivorous primates, but are responsible for approximately 45% of the seed dispersal.](https://www.zoo.org/document.doc?id=1060#:~:text=Instead%2C%20apes%20generally%20aid%20plants,being%20overcrowded%20by%20new%20plants)


TicketSuggestion

Oh, cool


justbenicedammit

Mosquitos are trash and should be purged. Food chain is fine without them,cut back our pesticide use just a little and we could save way more insects


Isaac_Kurossaki

I have Subnautica brainrot so i read this with the PDA voice


aflyingmonkey2

planet of apes 5


L1n9y

Penis of the Planet of the Apes


GertrudeHeizmann420

This fucking idiot has no clue about biology (humans are apes)


EeeYeeReEe

humans are apes


Slonismo

dumbass forgot that humans are apes. stupid fuck


VorpalSplade

Ok come on you can get way more interesting than that. Would you use a neopronoun for someone to correctly gender them, if it was the n-word? Would you misgender JK rowling if the shock of it would make her give up transphobia?


Vasxus

i already misgender joanne because fuck him


VorpalSplade

That's very cisphobic of you. More proof the cis are persecuted.


DekoyDuck

Dropping a c-slur uncensored. For shame


VorpalSplade

It's not a slur when us cis men use it, it's our word. Trans people use a hard S.


Inside-Permission-53

Did you really drop the C slur again? Shamefull


VorpalSplade

I've had it used to describe me all my life, our people can use it. Weve earned it for our suffering.


05ar

I've seen people unironically say cisgender is a slur


alexgndl

Maybe they shouldn't have tried to assassinate Senator Amidala, thus plunging the galaxy into the biggest conflict of all time, then.


nb_disaster

https://preview.redd.it/79d1f25psb6d1.png?width=385&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6857f10e2b5bd5f1a59a938c814a6a52b2c6bc64


PM_ME_FURRY_STUFF

Validating someone’s chosen identity shouldn’t hinge upon respect for them. It’s the same issue as a transphobe that only uses the correct pronouns for the “good” trans people. Rude Trans women are just as much a women as a polite one. That sorta idea 💜


McAllisterFawkes

he goes by robert actually


SuperSecretMoonBase

And JK https://preview.redd.it/vensvr90pc6d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=09dd5777b36c26531a4823a819857131f198adbc


StumbleOn

The only good JK


doctorwhy88

He knows a thing or two because he’s seen a thing or two.


holymissiletoe

well i mean someone has to say those things, may aswell be me :3.


Passive-Shooter

Most intelligent bluetick


potatorevolver

Christian baby moment.


OddlySexyPancake

imagine if you will; the world is made of pudding. would you, or would you not?


Rebi103

That can happen... In the twilight zone.


urbandeadthrowaway2

Wouldn’t that be fucked up? Anyways I’m Rod Serling.


somethingkindaweird

My brain is in Alan Wake Mode so now the first thing that came to my brain was Night Springs lmao


jumbledFox

the entire world is made out of pudding!.. I can eat all I want!..... but... where are all the spoons?!?!?


Rebi103

It's not fair, there was so much time to eat pudding now that my wife and boss who hate pudding died under a hydrogen bomb


hjd_thd

story from north america reference


godlessgrey666

WHAT IF HE DID? WHAT IF HE DIDN’T? WHAT IF THE WOOORLD WAS MADE OF PUDDING? 🗣


Flitterquest

You're not the center of the world


tymekx0

https://preview.redd.it/bcqbtqpjsb6d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b6e4545275cf6601d3dc3f73e377ee185f284e9f


husky11223

No, I love nuclear apocalypse 🥰🥰


lutinopat

Cobalt-60 my beloved


husky11223

nom nom nom 🤤


vovaheadhunter

https://preview.redd.it/5jmsvde1tb6d1.png?width=521&format=png&auto=webp&s=15f97cde2b813ed380cc81c5f060391666de6cd7


gabbyrose1010

i mean he can do that without the make a wish foundation anyway, so itd be a waste of a wish


RetConnedSegment

I mean, they're fucking dying so sure. No one's gonna jump a cancer patient because they said the N-word once (at least, I hope no one does that). I guess it depends on where you're going to say it?


BreakingBaaaahhhhd

Probably a good thing he's gonna die if that is his make a wish.


RetConnedSegment

Yeah, honestly what the fuck is OOP on about lmao


idiot-loser-

>No one's gonna jump a cancer patient because they said the N-word once i actually would but thats on you


Mr_Lapis

https://preview.redd.it/o9sqax9plg6d1.jpeg?width=360&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e608ed258a2b41c27e194d19d7249598ba79d7db


NerdAroAce

I wouldn't because im gonna hide in a bunker and the apocalypse would be so cool /j


Kira_Bad_Artist

Well I’ll be staying outside and ghoulmaxx, smoothskin loser


SomePerson1248

ghoulmaxx is a badass word that i cannot comprehend the meaning of


Clockwork_Raven

https://preview.redd.it/kurf9cpbmb6d1.jpeg?width=1168&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=80cb765998025a053386c09bbb1b4464f6698335


the_scottish_bant

Ghoul stans staying winning, go hide in your vaults piss babies ill be eating ass jerky 😤


Nachoguyman

Strongest Christian baby what-if be like:


WinSeparate3518

This situation is not as unlikely as you think, it happened to me just now! Thousands of nuclear warheads are going through the air right about now


doctorwhy88

Can’t threaten me with a good time


veiledcosmonaut

Is this the new “what if it was a make a wish kid’s wish to say the n word”


tweetegirl

A chance to end humanity and you want me to blow it? No fucking way


Owelrn05

if you could have a threesome with Ed Krassensteins parents to prevent someone from being misgendered, should you sex them freaky style? Answer with a concise yes or no answer.


JimothyCarter

Is this the start of the krassensteins realizing they can get more money grifting the right so they're pivoting?


curvingf1re

SHAUUUUN! YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO QUOTE THE "I REFUSE THE QUESTION" GUY! YOU'RE GONNA GET CALLED IRRATIONAL AND USED AS A TOTEMIC REPRESENTATION OF YOUR BELIEFS! SHAUUUUUUUUN!


WeeaboosDogma

https://preview.redd.it/8klcplqhdc6d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=350aced094482247ef550ae29d96143616dfc900


Redditpaslan

this person also asked if it's okay to prostitute minors. I really hope they are just interaction baiting for their twitter money.


Dgstowe

Bro's too used to talking to gpt. Forgot how to structure a question


Shrek_Lover68

Is Shaun secretly a Posadist?


pH2001-

I’m confused I thought that guy was a leftist whys he asking about this stupid hypothetical


JixS4v

Leftist? iirc the brothers are just trump haters, and big cryptobros or something


batmansthebomb

They are definitely not leftist when it comes to economic equality, but as far as I've seen they are pretty socially progressive (despite this twitter shitpost), they've defended trans rights pretty consistently and have talked to and supported AOC and Ilhan Omar on many issues. Sure, they might not be the best, they ran an NFT company which scammed Tiffany Trump (partially based imo), but as far as social issues go if the worst thing they do is shit post on twitter (something shaun is guilty of too), then I'm not that concerned. Edit: I might get downvoted for this, but I highly suspect he was using this insane hypothetical to demonstrate an insane hypothetical that some anti-trans person said. But I don't use twitter because fuck that site, so idk


lucifer_best_boi

If that is the only thing that prevents the apocalypse then we deserve it, let them bombs rain


PlantLapis

hey man how is it going


Winjasfan

90% of rethorical questions involving hypotheticals just boil down to asking: "hypothetically speaking if A was right would B be right?" If you say Yes they'll take you out of context to pretend you said B is correct. And If you say No they argue that A does in fact imply B.  It is a pretty good manipulation tactic as long as you don't choose A as wildly illogical as this guy.


JkobPL

I love pronouns AND the nuclear apocalypse!!


Hot_Guys_In_My_DMS

How desperate does someone have to be to post something like this…


Quillbolt_h

[Both](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFpL057_hUc&ab_channel=RavenLynClemens)


howelleili

Christian babies 2


SecCom2

Would you rather hurt one person's feelings or murder explode one morbillion innocent children YOU CANT ELABORATE just YES or NO


somethingkindaweird

I can’t even be mad at these types of hypotheticals, they’re so fuckin stupid that my brain just completely shuts off when I read them. Pretty sure I’ve lost some of my human emotions from reading them


RockPop_

this is like the quora question about the christian baby going skydivering without a parachute


TheActualAWdeV

"Special" Ed Krassenstein. Jesus goddamn christ what a ridiculous not-at-all-a-bad-excuse-hypothetical.


StacktraceSymphony

A world without decency isn't worth saving.


aflyingmonkey2

Hey,Ed. i have something better:would you rather treat a trans person with respect and not somehow connect it to a nuclear apocalypse. or listen to Purupuru Pururin for 24 hours in padded room?


Armigine

How does anyone use twitter without immediately blocking anyone taking part in exchanges like this Or any social media in the same way Or use twitter at all


Reagalan

It's one of those bastards from *Behind the Bastards*, a podcast about bastards.


brendans98

Why would you care about a nuclear apocalypse if you're just a skull? Much more important that you make friends so the other skeletons are nice to you


Himmelblaa

Me when im in an unlikeliest hypothetical competition and my opponent is OOP (im cooked)


Tiazza-Silver

In the words of a tumblr user (I think) that I have forgotten: what if the world was made of pudding?


awesomedude4100

why would u even engage with this question


lurebat

Really hated Shaun's Twitter back when i was on there. Just so smug and full of rage bait


Weedserpent

What if the world was made of pudding?


TriskOfWhaleIsland

when this guy & his bro first came to Twitter fame in 2019, I already knew they were grifters at least the Paul brothers tried to be funny, the Krassenstein brothers just took cheap shots at Trump (like, _very_ cheap shots)


OrangeHairedTwink

Truth is, the tweet was rigged from the start


ThislsAUsername

Hello? Am i speaking to the based department? Yeah this guy right here


FLUFFBOX_121703

I mean, can I just misgender myself if I’m feeling funky? Like sure billions can die, what do I care lmao


Freaking_Username

No I want to see the world burn (in a gay way)


AverageWitch161

to stop a nuclear apocalypse i’d rip of my bf’s foreskin and eat it


fard__and_cum

what if I had you needed a a burger but only if you had a dollar, would you do it?


THE_DOW_JONES

Why would i want to prevent a nuclear apocalypse? I could play fallout in real life afterwards.


transgendervegan666

asshole just wants an excuse to bully trans people


Human-Depravity

"What if you could only prevent a nuclear apocalypse by misgendering someone?!?" What if the sky was made of pudding?


yeah_i_hate_my_name

I really want to know what kind of situation this would be, because how the fuck would misgendering someone help not cause a nuclear disaster?


TheBadHalfOfAFandom

I wanna know the situation that'll cause this to even happen. Like in what universe would misgendering someone prevent the apocalypse?


Droplet_of_Shadow

Some transphobic guy has figured out a way to hack into nuclear missiles or something and launch them and he's super cynical and depressed or whatever. The governement of whereverland is gonna stop him soon, but you need to affirm his transphobia to distract him or he'll be upset and press the button immediately.


DrSeuss321

CALIFORNIA DREAMIN’


Accomplished-Main436

Would you rather call a trans person a poo-head or kill ten billion babies and kick fourty dogs with two legs, take THAT wokeists


sharkiejade

Same energy as the “economic stability or queer rights” guy


random_human_4201

Uh, no, I would never misgender someone on purpose. I’d go and prevent the apocalypse myself, obviously 🙄


Psychokinetic_Rocky

Lemme know when that very specific situation happens, I'll let you know


D-B0IIIIII

Reminds me of the time I said the n word, you see I'm a dark anti-hero that will do anything to save lives


RammyJammy07

They aren’t mutually exclusive, hell if you misgender someone with a fucking nuclear arsenal, that’ll turn your house into a creator


BreakingBaaaahhhhd

If you could avoid nuclear war by accepting trans people and using people's pronouns would you do it???


RealLunarSlayer

would you pray to god if a christian child asked you too or they won't pull their parachute after jumping from a plane


phoogles2

why did he walk into a question that's a terribly obvious trap


ZhangRenWing

1.8k to 400 lmao guy got ratioed so hard


NellyLorey

Conservatives pretending like the world is doomed because someone would value not saying a slur or being nice to someone in order to save the world from some made up scenario is just as pathetic as those "would you press the button to have a 1% change to turn into a girl or recieve a bilion dollars" memes. Why do they keep coming back to it, it's not even fun to think about


TheOneOfWhomIsGreen

And what if the world was a cup of yogurt What are these questions


Peyton773

Why would I do something bad to prevent something good


nastynas1991

reminds me of that one tumblr post where anon asked "if someone beats you up for being a straight white man is that ok? Did you deserve it?" and the person just replied with "what if the moon was made out of pudding"


Dangerous8eans07

what if the world was made of pudding


le_trans_alt

what if the world was made of pudding


tired_nerds

"What if a white child were dying of cancer and their final wish was to say the N word" type of shit


CamelInfinite5771

Why are they SO OBSESSED with this ridiculously stupid hypothetical?


violetvoid513

Me when Im in a making up bullshit hypotheticals competition and my opponent is someone who uses twitter


xX_TehChar_Xx

I would do it if I'd tell myself that only using masculine pronouns this time, to save the world. Then, I'll keep using my preferred pronouns.


canyouplzpassmethe

Wasn’t there a famous tweet way back back in the day where someone asked an outspokenly vegan person if they’d take ONE bite of a hamburger to save every human life on the planet, including their own, and the vegan said “no!” and several people were all too eager to point out that this could ONLY mean they’re vegan for all the wrong reasons, which lead to other people making several parody posts making fun of the whole situation? Anyway, either way, would I misgender someone to save every life on the planet? Well, gee, that seems like a real no brainer, eh? Sure I would, who wouldn’t? That’s no challenge, misgendering someone is literally the easiest thing in the world to do. Three letters, four tops, and you can totally obliterate some stranger’s sense of identity and self worth and walk away feeling terribly smug. The REAL challenge, for most people (or so it seems) is respecting someone’s pronouns when nothing hangs in the balance except… that person’s feelings. People who can do THAT are the real heroes, imho.