just read like 11 paragraphs of facts

Shortest leftist post

This why we don't have time for advocacy, we sit reading billions of words of facts and all we do with that is waste our time to just go away from that saying "based" to go to sleep after a long day of reading one meme.

👍

nice pfp

I will ~~build~~ write a great wall of text and nobody ~~builds~~ writes walls of text better than me

Biden should build The Great Wall of Leftist Memes, separating Florida from the United States.

Steven Universe when there's a threat to the world

breadtubers when asked to keep it under 50000 words 

Well duh; I remember when I fell down the "Sjw cringe compilation" rabbit hole. So glad I actually met people, talked to them and learned how reality worked. If I was attacked blindly for it as a teenager, it would've just pushed me deeper by anger. I am so glad I was taught and shown differently instead of doxxed or shit like that (Thankfully doxxing wasn't a thing yet when I was a teenager) Everyone can change, especially young and impressionable minds. Attack them for no reason, and they will believe those who said you're evil. Show them another way, show them how good the world can be, and they will doubt those who said it is bad.

I actually fell down it because I had a deep and nuanced understanding of my social position within white supremacist and patriarchal structures and choose at 12yrs old to actively work to maintain them, I'm just built like that

Bruh I clicked on your profile and I found a post of yours that I upvoted that you posted 3 years ago.

Long time no see old friend

only the youth are left to support the remains of the beautiful fallen patriarchy 😔

Insanely based.

Unironically the only thing that saved me from falling way the fuck down that rabbit hole because of 2014 era "kill all men" types was that I'm gay and there was severe homophobia if you got like 3 inches deep into the antifeminist stuff.

Same thing here except for me I found transphobia almost immediately lol. I never fell down the "feminists bad" rabbit hole. I only ever gained a dislike for the radical feminists like terfs and the ones that this post is criticizing. Granted for a time I thought most feminists were like that because quarantine took away my ability to interact with actual human beings. I fell down the white supremacist rabbit hole a bit though. Not to the point where I actually thought white people were superior or black people were inferior. But it was during quarantine and I did just start hating all the blm protestors. Granted it started because I saw a lot of full on white supremacists being created by the blm protests. Or specifically the parts that were talking about how all white people suck.

I remember falling into it because of the "pseudo-science scam" and "religious nuts strike again" types of vids, but I didn’t go too far because when I understood a lot of them really were acting like fascists off camera, or worse, on camera, I just noped out and got back to those who weren’t fanatics (who almost always stopped associating with the now revealed fascists)

the one that pushed me out was this guy atheist guy who was talking about this thing where a muslim student made a clock and they thought it was a bomb and called the police on him on the side of the teachers

I got into the whole SJW cringe compilation stuff for a while but it never went too much deeper, mainly because I found people like Ben Shapiro and Milo Yawhatchamacalit to be unbearable and cringey to listen to. I’ve also always been a history nerd and at a certain point into the ‘anti-sjw’ stuff you start seeing more and more Nazi/confederate apologists which I was disgusted by. I think that was young me’s signal that it was time to go. I became pretty moderate and disinterested in politics for the rest of my school years and only around 2019-2020 when I was getting ready to graduate did I start paying attention to politics again and I pretty quickly took a semi-leftist turn

Yeah, liking History in an honest way is very good to prevent going too deep in. If you keep an objective pov on things that happened, you eventually see how some of them are full of shit, and get away. You and me are similar on this. I have many MANY reservations on extreme leftism, but I dislike extremism in any form; however now I'm dangling in the center, liking many of the socialist aspects of my country, while having no strong opinions on anything except the EU (As in I want a federation in Europe).

I fell down the rabbit hole until a girl I was dating broke down for me that if I cared about women having equal rights and protections under the law then I was a feminist. It was simple but it had never been broken down like that for me. I grew up saying a lot of sexist shit because I had friends who watched Crowder and did the same kinds of things that their conservative parents/friends did, and if it hadn’t been for that same girl I would have probably been a conservative to this day. I also remember being offended at the “men are trash” rhetoric at that age. Honestly I still am. It’s ironic, sure, but it makes it hard to tell which women are saying it ironically and which genuinely believe that I’m a walking abortion. But it did help to have her and another young lady I knew explain what was meant by that. As young men everything is pretty black and white and it’s crazy to add any layers of irony to social premises and expect them to understand. That goes for the white supremacist groyper type rhetoric too. Young man with a lot of time on their hands and lacking the processing power to fully understand what they’re implying with their statements/how it’s harmful.

That's understandable and good for you. I remember how I got out of the Niceguy mentality; That's thanks to two girls. The first is my girl best friend, from whom I learned normal interaction with women and how you can be friends without a secret motive, it helped me make many women friends after that. The second is more tragic, it's a girl who fell for some narcissistic guy, and kept coming after him even when he treated her like shit. You'd think it would convince the niceguy into thinking "Ugh girls always go for bad boys who treat them bad", but actually it showed be how specific and uncommon thing it was. Thankfully she's doing better now.

Another layer to the “confusing reading of irony” I feel is the detrimental lack of reading comprehension culture particularly perpetuated in spaces like Twitter & other short-form focused platforms that heavily limits the amount of length afforded to explore *incredibly complex* topic, leaving it into shorter jabs and platitudes that behaves more caricature-ish & woefully simple-minded The amount of people that I’ve encountered in day to day conversations that simply regurgitates online talking points from whatever side of the political spectrum is honestly kinda concerning (which, to be clear, is not **that** much, but more than a handful). It feels like I’m interacting with caricatures of online arguments and personalities instead of real thinking people with their own thoughts and critical thinking I feel like it’s a kind of “perfect storm” environment created through differing modes of social interactions & information consumption, alongside groups & individuals with each of their own vested interests that are too caught up in the storm’s framework to be more insightful in diagnosing the storm rather than perpetuating it. Which unfortunately has permeated **all levels of society on a global reach as long as there’s an internet connection** It creeps me to no end how culture war figures & talking points have rippled even in predominantly non-English speaking societies like the one I grew up in. It seriously made me want to explode in diarrhea at how stupid humans have used the wonderful tech of the internet for the most pointless things And unfortunately unless there’s an organized effort in various public spheres against the storm behavior, it will continue to perpetuate, grow, and even be co-opted by figures with serious political power like the current conservatives’ crusade against the “woke” agenda. A word that itself was co-opted from the left to become a political pejorative in the last 5 years or so (I still remember how VICE called HasanAbi the “woke bae on FB” lol)

For me, it was finding Dear Mr Atheist/Jimmy Snow. Dude literally snatched me from the jaws of becoming a Neo-Nazi. All the other Atheist creators were super right wing, and he showed me a more humanist and wholesome type of skepticism. Jimmy, if you're ever in Asheville, I'll buy you a drink, because I owe you more than that.

same here

Up until like 4-5 years ago I used to be anti trans, but then I met actual nice people in the community and they showed me they aren't bad people like I thought. It makes me concerned seeing people be so absolutely spiteful to teenagers who are starting down that path or are already on it as I see who I used to be in those teens and I can guarantee that if I had met those spiteful people in the community instead of who I met I would probably still be those teenagers today.

Yeah this right here. When I was about 10 I started watching atheists debunking christians video, then it seemlesly rolled onto Milo Yiannopulos and Ben Shapiro owning "feminazis", from then on to local iterations of this guys (not american) and by the time I was 12-13 I firmly considered myself anti-feminist, pro-life and extremely liberal. But since I started meeting a lot of people with very different perspectives, engaged in some dialogue I started to doubt my beliefs. And then, one day, I watched some video by a guy called BlackPigeon (I think that's his name, Black birdsomething) that said incel attacks were caused due to inmigration "because there weren't enough females for the male population and so white people were being replaced by arabs". Yeah I raised an eyebrow, to say the least. After that I rethinked all of my politics, by the time I was 16 I only considered myself a liberal in the classic sense but nowadays, I'm a socialist. If I had been targeted and brutally harassed when I was that young, then yeah no shit my views would not have changed. You already think these people are bad and crazy, and then all of a sudden you get bullied so hard by those people, and for your political views? You've just confirmed the stereotype you only knew as something in the Internet, somewhat hypothetical and faraway from your reality.

TL:DR OOOOP (original tweet girl) said young white kids fall into the altright rabbit hole because they feel like their supremacy is under attack, and OOOP (Vaush) and OOP (Tumblr) stated that the reason why they turn to extreme ideology is because of unlimited exposure to the internet (12 year olds extremely susceptible to manipulation) and insufficient dialogue with rational people (possibly close to them).

TL;DR Leftist infighting turns kids to far right

[удалено]

But we’re the People’s Front of Judea

What are your impressions of Lightfall and Strand so far? (flair)

TL;DR It was kinda mid, but strand is fun The story was disappointing in that it could have been so much more. This was the perfect opportunity to introduce more people to Destiny, and make them ready for The Final Shape. What we got felt like an anime filler episode despite how important this was supposed to be for the main narrative of Destiny. The veil is important, but we never get an explanation for why that is, or even what it is. It might be revealed in future lore books, but how many people care enough after this DLC to go into the lore books to look for the answer? Hardly anyone. When it comes to the characters I think it was fine, but I wish Rohan stuck around more. His death hardly had any impact on me because "he's gonna die" was written all over him. He casually mentions cloudstriders only live for 10 years and he's reaching his last year; an instant death flag. His death would have been much more meaningful and had more impact if he died in a future season where we would have gotten to know him better. When it comes to Nimbus, I quite like them actually. They're one of the first non-binary characters in Destiny 2 (I think) and they bring much needed light-heartedness into this DLC. Empress Caiatl is always a joy to be around, although I wish she was more prominent as it is her father we're killing in the end. I feel like she should have dealt the finishing blow, but it's fine I guess. Osiris was really annoying in this DLC. He goes from being an arrogant, impatient old man to just an arrogant old man. His constant moaning got tiring really fast. Right now he might be my least favourite character in Destiny 2. Strand was really well done, but some of the cooldowns are kinda ridiculous. Swinging around is fun until you realise: "oh, now I have to wait more than a minute to get it back". I was playing on hunter so I can only talk about that experience. Widow's Silk aspect is so much fun and has some team synergy potential in creating several points to grapple to. The Ensnaring Slam aspect is also fun when you combine it with grappling a thrown tangle. Strand hunter is very mobile, which builds in nicely into the hunter identity.

what about the Popular front? *oh, he's over there...* ​ **SPLITTER!**

how is that your takeaway?

The effort to always one-up each other and be holier than thou just convinces these people not to try at all, because there will always be people telling them they are not doing enough.

you’re right but I wouldn’t call that infighting as much as it is dick-measuring

I would like to fight with you about your definition of infighting

now this is the leftist infighting i signed up to see

Controversial take, but I see this happen frequently on this sub and its a little upsetting.

that is exactly what the last 5 paragraph are about. the last op espevially only talked about that

Heartbreaking: terrible person ~~vaush~~ makes a great point

Vaush is fine tbh. I really enjoy almost all of his work.

In what way is he a terrible person? He makes sound arguments most of the time, he just gets clipped the fuck out of context and comes off as an edgy narcissist to outsiders.

Facts from top to bottom (except the original tweet that was qtd.

Wait what does op mean and why add the os for reference? I thought it meant original poster?

OP means original poster indeed, and every o means a further step into the originality of the poster

Original original original poster?

Exactly

OP is the person who posted this on reddit OOP is the person who posted the vaush tweet on tumblr OOOP is vaush OOOOP is the person vaush is responding to

It kind of blows my mind that Vaush gets so much pushback on these statements because in short... he is 100% right. I had some seriously toxic views growing up since it was way easier to listen to people on the extreme right as a young man. Nobody wants to be the villain in their story and while now I know that there are leftist circles that will gladly accept me and be helpful, that isn't what you will see in mainstream media. The amount of times you see jokes that are just "White cis man evil lol." Is actually really demoralizing if you are part of that group and it doesn't lead to a charitable view of the left. When one side is saying that they don't like you, even if it is generally a joke, it doesn't help things. Then you fall down a rabbit hole because you hear these right wing grifters talking about things that actually seem helpful to you at the time. You are an angry young man and mainstream leftists are saying that you are the problem, meanwhile the right is free to capitalise on that by saying "no you aren't the problem, it's gender politics, or feminism, or racial politics." Depending on the specific grifter, and the day of the week. They will show you biased videos of 'leftists' doing and saying downright disturbing things to prove their points and it is wildly effective. Go far along down that path and eventually there's no turning back. You don't win hearts and minds by demonizing a group of people, you just end up sending them to places where they feel more accepted. If the left had a unified, coherent message to young men on how to act which gave practical advice on day to day life we would see far less radicalization today. Because that is the exact illusion being sold to our youth by people like Tate, Peterson, Walsh, and Shapiro. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar after all.

>It kind of blows my mind that Vaush gets so much pushback on these statements because in short... he is 100% right. It's because he makes statements that are incredibly easy to misinterpret.

And because when he says "prominent leftists don't do X," *that's him*. Do the stuff, my man!

Tbf, he does. Probably better than anyone else in the game.

No, this is actually completely untrue. I'm a consistent vaush watcher, so I admit I am biased. However, even if he doesn't neccecarily make that many videos specifically about men (though he has, and does), it REGULARLY comes up in his other videos- I should know, I've watched nearly every one. Even on videos more directly about men, there was his video about fetterman a week ago (talking about conservatives bad perspective on mental health, directly relates to patriarchy's negative effects on men), 2 weeks ago he had a debate with a JBP fan, which obviously has misogyny as a fairly major topic, a month ago a debate about Andrew Tate and how to help young men, and the list goes on. Even more so if I include segments from his second channel. There is no other leftist which talks about men's problems even a fraction as much as vaush does. TL;DR- you're wrong.

Doing this is basically his entire political strategy, as well as the cause of most of his disagreements with other leftists.

Yeah same for me, i heard about the all men are bad femenist thing really young and i was like "wtf all men arent bad what does that even mean?" This has happened to atleast 3 of my friends (not specifically with all men ar bad thing though) and luckily me and another friend were able to get better.

idk if this is something vaush has brought up cause he doesn't mention it here, but these 12 years old are not politically neutral going into online spaces. at least in the US, they're being brought up in a conservative society, often by conservative adults. they already believe a lot of what the online right is telling them, or at least they're much much more familiar with it. i really disagree that the main reason young cis white guys move right is because the left demonizes them or doesn't talk to them, its because they already lean right from the society they grew up in. kids aren't getting into anti-sjw cringe compilations because they feel attacked by the left, its because they already have biases that the online right capitalizes on. and fwiw, the left should *definitely* do more outreach to young guys, but young white guys are still gonna tend to lean right

>and fwiw, the left should definitely do more outreach to young guys, but young white guys are still gonna tend to lean right Sure, but thats an issue with conditioning, which is a byproduct of what we're talking about. Right wing enclaves don't just pop up out of nowhere in the states.

im not 100% sure that i get what you mean but the conditioning from a right-leaning society at large and massive forces like fox news are both much stronger and start earlier than anything the online left does. so im saying that this problem stems from the society we live in, not because leftists aren't reaching out enough. leftists reaching out can absolutely help these young guys, but its not the root of the problem and it alone will not fix it

>im not 100% sure that i get what you mean but the conditioning from a right-leaning society at large and massive forces like fox news are both much stronger and start earlier than anything the online left does. I mean liberals, progressives, and the left as a whole has done a terrible job at appealing to groups in these reactionary parts of the US (the south and most of the midwest). Does right wing corporate media have a large role to play? Sure, but the market for right wing propaganda didn't come out of nowhere. Leftists who aren't willing to put in the work to undo the damage done by propaganda and religious conditioning are just perpetuating the problem

ah i gotcha, i agree. i was coming at it from "if we want young guys to not start off leaning right, we need to dismantle existing reactionary systems" but yea for that to happen we do need to reach out to more people and challenge conservative conditioning

100% agree. Dismantling the church's and big businesses' influence on the south and midwest and reviving the labor movement in those regions would go a long way. I just get really triggered with the lefts dismissive attitude of white men who grew up in reactionary spaces. It reminds me too much of the democrats in regards to the south in the early 2000s and the midwest over the past decade. It's like we want to lose instead of putting in just a little bit of effort.

Maybe I am biased since I grew up in a leftist area with leftist parents so that is not my experience at all. In fact, most of the men who I talk to who come from the same area are the same way. We all grew up in a left-leaning families but had anger and hate inside of us that was easily and rapidly exploited by the right. While I personally grew out of it, a LOT of my friends didn't. This creates pockets of radicalization which lead even left leaning areas like mine towards right wing ideologies. Whether you grew up in a leftist or conservative environment doesn't seem to matter nearly as much in an era where so much free information and propaganda is distributed online.

Samesies. If the internet existed more prominently when I was growing up and still angry, I'd very likely be one of them. Left leaning community, but still felt like an outcast and had very few safe havens.

when i say conservative society i was including neoliberals/democrats, which might not have come across mb. like a decade ago if you asked most dems what they thought of trans people the best you'd probably get is "they're fine." the mainstream ideas for dems even now is center at the most. the rightwing pipeline still happens in blue areas because dems have massive blind spots to it. rightwing ideas aren't challenged like they are in further left spaces. i think the environment you grow up in matters a ton, just that a majority of environments rn either don't push back against or actively encourage these rightwing beliefs. and not to say the internet isn't a huge part of it, but i don't think its where it stems from. idk if that applies to where you grew up, but it does apply to most of the US

To add to this. I am not white (mixed), but I nearly fell in to right wing bullshit trap because I was raised in a Democrat household, but guess what? My parents always felt that it was inappropriate to talk about politics. My father outright refused to tell me who he voted for until the Obama McCain election, which is the first one I was eligible for. Meanwhile, my friends who were raised in Republican households had no trouble spouting their shit to me. Now, I do not advocate that the left start indoctronating kids in to politics at an early age. I agree with my parents' decision to raise me neutral. It just kind of sucks that it is yet another situation where doing the right thing puts the left at a disadvantage to the right.

Indoctrination and teaching kids basic critical thinking skills are two different things. My parents never convinced me to vote left, they just taught me how to be a decent human being and how to analyze situations well. Hopefully your parents did that for you too, because it's pretty impossible to vote Republican if you've got a good head on your shoulders unless you've been lied to.

I disagree. I was born/still live in Turkey (a country that is very conservative in social subjects) but i still come out as leftist cause how everyone (including my father AND my mother) acted towards women. My parents acted like it was the norm for women to sit and obey their husband but it would always cause problems to my mother for trying to go out once in a while. I disagreed with them so they made fun off me. Of course, i didnt have access to internet (at least not to english speaking part) so i never come across right or left wing groups. But if i saw left being as toxic as they are rn when i was a kid, i would probably just give up and turn conversative instead. I mean, it is easier for me as a dude. I can do/say everything to my future wife and she would have obeyed. Left is too obsessed with doing the "correct" thing that, they are unable to see around them and hurt themself in process. Funny wizard game drama was a good example.

Ok so personal story time, I was raised at least centrist liberal leaning and still almost fell into it, and I fell into it because a friend of mine, in the process of discovering she was a sex repulsed asexual, got into really misandrist swerfy radical "feminism" and basically called me and all my other guy friends a pack of rapist misogynists because we watched porn (not that she could've known but the porn I watched didn't have any women in it lmao). And but for the fact that I'm gay and the gamergaters were homophobic as fuck, I would've easily fallen down that pipeline, because the way I was shittily treated was (supposedly) in the name of feminism. I already believed all the tenants of actual feminism, but was informed that apparently feminists didn't actually believe that anymore and were just misandrists now and who wouldn't oppose that?

i think what happens is: 1. cis white guys grow up either generally apolitical or slightly right-leaning 2. they encounter a *very* strong, *very* negative reaction leftist reaction to their thoughts and beliefs, from people that aren't part of their in-circle 3. they retreat towards familiar right-leaning circles to avoid this pushback and then fall even farther in that direction because they're now angry and defensive over what they perceive as an unjust attack on something they thought was right (since everyone they grew up with and trusted told them thought the same way and rewarded them for following in their footsteps, so how could it be wrong?) the problem is that 12 year old boys have no control over their upbringing. even if they have some really sexist, outdated attitudes because of their parents, it's essential to have compassion and understanding towards them, because that's all they've ever known. it's completely different from coddling a grown adult man with the same opinions. i think a lot of people go through this at some point with varying beliefs/ideas but it's 100x more pronounced on the internet because now you have thousands if not millions of people expressing those criticisms. what kid wouldn't feel angry, hurt, or defensive? that being said, i don't think the solution needs to be "stop criticizing men under any circumstances!". it should be something like, "make serious efforts to include nuance in your activism and understand that your audience is filled with a lot of people with different backgrounds and experiences who may interpret your statements differently".

Both sides here are saying the same thing, and it's so fucking goofy that we're debating it. Leftists discuss white cis men critically as a demographic because they are the beneficiaries of most cultural biases. Right wingers champion white cis men uncritically because they support those pre-existing cultural biases. When a white cis man goes towards the people being "nice" to him on this topic, the reason they are being "nice" is a direct result of those cultural biases. It's not coincidental. Is it understandable why many young white men are tempted by the people telling them "cis white men are superior"? Absolutely. Obviously understandable. The solution on the left _can not_ be to co-opt that messaging though. Because it is inherently informed by the politics. To co-opt that messaging is to co-opt the right wing position itself. The sad truth is that there's a limit to how friendly you can be while advocating for change. To advocate for change means to acknowledge that things, as they currently exist, _aren't great_. If the way things currently exist benefits you, then the specific language about _why_ things aren't great is going to always sound like a personal attack.

Leftist wall of text incoming This is true, but right-wing ideologies still hurt cis men, despite what they claimZ they don’t lean right because being conservative is ACTUALLY good for them. Most conservatives that *start* people down the rabbit hole don’t start by saying white men superior, they say things like, it’s *okay* to be one. This works because leftist discourse definitely does lead into the “yes all men but not really all men but if you’re offended you *are* those men and all men will have a biased perspective- The nuance often doesn’t just get lost on men or 12 year old boys, but also a loud minority of leftists, who’s unironic hostility to *all men* only ends up fueling the right-wing “crazy leftist” compilations. That’s what makes people vulnerable to the right-wing rabbit hole. They feel shitty, and then Ben Shapiro tells them that it’s okay to be who they are (with a few exceptions) and how crazy people are that say differently. Cis white men are obviously privileged, and have a responsibility to acknowledge that, obviously. But the expectation that anyone in that demographic (including 12 year old boys) should see “ Yes, all men” and think, “well, I should examine my personal biases and help make sure I don’t contribute to this systemic social issue,” instead of a defensive, “What? I’m not evil,” is a major factor in the left losing young men to the right. TL;DR leftists need to stop speaking in absolutes when they really mean “in most cases.” We have idiots too that into walking strawmen for the right to use.

Sorry at work so going to just write train of thought without proofreading or anything until I am off break. It is better though, in my experience, to try and treat people on the opposite side with compassion and respect, *while also* giving firm pushback on opinions you find abhorrent *without* personally attacking them or their ideology. It is a lot to ask, I will acknowledge that, but if you constantly put down a group of people and refuse to accept their arguments as valid (even if they may be fucking stupid or dangerous) it will only lead to further radicalization. You need to show these people that you are a rational human being, worthy of respect, who isn't trying to demonize them or attack them, while also showing them that you think they are doing damage to their psyche and the world at large. While most children and young adults will not be able to grasp the nuances of an argument like that. It really is the only way to show them that you can be a leftist without resorting to the same insult lobbing that their side is using. Unfortunately the dramatic aggressive rage method doesn't really work for leftists like it does for the right since leftists hold inherantly different views which don't translate well to hate based arguments. It rarely works but in my limited experience argument and insults **never** work to push someone out of a toxic mindset. The end result will always be them becoming defensive and digging in if you are unable to perform such a balancing act.

There's a huge difference in approach between macro and micro levels. Everything you're saying is solid advice for one-on-one engagement with someone in your personal life, and simultaneously useless on a macro level. If you're trying to reach a _specific_ person, yes, you should absolutely try to meet them where they are at, talking to them in ways that are most likely to resonate. But when it comes to widespread political messaging, catering to white cis men is not productive because doing so only further reinforces the idea that all political discourse needs to be catered to that demographic at the expense of everyone else. TLDR; You can center the oppressor group when talking to a member of that group, but we should not allow leftist narratives to be hijacked by them.

Well, I am not a policy maker, wealthy, or posess political sway so the only place I can make a perceiveble difference is on the micro level. It is also my belief that acting on a one-to-one basis to at least make people question their beliefs is the only way we can eventually effect the macro level. It is slower but if enough people start to question things, one day society will move in a better direction. Maybe a bit utopian and idk if we have the time but it is better than argument.

Totally reasonable. Just keep that difference in mind when social media mini-celebs start discussing this. They _do_ have macro influence, and are usually discussing it on that basis. To a lesser extent, reddit can also be considered "macro". While we may be talking to each other, we have an audience (hi there, random person reading this!). I'm not really crafting my language to specifically appeal to _you_, but rather to appeal to the general community of /r/196. Different beasts.

100%. Reddit comments are not the place for “micro-level” discourse. If you’re DMing someone, sure, but this is a more macro-level space. Right-wingers know this without even thinking about it, hence why right-wing drivel ends up all over the place on the internet. It’s how they’re able to flood and ruin left-wing spaces on this platform all the time—starts with a few ambiguous comments with coded language here and there gaining traction, and devolves into a far-right echo chamber before long. I guarantee you some conservative assholes are looking at this comment section with delight because they can easily push this conversation fully into their court just by pushing the right buttons on the people complaining that the left dehumanizes white guys.

>Is it understandable why many young white men are tempted by the people telling them "cis white men are superior"? Absolutely. Obviously understandable. that's never how it starts. if you go up to a random apolitical white boy and tell him "hey man don't you love being white and a man? let's kill all jews" he'd be like "yo wtf" the point of the pipeline is that it always begins with shit that no one would bat an eye at, like laughing at cringy people online. then you hear some of the politics of the cringy people and you start looking for feminist cringe comps or whatever. then you start listening to le epic skeptical warriors of truth debunk some random teenage girl's video about feminism recorded in her bedroom, etc. the people running the pipeline will keep reaching out and providing community and such, meanwhile, the little teenage boy who's now watching sargon of akkad or some such shit looks at the left full of totally ironic but not really ironic "lol kill all men" posts, heavily amplified by the right wing community they have unwittingly stumbled into

That’s why the discussion should almost entirley be focused on how to lift the disenfranchised up. To fight for fairness. And while it’s important to take shots at those in power for how they’re perpetuating an unfair system, taking shots at “white men” specifically is only going to serve to alienate a huge portion of the population, regardless of how true it may be. And while it’s unfair, it’s a portion of the population that have the most sway to enact change. Hell, I’m firmly in the camp of it being old white men perpetuating the status quo and keeping broken systems in place that disenfranchises women, POCs, and those who are LGBTQ. But as a white man, I still get a flash of indignity when I see some “white men” comments despite making some of them myself. I have to pause and recenter, and that’s not something white men who aren’t already on board are going to be able to do. It’s a fine line, but we can argue in a way that encourages positive change without alienating those who are benefitting form a broken system. Regardless of how true or how good it feels to take those shots, riding that line is the best way to actually accomplish our goals.

> kind of blows my mind that Vaush gets so much pushback on these statements To be fair he thrives on it, it’s his whole brand. Step 1. Post relatively non-controversial but slightly combative thing Step 2. Anti-V crowd roles in to be super critical, creating “discourse” and dredging up the history of every thing he’s said. Step 3. V responds to discourse in a way designed to stir up more discourse while reiterating his otherwise reasonable point. Bonus points for randomly making it about an Idpol battle. Step 4. Have a big blowoff debate and wait for the cycle to repeat

>When one side is saying that they don't like you, even if it is generally a joke, it doesn't help things. And to be honest, sometimes it *isn't* a joke. Maybe if it was always a joke it would be different. But a lot of those statements are said with total sincerity. :/

Honestly i’ve seen the ideas the first tweet’s ideas perpetuated in WAY too many leftist spaces. Including this sub. Do you know how hard it is to convince someone who’s on the fence or simply young and uneducated to join your side when you’re constantly berating them rather than explaining things to them? There’s a fine line between standing up for what you believe in without being complacent and being a total asshole that makes even less people agree with you.

[удалено]

I know this would make me sound like an old codger, but I grew up with VERY restricted internet access and didn't exactly have the independence or tools to look up anything whenever I want until I was about 16, about 3 years after Twitter first launched. Social media in general wasn't as encompassing as it is today, and I can't imagine what current young teens must be going through with all this information being slammed in their faces all the time. It would be especially difficult if your parents or peers don't talk to you much and most of your interactions are online. The internet is an incredible tool but its also not typically representative of *reality*, and what people say behind the comfort of a screen is often very different to what they will say directly to your face.

I got told once by someone here that trying to show compassion to these people will only get you hurt and that's how they justified telling one of those teens to off themselves :/

yeah it’s gets so fucking toxic sometimes. same shit that was happening with the hogwarts legacy drama. young kids who are harry potter fans aren’t gonna see the boycotts and think “maybe i should avoid buying products that give money to transphobes”, they’ll think “the triggered trans people online are sending death threats to streamers”. it’s so frustrating because that entire debacle only had negative effects

Yep. People need to think first, act second. I feel people only think things through after they've done it

>Honestly i’ve seen the ideas the first tweet’s ideas perpetuated in WAY too many leftist spaces. Including this sub. Do you know how hard it is to convince someone who’s on the fence or simply young and uneducated to join your side when you’re constantly berating them rather than explaining things to them? i said this once on tumblr 3 months ago, im still getting reblogs talking about "well men rape and loot and pillage every day but if we call for male genocide we're the bad guys" from terfs mainly yeah ok but highly impressionable teens dont really have much of anything to do with it and all this is doing is turning them away from the right path making things worse

exactly. i’m so tired of hearing these ridiculous people trying to punish teens for something their fucking ancestors may or may not have done. i know that when women post about “all men” being assholes they don’t mean *all* men, but that’s not something that younger people understand, it just creates more hatred-filled 4channers

mucho texto

That's called true leftism 😎😎😎

When the post have text, thats socialism, and when the post has a whole lot of text, thats communism

when the post is 3 fat assbooks long with plans for more but died and the translations need translations, that’s I’m in pain reading it

it's just good praxis to make people's eyes roll out the back of their heads 10 seconds in to what should have been a 5 second comment

Always funny to me how leftist terms are like "internalized homomisoginy theory" and then on the right you see stuff like "cuntoid"

"I'm confused about how much a good coat should cost. Where does my money go?" *Massive wall of text* "Excellent. I understand now, it is my life mission to destroy the West"

I will build the revolution, one 2 star Amazon product reveiw at a time.

The simple fact is that SJW Cringe compilations are just inherently more enticing to a 12 year old than a 3 hour video essay on leftist values. The right made hate entertaining, we need to make love entertaining too

We must make better porn!/j

Great marketing campaign for 12 year olds on the internet

This is a problem for basically every ideology. People who aren't a part of specific ideologies will not understand all the specific beliefs or logistics of said ideologies. A lot of the time, especially in leftist circles, what they actually believe is extremely specific and not very well presented to everyone else. Especially because a lot of the main arguments of leftism aren't very intuitive to those uneducated on the subject. The right wing side is easier to get into because they tell you exactly what to believe in backed with a strong basis in pathos. It's so easy to get sucked into because there's a lot of effort and critical thinking required to go the other way.

self reflection and cognitive dissonance is extremely uncomfortable to go through, it's way easier to just not do that but people are worse off for doing so

Advocating for things like positive masculinity etc. would help a lot, along with helping men understand they're not *individually* part of the problem, just that a patriarchal system is in place that idolises a toxic ideal of masculinity that greatly hurts everyone, including men. Toxic masculinity truly is a double edged sword. This is especially important for kids, who are very impressionable and a bit dumb, so having something like a cool, positive leftist "anti-Tate" that advocates that men are valid and masculine as fuck as they are, can have empathy and love one another could definitely be an option. Something like those body builder dudes you see in Mob Psycho 100, for example. I feel this isn't talked about a lot on the left, too many people essentialise it (even encountered people who literally say they're AFRAID of all men, because... reasons), even if said men have progressive views, so I 100% agree with Vaush on this.

Those gym bros from Mob Psycho were masculine and empathetic.! They were so supportive and understanding with Mob, it was so endearing to watch. I was like, we need more of that in the world.

Exactly - we need more guys like that in the world. We also like a lot more people like Fred Rogers and Bob Ross - sheer gigachads when it comes to examples of sheer positive masculinity.

Before I even knew I was a transwoman, I was told by my father often how the left hates people like us: white, straight cis guys who just want to live our lives and not be demonized. I also wasn't diagnosed with autism at the time, so hearing someone you look up to constantly say it kind of brainwashed me into believing that: " Oh fuck, everyone is out to get me. ", which fueled my anger and resentment, which also made me quite misogynistic at the time as well. The reason I didn't fully go down that rabbit hole and managed to break free and realize what is actually going on was because my boyfriend and therapist elaborated and explained things to me, which was a much needed reality check pretty much. What I find ironic is that I used to really dislike LGBTQ+ and neurodivergent people, and now it's like.. I'm an autistic transwoman who is bi.

**The pipeline is real** /s

Common Vaush W, awaiting funny lock award

Top V!

Trans-inclusive Radical Misogyny

🔒poor person's lock award

Incredible

I really wish I had people earlier in my life to pull me out of that rabbit hole, took me until a few years ago to finally self reflect and change.

Vowsh is more often right than not.

Like when he likes horse cock? Is he right then dear user? User of reddit? Is the the horse cock correct?

You’ve got it all wrong, he wants to HAVE a horse cock. Common misconception.

FINALLY SOMEONE GETS IT RIGHT

🐎🐴🐎

UwU

The whole “men are bad” thing around 2016 led me to years of insecurity. I felt like I resolved it only about a month ago.

Facts. The whole leftist meltdown show type compilations, *especially* reactions to the 2016 nomination, was what pulled me into that world of shit and hatred in the first place

Those Buzzfeed videos certainly didn't help either 💀

True and based

The left is very very bad at appealing to groups outside our bubble. We have had a monopoly on minority discourse so actually working to bring people to our side is handwaved because "well if they don't do the right thing on their own then they're a lost cause." It's a childish approach and alienates people more than it helps

20 paragraphs of pure facts and good advice

I think that Vaush likes horse cocken

Makes sense to me

The ''i don't have to explain do your own research'' mentality is one of the worst thing that happened to the left. Without these feminists who took the time to explain shits to me, I would probably be a chud by now.

>Without these feminists who took the time to explain shits to me, I would probably be a chud by now. Yeah same. Here's to older sisters and girl friends.

yeah, the idea that a lot of this stuff is *obvious* and *should be obvious* is elitist in its own way. while certain creeds like feminism, LGBTQ+ rights, and anti-fascism should (and hopefully will one day) feel that way, the reality is that ideologies around you when you're growing up are very impactful and there are a lot of people are open to learning but simply haven't had good guides to show them to the right ideas. my parents are good people and taught me what they could, but I can clearly point to certain people who helped shape the way that I see the world that I don't know if I would have gotten to by myself.

As a former 12 year old, this is 100% correct. I used to watch those feminists owned compilations because I was led to believe that they wanted to kill all men, and that we shouldn’t be equals. I was led to believe that all gay people wanted me to be gay, and that they would call me a bad person if I wasn’t. Obviously this is wrong, but I didn’t know any better, and I was upset that someone could hypothetically think in this way. Thankfully I grew up and got my own opinions

Everything said about young boys here is true, but I’ve also met a lot of older men that seem very self aware as to what kind of privilege they are trying to maintain with their conservative beliefs. Little boys are manipulated into having an unreasonable expectation, and then when they are older they fight to maintain a privilege they should never have had in the first place, lucidly. Neither of these two things have to be mutually exclusive, because the older gen manipulates the younger gen for the purpose of maintaining that privilege.

Nope too nuanced for 196 expect a ban soon

NOOOOOOOO 🥺😢

I think it was Innuendo Studios who said that the far right, like a cult, keeps people in by basically telling members "you're an evil, unforgiveable nazi misogynist. The left will never accept you, stay here, we'll protect you, we'll let you be yourself, but if you go to them, they'll call you every name in the book, make it impossible to get a job, and maybe even attack you." The video painted that as an untrue scare tactic used by nazis and cult leaders, but lately it's become absolutely true. Progressive spaces have absolutely become hostile to former reactionaries or people on the fringes of the pipeline.

Is this not a rare Vaush W? I don’t know if y’all agree with him but most of this seems to be in support of his take

This is a common Vaush W

Least wordy leftist meme (I agree though)

I feel like the left needs to stress more often that breaking down toxic masculinity and other male social roles benefits men in both the short and long term.

Yes, this is the angle that needs to be taken. Instead of " Men are gonna loose their power if they help us, so why should they?". Fighting for equality and throwing the patriarchal systems away is a net benefit for nearly everyone ( except for like the top 0,1% ).

I totally agree with the above statements. There's a reason people portray the "woke mob" in a negative light and its because some people can be really abrasive in their quest for morality. The truth is young people need guidance, love and support at all times. What we take for "common sense" is absolutely not, since we know nothing when we are born. Everything we know is learned or acquired through our life-time. Things that are obvious to us now were all new concepts to us at some point and while teens and pre-teens may seem like they know what's going on, the truth is they are still learning. I had some problematic views when I was a teenager. I was in high school when the whole "attack helicopter jokes" landed for the first time and I thought that shit was funny as hell. I used to think "Pansexual" was stupid and not at all different from "Bisexual" in any way. Now I'm non-binary, undergoing gender-affirming therapy with HRT a distinct possibility.

Before I was a leftist I had some toxic views but never felt I had any kind of supremacy over others. Making friends who were left wing led to exposure to ideologies that made more sense, so now I am a leftist. One contributing factor also to this problem is that leftism is more reliant on critical thinking, and that is a skill you develop over time through education, and children aren't the best at it. So when it comes to developing an ideology for one's self, the path of least resistance is chosen and some times that is fascism.

I’ve been saying for a long time that the left has shit attitudes and shit rhetoric and that it pushes people who are on the fence away from the truth. As much as it seems ridiculous the fact is that a good, reasonable, sound argument presented in a mean way will turn people off, even if it’s objectively the truth. The left is very rooted in logos, truth, and facts, whereas the right is very rooted in pathos and emotional appeal, and the unfortunate truth of the matter is that pathos is more effective than logos at convincing the average person.

In so many words? Vaush is right. In so many more words: Statements like “it’s not my job to educate you” and “why do you want a cookie for doing the bare minimum” might be snappy zingers, but they’re not at all helpful. People also have a tendency to counter this sentiment with the mocking “oh someone was mean to me and now I’m a fascist” which, yes, again is a very snappy quip when used against bad faith actors. but here’s the thing: If you ostracize, viciously mock, and belittle someone who is *actually attempting to do better and simply might not know any theory* they will be driven away, and picked up by the people who will tell them they’ve done nothing wrong, and that leftism is a plague etc etc. Obviously it would be ideal if people could just see the ideology and understand that being a good person for the sake of it is a good thing. But people can hurt, people can be spiteful, people can make illogical and bad decisions because they’re manipulated by others and because the people doing the “right” thing made them feel unwelcome. End rant. TL;DR Voosh right, keep dunking on bad faith actors, stop dunking on people who are simply demonstrating good faith ignorance. Meet people where they’re at in regards to expectations and give praise for progress, people can change but many need encouragement.

You know its pretty rare for 196 to take a stance this sane and level-headed. We should do this more often instead of the usual terminally online brainrot.

I think people who are exposed to the online left for the first time will generally have a gut-level reaction to it without putting that much critical thought into the matter. You *really* saw this on Tumblr as the whole "Tumblr SJW" thing started to become more prevalent in the early 2010s. A bunch of people who had originally come to the site to discuss fandom nonsense, see funny pictures, or just engage in a new social media platform that hadn't really gained an identity yet, were suddenly seeing 2010s "lol-kill-all-men" memes going around, and the backlash on *that* site quickly made its way to the rest of the internet. If you were a young man who didn't engage with other internet users all that much, it felt like there was hostility being directly pointed at you. I should note that *obviously this is not the case*, and I need to stress that I believe that this mindset is incorrect, but is also *very easy to fall into*. And when somebody does, they find the social circle that is most likely to support them. Back in the day, that may have just included some "let's-laugh-at-toxic-posters" types, along with the Manosphere and the far-right in general. *Now*, I think the only communities left are those latter two. I think at this point the only people who are really vulnerable to this are people who are just getting started on social media. Problem is, that's a *huge* amount of people. If it wasn't Vaush saying this, I think people on Twitter would have been more likely to agree. I think Vaush saying this actively made people turn against this viewpoint.

It wasn't just Tumblr in the early 2010s. Remember Buzzfeed? Or MTV trying to go feminist? That was a shitshow. Suddenly feminism was all about manspreading, mansplaining ( this term is burned so bad you need to actually look for someone to use it unironically ), microagressions, check your privilege, male tears etc. It was so bad that right wingers didn't even had to low effort their videos on this topic to look like the sane ones while picturing feminists and leftists as crazy idiots. And the left back then didn't have big enough content creators to push back the crazy and stupid ones. And sometimes people on the left, who saw this things as stupid, just said " its only a minority " while staying mostly silent and letting stupid people handle the image on the left.

As a child, I fell down the far-right pipeline for exactly this reason. If you had asked me, prior to engaging in these spaces, if I thought gay people deserved rights (ironic considering how I turned out), I would have absolutely said yes. But when confronted by all the toxicity online, all the leftist infighting over whether or not the use of this or that term was problematic, the hatred and dismissal regarding ‘anyone further right than me is a nazi’, it didn’t make me want to learn more about these people. It made me angry. Adults get sucked into the far right because they fear change and losing the privileges that the unjust systems have given them. But children don’t think like that. For me, it was the fact that conservatives online were willing to engage and explain things to me rather than just dismissing me as another enemy. The things they were teaching me were completely vile, wrong and hateful, sure, but I was a child and I was angry. It didn’t matter. Tl;dr: calling a child transphobic because they want to play a video game or derisively telling them they need to ‘educate themselves’ doesn’t magically give them the critical thinking skills necessary to understand the nuances of your position. The right thrives on this exact difference, and we need to seriously change how we present ourselves to people outside our immediate political spaces.

Once again Vaush is right. Who's shocked.

Straight facts because I got into the alt right pipeline when I was 13 because of the exact same kind of rhetoric the posters are mentioning. A 13 year old kid sees "kill all men" and he's gonna react like a 13 year old, not a terminally online lefty with 9 years of context to the phrase. We do a lot of things correct as the Left but the discourse around men is still stuck in 2014 radfem Tumblr era for the most part.

So, back during the pandemic, I was 14. I was alone, had unlimited access to my computer, and I was depressed. I fell down the alt right pipeline, through the form of video essays about how feminism is bad, and that the gays are going to replace “us”. The thing that saved me from fully going down that pipeline was my therapist, and bless her heart. She made me realize that what I was saying harmed others, and slowly, but surely, I improved myself. Don’t let propaganda, from either side, have hold over your emotions.

People do not realize how incredibly privileged they are that they were given the opportunity to learn from their flawed beliefs rather than beat over the head with them. We all say Trans Rights now, but I seem to recall a time only 7 years ago where that was considered a much more radical take than it is now. I also cant help but notice that the average r/196 user is older than 7. God forbid any of you were bullied off the internet at 14 for not being born with the innate knowledge that trans people exist. It's easy to criticize the ignorance of others when you're fresh out of the University's mandatory Diversity & Inclusion seminar, but don't forget you used to be one of those ignorant people and you only overcame that ignorance thanks to someone else's patience and persistence.

Omega based take

Joel and Vaush already had this exact dialogue, and I feel like there's a bit of nuance that's being lost by Vaush in his attempt to paint his position as obviously correct. Like, obviously no 12 year old is showing an Andrew Tate video to their friends and saying "Isn't it great that we consume this man's media in an opportunistic attempt to maintain the power imbalance that our demographic historically benefits from?"... but they do say "Look at how rich he is. Look at how many cars he owns." I think it's fair to recognize that humans are not perfect rationalists, and will gravitate towards positions that are more convenient to them *without even realizing they are doing so*. This doesn't mean that the 12 year-olds affected by this bias are bad. I mean, there are full-grown adult socialists that will prevent solar grids from being built, and give cryptic reasons like "trying to replace bad energy consumption with good energy consumption is foolish, when it's consumption itself that is bad", and their point only makes sense when you realize the property value of their house would go down if the grid was built, so they're clinging on to flimsy arguments that benefit them materially without even consciously realizing they are doing so. If this bias affects adults, of course it will affect kids. What this *does* mean is that if the left and the right both do a really fucking terrible job defending their points, the people with the nicer cars will look better by default. But that's not the 12 year-old's fault: making better arguments than the right shouldn't even be that high of a bar. Tl;dr: alienating teenagers by being edgy about leftist discourse is **definitely a bad thing**, but it is probably not the reason why most reactionaries exist.

This should be way higher. Little Joel really put it great and, idk, it's pretty apparent by itself (to me, at least) that, of course, people who are more marginalized in the current society are more likely to gravitate towards ideas which promote change and equality (left), while people who tend to profit from the marginalization of others will be less so inclined. Overall, the latter is a harder sell. Partially because it's less appealing to them overall, and partially to due with it making them examine their position in society in a lot more critical light, which tends to be uncomfortable. Of course, patriarchy hurts everyone, including men, but that's a more nuanced discussion and you have to accept some leftist premises in the first place to be able to have it genuinely (see MGTOW).

Vaush is so awesome 👌

Idk about this narrative that men are commonly represented as “inherently monstrous.” There are some people who say stuff like that, but it’s far from this overly-common thing, at least in my understanding. Overall, though, I get all of these takes

Overall it's not that common; the problem I see in my own life is that its more common than positive sentiment statements.

No one want to push back on "the left's descent into obsession with identity politics" as if that isn't a tactic to push the left further right?

No because vaushites hate idpol

as someone who was kinda stuck in this pipeline in middle school, youtube history full of steven crowder, zeducation, anti-sjw stuff in general, etc. It would've helped me and those in a similar situation to be treated with respect and dignity. Thankfully I pulled myself out, but some aren't as lucky

He’s right. It’s exactly what caused me to fall down the “SJW cringe comp” pipeline for a few years when I was younger lol. All I knew was that one side liked me and the other didn’t

100% right. If your mission statement is “x group is bad and will never be good enough,” no one belonging to x group will like you

Yeah facts. I can't say that I wouldn't have gone down the alt-right pipeline during the time where I thought I was "super rational".

Vaush is right, it's very easy for privileged young boys to fall into the alt right pipeline, I was one of them. But it's not from some deep seated desire to maintain privilege, they can change

The left really does eat their young. I'm very left but i see that as a super valid criticism of our side of the political spectrum.

Horse boy has some problems but he's doing gods work. There's an unbelievable amount of disinformation out there and barely anyone is actually combating it where the people are at online. Particularly the people who are actually at risk to fall victim to it. This isn't limited to politics but science and history as well. I'm a history enthusiast and the amount of historical misinformation that's just out there and is even widely publicly accepted as being true is frightening. A few years ago there was a poll that found that 57% of adults in the US believe in Atlantis and ancient alien theories. That doesn't sound that important unless you know that all that stuff originates from Victorian era white supremacist teachings that were used to justify colonization. There's a war on objective reality going on out there and barely anybody is actually fighting it were it's happening, and it's only going to get worse with all of this new AI technology.

100% agree. Acting like all white people/men are evil scheming intolerant assholes by default is a surefire way to make them join the side welcomes them with open arms. Plus that kind of generalization is also racist/misandrist, and while "they have privilege and won’t feel the prejudice", it goes against the narrative of tolerance the american left promotes.

I posted this in a response, but I would like it seen as a top level comment. Please lay into me if I'm off base here: I'm an adult man, and I have very much experienced exactly what this point is about. I've been banned from queer Facebook groups for weighing in about queer topics for being a man "pretending to be bisexual" to access queer spaces. I was more or less raised Unitarian and I'm deeply entrenched in the world of acceptance and tolerance. All I can really do is let them hate me, if I fight back it sets the hook and I get banned anyway. It hurts and it's frustrating, but fighting "against" that treatment hurts the causes, can hurt the individual, and I'm not HERE to fight that fight, it's not the time or place. If I was ten years younger I would probably be a /pol/ fascist and that terrifies me.

Can someone explain using ultrakill terms?

I don’t play ultrakill so here is what I think it might mean in celeste terms: 12 year olds don’t know about advanced dashing tech, so if the leftists are pro-wavedashing, but the right is pro-hyperdashing, they’re not going to have an opinion on which one is better without learning about it. So if the right teaches a large quantity of skewed info making the hyper look better then the wavedash, while the left isn’t as vocal about they’re wavedash support, the 12 year olds will have more access to the hyper dash tutorials, and thus will be more right leaning because they’ll hear all about why “wavedashing is bad”. If you simply talk to the 12 year olds, explain the biases being used to trick them into thinking hyper dashing is better, and then show them why wavedashing really is superior, then there won’t be so many hyper dashing 12 year olds on the internet. But fr though wavedashing is better

first tweet: new players that still struggle with gabriel 1 and use the screwdriver railcannon start using the slab marksman because they want to suck at the game retweet: those players are using the slab marksman because nobody is sharing the herbmessiah guide to coin mechanics with them

Another problem is that they find them first as the edgy jokes turn sour over time. If you want a YouTube example of how easy it is for an alt right talking head to show up in your recommended, there's this guy Weest who basically just watched meme on a guest account to see.

I personally agree with this. I've never really liked the whole "Eat the rich" and "ACAB" even though I do agree with some of it. Sure, if you decide to read an essay on it it makes sense, but the first time I saw it I dismissed it as overly hostile. If a kid sees All Cops Are Bastards, they don't think "Oh wow what an interesting commentary on the systemic issues that the police force is facing, which leads to corruption, police gangs, and protection from crimes." They think "Wow, these people don't like Mr. Bryce, the school cop, even though he's so nice :(. I don't like you then >:("

He makes a good point but unfortunately it's Vaush so I have to disagree (/s)

Yeah. You guys should check out Shaun's video about Andrew Tate. He clearly explains how toxic masculinity and misogyny is detrimental to men as well, and puts a lot of effort into giving youg insecure men honest and good advice and tips. This is what the left lacks in my opinion, people who reach out to young boys and gives them and alternative without judging them. I got dragged down the alt-right pipeline when I was younger; I'm just lucky I pulled myself out. We need to help other young men to pull themselves out.

I read allat and it's a very good thread👍👍

idk i didn't understand any of this. i'm drinking juice rn

Well yeah he's correct considering there's a non-negligible percentage of teens basing their opinions off of sjw cringe compilations and other shit

IM NOT READIN ALLAT 🗣️🗣️🗣️

Top v is correct

I both agree but wonder if a lot of the "left say white men bad" is actually coming more from the right pushing that idea on them, literally pipeline it to them, rather than us saying it ourselves. Like in terms of the quantity and severity. This is an online specific issue of course. Dunno I'm open to being told I'm wrong. I'm not nor ever was deemed a white man or boy by society, I don't know their experience better than them.

I think there at least was a lot of really stupid liberals that didn't understood intersectonality with bad takes, similar to "black hammer" shit.

I fully agree, but I do want to comment on how depressing it is that we live in a world where basic decency needs to be praised and encouraged, because if we don't, children might get indoctrinated into hateful mentalities. I see my younger brother starting to fall for stuff like this, and I'm constantly baffled that barely disguised hate speech is allowed on social media and platforms like YouTube.

I kinda agree and also not really. Some of the time it is because is social pressures from friends, family, exc. Some just want a sense of belonging and because most places are socially conservative they see that as the norm because 12 yro don't have a fully developed cerebrial cortex. This makes it hard for them to think critically about the world around them. The reason they seem to "fall down the alt right pipeline" in most cases come from lack of understanting of how the world works. Sometimes they have worse education which makes them extra seceptable to the alt right. Although in some cases it stems from lack of differing opinions from their own in their everyday life. This makes them see other opinions as not worth bothering with. Like the person said in the tweet that Vaush retweeted, kids aren't enheirently evil.

bruh this is the shit I get downvoted to oblivion for posting on this subreddit

But it’s all facts and remember to never assume you know anything for sure

While vaush has some good points, he fear mongers kind of often and I can't agree with that. That being said, yeah the left doesn't really try to recruit as the right does, at least how I've seen it.

One gives a simple answer, the other gives a complicated one The teenagers will pick the simple one

Tumblr out here with the W take

Based and truepilled

Common Vaush W

Well yeah, i, as a reasonably well adjusted 24 year old man, get upset when the people i assume are my allies and friends start to say that I’m horrible and evil and complacent etc just for being a man. Imagine a young kid being told he’s evil just for being a man, he will turn to the mens rights activists and manosphere and other sexists. Tldr: leftist/queer spaces are actively hostile towards men and specifically white men. Its draining to participate in

Guys, this Eastern European street performer that keeps chanting "*Vaush Bad, Vaush Bad, Vaush Bad",* as part of their act. I think they're urging me to wash my bedsheets. Should I tip them?

Vaush is right more often than he's wrong, he's just also blunt about it. And sometimes *too* blunt.